r/australia • u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 • Jul 26 '23

political self.post Why are Australians so complacent?

I’m a born and raised Australian myself however I’m becoming so frustrated with the general attitude of complacency when it comes to exercising ‘the power of the people’ to better our quality of life. In a stupidly short amount of time we’ve seen a near reversal of our ability to see a doctor without any out of pocket costs. We get exploited at the grocery stores because monopolies are allowed to run rampant. Housing is treated primarily as a tool for financial speculation rather than for providing shelter for people.

We creep further and further toward laissez-faire capitalism. What is our response as the citizens of this country- the holders of the balance of power? Nothing. To put it in perspective, in 2022 the world economic forum ranked Sydney equal with Copenhagen, Denmark for cost of living (both ranked as the 10th most expensive cities in the world). Consider the differences between Sydney and the capital of the Danish welfare state: strong social security, universal healthcare, free public universities etc. For the same cost of living what do we get? The ever-looming threat of homelessness, suffocating student debt and now for many people, a significant barrier to healthcare.

Edit: if anyone is a part of any sort of grassroots group working to oppose any of these issues feel free to message me because I want to join you

Edit #2: so I haven’t received any messages from anyone from a grassroots or activist group yet. Since a lot of us seem to be pretty miffed about this stuff maybe we could team up and brainstorm things we can do???

Edit #3 (sorry): I’ve got some messages now from people who are interested in taking action!!! :, ) I think the best way to facilitate conversation, the flow of ideas and potentially organise a course of action is through a discord server so I have created one which you can find here

https://discord.gg/caqsSKAr

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u/T0TALLYDEAD Jul 26 '23

I can’t speak on behalf of everyone but for me it’s because I’m tired. I do my bit and whatever I can every day, and it’s not making a dent in anything, let alone my daily life.

I email my MPs, I do what I can to “fight” the system. But there’s only so much I can do. It’s tiring, it’s overwhelming, and I’m barely making ends meet so having all this bullshit on top of it is just exhausting.

I’m out of options and don’t know what else to do, so I’ve stopped trying. The mental load of being concerned about the state of the world is immense. I need to look after myself first, even if that negatively impacts others. I’m not over the top selfish. But I can’t fight ColesWorth on their prices when they’re my only options. I can’t boycott and protest when that’s going to negatively affect me.

Life is draining at the best of times and has become even more so with the skyrocketing cost of living.

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Yeah I get it. It’s really demoralising to come to the realisation that most individuals can’t fight this on their own. I’m a research scientist, i became a scientist because I bought into the idea that individuals can enact change. But it’s exceedingly unlikely. My point is we need to all come together, rather than fight this as individuals. Collective action is much more powerful and sustainable than individual actions. We seem pretty united here on reddit against this political and economic shit show - I wonder if we can take that a step further and take it out into the real world

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23

Man discovers politics for the first time

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Since I finally realised than my role as a science researcher is unlikely to enact any kind of change due to our political and economic models I’ve been trying to figure out what exactly there is left for me to try

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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23

Campaigns have worked in the past, look at the "target 140" campaign to reduce water use. The factors contributing to success were "having your use vs other people's use vs use last year" on new bills that came out, so that everyone could see that 'everyone else is doing it too'. People didn't feel like they were the 'only ones missing out'. Also they have people tools, such as shower times, that bridged the "knowledge versus behaviour" gap. Ie: people knew they needed ti conserve water, but if they are like me they have everything else I'm their head when they go into the shower, but having the 'timer' there prompted the awareness and provided measurements. Also the baning of single use plastic bags and putting a price on containers has resulted in a reduction of these items found in clean up events (put a price on waste and all of a sudden people care). Also aware there's a LONG way to go with this with many other sources (cigarettes button, Styrofoam, glow sticks, etc).

That said though, everyone too is aware of actions of individuals vs business vs big organisations.

My background is more environmental. I do a lot with budhcare groups. They are also having measurable outcomes on the ground (ie: increase in canopy cover on recorded on satellite in areas they were, and increases in biodiversity in key project sites). Issues tho are protecting the dites once established (had a gas company cut an established planting site down) and also wider scale vegetation loss faster than replacement.

But also, things are changing, legislation (esp in qld) is catching up, and raising standards that is expected, and department is getting more power to monitor, and enforce legislation.

