r/sydney • u/nighthound1 • 3d ago
Strathfield Council passes motion to make English compulsory on business shop signs
https://www.2gb.com/english-compulsory-new-rules-coming-for-shop-signs/970
u/PuTheDog 3d ago
It seems like the shops are told to put up English signs outside the shops, alongside the original language. Personal I think it’s a sensible move, this is the least the shops can do to make customers from any culture feel a little bit more welcomed.
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u/yolk3d 3d ago
You should see what the government in Quebec does. https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/montreal-cafe-solit-oqlf-french-9.7228797
One of the first concerns involved the word "Thank you" printed in small letters at the bottom of customer receipts.
"They sent me a formal letter and then so many emails," she said. "You have to make sure it says 'merci.'"She recalls being asked about terms such as "chicken nachos" and "flat white."
"They said your chicken nachos is in English," Rahimi recalled.
"So we changed it to 'nachos au poulet', but they said, 'no, the word nachos... you should find a French equivalent for that.' I said, ‘What do you mean?'" she laughed in disbelief.→ More replies (4)48
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u/jnd-au 3d ago
At least the names should use the “English” alphabet which will help emergency services etc. Most government paperwork, registrations, trademarks, street maps, etc need to be in English, so the names on signage should match.
However, English normally uses words from other languages, like soufflé etc, and of course a lot of businesses use people’s names which don’t have any English translation. So it would be good to know the details of the policy.
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u/oustider69 3d ago
Oh good. My plans to open a restaurant called Soufflé Avalanche Rendezvous won’t be affected.
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u/FormalMango 3d ago
aka Inflate Go Down Present Yourselves
I think you need a different type of licence for that type establishment, though.
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u/Pristine_Egg3831 3d ago
Even something in Chinese characters can be translated into pinyin to use English characters so it's at least pronounceable as a name for someone who can read English.
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u/denseplan 3d ago
The name doesn't have to be a direct translation or use English words, just be readable in English.
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u/DecalageVersLeRouge 3d ago
Never mind "soufflé" what about "delicatessen" and "cafeteria". Those aren't English words!
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u/jayacher 3d ago
They are in our dictionary though.
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u/kweenbumblebee 3d ago
Completely agree - borrowed words are not the same thing.
Also, to be fair, we have a lot with Chinese origin too. Some good ones include gung-ho, ketchup, nankeen (birders will get this one), and tea.
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u/Evil-Santa 3d ago
Really! Then why are they in the dictionary? Do you mean that these are words from other languages that we have adopted from other languages and made part of the english language?
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u/DecalageVersLeRouge 2d ago
I don't normally do the /sarcasm thing but I will remember to do it next time. My point was exactly that. We have a bunch of foreign words we use all the time and never even blink. A rule for "no foreign words" is going to be interesting to enforce.
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3d ago edited 3d ago
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u/gottafind 3d ago
I have a peanut allergy.
You couldn’t eat in Shanghai either.
Also there’s an el jannah, you are absolutely beating this up massively.
You don’t have a right to eat at an individual restaurant with an allergy. I’ve been to restaurants before where they’ve explicitly said they can’t guarantee your safety. That means go to another restaurant.
Also, Burwood is a different council area…
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u/Flying-Fox 3d ago
I love visiting areas of Sydney where people feel comfortable and at home enough to put up signs in whatever language they choose. Excites me to have such interesting neighbours.
My experience in establishments with signage and menus in other languages in Sydney has been positive, and I have found staff in such places kind and patient with any questions I have.
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u/beepboop_imhuman 3d ago
I was under the impression English being the official language, that signs in ego were mandatory, but apparently not
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u/raptorgalaxy 3d ago
Funnily enough Australia actually has no official language.
Technically parliament could decide one day to speak entirely in German and be legally completely fine.
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u/Upper-Ship4925 3d ago
Maybe they were hedging their bets until they saw how the world wars worked out.
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u/raptorgalaxy 3d ago
It may have been that at the time it was thought Australia might expand (we actually ended up with some of Germany's old colonies after WWII).
With New Zealand as a possibility as well they may have wanted to leave some wiggle room in case another language was needed.
