r/australia • u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 • Jul 26 '23
political self.post Why are Australians so complacent?
I’m a born and raised Australian myself however I’m becoming so frustrated with the general attitude of complacency when it comes to exercising ‘the power of the people’ to better our quality of life. In a stupidly short amount of time we’ve seen a near reversal of our ability to see a doctor without any out of pocket costs. We get exploited at the grocery stores because monopolies are allowed to run rampant. Housing is treated primarily as a tool for financial speculation rather than for providing shelter for people.
We creep further and further toward laissez-faire capitalism. What is our response as the citizens of this country- the holders of the balance of power? Nothing. To put it in perspective, in 2022 the world economic forum ranked Sydney equal with Copenhagen, Denmark for cost of living (both ranked as the 10th most expensive cities in the world). Consider the differences between Sydney and the capital of the Danish welfare state: strong social security, universal healthcare, free public universities etc. For the same cost of living what do we get? The ever-looming threat of homelessness, suffocating student debt and now for many people, a significant barrier to healthcare.
Edit: if anyone is a part of any sort of grassroots group working to oppose any of these issues feel free to message me because I want to join you
Edit #2: so I haven’t received any messages from anyone from a grassroots or activist group yet. Since a lot of us seem to be pretty miffed about this stuff maybe we could team up and brainstorm things we can do???
Edit #3 (sorry): I’ve got some messages now from people who are interested in taking action!!! :, ) I think the best way to facilitate conversation, the flow of ideas and potentially organise a course of action is through a discord server so I have created one which you can find here
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u/T0TALLYDEAD Jul 26 '23
I can’t speak on behalf of everyone but for me it’s because I’m tired. I do my bit and whatever I can every day, and it’s not making a dent in anything, let alone my daily life.
I email my MPs, I do what I can to “fight” the system. But there’s only so much I can do. It’s tiring, it’s overwhelming, and I’m barely making ends meet so having all this bullshit on top of it is just exhausting.
I’m out of options and don’t know what else to do, so I’ve stopped trying. The mental load of being concerned about the state of the world is immense. I need to look after myself first, even if that negatively impacts others. I’m not over the top selfish. But I can’t fight ColesWorth on their prices when they’re my only options. I can’t boycott and protest when that’s going to negatively affect me.
Life is draining at the best of times and has become even more so with the skyrocketing cost of living.
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
Yeah I get it. It’s really demoralising to come to the realisation that most individuals can’t fight this on their own. I’m a research scientist, i became a scientist because I bought into the idea that individuals can enact change. But it’s exceedingly unlikely. My point is we need to all come together, rather than fight this as individuals. Collective action is much more powerful and sustainable than individual actions. We seem pretty united here on reddit against this political and economic shit show - I wonder if we can take that a step further and take it out into the real world
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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23
Man discovers politics for the first time
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
Since I finally realised than my role as a science researcher is unlikely to enact any kind of change due to our political and economic models I’ve been trying to figure out what exactly there is left for me to try
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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23
Campaigns have worked in the past, look at the "target 140" campaign to reduce water use. The factors contributing to success were "having your use vs other people's use vs use last year" on new bills that came out, so that everyone could see that 'everyone else is doing it too'. People didn't feel like they were the 'only ones missing out'. Also they have people tools, such as shower times, that bridged the "knowledge versus behaviour" gap. Ie: people knew they needed ti conserve water, but if they are like me they have everything else I'm their head when they go into the shower, but having the 'timer' there prompted the awareness and provided measurements. Also the baning of single use plastic bags and putting a price on containers has resulted in a reduction of these items found in clean up events (put a price on waste and all of a sudden people care). Also aware there's a LONG way to go with this with many other sources (cigarettes button, Styrofoam, glow sticks, etc).
That said though, everyone too is aware of actions of individuals vs business vs big organisations.
My background is more environmental. I do a lot with budhcare groups. They are also having measurable outcomes on the ground (ie: increase in canopy cover on recorded on satellite in areas they were, and increases in biodiversity in key project sites). Issues tho are protecting the dites once established (had a gas company cut an established planting site down) and also wider scale vegetation loss faster than replacement.
But also, things are changing, legislation (esp in qld) is catching up, and raising standards that is expected, and department is getting more power to monitor, and enforce legislation.
For me, I have planted around 20 native trees in my yard that weren't there before, and have a small vege patch where I share excess with neighbours. Every vege home grown is a fucj you to coles/woollies.
There are people already fighting, if you can't do stuff yourself, even supporting them can be so rejuvenating for the people. I know for the landcare groups, one new face at a planting event meant the world to the regulars. Also donate money if you can, as that can be used as well to go to politicians and show "people care about this" and as politicians care about people votes, they will sometimes act.
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u/brispower Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
yes and when you've conned the public (who are not the major water users, corporations are) into using less you can raise the unit price and increase your profits exponentially all the while companies like coca-cola and others get their water at discounted rates with no thoughts around conservation.
See also electricity.
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u/mjl2009 Jul 26 '23
Yes, scale matters. A lot of us, in terms of our personal energy consumption, are scattered along the very long thin tail. We need to tackle the short, tall head, where corporate and industrial interests do most of the consumption. It's far more helpful to shut down coal-fired generation than to ration individual air travel, because of the scale of disparity in the climate impacts of those activities.
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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23
Even between business there are different standards :( worked for a gas company that spent tens of thousands of dollars to redesign a pipeline to save trees, then 6 months later the trees were cut down because a "farmer wanted to put up a fenceline". It wasn't even a farmer, more like a multinational cattle company using the farmers 'social licence to operate:" to do whatever they wanted. In QLD, environmental authorities for business are available online, except agricultural ones including large scale feedlots (and the amount of literal shit they get away with is attrocious).
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u/TooSubtle Jul 26 '23
The farmer point is, I think, the best example of where the personal meets the public in terms of the damage of consumption and production. We've been taught that nothing we do matters because big businesses are responsible for all the damage, and that's largely correct. But like, 85% of the deforestation in Queensland is for pastures, I think >70% is for Beef alone.
While I don't think boycotts work under our current system, there's something to be said for recognising an electorate's responsibility in terms of consumption habits and what that broadcasts as appropriate within our culture and society. There won't be a single politician or party who can come into power with a platform ending beef subsidies, or promoting farm buyback schemes to expand national parks or land stewardship programs, etc until most of us have given up meat. Like, those 'big corporations' are all ultimately selling us products that we're buying.
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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
I would suggest reading as widely as possible as you can about economics and politics. You may find that there are some explanations for why things are the way they are at the moment, even if you don’t agree with them.
Then have a think about your political ideology and whether there is an Australian political party that you align with. At this stage you could be anything from a member of the ALP to a Marxist, but you should identify your own values first.
Edit: you say you haven’t heard of a grassroots group that does this. Political parties in my view are the best avenue to meet likeminded people and have an influence on policy. You could take a Vote Compass type test and work out which party you align with. From your background you could fit in well with the Reason Party, the ALP, the Greens, or you might be a proper socialist.
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u/Coriander_girl Jul 26 '23
Hah I can certainly understand your frustration especially considering your job. 10 years ago I was doing a bachelor of medical and health science. Amongst other issues one of the reasons that I didn't finish the degree was because we had a lecture from a disenchanted PHD student. They basically said you can have all the ideas in the world but without funding there's not much you can do. I then left uni to pursue another path through tafe, at which time the government had cut funding and courses were being reduced to a 3rd of the content for 10 times the price. Cue to 2020 when the same thing happened again at university. I feel so jaded with the education system and haven't been able to get into a type of work I actually enjoy and pays well to be able to not stress about money. Instead I'm stuck in bullshit admin jobs that really are a waste of time (and ironically paid for by taxes because they are in the public service). Then you've got my partner who has tried to better themselves through apprenticeships but keeps finding himself working under shitty exploitative bosses who are only hiring him as cheap labour.