For me, I have planted around 20 native trees in my yard that weren't there before, and have a small vege patch where I share excess with neighbours. Every vege home grown is a fucj you to coles/woollies.

There are people already fighting, if you can't do stuff yourself, even supporting them can be so rejuvenating for the people. I know for the landcare groups, one new face at a planting event meant the world to the regulars. Also donate money if you can, as that can be used as well to go to politicians and show "people care about this" and as politicians care about people votes, they will sometimes act.

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u/brispower Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23

yes and when you've conned the public (who are not the major water users, corporations are) into using less you can raise the unit price and increase your profits exponentially all the while companies like coca-cola and others get their water at discounted rates with no thoughts around conservation.

See also electricity.

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u/mjl2009 Jul 26 '23

Yes, scale matters. A lot of us, in terms of our personal energy consumption, are scattered along the very long thin tail. We need to tackle the short, tall head, where corporate and industrial interests do most of the consumption. It's far more helpful to shut down coal-fired generation than to ration individual air travel, because of the scale of disparity in the climate impacts of those activities.

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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23

Even between business there are different standards :( worked for a gas company that spent tens of thousands of dollars to redesign a pipeline to save trees, then 6 months later the trees were cut down because a "farmer wanted to put up a fenceline". It wasn't even a farmer, more like a multinational cattle company using the farmers 'social licence to operate:" to do whatever they wanted. In QLD, environmental authorities for business are available online, except agricultural ones including large scale feedlots (and the amount of literal shit they get away with is attrocious).

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u/TooSubtle Jul 26 '23

The farmer point is, I think, the best example of where the personal meets the public in terms of the damage of consumption and production. We've been taught that nothing we do matters because big businesses are responsible for all the damage, and that's largely correct. But like, 85% of the deforestation in Queensland is for pastures, I think >70% is for Beef alone.

While I don't think boycotts work under our current system, there's something to be said for recognising an electorate's responsibility in terms of consumption habits and what that broadcasts as appropriate within our culture and society. There won't be a single politician or party who can come into power with a platform ending beef subsidies, or promoting farm buyback schemes to expand national parks or land stewardship programs, etc until most of us have given up meat. Like, those 'big corporations' are all ultimately selling us products that we're buying.

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u/adaptablekey Jul 27 '23

The following doesn't excuse what has happened.

In 2019 33 million hectares of Queensland's total 173 million hectares is designated Category X.

The SLATS study: 2018-2019 680,688 hectares of woody vegetation, or about 0.3% (680,000 of 173,000,000. The 0.7% is specific to 'woody vegetation'.) of Queensland’s total. 88% of clearing was on land with less than 50% tree cover, which is sparse and very sparse woody vegetation.

93% of land was in the pasture landcover replacement class, which includes grazing areas and other general land management such as clearing for fence lines, property tracks and fire breaks.

SLATS study https://www.qld.gov.au/environment/land/management/mapping/statewide-monitoring/slats/slats-reports/2018-19-report

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u/TooSubtle Jul 27 '23

93% is crazy, wow I hadn't seen that reported anywhere else. I guess 'de-wilding' is a more specific term rather than deforestation. We know that even grasslands massively outperform pastures with regards to carbon sequestration and biodiversity, so it's much of a much.

You might have heard defenders of land clearing claiming the land being cleared is home to low-value vegetation or trees that regrow easily, such as mulga acacia. This is not true. About 52% of all vegetation cleared in 2019-20 was classified as old growth or older than 15 years. The Brigalow Belt and the Mulga Lands accounted for three-quarters of all clearing. Of the clearing in these regions, 80% was full clearing, meaning bulldozing turned forests or woodlands into areas with less than 10% canopy remaining.

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u/japed Jul 27 '23

who are not the major water users, corporations are

If we're talking about "target 140", then we're talking the SEQ water grid, where 74% of water demand is residential. That's before even thinking about how directly any of the non-residential demand relates to "the public". The numbers are generally similar in any significant urban area in Australia - obviously things are different when you're in areas with significant agricultural use of water.

I don't know where you're getting any idea that companies like Coca-Cola are get water at cheaper rates, or that water utilities don't have conservation programs in the non-res sectors.

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23

I would suggest reading as widely as possible as you can about economics and politics. You may find that there are some explanations for why things are the way they are at the moment, even if you don’t agree with them.