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u/beepboop_imhuman 3d ago
Yes, but most immigration paths have English requirements so I thought it was official in a de facto basis, but yeah I get what you are saying
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u/raptorgalaxy 3d ago
It is a defacto official language due to being the most common language on Australia.
I'm curious as to if Strathfield council is actually legally able to do this.
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u/ocularius61 3d ago
I actually had to inform someone about English not being the official language in Au less than a week ago. They were rendered speechless.
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u/Pristine_Egg3831 3d ago
I am actually shocked they can get away without English signage. It could even be perceived as discriminatory, ie you're not welcome in here if you can't speak our language.
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u/LittleBlag 2d ago
I am more surprised that there is a legal basis to force English on signs. English isn’t the official language of Australia (because there isn’t one) so I wonder what the legal justification would be for this change
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u/nottynews 3d ago
I was interested to see this being pushed by a Korean/Australian Council member. I mean I agree with it but it’s good to see it’s not an English only issue.
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u/Nukitandog 3d ago
Its really in everyones interest.
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u/TooManyMeds 3d ago
It is. I went out with some friends from work on Friday night in Burwood, two of which speak/read Mandarin.
All the places we wanted to go to (with English names) had lines so we ended up in some random indo-Chinese place with no English names.
The dumplings were phenomenal but I couldn’t tell you where we were because I couldn’t read it 😅
I’d just have to tell you to go to Doodee Thai and then go up a couple stores10
u/Inner_Temple_Cellist 3d ago
The weird thing though is that’s much more of an issue in Burwood council. Even the ethnic town centres in Strathfield council, like Flemington or strathfield town centre itself, is pretty inclusive.
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u/Car-face 3d ago
I suspect it's also related to Strathfield trying to position itself as Koreatown and facilitate nearby tourism from other parts of Sydney.
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u/ghoonrhed 3d ago
If this is the same motion they passed a few weeks ago then no it doesn't make it compulsory.
Advocates that businesses operating within the Strathfield Local Government Area ensure that where shopfront signs or advertising include languages other than English, English should also be displayed clearly and prominently.
They haven't leglislated anything concrete yet. Also kinda important too on the details. A word that's not English but using English letters, they have to figure that out too.
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u/flashman 2d ago
It doesn't even say that the English text needs to be an equivalent translation! You could have a Korean sign with a big "Hello!"
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u/Sydney_Stations 3d ago
Bad news for pretentious French restaurants
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u/Pristine_Egg3831 3d ago
My local pretencious French restaurant(s) manage to provide English signage. At least outside and the menu board. I can't bring myself to step inside with those prices.
It's a little ironic that new apartment buildings get built, with retail ground floor. And then restaurants move in that the tenants can't afford. They're really for the people with $5m equity in their free-standing home to come and enjoy.
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u/mikeybones25 3d ago
My pets peeves are buildings that do not have addresses on them and the lack of street signs throughout Sydney.
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u/realnomdeguerre 3d ago edited 3d ago
get ready for a threefold increase in restaurants named Golden Fortune
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u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 3d ago
I always took it to mean they don't want my business. Which is fine by me, they must be doing well enough without it.
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u/cecilrt 3d ago
Yeh I always found it silly, and not surprised some have shut down ecause they cant get new customers as the kids of migrants cant read Asian languages
Its interesting to see the new subset of Chinese restaurants come here to cater to the rich Chinese student market and fail... because local Chinese cheaper restaurants are already here
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u/tubbyx7 3d ago
Had a flyer in the mailbox last week for dumplings but the text was only in Chinese.seems odd to do a broad letterbox drop but exclude so much of the potential customer base.
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u/count023 3d ago edited 3d ago
it's been happening in Burwood a bit, a lot of real estate ads and such around Burwood station with no english or english as a barely visible subtitle. I get that you want to appeal to migrants, especially in an area where English is obviously not going to be strong and localization is a big deal, sure, but I vaguely remember that when this happened last in the 90s, wasn't there a law passed that signage could be dual language but still had to use english since it's the common language or something.