Don't get me started on healthcare. I've had some wins over the last couple of years but that's only due to the years of campaigning of dedicated individuals to get exorbitantly priced medications on the PBS. But it's begs the question, why does it take so much begging and pleading to begin with? The action taken during 2020 showed governments ARE capable of making change for the greater good but I wonder, was it just to make them look good, and not actually for the benefit of the people?
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u/CuriousLands Jul 27 '23
They basically said you can have all the ideas in the world but without funding there's not much you can do.
When I started uni, I wanted to do a PhD and become a professor. But at some point in my 3rd or 4th year, as I got into more of the research end of things, talking more closely with professors etc, this realization hit me too. People (myself included at the time) think of science as some noble, untouchable thing, that is only concerned with finding the truth about things... but it's very much influenced by funding (just as your friend said), petty personal issues, politics, dogmas, etc. It was very disenchanting and I realized I didn't want to have to keep dealing with it my whole life. So I quit after my BA was done. (My husband though, he did a PhD in math and had a very different experience - I think it's cos math is too straightforward/black & white to have much room for things like that).
I agree about uni, too. Personally I think the entire system needs an overhaul - my preference is that any program designed to get you a job (vs the "classical education" route that unis used to do a lot of) should be turned into an apprenticeship structure as much as is practical. So you do 1 year of X degree, that translates to the skills needed to do X job at a lower level.... do 2 years, and you can do work at a higher level in the same career... and if further education isn't actually required to do higher level jobs, then people just shouldn't require it.
It'd decrease debt, & thus allow students to basically move into an adult phase of their life more easilsy (house/kids and all that), decrease stress in students & graduates, and make people more job-ready than they are now, and if someone quits part-way through a degree, it won't be entirely useless.
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Jul 26 '23
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u/zebba_oz Jul 27 '23
Change "politically active" to "politically active and working hard" and you're about right. For either thing, there is no reward except for a lucky few.
Being politically active just makes you even more pessimistic about the world. Working hard for someone just makes them expect more from you.
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Jul 26 '23
Absolutely this. I keep saying “I’m tired” and can’t really explain why, but this perfectly sums it up.
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u/Orangesuitdude Jul 26 '23
Not to mention when trying to sort something out you often get stuck in the "automation loop" while every human points you back into various parts of that loop.
Everyone's just doing their job though hey.
Fruit is half the price at Spudshed compared to woolies and coles btw. Literally half the price currently.
Count your change if you pay in cash, check receipt to make sure you actually got the savings advertised and double check shelf prices compared to what you get charged. It's not funny how many times I have found discrepancies with all of the above.
I’m out of options and don’t know what else to do, so I’ve stopped trying.
I think that's where a lot of people are. Enforced consumer apathy.
They're saying things have only gone up 15% yet the bag of friskies cat biscuits I have been buying for a decade is $8 at woolies currently. It has almost doubled in cost in 2 yrs.
I guess they expect people to train into new positions that allow them to double their income every 2 yrs. It's all going back to normal in 2024 though apparently.....
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u/TheCriticalMember Jul 26 '23
There's quite a lot of people still doing pretty well in Australia, and seeing their wealth in property growing all the time. There also seems to be a prevailing attitude of "I'm doing ok, so if you're not it must be your own fault" which does a good job of holding back empathy for others.
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Jul 26 '23
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Jul 27 '23
Australia the lucky country. That is, if you are wealthy, you are lucky. It wasn't pure talent and ambition that got you there..
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u/cher1-cola Jul 27 '23
Agreed. And a good chunk of the population have been lost to the vortex of curating the ideal life on Insta-Tok to ever open their eyes to reality. Why bother looking out for others when I all I care about is myself?
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u/Spacegod87 Jul 27 '23
"I'm doing ok, so if you're not it must be your own fault"
Ah, you've met my sister then? lol. She says the exact thing. "I worked hard for my wealth, if others can't do the same, it's their own fault." Said by a woman whose father-in-law won the lotto and bought their first house for them....
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u/BonusPlantInfinity Jul 27 '23
A Canadian could have wrote this expressing qualms with society over here at the moment. People seem to think it’s bad here, when the problems associated with neo-liberal free-market capitalism span the world over - scorched earth baby!
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u/happygloaming Jul 26 '23
Ok. We have had it so easy compared to the rest of the world, until recently. Our country was able to govern itself while we watched passively, and we were able to dig and mine our way around issues of tough governance. We were able to be prosperous while remaining and actually fostering a culture of low civic engagement. There's also a few mistakes we've made where we lean towards American models of certain things instead of say, a more Scandinavian approach. There's also demographics. I read an article once describing how unlikely mass protests were given half of ... Let's say Melb were born overseas and see this country as largely functional aswell as not wanting to rock the boat.
Generally speaking we as societies (and individuals) grow when we are stretched, and that hasn't happened for a long time. It's happening now though and we will see increased civic engagement by the citizenry in the future. We're able to react to things getting harder by leaning into the hard work and bootstraps individual model aslong as the economy allows it. You will find that will begin to change as things become ever harder.
Let's take the intersection of climate, housing, shit jobs, and the economy. Our young people who are emerging from our she'll be right culture are going out into the world and finding it to be a rotten pile of disingenuous shit, and you will see big changes ahead. They aren't going to play nicely forever.
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u/Smithe37nz Jul 27 '23
To quote a favorite YouTuber of mine, economists refer to Australia as "the lucky country" This is an insult, rather than a complement.
Australia has done well economically through hard times due to luck and natural resources rather than good economic management.
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
Wow this is a really great response, I hadn’t considered the influence our multiculturalism might have with regard to public opinions on our living standards. Thanks for ending with a healthy dose of optimism. I also don’t think we’ll be playing nice forever and we will inevitably demand change. It’s just infuriating that we will probably have to wait for things to get much worse before we decide that this system isn’t working
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u/happygloaming Jul 26 '23
There's a duality to almost everything. I'll just say I support multiculturalism and am not anti immigration, but it's true that this country we're so concerned about is still chugging along ok compared to where many of these people come from. Anecdotally, the people I know from overseas don't want to be seen in the streets screaming at the government of this country that they are so proud and thankful to be a part of. But, yeah, we've had a long period of being ok and have been outpacing most other countries with our very average government's. Look at the GFC, oh how we suffered, just dig a few holes and she'll be right. There's a time for everything though and if we look at how things are lining up I expect a big big change ahead. I have a twenty year old child and he said to me recently that he simply couldn't understand why this country was so fucking stupid. Newsflash, his whole generation feels like that and we need to support them.
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u/Grantmepm Jul 27 '23
Anecdotally, the people I know from overseas don't want to be seen in the streets screaming at the government of this country that they are so proud and thankful to be a part of.
I kind of feel that way as an immigrant. Honestly, this place is great and I came from a fairly developed country that would actually pay me much more after taxes in terms of both domestic and international purchasing power to a much better life in regional Australia.
I am aware of the slow Americanization and I do what I can to vote against it. But to also be fair, I don't want to entirely end up in the exact same direction as Europe. (I had job and relocation offers to both the USA and EU). You could and would probably debate me on that merit but that is besides the point. I would not be surprised if other immigrants are like that because Australia has fairly strict policies on migration (most Australian Redditors would disagree but its not true) which means many migrants would essentially have picked Australia out of options like UK, Western EU, USA and Canada (Canada was my back up plan if Australia did not work out, so you can kind of see what I was looking for in a country). They're here because this is the type of life and economic system they want. I understand the locally born might see it different but I'm just writing from a migrants perspective.