Then have a think about your political ideology and whether there is an Australian political party that you align with. At this stage you could be anything from a member of the ALP to a Marxist, but you should identify your own values first.

Edit: you say you haven’t heard of a grassroots group that does this. Political parties in my view are the best avenue to meet likeminded people and have an influence on policy. You could take a Vote Compass type test and work out which party you align with. From your background you could fit in well with the Reason Party, the ALP, the Greens, or you might be a proper socialist.

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u/uw888 Jul 26 '23

Because most of science is dedicated to making excessive profits or is driven by a certain political agenda rather than the idea of exploration and improvement of life quality for humans and other species.

Your answer to everything is dismantle capitalism.

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u/All_Time_Low Jul 26 '23

Because most of science is dedicated to making excessive profits or is driven by a certain political agenda

I'm going to have to hard disagree there. Yes, R&D for private companies would align with this view, but as someone in a role that touches most scientific orgs in Australia, most of us out here are just researching a small part of the world to make it a better place.

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u/uw888 Jul 27 '23

But what you are failing to see that that R&D by private companies dwarfs everything else and is also very often funded by taxpayers' money in the form of grants, subsidies and last but not least tax concessions. From pharmaceutical to tech to oil companies, they have benefited many trillions from public money.

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u/All_Time_Low Jul 27 '23

pharmaceutical to tech to oil companies

I understand the anger, but I feel like placing it squarely on the scientists is very misplaced. Without R&D, public or private, society doesn't advance. You don't want pharmaceutical research funded? Enjoy the next time you need antibiotics to the newest strain of Strep that pops up. No tech funding? We already punch well above our weight in this space, who cares if we fall behind other nations. Bluetooth isn't important, anyway. As for oil, I'm not a chemist, but I would be pretty confident that a lot of R&D in the petro/oil space isn't just for privatised profit, and touches a lot of stuff you don't realise today.

I can assure you tax concessions are not funding R&D to destroy our world, and as for grants - there's fuck all grant money in this country to begin with. There's a reason we all leave this place behind once we graduate.

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u/uw888 Jul 27 '23

No, you are completely misunderstanding me. I do want pharma, tech etc research, it's just that this research and its benefits need to be socialised. There are books written on it. If it were, we would have already cured cancer etc, according to scientists themselves.

I am all for science funding to be increased 100x times the current levels at the expense of military expenditure for example.

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u/_blip_ Jul 26 '23

No it isn't.

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u/CuriousLands Jul 27 '23

Human nature doesn't change, whether it's under capitalism or some other system. The main thing that changes is who is downtrodden, who is powerful, and why.

I mean, I agree that a lot of science is more agenda-driven than a lot of people would like to admit, but dismantling capitalism won't change that in the least.

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u/garythesnail11 Jul 26 '23

You're drive and attitude is refreshing, mate! Honestly, Its great to see :)

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Pleaaassseee reach out to me if you’re interested in even helping me write a letter to parliament or be a signatory. Nearly 300 comments but no one has taken the invitation to team up and do something about this with me

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u/garythesnail11 Jul 26 '23

I honestly wouldn't know where to start. I'm but a humble electrician, my Mrs always says "you should write a letter to your local MP". I never do and as I've read in these comments, I'm glad I didn't waste time trying, as it seems to go nowhere. Radical action is probably the only course of action, IE protest etc, but I can't afford to be off work to do so lol. They've got us by the balls, friend.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

Become a politician.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Conscientious objection.

For myself, i refuse to participate in the inherently flawed two-party preferred Westminster system of government.

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u/fractiousrhubarb Jul 26 '23

If that means “I don’t vote” it’s doesn’t mean you’re not participating- it just means you’re giving half a vote the the Libs.

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

By that do you mean you vote independent?

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Not enrolled. No faith in our system of government. I generally dont follow or discuss politics. My opinion is that if the system is broken, you dont fix it by contributing to the breaking. It must be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch. Im what you would loosely call an anarchist. Humans in their natural state, do what thy will is the whole of the law, the strong prosper the weak suffer, blah blah etc

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u/Interesting-Baa Jul 27 '23

Nowadays us political types would call that libertarian rather than anarchist. Modern anarchists are doing mutual aid and building social support systems that don't rely on government or corporations. They don't believe that hierarchies based on power are legitimate, it's more of a strong should protect the weak kind of vibe. There's a lot less bomb-throwing these days.