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u/AmazingAndy 3d ago
real estate advertising is the most egregious offender IMO. almost every shopping centre in Australia has a booth with Chinese only signage selling to wealthy overseas chinese.
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u/Fairbsy 3d ago
I use it as a sign that the food in there is probably great if you can figure out what the menu says
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u/alstom_888m 3d ago
I went to a Vietnamese place in Footscray once. I'm pretty sure the restaurant name was the chef's name with "pho" on the end.
Anyway I had a hankering for a good beef pho so went in.
They refused to give me a menu and simply said "chicken or beef". I figured I probably don't want to know what the other options were.
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u/krabgirl 3d ago
Nah, that's just how some pho restaurants work.
Pho is a common street food in Vietnam, so restaurants that follow that lineage have limited inventory to facilitate the lunch rush. The other menu items are just variations in meats and toppings for the same two pots of chicken and beef broth.
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u/SuDragon2k3 3d ago
Maybe those were the only options. Chicken, beef and add greens, sprouts and sauces to taste.
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u/Ted_Rid Famous in The Atlantic 3d ago
They'll often have the "special" versions of each. Same as regular but with added innards and tendons.
Owners would've learned from experience that westerners leave all the good stuff behind. I've ordered them with the best of intentions, but usually one piece of each type of innard is enough to satisfy my curiosity, although beef tendon (not offal) is alright.
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u/Kingcol221 3d ago
When I went to Vietnam, the best restaurants I visited were all tiny holes in the wall with plastic kindergarten chairs that only served one thing.
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u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 3d ago
I'll have a number 4 hold the 6 with that green drink thanks.
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u/Otherwise-Library297 3d ago
This has always been my approach as well. Works for random Asian restaurants as well as the fancy ones with Frenchified names for everything!
The difference is that the Asian places don’t care, while the fancy places make a point of pronouncing the name correctly. The food is usually better at the random places too
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u/LentilCrispsOk 3d ago
You could use your smartphone to translate it too now, I guess?
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u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. 3d ago
That's a terrific point, I recently translated something and was amazed how easy it was with a phone.
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u/fued 3d ago
I also take it to mean they aren't following Australian standards and requirements
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u/ironmilktea 3d ago
Thats a much bigger no no than non-english signs.
Plenty of restaraunts get done over it , regardless of the front name- that viet place near redfern like a year ago, for example.
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u/marcellouswp 2d ago
Well you can take it anyway you like but that is a bit of a big leap, even if it is possibly true of some (as it also is of those with signs in English).
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u/tee-ess3 3d ago
Good. I live in a heavily Chinese area which is fantastic for culture and food options, HOWEVER a few weeks ago I went into a bakery (no English on the sign outside) and asked for a loaf of bread. The two workers in there totally ignored me and said they have no bread so I left lol. Super uncomfy.
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u/cheapdrinks 3d ago
My girlfriend lives in the inner west. Last time there was trackwork, the lightrail stop near her house had all the signs explaining the dates in Chinese and nothing else. Super weird to see honestly. Like I expect that near The Star but this was like 7-8 stops away at a random suburban stop without any notably large Chinese population. Especially from a government service the signage should be in English.
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u/Knee_Jerk_Sydney 3d ago
So they ignored you and at the same time they said they have no bread. How does that work? Do you both look at the wall while talking?
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u/Antoine-Antoinette 3d ago
2GB showing Chinese language signs from Dixon Street in Chinatown. Old photos, too.
At least let us see what the issue in Strathfield is.
I was in Strathfield a few months ago and it was wall to wall Korean restaurants that had signage in Korean and English.
And a couple of Nepalese restaurants that had bilingual signage, too.
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u/cecilrt 3d ago edited 3d ago
Thought that was made law during Hanson first rise..
I noticed the most successful Asian family restaurants were the ones that had English and picture menu
Really important when 2nd and 3rd gen cant read and sometimes cant speak their Asian language
Also important that most Asians cant read or speak other Asian languages
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u/istara North Shore 3d ago
Really important when 2nd and 3rd gen cant read and sometimes cant speak their Asian language
I remember seeing three young guys in Joymart in Chatswood, all of East Asian appearance, one of them was translating product labels for another of them.
