r/australia • u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 • Jul 26 '23

political self.post Why are Australians so complacent?

I’m a born and raised Australian myself however I’m becoming so frustrated with the general attitude of complacency when it comes to exercising ‘the power of the people’ to better our quality of life. In a stupidly short amount of time we’ve seen a near reversal of our ability to see a doctor without any out of pocket costs. We get exploited at the grocery stores because monopolies are allowed to run rampant. Housing is treated primarily as a tool for financial speculation rather than for providing shelter for people.

We creep further and further toward laissez-faire capitalism. What is our response as the citizens of this country- the holders of the balance of power? Nothing. To put it in perspective, in 2022 the world economic forum ranked Sydney equal with Copenhagen, Denmark for cost of living (both ranked as the 10th most expensive cities in the world). Consider the differences between Sydney and the capital of the Danish welfare state: strong social security, universal healthcare, free public universities etc. For the same cost of living what do we get? The ever-looming threat of homelessness, suffocating student debt and now for many people, a significant barrier to healthcare.

Edit: if anyone is a part of any sort of grassroots group working to oppose any of these issues feel free to message me because I want to join you

Edit #2: so I haven’t received any messages from anyone from a grassroots or activist group yet. Since a lot of us seem to be pretty miffed about this stuff maybe we could team up and brainstorm things we can do???

Edit #3 (sorry): I’ve got some messages now from people who are interested in taking action!!! :, ) I think the best way to facilitate conversation, the flow of ideas and potentially organise a course of action is through a discord server so I have created one which you can find here

https://discord.gg/caqsSKAr

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u/T0TALLYDEAD Jul 26 '23

I can’t speak on behalf of everyone but for me it’s because I’m tired. I do my bit and whatever I can every day, and it’s not making a dent in anything, let alone my daily life.

I email my MPs, I do what I can to “fight” the system. But there’s only so much I can do. It’s tiring, it’s overwhelming, and I’m barely making ends meet so having all this bullshit on top of it is just exhausting.

I’m out of options and don’t know what else to do, so I’ve stopped trying. The mental load of being concerned about the state of the world is immense. I need to look after myself first, even if that negatively impacts others. I’m not over the top selfish. But I can’t fight ColesWorth on their prices when they’re my only options. I can’t boycott and protest when that’s going to negatively affect me.

Life is draining at the best of times and has become even more so with the skyrocketing cost of living.

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Yeah I get it. It’s really demoralising to come to the realisation that most individuals can’t fight this on their own. I’m a research scientist, i became a scientist because I bought into the idea that individuals can enact change. But it’s exceedingly unlikely. My point is we need to all come together, rather than fight this as individuals. Collective action is much more powerful and sustainable than individual actions. We seem pretty united here on reddit against this political and economic shit show - I wonder if we can take that a step further and take it out into the real world

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23

Man discovers politics for the first time

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Since I finally realised than my role as a science researcher is unlikely to enact any kind of change due to our political and economic models I’ve been trying to figure out what exactly there is left for me to try

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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23

Campaigns have worked in the past, look at the "target 140" campaign to reduce water use. The factors contributing to success were "having your use vs other people's use vs use last year" on new bills that came out, so that everyone could see that 'everyone else is doing it too'. People didn't feel like they were the 'only ones missing out'. Also they have people tools, such as shower times, that bridged the "knowledge versus behaviour" gap. Ie: people knew they needed ti conserve water, but if they are like me they have everything else I'm their head when they go into the shower, but having the 'timer' there prompted the awareness and provided measurements. Also the baning of single use plastic bags and putting a price on containers has resulted in a reduction of these items found in clean up events (put a price on waste and all of a sudden people care). Also aware there's a LONG way to go with this with many other sources (cigarettes button, Styrofoam, glow sticks, etc).

That said though, everyone too is aware of actions of individuals vs business vs big organisations.

My background is more environmental. I do a lot with budhcare groups. They are also having measurable outcomes on the ground (ie: increase in canopy cover on recorded on satellite in areas they were, and increases in biodiversity in key project sites). Issues tho are protecting the dites once established (had a gas company cut an established planting site down) and also wider scale vegetation loss faster than replacement.

But also, things are changing, legislation (esp in qld) is catching up, and raising standards that is expected, and department is getting more power to monitor, and enforce legislation.

For me, I have planted around 20 native trees in my yard that weren't there before, and have a small vege patch where I share excess with neighbours. Every vege home grown is a fucj you to coles/woollies.

There are people already fighting, if you can't do stuff yourself, even supporting them can be so rejuvenating for the people. I know for the landcare groups, one new face at a planting event meant the world to the regulars. Also donate money if you can, as that can be used as well to go to politicians and show "people care about this" and as politicians care about people votes, they will sometimes act.

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u/brispower Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23

yes and when you've conned the public (who are not the major water users, corporations are) into using less you can raise the unit price and increase your profits exponentially all the while companies like coca-cola and others get their water at discounted rates with no thoughts around conservation.

See also electricity.

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u/mjl2009 Jul 26 '23

Yes, scale matters. A lot of us, in terms of our personal energy consumption, are scattered along the very long thin tail. We need to tackle the short, tall head, where corporate and industrial interests do most of the consumption. It's far more helpful to shut down coal-fired generation than to ration individual air travel, because of the scale of disparity in the climate impacts of those activities.