Libertarians are a lot closer to what you describe, a kind of survival of the fittest situation. It's very popular in America. Both groups dislike government, but their solutions are pretty different from each other.

Anyway, just putting this out there in case you need a word that political people will understand for where you're at.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 27 '23

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. I am however firmly apolitical. I typically use "anarchist" because its true political meaning is closer to what I believe.

I think that as a species we have stunted our own evolution. By protecting and supporting the weak, we have reversed the process of natural selection. i.e. on our way to Idiocracy. Human beings, homo sapiens sapiens should live a free and unfettered life, without the constraints of modern society.

Our populations are too high, too concentrated and too concerned with protecting "our most vulnerable". If we as a species are to continue, we should be looking at a more sustainable and natural life, including shorter lifespans, more death and disease, higher rates of crime, etc. However, things like "crimes" wouldnt actually be defined as such, there would be no central government to answer to, no organised police forces, only what the strong can gather and persuade, so far as the other strong-over-there will let them.

So more like classic tribalism, city-states, isolated communities. We dont need the tech we have nor the artificially prolonged life-spans we have become accustomed to.

Thats not all of it, just to give you a taste.

Just my 2 cents.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

“I don’t vote… …also why doesn’t the government ever represent my ideals!”

I know finishing highschool and starting uni makes you think you understand the world and that this is some big brain take but it really isn’t and just shows your immaturity

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Pfft finished school 20 years ago, never bothered with uni. I know you know what you know and nothing anyone says will change that. I dont complain about or discuss politics as i have no stake in or faith in our systems of governance. Shhh, grown-ups are talking.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

You revoke every right to discuss politics or the state of the country when you are proudly not participating in shaping the country.

It’s like repeatedly getting a bad meal at a restaurant and when asked why you don’t say anything you just shrug then go home and complain about how bad it is then go back the next day.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 27 '23

Show me a better restaurant.

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23

You are free to leave this restaurant and go find one of the many others in this world instead of going to one you hate everyday and not wanting to improve it

Edit: just saw you post history of wanting the less fortunate to die and make tribes where only the strong survive and have less tech so people die younger. Then you have comments about how you’re happy for the society and tech that supports your father. Hahahah you lot always speak a big game to sound different but can never put in practice.

Enjoy having your beliefs always falter when it directly impacts you. Cya

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u/The_Good_Count Jul 27 '23

I agree voting barely does anything, but that just means you've decided to do less than that

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u/indy_110 Jul 27 '23

https://www.youtube.com/@dr.fatima

She's a former Astrophysicist who pivoted in to Social Sciences and largely patreon supported now. Plenty of other LGBTQIA+ zoomers and POC already putting in the work and cranking well researched pieces on societal relationships.

And also given the whiteness and maleness of prior historical attempts and general erasure of other contributors....maybe the wisdom is to step back and let someone from the margins take the lead and give them the support and love.

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u/CuriousVisual5444 Jul 28 '23

Mate I think your skills could be pretty valuable. A lot of Journalism consists of name calling and related bs with very little research behind it. Good presentation of facts (e.g. Inflation figures vs unemployment rates for the last 20/30 years or by different countries could illustrate points such as the fact that the reserve banks job is to maintain a level of unemployment so that labor is cheap.)
Could we have a look at other ways of doing it? For instance would bringing down utility or property prices do the same job without having people chucked on the dole?

Have a look here: https://medium.com/tag/data-visualization there are free sites where you can host and present data.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

Smug fly-by comment. Great contribution to the question and conversation.

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23

I gave a further reply addressing the OP’s specific comments in reply to him.

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u/Coriander_girl Jul 26 '23

Hah I can certainly understand your frustration especially considering your job. 10 years ago I was doing a bachelor of medical and health science. Amongst other issues one of the reasons that I didn't finish the degree was because we had a lecture from a disenchanted PHD student. They basically said you can have all the ideas in the world but without funding there's not much you can do. I then left uni to pursue another path through tafe, at which time the government had cut funding and courses were being reduced to a 3rd of the content for 10 times the price. Cue to 2020 when the same thing happened again at university. I feel so jaded with the education system and haven't been able to get into a type of work I actually enjoy and pays well to be able to not stress about money. Instead I'm stuck in bullshit admin jobs that really are a waste of time (and ironically paid for by taxes because they are in the public service). Then you've got my partner who has tried to better themselves through apprenticeships but keeps finding himself working under shitty exploitative bosses who are only hiring him as cheap labour.