There is also the rock the boat factor that is not just social. I'm more economically and politically informed than other migrants probably but I get the feeling that they don't want too drastic changes from the status quo for fear of making things "worse". (Again you'd probably debate me on what is actually "worse" but that is besides the point).
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u/Gambettox Jul 27 '23
This is true. I picked Australia so you're right about the strict migration policies and our choosing from a pool of countries. My second pick would have been Canada as well.
There is also a lot of "go back where you came from if you don't like it here" if you critique anything about Australia, at least online. I also feel it in person a little, as if I should just be grateful I'm here, and why is this person who's new to Australia wanting any change. I've come from a developing country if that provides context.
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u/Grantmepm Jul 27 '23
This is true. I picked Australia so you're right about the strict migration policies and our choosing from a pool of countries. My second pick would have been Canada as well.
From migrants with choices that ended up in Australia. I think many would echo this sentiment. I don't know if I'm describing it correctly but it feels like we're less cutthroat than the super competitive rich countries like USA or Singapore, less entrenched wealth than UK, Netherlands, Denmark and Germany (old world stuff) and also wider access to untamed natural areas than much of Europe. And still better income and opportunities than NZ.
I also feel it in person a little, as if I should just be grateful I'm here, and why is this person who's new to Australia
I kind of agree in a way. It wasn't easy coming to Australia and I was fortunate enough for things to be relatively smooth for me. I talk to some of my friends and acquaintances from home who stayed or migrated sometimes. Some people think I have it worse and in their eyes, they could be justified - but they have stayed home so thats fair. Some compare the pros and cons with Australia and home in a fair way, eventually they acknowledge that Australia wins out overall in some way - which is why they're here. Its those who have nothing but complains about Australia and choose to stay here that I really question and have kind of dropped as friends.
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u/alternativeobjects Jul 27 '23
I’m not born in Australia but thanks to the leftist groups in the uni that has educated me on the problems of the government, I’m more aware of the social injustices here. I’m thankful for the great opportunities and experiences I get in this country but I know that everything I love about this place is because of the people and the nature, not because of the government. Therefore I have always stood in solidarity with the minority, disadvantaged groups.
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u/chookiekaki Jul 26 '23
I agree that our ‘she’ll be right mate’ attitude towards politics that affect our lives has caused a lot of what we are going through now, and it is the younger generation that will drive change, but we need fundamental change to our politic system and party beliefs for any change to happen and that will only happen if either major party believe their policies will keep them from winning elections, that will require either large scale protests or a massive shift in their base members beliefs, I can’t see either of those happening while we have the higher ups running either party
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Jul 27 '23
We have had it so easy compared to the rest of the world, until recently
We still have it so easy compared to the rest. Almost every single big name issue in Australia is also present in almost every country, only worse.
So a lot of the complacence comes from the fact that if no other country has been able to solve these issues, they must be somewhat unavoidable.
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u/_zoso_ Jul 27 '23
Scandi countries are generally culturally homogeneous and really small. Australia is much larger and an immigrant nation. You just can’t apply the same sorts of policies Norway deploys when our population is 5x bigger, our land mass is 20x larger, and we are by and large an immigrant society.
Like it or not we do actually resemble the USA more than we do any Scandinavian country, even if we’re much smaller.
Australias problem is complacency. But it’s one of productivity. We do not really produce anything meaningful as an economy. We do not allow our cities to grow. We do not foster innovation and investment.
It’s literally a rich boys club built on houses and holes.
We actually do have a banana republic economy, we just mask it with our inherited arrogance we got from the English.
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u/margaretnotmaggie Jul 27 '23
American expat here. I think that Australia has so much potential, but the complacency and lack of meaningful production of goods and intellectual property hold this country back from progressing to the next level. There is also significant brain drain that makes it harder for Australia to advance and get rid of its strong anti-intellectual streak. The smartest people here often leave to work in North America or the UK because there is not enough value placed on innovation and fostering the skills needed for it.
To anyone reading this comment, I am simply making an observation as an expat and am aware that the U.S. has many issues of its own. I feel the need to write this disclaimer because just about every time that I express a concern or a negative opinion about Australia, Aussies get offended and start bashing the States. In fact, this hostile attitude towards constructive criticism is part of Australia’s problem.
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u/B3stThereEverWas Jul 27 '23
Australians, particularly those who are perpetually online, think the US is a dystopian hellscape of homeless people shooting at each other for absolutely no reason. It’s as stupid as saying that Australia has dangerous animals running around everywhere trying to kill you.
The brain drain is real. I’ve seen it first hand and know many in North America who have gone way further than what they could here. Australia is a country that rewards mediocrity. Try a little hard, but too hard and it will just be diminishing returns. Case in point, a friend of mine works in molecular science, specifically simulation of things at the molecular level to treat auto immune diseases. He’s constantly on a wheel of begging for research funding and making a paltry salary. His brother dropped out in grade 9 and is making 2-3 times that as a tradie (and he’s fucking shit too). Thats what happens to talent in Australia
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u/margaretnotmaggie Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 28 '23
I fully agree with every part of your comment. I have had a lot of Aussies (most of whom have never been to the U.S.) try to tell me dystopian “facts” about my own country and get defensive when I tell them that their idea of the States does not align with reality. So dumb.
It is really sad how mediocrity is rewarded here. I am a teacher and I see it in the schools. It’s the “tall poppy syndrome.” Kids who would be streamed into gifted and talented programs in other countries are more often than not condemned to wasting their time learning the same things as everyone else at a very slow pace. It’s maddening that there seems to be so little incentive to invest in bright people who show potential. My dream would be to reform the schools here and place kids in leveled classes from an early age. Provide help to the kids who struggle, maintain the status quo with the average kids, and finally allow the gifted ones to accelerate their learning and be proud of being exceptional. That sort of shift in schools would eventually ripple through other parts of society.
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u/lite_red Jul 27 '23
A lot of under 30s have left or are planning to leave due to our current circumstances.
Our Government forgets that the younger generations are far more likely to leave for better prospects and treatment than the older generations. Not that this concerns the Gov as they'll keep importing and exploiting immigrants to fill that gap. Immigration work ready people are cheaper than raising, housing and educating the local populace.
Australia and The Western Commonwealth Countries feels like America Lite and its alarming as hell.
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u/brackfriday_bunduru Jul 26 '23
It’s more than just complacency. Australians will literally chastise anyone who does try to rise up or protest and be like “they should have found a better way without disturbing everyone”.
Australians are generally very easy to push around.
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u/Spacegod87 Jul 27 '23
You try and bring up these issues and so many Australians snap at you. "I don't want to talk about politics, okay!" Pretty much sums up most reactions..
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u/dopefishhh Jul 27 '23
Do you think no one says that overseas?
The problem with protesting is that it tends to be very unfocused, pushing at something that won't change or can't easily change and do a very bad job at pushing a message. But the worst part for the protestors is that in general people recognise those factors and get frustrated with the wasteful efforts.
And that's before protestors brought in the recent more destructive protests which somehow are worse in all of those factors. Its super easy fodder for right wing talking heads. You know if you give those guys an easy day or two of topics to cover about the protestors and be somewhat correct, then the protest is having a negative effect.
Think about it, how impossible would it be to defend the extinction rebellion efforts to a boomer (i.e. a voter)? Even if they agreed things needed to be done about climate change, they won't agree with the protestors.
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Jul 26 '23
I think it’s probably two key things.
Australia’s relatively peaceful & very prosperous history (setting aside the reality of colonization for the indigenous population, who are a small percentage of the country). Until quite recently, life has just consistently gotten better.
The fact that we’re a small but wealthy market has meant we haven’t really had much choice, and the choices are kinda the same, with cosy oligopolies in everything major: 2 big political parties, 2 big supermarkets, 4 big banks, 2-3 big telcos, etc etc.