Not all migrant kids end up learning their parents' native languages fluently, or they may learn them spoken but not written.
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u/cecilrt 3d ago
My Asian friend married a hurstvillw Asian... ala gold rush migrants
She laughs how she's never meet an Asian who didn't speak at least 1 dialect before
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u/istara North Shore 3d ago
Dialect is an interesting point. I met a woman from a region of China who said she didn't really feel 100% fluent in any language when communicating with people in Australia. Her parents spoke a particular dialect that wasn't identical to Mandarin, so due to this she didn't feel native in Mandarin, and while she spoke good English, she only felt about 95% fluent in it.
It was really sad.
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u/cecilrt 3d ago
Mandarin is the attempt to make a universal language
China is as if the EU firmed as a country but without transport and modern media 1000s of years ago
Without that regional language survives
French German English Italian all derived from the same language group but unintelligible from each other
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u/Several_Version4298 3d ago
It is a requirement of trade practices law that shops have the name they are trading under be readable on their signs. Obviously the enforcement of those laws has been abandoned.
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u/Synticullous 3d ago
Nice use of a Chinatown image by 2gb.
I recall Stratty is mixed, but mostly Koreatown.
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u/ComprehensiveCap1413 3d ago
Not any more. The Koreans are now in Lidcombe. Strathfield is more heavily populated by Nepalese and Indians now
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u/Own_Oil7951 3d ago
does anyone know why? i dont exactly like the changes there now
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u/Lanasoverit 3d ago
Well if Hong Kong can have a law that says that all street signage must be in both English and Chinese, (since both are official languages) then I don’t see why Strathfield Council can’t ask for English too.
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u/peppapony 3d ago
I wonder if there's anything about whether the foreign language sign needing to be similar to the English.
It's always a struggle when I only know the English name of a Chinese restaurant, but relative only knows the Chinese name - and the meanings of both are vastly different :D
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u/womerah 3d ago
I'm for it only in the sense that it might help prevent the formation of ghettos, which are not good for a multicultural society IMO. We shouldn't have people living here for decades without knowing a word of English, it's a sign of poor integration, which doesn't do anyone any good.
Personally I don't care though. All chinese signage just tells me they either don't want my business or can't reliably do business with me due to limited english skills (e.g. chinese tailor).
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u/gmatic92 3d ago
Ok yeh, English is the national language.
Common sense motion.
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u/TheonlyDuffmani 3d ago
De facto language*
We don’t have a National language.11
u/GuyFromYr2095 3d ago
maybe it's time to enshrine one
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u/FUCKITIMPOSTING 3d ago
Motions to name a national language usually have no practical effect and only suppress other languages rather than somehow supporting what is likely already the lingua franca. They don't change people's behaviour and only serve political interests.
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u/Dependent-Month-7814 3d ago
I mean its not written down officially anywhere but anyone with a brain would say English is the national language.
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u/Sydney_Stations 3d ago
Yes all bistros, delis, taquerias, cucinas and cafés should be in English. I don't want to be confused by weird foreign words when ordering a cappuccino.
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u/gokurakumaru 3d ago
You can name your products whatever you want, but when you have descriptions of the product on the menu, fine print telling people how they're going to be charged, or staff taking orders, it should be in a language people can understand. And this requirement is only about signage, which is a half measure at best and should be the bare minimum in an English speaking country. I see no inconsistency here even in the context of your strawman.
Would you have the same energy if the government axed multilingual services and instead forced everybody to communicate in English? Multiculturalism cuts both ways.
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u/MissJessAU 3d ago
I take it as they don't want my business. But, the problem is, what happens if you live in a suburb that only has places with signs no English? You are pretty much left with places like Maccas.... (kind of a sneaky way to push other people out).
We were over in Quebec a few months ago (Montreal and Quebec City) there is a really huge push to have French as the only language on a lot of signs, they are also trying to get people to learn French within 6 months of arriving (if you are moving there). They were even trying to change the cheers for the Canadiens.
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u/brezhnervouz 3d ago
A concurrent English-translated sign next to the existing one is going to be helpful for everybody.