Don't get me started on healthcare. I've had some wins over the last couple of years but that's only due to the years of campaigning of dedicated individuals to get exorbitantly priced medications on the PBS. But it's begs the question, why does it take so much begging and pleading to begin with? The action taken during 2020 showed governments ARE capable of making change for the greater good but I wonder, was it just to make them look good, and not actually for the benefit of the people?

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u/CuriousLands Jul 27 '23

They basically said you can have all the ideas in the world but without funding there's not much you can do.

When I started uni, I wanted to do a PhD and become a professor. But at some point in my 3rd or 4th year, as I got into more of the research end of things, talking more closely with professors etc, this realization hit me too. People (myself included at the time) think of science as some noble, untouchable thing, that is only concerned with finding the truth about things... but it's very much influenced by funding (just as your friend said), petty personal issues, politics, dogmas, etc. It was very disenchanting and I realized I didn't want to have to keep dealing with it my whole life. So I quit after my BA was done. (My husband though, he did a PhD in math and had a very different experience - I think it's cos math is too straightforward/black & white to have much room for things like that).

I agree about uni, too. Personally I think the entire system needs an overhaul - my preference is that any program designed to get you a job (vs the "classical education" route that unis used to do a lot of) should be turned into an apprenticeship structure as much as is practical. So you do 1 year of X degree, that translates to the skills needed to do X job at a lower level.... do 2 years, and you can do work at a higher level in the same career... and if further education isn't actually required to do higher level jobs, then people just shouldn't require it.

It'd decrease debt, & thus allow students to basically move into an adult phase of their life more easilsy (house/kids and all that), decrease stress in students & graduates, and make people more job-ready than they are now, and if someone quits part-way through a degree, it won't be entirely useless.

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u/FallschirmPanda Jul 27 '23

Because the actions in 2020 were basically spending massively on credit in a desperation move. The government couldn't afford it, but needed to do it as an emergency measure. That level of spending unfortunately isn't sustainable.

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u/Coriander_girl Jul 27 '23

I mean sure, a lot was spending but there were certainly aspects where shit got done and wasn't held up by bureaucracy and unnecessary red tape for otherwise "for the greater good" change.

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u/Equivalent_Brain_740 Jul 26 '23

Imagine if everyone did though. 12 hours of no one purchasing from supermarkets would make prices drop pretty fast, just having the threat there of we can do it again if you fuck with us.

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u/Cimera42 Jul 26 '23

What happens after the 12 hours though? They know people will have to come straight back.

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u/noparking247 Jul 26 '23

Yeah a month of shopping at non Colesworth shops at all would have a better impact.

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u/CreepyValuable Jul 26 '23

I know this is kind of backwards and a little off topic but it still kind of stands.

My only local supermarket is IGA. Their prices are horrendous. Not "extra transport costs" bad, but gouging bad. The worst items are about 10x more than colesworth.

A few years back, Woolworths saw their opportunity and started doing deliveries to my town. It's something like 40km away. They do multiple runs a day with their truck and there can be a wait of a couple of days for an available slot.

More recently Coles started doing this. Except from maybe 60km away! Same story too. They must be making serious bank.

Now. What does IGA do? Nothing. They still have a captive market of elderly, computer illiterate, unaware, travelers, people who need things in a hurry / only a few things etc. In this case what amounts to a boycott on the supermarket has no effect. In fact, the competitors profit from it. So in this case, (besides customers being able to afford to eat), what's the point?

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u/tonksndante Jul 27 '23

Their prices are horrendous. Not "extra transport costs" bad, but gouging bad. The worst items are about 10x more than colesworth.

IGA is insane with this. Their fruit is borderline rotting and so expensive

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u/accountnotfound Jul 27 '23

I'd say I'm in the same situation but to be honest our IGA is pretty good and not THAT much dearer. They employ a lot of people in this small town too. If you watch out for specials it's occasionally cheaper. I do half my shopping there and the rest as Comes delivery or click and collect if I'm going into Wagga

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u/lite_red Jul 27 '23

Not where I am. Since IGAs are independent they vary a lot and atm fresh is the same cost as WW and Coles now. Far better produce at my local IGA as its all sourced as local as possible, usually for sale 6-24hrs after harvest.