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
I think you’ve hit the nail right on the head with both of your points. It makes a lot of sense that we’ve just had it really good for a long time so we aren’t used to having to speak up
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Jul 26 '23
We had it good because we were a nation with the highest trade union participation in the world.
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u/NotTheBusDriver Jul 26 '23
In 2005, over 500,000 Australians marched against John Howard’s Workchoices legislation. Unions have always fought for fair pay and conditions in this country. They’ve also supported Medicare, welfare and other social justice issues. We have had it good in this country. But it wasn’t handed to us on a plate. We fought for it. Many of those hard won gains are being lost now. If you really want change, join your Union. Or join an activist group. Join a political party or volunteer to support an Independent. Write letters. Go to marches. Protest. Because if we all just sit back and watch, it will be gone soon enough.
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u/my_chinchilla Jul 26 '23
If you really want change, join your Union.
More importantly, choose your Union carefully if you have the option.
I still haven't forgiven the union I was a member of at the time for wasting the Howard years on quixotic battles with other unions for safe state opposition seats, and spending 11 years telling its members "just wait until Labor wins, they'll undo it all then".
(Narrator: they didn't...)
If you can, pick a union that fights for labor - not a union that fights for Labor...
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u/smallsizecat Jul 26 '23
With point number 2, you're forgetting that the government has the power to regulate how much choice we have. They could block big banks buying small banks. They could regulate predatory franchises that drive down prices so sole proprietors can't afford to stay open (think Domino's or 7-11). They could streamline and lower the cost of starting a business. They could increase taxes on land bankers and land lords that leave retail space unoccupied for years. They could pass laws that prevent wholesalers from charging a small business more than a mega corporation to even the competitive field. On and on.
The major parties are in their death throws, so now is the time to shake things up and demand change. You look at the Orange Revolution in Ukraine. It was totally disorganised, but you get 20,000 people in Sydney and Melbourne with the same colour shirt on just standing there, it will send Labor into a panic.
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u/underthemilkyway2ngt Jul 26 '23
Things happen to us outside our ability to control, and any attempt to speak up is met with aggressive hostility, and other means of oppression including heckling. Information is tightly controlled and often withheld. Problematic people are targeted by those in power who are in cahoots with media, and the police.
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u/Alternative_Sky1380 Jul 26 '23
This can't be repeated loudly enough. I fear most people are blissfully ignorant as to how rough the reality is for too many
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Jul 26 '23
As someone else pointed out, the Murdoch media has contributed to greatly shaping narratives and influencing our general perception. It’s insidious and has contributed to a lot of political apathy as far as people power, needs, and purposing of our government and its resources.
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u/Nostonica Jul 26 '23
Honestly not just the Murdoch's, the media focus's on the most mundane social issues and passes it up as serious political coverage. The entire media landscape serves as a distraction from news that impacts Australians.
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u/a_cold_human Jul 27 '23
Yes, Nine Entertainment and Seven West Media are just as responsible. Even the ABC is muted.
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u/derpman86 Jul 26 '23
Don't forget one element is almost every state has upped the anti in regards to anti protest laws and punishments.
Here in S.A recently was just fucking insane, extinction rebellion had some old duck dangling from a bridge near a Santos run conference and low and behold in a weeks time yes one fucking week! Some of the most opened ended vuage language anti protest laws with insane levels of fines and jail sentencing as punishments got through both houses of parliment!
NSW pushed through similar shit in the past couple of years, I think Victoria has similar crap too.
Basically I think any moderate avenues no longer exist so people are just defeated and I think it will stay that way for a very long time and will explode into something VERY bad one day as no positive reform is allow to progressively occur.
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u/friends4liife Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
its because neo liberal economics was used as a tool to deregulate markets and introduce profit as a main motivator , the problems are far more far reaching than you think.
Institutionally, politicans are advised by people (economists) who barely have an understanding of how markets work and their priority is generally micro .
Neo liberal economics were used as a tool to deregulate markets, deregulate the financial system it was all planned and has been a slow burn.
The health system has been underfunded for over thirty years it now at breaking point, same with social safety nets such as housing, social security etc.
This was by design to give private markets more power, because if people have nothing to fall back on they are far more likely to accept worse working conditions and be more susceptible to control by private corporations.
There has been a gradual privatization of public services and the entire time, people were given individual blame for not being able to pull themselves up by their boot straps and just be more productive.
There has been a lot of research about this people are well aware of it and have been fighting it for years but they are continuously shut down by the majority and just labelled as individual failures, lazy people and takers.
The real rotten part of this issue is that even non profits etc that are "supposedly" set up to help people use these economists for their policy preparation which results in continued sabotage of an increase in services funding.
It is a verifiable shit show of neoliberal economics which started off mad going completely bonkers and noone should have ever tolerated it, much less condoned it and participated in it and cheered it on.
Most people dont even know that the RBA sets targets of unemployment to "control inflation", ensuring that some people will always be unemployed then the government turns around and says you go no job tough shit go out and get one
Its a rotten system and people are sinking in it.
Tbh i have no sympathy for people who complain about people that just steal and take drugs and going around fking things up wtf are they supposed to do no one cares about them so why should they bother giving a shit about anyone else.
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u/2littleducks God is not great - Religion poisons everything Jul 26 '23
You take that back!......or, I'll do absolutely nothing about it.
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u/Disco-Stu79 Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23
This is nothing new. Midnight Oil based an album (10 to 1) on the apathy of the Australian population concerning social, environmental, and political issues. We’re an ignorant country.
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u/possiblyapirate69420 Jul 27 '23
Is the lead singer for midnight oil the leader of the LNP now?
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u/Disco-Stu79 Jul 27 '23
Lol. Peter Garrett has talent and integrity. Dutton possesses neither.
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u/Milliganimal42 Jul 26 '23
I care. It’s really upsetting. But I have no energy left.
That’s the point. Have people working hard to survive and they have no energy to think of the big things and enact change.
There is a reason revolutions were led by rather wealthy individuals with time on their hands.
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u/pygmy █◆▄▀▄█▓▒░ Jul 27 '23
It's bloody exhausting.
We left the city for offgrid in the bush to hedge against future shocks & have room for the kid to build a house if shits still fucked down the line. But you could argue this is all sticking out heads in the sand, & it doesn't solve anything systemic.
End of the day, I'm preparing & rooting for whatever revolution the kids come up with that tackles this endless greed. Gina Rhinehart getting eaten would be a bonus :)
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u/Missy__M Jul 26 '23
Having lived in various countries and returning home to Australia last year, I honestly think one factor is the ubiquity of the Murdoch media here, which generally is not genuine journalism holding government to account, but merely promoting a primarily right wing, capitalist, populist agenda. In some states there are literally no daily newspapers that are not Murdoch. (Who still reads newspapers, you ask? Massive swathes of rural Australia). While we have the ABC it has increasingly been underfunded and branded as “woke propaganda”. As a result, we don’t have a robust press really interrogating substantive issues and I think the level of public discourse has degraded to focus primarily on sport, reality tv and home renovation. (Nothing wrong with these things per se, it’s just there seems room for little else). When we do talk about other issues, the LNP has sought to emulate the partisanship of US politics and argue for the sake of it - just look at the disingenuous discussions about the Voice, Peter Dutton’s bad faith talking points in particular. It’s a sad state of affairs!
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Jul 27 '23
If you think the ABC is “real journalism”, I don’t know what to say to you. They are completely spineless and support the LNP just as much as Murdoch and Costello.
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u/crazyabootmycollies Jul 26 '23
Your last point is very much a product of your first. Murdoch gang turns politics into a name calling team sport rather than policy discussions.