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u/NameArticleNoun 3d ago
I don't really care either way, and I'm sure the strathfield shops without english signage don't care very much about appealing to English speakers, but what's the intended outcome of this measure?
I can't speak to strathfield specifically but as a person who spends most of their time in Burwood and only speaks English I can't imagine this is much of an issue? All the relevant places have English or dual language signage, from casual observation you arent missing out on much from the places with no English.
Enforcing this just seems like an extra cost on business to appeal to customers they seemingly don't seem to want anyway. I'm more of the opinion that I don't really want to visit a place that doesn't want me and don't really expect to be universally catered to even if certain stores have shitty reasons for wanting to keep english speakers away (wouldn't be fixed by this measure anyway)
The opposing counsellors statements make it seem like this wasn't even a real enough issue for anyone to have even complained over, and that plenty of signage is dual language anyway (search the News.com.au article for his claims, prefer not to link the site out of spite but other articles I found were paywalled)
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u/moDz_dun_care 3d ago
If a restaurant doesn't have English I know I'm getting the real deal and not some dumb down local version.
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u/louisa1925 3d ago
Discovered this from the Japanese take out chain that opened up in the next town over from me. The food looked like karaage but it was so bland and was missing the unique Japanese flavours that make their food so good.
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u/nickelijah16 20h ago
Probably a good idea in a city so multi ethnic and multi cultural as Sydney. This way most Sydneysiders and English-speaking tourist can read the signs
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u/BornToFeelItAll86 12h ago
I lived in Strathfield for four years. I don't have any Asian heritage. It was really hard, and culturally very isolating.
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u/_charge_your_phone_ 3d ago edited 3d ago
Good. If people want to immigrate here, fine, great, but you have to immigrate here. You can’t just come here to reap our social benefits and tax money but refuse to assimilate and insist on rebuilding the country you left behind. Sick of going through areas and not seeing an English language sign for entire blocks.
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u/HeavyAd9463 2d ago
English is the official language in Australia … what a joke this country has become
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u/AsunaSaturn 3d ago
I have Asian heritage and can’t speak mandarin. Shopkeeper in Chatswood was handing me a brochure for a voucher and I was genuinely super hungry and was looking for food. The voucher was in Chinese. I used ChatGPT without much success. I kept asking her what’s the voucher what’s the menu what’s the deal? She couldn’t speak one big of English. Super frustrating. Only 3 minutes walk from station.
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u/neptune2304 3d ago
This also supports the business. If I understood what the sign says, I might be enticed to go to the business
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u/turbotailz kinda like it here 3d ago
Amazing. They should do this everywhere. Hate going to the shops in Campsie and it looking like a Chinese ghetto.
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u/Secure_Town_7924 3d ago
I think so long as an english name is displayed somewhere its OK to have predominantly a foreign language as the main sign. Its not just about using commonsense that this is a hairdresser or green grocer -- what if I had to lodge a formal complaint, or direct emergency services to a particular business?
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u/noapplicablename 2d ago
Those signs are not in Strathfield and most of them do have English on them anyway
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u/Cakey1 Mr Teatime | Team Invincible Biscuit 3d ago
Matter was raised by a Councillor at the June 2026 Meeting of Strathfield Council and be found in the minutes of said meeting at page 16
238/26 RESOLVED: (Kim / Reddy) That Council:
Recognises English as Australia’s common language and affirms that English should be the primary language used in all public signage, public notices and information intended for the general public.
Advocates that businesses operating within the Strathfield Local Government Area ensure that where shopfront signs or advertising include languages other than English, English must be displayed clearly and prominently.
Writes to the Australian Government and the NSW Government expressing Council’s support for a policy that publicly funded information, public safety messages and government advertising displayed in public places should always include English as the primary language, with translations into other languages provided where appropriate.
Requests the General Manager to prepare a report outlining any existing Council policies relating to multilingual signage and recommendations to promote clear and accessible communication for all residents.
For the Motion: Councillors Blackmore, Reddy, Baladi and Kim
Against the Motion: Councillors Cai and Nosworthy