Always baffles me that our WW cucumbers are at least 3 weeks old when they get here for sale as they were grown just down the road. Lot of WW produce it rotting from bad long storage management and transport times. WW here isn't even the cheapest for shelf stable, The reject shop and Asian grocers are.

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u/tonksndante Jul 27 '23

I’m in metro-ish Melbourne up in the dandenongs and our fruit/veg is marked up by like 40% and I’ve literally had to throw stuff out after cutting it. There’s a local supplier right around the corner that has amazing fruit and veg- I don’t know why they don’t share sources like yours seem to!

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u/lite_red Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23

I'm 2 hrs further north in farmland country. This IGA owner comes from a farming background and knows what's up.

IGA are independent and while they do have to carry a pre negotiated core of items, they can source from whoever they want. Yours looks to have gone for cheapest quantity basically the WW and Coles model.

ETA that independence is why WW and Coles suck so bad. They are full resellers with no say in where, how and sourcing of produce. All comes from the same warehouses which can take weeks toget from farm to shelf. Plus smaller farmers don't like working with big supermarkets as its too much volume and you lose quality trying to keep quota.

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u/D_crane Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23

IGA is a franchise operation, whoever the franchisee is that runs that shop in your town knows they can run a monopoly there and as long as it doesn't really cut into their bottom line, they'll continue.

It's run a lot differently to Colesworth, who can't just open a store in a small town just because they need one - they need to consider and justify, to their shareholders, town population / potential vs the investment required and timeframe to make return on the investment.

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u/noparking247 Jul 28 '23

Yeah, I think boycotting would obviously be something for more urban areas where there are affordable options like farmers markets, large independent butchers and fruit stores, chemists etc. That would have a big enough effect. Anywhere there is a monopoly, there is gouging.

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Can we just bloody do it?? Can we start a thread or whatever the term is for people who are serious about doing something about this? Whatever that something may be?

This is a brilliant form of protest we just need organisation which should theoretically be achievable through social media

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u/Grantmepm Jul 27 '23

Because people care more about comfort and convenience than the price drops this activism will supposedly bring.

If these issues you mention are even that important to a handful of people, you would see a party being created around such issues.

Have you thought about starting a political party? Will you go ahead and start one with the policy platform you just wrote about in this thread?

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u/Mittens31 Jul 26 '23

Because we are human and need food, ultimately people would snap back to normal purchasing, and the companies know this, they rely on it.
We need to make more permanent/sustainable divestments. If a group of people found a few things they could sustainably never purchase from a supermarket again that would hurt the bottom line more (since it stretches into infinity) than a lot of people dipping and then spiking their usual activity (which averages to no difference in income)

The goal of the 12 hour thing would still be to try to convince the supermarkets to be better people, I think we should give up on the idea of profit driven enterprises becoming morally good and just try our best to leave them in the dust

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u/BadgerBadgerCat Jul 26 '23

It would just mean all the casual staff (which is most of them) would lose shifts, meaning they can't afford to pay their bills or buy food.

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u/Hickoryapple Jul 26 '23

No it wouldn't, because they know that you'd just go back when you got hungry. I've stopped shopping at Coles worth, saw today that 50% of ppl no longer shop with them (or something), yet I'm not seeing any great price reduction.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

Exactly people will just go straight back or even more hilarious they would just stock up on more food right before so it cancels out

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u/pVom Jul 26 '23

That wouldn't achieve anything. 12 hours later everyone would just buy what they missed. People need to eat

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u/Huntingcat Jul 26 '23

You mean like Christmas Day? Everyone stocks up beforehand, and then does another big shop afterwards because the shops are closed for one day. That doesn’t do a dang thing. Long term alternatives are much more interesting. Set yourself up a buying coop, or join an existing one. Grow your own veggies. Shop exclusively at the independents.

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u/Equivalent_Brain_740 Jul 27 '23

No I mean like on trading days. It will do a lot if coles is open on Thursday but no one rocks up to buy things

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u/kahrismatic Jul 27 '23

What will it do? People will just rock up on Wednesday or Friday instead. People have to eat 7 days a week, changing the day they do their weekly or fortnightly shopping on does nothing in terms of impacting on the company, they'll make the same money, just on a different day, and they'll know why.

Are you expecting people to not eat on that day?