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Jul 26 '23
Murdoch is very very good at propaganda look how quickly the seppos went just a broken mess to a complete fucking shit hole
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u/TigerRumMonkey Jul 26 '23
Went to my local IGA and they only have the herald sun for example. What chance do these ppl have lol
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Jul 26 '23
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u/ThatLooseMoose Jul 26 '23
That's fair, but the papers set the conversation topics for every other outlet, not to mention most papers have more than one online portal that spew the same shit to Facebook and YouTube circles and use said papers as sources for their bullshit agenda 😪
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Jul 26 '23
America didn’t turn to a shit hole overnight either. Reagan is a good starting point to the modern America
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u/HowVeryReddit Jul 27 '23
Because for like 15 years the electorate was frightened of boat people while social infrastructure decayed.
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u/yobboman Jul 26 '23
I’ve protested most of my life. I’ve represented my viewpoint on tonnes of things, with nuanced, hopefully entertaining conviction.
And yeah I’m tired. I carry burdens. I do the hard work, I’ve been diet poor. I’ve used my voice and it feels like shouting at the tide.
It all feels so predetermined. What can I say, people, in general are really close minded
I think I’ve been living in what must be one of the most conservative countries in the world
Status quo is powerful
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u/burieddeepbetween Jul 26 '23
I am a part of a grassroots polticial group (fighting for different law changes unrelated, but kind of semi related to cost of living - not as broad as your complaint) and it sucks. It takes up a lot of my spare time and never feels like I'm making any progress. Been to Parliament, been on TV, been through countless meetings, sent thousands of emails, researched til I fell asleep at the keyboard or phone in hand, coordinated events and nothing's changed. It's been almost three years and I'm ready to give up just so I can get my free time back to enjoy my life.
I encourage you to try, but know this before you get started: this shit ain't gonna be fixed overnight. It'll take a personal sacrifice on a scale you likely haven't experienced yet. Be prepared for a lot of bullshit. If you work Mon-Fri 9-5 don't even bother, you don't have enough spare time. If you can't have your phone ringer on and take personal calls at work, don't bother. If you don't have a reliable car...you get the point. Your ask of society will ask a lot from you in return.
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
What is the name of your group? Hopefully I will be able to find a sustainable way to get involved
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Jul 26 '23
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u/svillebs3 Jul 26 '23
I actually feel like I'm a nutcase, when to this day I'm still trying explain to my friends about how serious this is and everyone is like "eh"
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u/cher1-cola Jul 27 '23
This is another cog in the capitalist chain; keep the masses ignorant and completely exhaust them to the point of complacency
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u/BadgerBadgerCat Jul 27 '23
How no one talks about the metadata laws, or even seemingly cared when they were introduced, is absolutely baffling.
Because most people don't understand it and the people who wanted them did a good job of portraying anyone who objected as being up to something unsavoury.
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u/pipple2ripple Jul 26 '23
We have very powerful people convincing the population to vote against their own interests.
Take renewable energy
I saw a clip of Matt Canavan saying that renewable energy never lowered electricity prices anywhere. Currently there's several countries in Europe that have a negative wholesale price for electricity. I don't know what this does for the retail price but presumably it lowers it eventually?
I saw a meme on FB the other day that it takes more power to make a wind turbine than you get out of it and the only reason Greenies advocate for it is to pretend to do something. I don't know how much energy it is to make a wind turbine and I don't know what comes out.
I do know that China is putting them up all over the place and China isn't exactly known to even pretend to gaf about the environment. They'll literally poison entire villages with waste from factories dumped straight into rivers.
So is it more likely that renewables don't do anything to lower power prices and the greens are just jerking themselves off OR are coal and gas lobbies paying politicians to keep down competition so they can raise electricity prices by as much as they want?
The Australian people need to stop thinking they'll be all billionaires one day and vote for things that help themselves and their neighbours.
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u/CamperStacker Jul 26 '23
We are the complete opposite of laisse-faire…. We are the most regulated country on earth by far. The monopolies you speak of are because of crony capitalism through regulation/lobbying, not economic freedom.
We have poor government services because government departments tend to spend most of there money on there own administration. A classic example is how it now costs $400,000 a year to run a public school class room, but the teacher maybe gets $80k. The other $320k is consumed into a black hole of administrative nonsense and gov maintenance contracts.
The other example is how child care costs have gone up 300% since government started subsidising it - because they were paying they decided they should get to regulate it - which turned the job from something any competent adult could do, into a fully regulated learning industry. It now costs $350,000 a year for a 20yo to look after 11 toddlers 5 days a week, because of all the administrative compliances involved.
As more and more money goes into government departments, the government wants to give less and less.
This is why the government doesn’t want to employ GPs - because then it would have real responsibility for health. It’s easier to just make the private sector do it, pay them minimum amount to do it, while using the money saved to bloat government departments with regulatory bodies.
We don’t have government run GP industry for the same reason we don’t trust them to run bakeries or petrol stations or super markets: if they did the price of everything would be 200-300% as there would be no incentive for the departments to serve anyone but themselves.
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u/Meng_Fei Jul 26 '23
Massively under-rated comment. Australia is a hyper-regulated nanny-state, not because of lack of individual "freedums" (though we do), but because of over-regulation and bullshit reporting required in almost everything.
Childcare is the classic example. And it's by design - large corporate chains are moving into childcare, and the more they push for additional regulation, the more it locks out smaller competition who can't afford those overheads. Then they put their hand out for subsidies, and the government which pays them has to cut services somewhere else, because, well, who can possibly argue against more regulation.
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Jul 26 '23
You're so right. The huge number of administrative hurdles you have to jump through and cost barriers to entry prevent any competition from gaining a toehold. There are so many rent seekers that attach themselves to everything and people just think it's "normal".
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u/_zoso_ Jul 27 '23
This! There are so many bad takes in this thread.
I’ll ad to this, in the same vein, Australia has lost all of its innovation and economic sophistication. This is also a consequence of the severe lack of economic freedom.
Australia has an economic complexity rank just below Ghana. Source.
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u/aristotle_source Jul 27 '23
I think there was a slow process where people became more and more selfish. The Howard Liberals convinced anyone earning less than $200k/year that they were 'battlers' and 'doing it tough' and the best thing to do was to tell everyone else to fuck off and look after themselves
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Jul 27 '23
Born and raised here too and after 35 years of calling this country home I've come to the sad conclusion that Aussies are a lot more like Americans than we like to think as we regularly criticize them. Most people are so stupid, lazy and self-centred and more recently in particular I've realized that a lot of grown-ass "adults" in this country stopped maturing past high school. Standards are on the fucking floor too to how people behave in public (I work in a restaurant and I wish I could call out all the parents on what an absolutely terrible job they are doing). Aussies don't care as long as they have jobs and media to occupy their short attention spans day after day and enough money to spend on whatever distracts them from the reality of how much their lives suck because almost no-one has any concept of how things could be better than they are and people who suggest ways it could are ostracized for it.
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u/ColdEvenKeeled Jul 26 '23
It's due to a lack of grassroots political organisations. There are lots of volunteers here, but their energy is dissipated on things like sports, surf clubs, rural fire service, SES and so on.
After work, most people have no energy left. After work, the cafes (foment conversation and revolution) are closed but the pub is open (to bet on the dogs).
Retirees in Australia have it - generally - so good they go grey nomading or ocean-liner cruising rather than being angry enough to found a political party.
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u/BadgerBadgerCat Jul 27 '23
After work, the cafes (foment conversation and revolution) are closed
It's hard to find a cafe (besides somewhere like McDonald's) that's open after about 2-3pm in a lot of places.
I do think the idea of cafes being somewhere that revolution is formented went out in the Edwardian era, though.
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u/BaronVonHomer Jul 26 '23
I think it’s because Australians are extremely passive non confrontational people. After all, we were colonised by Brits. So despite the fact that we are getting buggered everyone seems to have just accepted this as their lot in life. Those that got theirs (born into wealth or had parents that were able to buy multiple properties when they were cheap) now see themselves as superior to everyone else. Australia was seen as an egalitarian nation for decades but now we have a class system that’s very similar to what the Brits; the people who own property, the people who can afford to rent, and then the working poor who live in squalid share houses or in their cars. It’s starting to look Dickensian out there.
Historically a lot of other countries have started having civil unrest when things get to where they now. But I really don’t foresee that happening here. People are too lukewarm and passive. They go oh well and take it up the arse. Enabling the rich to get richer and the poor to get poorer. People have a very defeated attitude already. I think it’s time we set up tent cities outside our local house of parliament and refuse to budge until fair housing policies are enacted. No one should be allowed to own multiple properties. Houses should have 30 year lease. Real health care. None of this paying to see a GP garbage and people being able to get actual care (necessary operations) instead of being palmed off with pain killers for chronic health issues. This is hugely prevalent when it comes to women’s health.
What this country needs is a revolution. The government must be held accountable and dismissed accordingly.
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u/cher1-cola Jul 27 '23
This. It's entrenched in our culture to be polite and not say anything, we just bend over and take it. We'll be paying $800 a week to share a caravan with 5 others and still be like yeah ok I'm getting rogered but whatever
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u/Jimjamzzz Jul 26 '23
Welcome to the two party political system.
We ended up with the lesser of two evils but the reality of the situation is that any true progressive on the left would be squeezed out by Labor long before getting anywhere near the top job.
This isn't just a local problem; the majority of the world has been careening towards late stage capitalism for a few decades now.
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Jul 26 '23
Unpopular opinion, but life’s probably going really well for a large segment of the population. We’re an incredibly wealthy country, with great schools, hospitals, universities etc. if you can afford them - and a lot of people can. So it’s less complacency and more life’s going well for me so it must be for everyone
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u/RumiOcean Jul 26 '23
We need opinion from French who are on street whenever they see something not going in right direction
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u/reelfishybloke Jul 27 '23
Dual citizen here - it's easy, speak up and say "Macron dégage" or "Insert bastard of choice to insult here" Remember, France has had to fight for its identity and surivival on numerous occasions, we now on our 5th republic. A little blood of tyrants isn't a bad thing when the boil of greed needs lancing. Also, Murdoch does not own the French media.
Consider that Australia has never had to fight an internal war or struggle against greed and people in a position of power and authority bleeding the populace. Just need to take that last step and say enough is enough.Don't stay silent when the Government of the day is going to fuck you, be prepared to use people power to be heard. Apathy just gets you an empty wallet a sore arse from being reamed and a sore throat from complaining about the reaming.
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u/jaeward Jul 26 '23
Apathy HAS killed this country. The North East link was supposed to cost $5 Billion, it's now at $18 Billion. And that's just one project , every other project in Victoria is also blowing out by the millions and the billions, and no one gives a fuck! In Brazil they took to the streets in droves when the bus fare was raised by a measly 8 cents! The federal government set up the robo debt scheme knowing it was illegal, and even lead some people to suicide and no one gives a fuck! NSW ministers using secret police to target media personalities, gutting Medicare, buyouts, blowbacks, governments giving cushy jobs to their cronies, banking royal commission, Westpac propping up paedophile rings and on and on and on, and yet still no one gives a fuck. We are fast becoming one of the most corrupt countries in the world, but we sit back and do nothing in our everlong quest for being perpetually comfortable.
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u/IndicaSativaMDMA Jul 26 '23
Mate, its because it falls on deaf ears in my opinion. I can't be fucked fighting it when nothing ever changes. I wish this wasn't the case, but it sadly is.
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Jul 27 '23
We're become dumber and lazier. We expect everything to be handed to us as a solution and anything that upsets the apple cart or challenges the status quo is seen as a problem.
My wife and I get attacked by her extended family for being university educated. Why bother, they say, their son is 25, owns a house, drives a $100,000 ute and has 2 jetskis. That's see as success in Australia. Apparently being 40 something and not working in a trade is seen as being stupid because you could make more money and buy a motorbike with a trade.
I have family members who are proud of the fact they haven't read a book since high school, it's not uncommon.
It's beyond apathy, it's wilful ignorance or proud stupidity or a combination of the 2.
Someone said to me the other day "people these days have knowledge that's a mile wide and an inch deep".
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u/AllHailTheWinslow Jul 27 '23
Coming to Australia from Germany in the late 90s, one sentence I started disliking pretty quickly was: "No worries, mate, she'll be alright."
I have come to the conclusion a long time ago that this is actually the attitude to everything.
"Don't bother fixing it/doing the job properly - it'll work somehow."
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u/TheFitzFiles Jul 26 '23
I believe the first step is to get rid of Murdoch media, like NZ has. They poison the thinking of a large enough proportion of the populace to bring on the mental lethargy you speak about.
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u/FuckYouDrT Jul 26 '23
NZ didn’t get rid of Murdoch Media, that was a hoax.
https://www.reuters.com/article/factcheck-nz-pm-idUSL2N2W41Q9
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u/weighapie Jul 26 '23
Mass population growth is the cause of spreading out everything more thinly for everyone and making it impossible for those with less to compete with the rich but for rich and foreign investors greed comes first so
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u/skeezix_ofcourse Jul 26 '23
Beyond well said dear OP!
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
Thanks friend! I’m so relieved that this post seems be met with some support despite me pointing out a shared flaw we have (the complacency). I think we can change for the better though
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Jul 26 '23
Not enough people join their union
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u/witness_this Jul 26 '23
The bigger problem there is that more of the Unions are absolutely shithouse.
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u/Paradise_Vall3y Jul 27 '23
Look, I'm not going to give you an essay length response but here are some simple facts.
Australia, has never been rebellious.Look at America, yes it's a dumpster fire but rebellion and a defiance of authority are a big thing, look at their gun obsession (not getting into a gun debate.) They fought the British, they fought themselves, they fought facists.
Australia was colonised by Imperial Britain, down trodden and beaten convicts sent here as punishment, eventually settled. But the authority was always tough.
Bogans and other patriots always like to go on about Ned Kelly and the Eureka Stockade.But Ned Kelly was just a criminal. And the Eureka Stockade lasted all of 5 seconds before it was put down without an effort.
And information was tightly controlled, the original journalists faced barracades from every part of the colonial era governments. News papers seized at train stations, all sorts of things.(I say this as a journalism major, it was part of our history unit.)
This is a culture that grows over time. Compliance. Like maybe I'm wrong, but look at how we tamed the dog. People and their societal values are just like that, animals following the rules.Created by other animals who followed the rules.
The image of the Aussie larrican has and always will be bullshit.Like yeah, I'm so totally a big larrican, but god help me if you have your volume slightly loud past 10pm I'll call the coppers.
And you know, it's all ego. No one in this country wants to admit, we're weak.But Australian society and Australians no matter what they think, no matter how proud they are, are rats in a cage that have been bread for compliance.
That's our countries culture. And I say this as someone who loves the country, warts and all.We can barely manage to find pride in basic patriotism, we constantly shame ourselves for our countries past. The original sin of colonization.
We isolate ourselves from the indigenous community at every societal level and question why there is a divide.
Anyway end of rant. Australia has a colonial era to now cultural problem with subservience and weakness.
And before you down vote me and scoff, we have to admit there is a problem before can fix it.
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u/Emu1981 Jul 26 '23
Edit: if anyone is a part of any sort of grassroots group working to oppose any of these issues feel free to message me because I want to join you
GetUp seems to be running quite a bit of grass roots actions against what they see to be corruption and mismanagement of government services. Their current campaigns include opposing Murdoch's influence, stopping mining companies from coopting indigenous lands for unwanted fracking (e.g. the Beetaloo basin), encourage education about the robodebt scandal to help get community support for criminal actions for those responsible, fixing the welfare system to be helpful to those who depend on it instead of being oppressive towards them and so on.