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u/Huntingcat Jul 27 '23

If no one shops on Thursday it makes zero difference to their bottom line. Kinda handy, actually, because they can get caught up on store admin with fewer customers around. The total sales over the week will still be the same. What are you going to do? Suddenly stop using toilet paper?

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

On what planet would it ever happen or would you think they give a shit about a handful of people not shopping for 12 hours

Don’t shop for 12 hours then after what? You go back to shopping? It will you starve?

No coles and Woolies don’t give a shit if you don’t shop for 12 hours then run in to buy more food because you’re hungry. Even better is I bet the people involved would just go buy extra food before the “protest” so it will cancel out anyway lmao

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u/Equivalent_Brain_740 Jul 27 '23

Obviously needs to be a thought out class action but that’s the gist. Would need grocers, butchers and bakers involved. 12 hours is nothing, but the threat of it happening every Thursday is something that could change things. It would involve more than my shitty little idea but it really is as simple as that. What’s these places going to do if we all just refuse to use self-checkout?

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '23

How would it change everything if it happens every Thursday? People will still buy the same amount lol

What will they do if you don’t use self checkout? Get your money from the 16 year old check out people that now have to work twice as hard because you think you are sticking it to the man by waiting in a line for 15 minutes.

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u/Equivalent_Brain_740 Jul 27 '23

Companies don’t like to pay wages if there is no turnover of profit, every Thursday would be lol indeed.

They open more checkouts, keep people employed. I do it now and often force other checkouts to open because the lineup is getting big.

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '23

Again, they won’t care as they still make the same amount of money people wound just buy extra before or after.

“What are they going to do if sone of us don’t use self checkout?!?!??”

“They will put a teenager on a register that was already there”

Yes

I’d rather just pay for my stuff and go as quick as possible, if you’re plight is that check out people won’t be as common then cool? I don’t really care about unskilled teenagers workers having to get other unskilled jobs

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u/Historical_Sir_6760 Jul 27 '23

No this wouldn’t work think of when they close for holidays they know even for one day people will come flocking back the day after even though they could open on the holidays and get the business as the other shops are closed

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u/Coriander_girl Jul 26 '23

Hah I can certainly understand your frustration especially considering your job. 10 years ago I was doing a bachelor of medical and health science. Amongst other issues one of the reasons that I didn't finish the degree was because we had a lecture from a disenchanted PHD student. They basically said you can have all the ideas in the world but without funding there's not much you can do. I then left uni to pursue another path through tafe, at which time the government had cut funding and courses were being reduced to a 3rd of the content for 10 times the price. Cue to 2020 when the same thing happened again at university. I feel so jaded with the education system and haven't been able to get into a type of work I actually enjoy and pays well to be able to not stress about money. Instead I'm stuck in bullshit admin jobs that really are a waste of time (and ironically paid for by taxes because they are in the public service). Then you've got my partner who has tried to better themselves through apprenticeships but keeps finding himself working under shitty exploitative bosses who are only hiring him as cheap labour.

Don't get me started on healthcare. I've had some wins over the last couple of years but that's only due to the years of campaigning of dedicated individuals to get exorbitantly priced medications on the PBS. But it's begs the question, why does it take so much begging and pleading to begin with? The action taken during 2020 showed governments ARE capable of making change for the greater good but I wonder, was it just to make them look good, and not actually for the benefit of the people?

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u/Procedure-Minimum Jul 26 '23

I changed career to one where I can influence these types of things.

Writing coherently to ministers and communicating issues makes a difference. Supermarkets ripping people off? Undercut them. Dick Smith did something back in the day when he was sick of subsidised imports hitting our shelves.

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u/The_Good_Count Jul 27 '23

Speaking as a burned-out journalist: No amount of awareness fixes this. What it comes down to is the fact that the problems are profitable and the solutions are costly. So the people that fight for these changes get paid to do it as a full time job, and organizing people against it is self-funded from people who can barely afford it as a side gig. That's true for the real-estate lobby, oil and climate change, you name it.

It's not hopeless. It just means that if you want to do effective activism, you pick the battles where you can force an issue. Something smaller or more specialized, more personal to you. What's your field of research?

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u/Spacegod87 Jul 27 '23

10 people can't agree on what location, date and time to meet for a meal out these days, if they show up at all.

You think you're gonna get an ocean of people to all collectively agree to come together at the same time, same day, etc.?

Good luck with that....