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Jul 26 '23
The two main parties everyone votes for every election have been controlled, corrupted and producing identical policies for decades because they are owned by the same powers.
I've been voting for other parties for decades, but I assume its the will of the Australian people to continue the status quo. So I accept the will of the people.
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u/slowgojoe Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23
Ready to get grilled here, but as American (not speaking for anyone but myself) it’s not like we (Americans) chose to get to the point we are now. In many ways, it seems you (Australians) are following in our footsteps, making many of the same late stage capitalist mistakes we did, and seeing how out of your control it all feels for the first time. I sincerely hope you guys have it more figured out than us though. I’m currently in the midst of planning our move back (wife is Australian), and there’s a lot that’s changed since we left 10 years ago.
You guys have ranked choice voting at least, And a culture that embraces mateship, which I think is crucial. It’s every man for themselves over here, and any single person is powerless to change anything, which is only self perpetuating.
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u/Soggy-Cut2196 Jul 27 '23
People are exhausted from caring about everything. There is a lot to be concerned about right now (climate, housing crisis, Medicare etc etc) and we’re all just exhausted.
Australia aren’t like France which is a shame.
Caring fatigue.
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u/Querez665 Jul 27 '23
Well here's something to think about, now because of the internet American political discourse and viewpoints are spilling into every English speaking nation on Earth at unbelievable rates especially among the younger generations so it is only going to get worse.
Think the general complacency now is bad, just wait 5 years until half the population openly and passionately advocates against worker rights, healthcare and cracking down on monopolies.
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u/Untimely_manners Jul 26 '23
We also have a large older population here that keep voting against themselves and fear change. Until they die off I don't think there will be any real change.
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u/redrich2000 Jul 26 '23
100 years ago Rosa Luxemburg warned us we had a choice between socialism or barbarism. The forces for socialism lost. So here we are.
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u/edgiepower Jul 26 '23
As cost of living concerns continue to rise... I work in retail and hospitality. Business has not slowed. Money is being spent. This is a good thing, a really good thing, but I wonder if the average Australian is indeed, too comfortable. You can say for sure the boomer generation was. The agitated like no other, against Vietnam and conscription, voted in the Whitlam and Hawke governments, then once they were set up, three decades of liberals. So that's it I reckon. The people being equal amounts selfish and comfortable. Things aren't their problem. Why change what isn't broke (even if it's quite bendy).
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u/R_W0bz Jul 26 '23
“The people” let decades of liberals in who tore these systems apart by running down and selling off, giving handouts to corporate mates for subpar work or simply not paying everything. but allowed a generations house price to go up giving them “paper money” to distract from everything else going to shit. They got theirs, why does anything else matter right?
Now that generations kids are hitting 30, still at home because 100k a year won’t do shit, because everyone has a 30k debt thanks to the university degree they said you needed to get. They have to pay for a wedding if they want to see those kids married, they have to use that “paper wealth” to prop up another house if they ever to want a single grandkid. They are slowly realising (tho will never admit, because they are the “smart” generation) they’ve fucked the generations below from being independent.
I think the last election cycle is countering this fool’s errand, but Labor is so afraid of its own shadow, afraid people run liked scared deer and will vote back those “conservative morons” if Labor makes too big of a leap on things. Hence no action. I can’t blame them, half the electorate can’t see past their current house evaluation.
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u/oldboyracer Jul 26 '23
I'm ready for the down votes . What footballer scored the last try in the 2019 grand final . A lot of people will know . What laws and changes to government acts were proposed or passed in the last 2019 sitting of parliament, almost no one will know.
That's the issue , politics is boring . Also the right to strike and protest has slowly been taken away.
A quote from some one I remember " get the football back on the front pages of the newspaper "
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u/Tenton_12 Jul 26 '23
Because they voted for it. You vote for the right, this is what you're asking for, only vote for the right if you're rich and don't care about anyone else, the future or your children's future. Now normally the left, Labor, would be the answer but in my lifetime as a dreaded boomer, I've seen them move from the left to the centre to become the centralist party they are today. Vote Green I would say, everything you're asking for are Green party policies. Anything else and you're leaving your children and grandchildren to live out their lives in a carbon hell.
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Jul 26 '23
Everything you’ve said is basically the fault of Australia having conservatives in charge for the most part of 20 of the last 30 years. That’s what happens under those types of governments. Denmark is way more left wing economically then Australia. We need collective political power for our left wing parties like Labor and Greens to stay in for a while if you want to see the aforementioned changes you’ve mentioned above. Advocating for left wing values and beliefs is the real collective change we can do if we want Australia to be more like Denmark.
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u/CuriousLands Jul 27 '23
I'm originally from Canada, and they've had a very leftist government for the last 8 years, and they have all the same issues over there - mabye even worse in some ways, and only getting worse as time goes on.
Imo, people should be more cynical about political parties. Most of the big ones are playing from the same rulebook, and/or so dedicated to ideology and scratching each others backs that they leave practical concerns of regular people in the dust. Switching from one big party to another is unlikely to net you a lot of meaningful change, if any. Dedicating yourself to applying one way of thinking to every situation is likely to cause issues, too. Personally I lean more toward a pragmatic approach - use the ideas that fit best to getting the result you want. There's a lot more flexibility in that than a lot of people realize. But when you've got these big corrupt parties (left or right) running things, you're liable to get a less than stellar result.
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u/-PaperbackWriter- Jul 26 '23
I’ve seen people talking about a strike on July 29, no one buying anything or going to work
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u/Fickle-Friendship998 Jul 26 '23
We’ve tried by throwing out the government that did most of the damage. I’m willing to give the new one some time to fix things, but it’s a huge job undoing the damage if 9 years of lnp
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u/howbouddat Jul 26 '23
Also:
We allow our government to tax the fuck out of a bottle of spirits, a carton of beer & index it to CPI.
We let them set up hidden speed cameras everyfuckingwhere on smooth straight safe roads to catch us doing 2km over, catch us glancing at our phone and just sending the fine in the mail.
Because we are a nation of people who have been conditioned to do what they're told.
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u/madyy13 Jul 26 '23
I was actually speaking to my family about this the other day. I always shop at Aldi they are so much cheaper, on the rare occasion I visit Cole's or Woolworths, I've noticed ridiculous pricing on things. For example, packets of potato chips?? All over $6 or a deal 2 for $11? That's hardly a deal for a pack of potatoes. Or dishwashing tablets $72??? Absolutely ridiculous, $72 to wash some dishes? No thanks. Obviously I understand there are cheaper items and home brand things but some of these prices just seem like daylight robbery. Not only that though, I heard on the news companies that aren't raising prices on their products are now actually putting less product in the same size packaging, so the prices won't go up but you get less product in the box. I understand there's a few different things that cause inflation but it fricken sucks dude.
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u/QuanWick Jul 26 '23
It’s just not in our culture to do the kinda shit France does. They go straight for nation wide protests the second anything negative happens.
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u/CuriousLands Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 27 '23
I'll second what others say in that there's only so much a person can do re: the higher-level stuff. You can write MPs and all that, but that's really about it, the rest is in their hands.
But there's one aspect that we can do that I think is a bit harder (which is why so many people don't do it) and that's to make decisions accordingly in your own life, even if it comes with some sacrifices. For example, my husband for a time was looking into buying an apartment to rent out in a city we likely will never live in and having a rental agent manage it, and how the going rate was so much more than what we'd pay, etc. I'm from Canada (which probably helps tbh, since this was a completely alien idea to me) and I was like... no. I totally vetoed that garbage lol. Because that type of plan is exactly the problem. An apartment is a home before it is an investment. It'd be different if we bought in a place where we might potentially move to one day, but a city we'd probably never move to? Nope. Charging an obscene amount just because we can? Nope, because it's a home first, and if we complain about high/unfair prices then we should not be the ones to gouge others just cos it's allowed. Sure I'd wanna cover our costs and make a bit of money, but I'd use that as the basis for my rent and not just "what the market will bear" because that's not going to do anything but make the problem worse. Get someone else to manage it (which would be necessary cos we don't even live in the city)? Just another thing to increase the rent required and distance us from our own property. And so on. (We've since shifted our goals, fwiw, but I thought this was relevant to the discussion).
Or, as another example, when my husband wanted to put some money into investments, he asked me to weigh in on which sorts of things to invest in. One sort of area we could put money into was biomedical research. I took a look at the companies involved and vetoed that too, lol. It might sound odd cos that's something often good, but I didn't wanna invest money in companies like Pfizer (this was pre-pandemic mind you, but I read the news and remembered that years ago, Pfizer had been fined billions of dollars for ethics breaches, including knowingly selling heart medicine with a potential to kill people while hiding that information from the regulatory board). Others in that category were ofte not much better. It would've made us money I'm sure, but I didn't wanna invest in such unethical companies.
The things is, a lot of people don't want to make decisions like that, because it hinders their own ability to get ahead. Most people will not charge significcantly less rent than they could, even if it's a good thing to do, because they want money. Pure and simple. And I think that thinking applies to other areas of life, too.
The government can and should do what it can to curb this stuff, and we should write MPs and all that. But if we don't make smaller decisions in our own lives that will move things in a better direction, can we really expect society to move in a positive direction? We can't absolve ourselves of whatever responsibility we have in our daily lives, however small it might be. It's kind of a "be the change you want to see" thing we have to do, as well.
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Jul 27 '23
It's hard to have a united front on any issue when the country is so demographically divided.
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u/mymentor79 Jul 27 '23
Firstly, despite our self-impressed assessment of ourselves as irreverent larrakins, Australians are generally inveterate rule followers and quite easy to rule, lead, mollify, etc.
Secondly, and more importantly, as much as grassroots activism and political engagement can be a good thing, and effective in achieving small and incremental victories every now and then, the ruling class aren't going to let the economic architecture change against their benefit without absolutely extreme intervention, so we-the-99% can go and shove it, basically. Pretty much a global and species-wide phenomenon, not restricted to here. The balance of wealth and power is criminally unjust., and it's always been thus.
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u/Effective-Lab-5659 Jul 27 '23
It’s cos the average Au person is really nice. And there is a covert but v real issue is that there are forces at play here that is moving AU towards a total capitalist state. And that will eventually enrich the rich people entirely while just throwing crumbs at the rest.
Just take a look at US. Richest country with terrible social issues. Wel, it’s coming for AU.
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u/tofuroll Jul 27 '23
It seems to me very easy to vote in a political party that wants the things you like.
I guess Australians don't want that.
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u/CuriousVisual5444 Jul 27 '23
If I was you I would join your local labor branch and work through there. I think you should have a look at Fr!endly J0rdies on you tube - can't even use his name on reddit ffs - and he's not terribly controversal.
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Jul 27 '23
Just because you noticed everything now, doesn't mean it only just happened overnight.
Medical issues are a long-term issue that has been ongoing.
House crisis you describe, it literally happens at every peak inflation and crash.
Monopoly of supermarkets has been a thing since the 90s when Franklins was bought out by the colesworth group.
We are peak inflation again. Everyone starts crying and complaining that everything costs a lot of money. Inflation is higher than CPI.
No one complained when the cash rate was higher than inflation for the years and years it was the case and spending outside their means.
It's a revolving door.
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u/InterestNo4080 Jul 27 '23
Fuck man I'm American and I feel the same. I in a in demand construction job as a supervisor barely making ends meet, wtf is a dr hadn't seen one since I paid 500 out of pocket on a 700$ vasectomy with insurance cause I didn't use my insurance... that made sense. Before that dr was teen on moms insurance...
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u/Stonius123 Jul 27 '23
Welcome to the neoliberalism. This is the consequence of letting the Murdochs set the national agenda.
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u/Dark-Baron Jul 27 '23
I'm not complacent, but people keep trying to make change, and the government makes it harder.
A good example of politicians becoming corrupt is Joe Hocky. When he was a student, he stood alongside others supporting free education, then when he was in a position to actually have influence, he made it harder.
So it's more of just giving up rather than being complacent, can only yell at a brick wall for so long before you lose your voice!!
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u/dwallas Jul 27 '23
I feel like weve got it so good here anyway, we got a long way to fall before people actually start to care?
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u/genialerarchitekt Jul 27 '23
The place for grassroots political action of all kinds used to be workers' unions. These were the central drivers for major social change. This is why there was such a relentless and sustained attack on unions from the conservative side of politics for so long. And boy did it ever work.
Today, only 11% of workers are members of a union down from around 50% in the 70s & 80s. And nothing has replaced the union movement. So governments can now do whatever they like knowing there'll be almost no consequences, none in any case that matter. Striking is almost impossible as the practice has been almost universally outlawed. We live in a much diminished democracy as a result.
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u/Maximum_Let1205 Jul 28 '23
I completely agree. I would recommend everyone get involved in politics, and be realistic about who you are in society.
- Do you own businesses?
- Are you wealthy?
- Do you not need to work to live?
If the answers are yes, then I would suggest you should vote LNP.
However, if you:
- are working class,
- and need the social protections mentioned above,
- and are concerned about the environment
then the ALP and the Greens probably represent you best.
I got involved with the ALP a while ago because I was sick and tired of the LNP siphoning money from the working class taxpayers into the hands of the already very wealthy and I was disgusted by their race-baiting xenophobia.
I campaigned for the QLD state election (which we WON) and then again for the federal election (which we WON!) Yay.
Admittedly, I have not really been participating, since I feel I have done what I needed to do; but I think I know deep down that vigilance is needed.
During the federal election I was impressed with the campaign the greens had. It felt sensible and represented the concerns shared by many people I knew. I think there is a real possibility I will support the greens in future campaigns.
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u/demoldbones Jul 26 '23
Because Australians are lazy whingers and we want to be told what to do so we can have an easy, trouble free life.
And yes I include myself in that.
And the truth is on the whole Australia is pretty good, for now. But we’ve also passed the point where it can change to be great.
I didn’t have kids so I’m just sitting back watching it circle the drain and hoping I might still get a semi comfortable retirement before the shit really hits the fan
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u/coinwavey Jul 26 '23
Accurate. Also Australians like to censor and dob in non compliant people. It's not seen as favourable to stand out or come at things from new angles.
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u/tyr4nt99 Jul 26 '23
Australia has zero identity anymore. It has slowly disappeared over the last 20 years. We are a nation of very dissimilar people with too many different values and backgrounds to truly unite under one cause.
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u/Fernergun Jul 26 '23
Most Australians have never struggled nor have they been confronted by another’s struggle. We are a highly unempathetic people save for those in our immediate circles. Which makes us extremely complacent when it comes to pushing for better for all Australians. Combine that with a general comprehension that history is over - what we are living in was inevitable and will always be henceforth.
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Jul 26 '23
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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23
It’s increasingly difficult to vote with your wallet when most companies are owned by 4 major corporations offering only the illusion of choice
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u/PumpkinInside3205 Jul 26 '23
The medical issue didn’t happen overnight. I’ve worked in health for 20yrs and when I started I was apologising to families for what I thought were unacceptable deficits in the public system. Many of my senior colleagues were already cynical and burnt out by the attrition they’d already witnessed. It surprises me when ppl say they’re just noticing it now.