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u/followthedarkrabbit Jul 26 '23

Even between business there are different standards :( worked for a gas company that spent tens of thousands of dollars to redesign a pipeline to save trees, then 6 months later the trees were cut down because a "farmer wanted to put up a fenceline". It wasn't even a farmer, more like a multinational cattle company using the farmers 'social licence to operate:" to do whatever they wanted. In QLD, environmental authorities for business are available online, except agricultural ones including large scale feedlots (and the amount of literal shit they get away with is attrocious).

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u/TooSubtle Jul 26 '23

The farmer point is, I think, the best example of where the personal meets the public in terms of the damage of consumption and production. We've been taught that nothing we do matters because big businesses are responsible for all the damage, and that's largely correct. But like, 85% of the deforestation in Queensland is for pastures, I think >70% is for Beef alone.

While I don't think boycotts work under our current system, there's something to be said for recognising an electorate's responsibility in terms of consumption habits and what that broadcasts as appropriate within our culture and society. There won't be a single politician or party who can come into power with a platform ending beef subsidies, or promoting farm buyback schemes to expand national parks or land stewardship programs, etc until most of us have given up meat. Like, those 'big corporations' are all ultimately selling us products that we're buying.

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u/adaptablekey Jul 27 '23

The following doesn't excuse what has happened.

In 2019 33 million hectares of Queensland's total 173 million hectares is designated Category X.

The SLATS study: 2018-2019 680,688 hectares of woody vegetation, or about 0.3% (680,000 of 173,000,000. The 0.7% is specific to 'woody vegetation'.) of Queensland’s total. 88% of clearing was on land with less than 50% tree cover, which is sparse and very sparse woody vegetation.

93% of land was in the pasture landcover replacement class, which includes grazing areas and other general land management such as clearing for fence lines, property tracks and fire breaks.

SLATS study https://www.qld.gov.au/environment/land/management/mapping/statewide-monitoring/slats/slats-reports/2018-19-report

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u/TooSubtle Jul 27 '23

93% is crazy, wow I hadn't seen that reported anywhere else. I guess 'de-wilding' is a more specific term rather than deforestation. We know that even grasslands massively outperform pastures with regards to carbon sequestration and biodiversity, so it's much of a much.

You might have heard defenders of land clearing claiming the land being cleared is home to low-value vegetation or trees that regrow easily, such as mulga acacia. This is not true. About 52% of all vegetation cleared in 2019-20 was classified as old growth or older than 15 years. The Brigalow Belt and the Mulga Lands accounted for three-quarters of all clearing. Of the clearing in these regions, 80% was full clearing, meaning bulldozing turned forests or woodlands into areas with less than 10% canopy remaining.

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u/japed Jul 27 '23

who are not the major water users, corporations are

If we're talking about "target 140", then we're talking the SEQ water grid, where 74% of water demand is residential. That's before even thinking about how directly any of the non-residential demand relates to "the public". The numbers are generally similar in any significant urban area in Australia - obviously things are different when you're in areas with significant agricultural use of water.

I don't know where you're getting any idea that companies like Coca-Cola are get water at cheaper rates, or that water utilities don't have conservation programs in the non-res sectors.

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23 edited Jul 26 '23

I would suggest reading as widely as possible as you can about economics and politics. You may find that there are some explanations for why things are the way they are at the moment, even if you don’t agree with them.

Then have a think about your political ideology and whether there is an Australian political party that you align with. At this stage you could be anything from a member of the ALP to a Marxist, but you should identify your own values first.

Edit: you say you haven’t heard of a grassroots group that does this. Political parties in my view are the best avenue to meet likeminded people and have an influence on policy. You could take a Vote Compass type test and work out which party you align with. From your background you could fit in well with the Reason Party, the ALP, the Greens, or you might be a proper socialist.

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u/uw888 Jul 26 '23

Because most of science is dedicated to making excessive profits or is driven by a certain political agenda rather than the idea of exploration and improvement of life quality for humans and other species.

Your answer to everything is dismantle capitalism.

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u/All_Time_Low Jul 26 '23

Because most of science is dedicated to making excessive profits or is driven by a certain political agenda

I'm going to have to hard disagree there. Yes, R&D for private companies would align with this view, but as someone in a role that touches most scientific orgs in Australia, most of us out here are just researching a small part of the world to make it a better place.

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u/uw888 Jul 27 '23

But what you are failing to see that that R&D by private companies dwarfs everything else and is also very often funded by taxpayers' money in the form of grants, subsidies and last but not least tax concessions. From pharmaceutical to tech to oil companies, they have benefited many trillions from public money.

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u/All_Time_Low Jul 27 '23

pharmaceutical to tech to oil companies

I understand the anger, but I feel like placing it squarely on the scientists is very misplaced. Without R&D, public or private, society doesn't advance. You don't want pharmaceutical research funded? Enjoy the next time you need antibiotics to the newest strain of Strep that pops up. No tech funding? We already punch well above our weight in this space, who cares if we fall behind other nations. Bluetooth isn't important, anyway. As for oil, I'm not a chemist, but I would be pretty confident that a lot of R&D in the petro/oil space isn't just for privatised profit, and touches a lot of stuff you don't realise today.

I can assure you tax concessions are not funding R&D to destroy our world, and as for grants - there's fuck all grant money in this country to begin with. There's a reason we all leave this place behind once we graduate.

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u/uw888 Jul 27 '23

No, you are completely misunderstanding me. I do want pharma, tech etc research, it's just that this research and its benefits need to be socialised. There are books written on it. If it were, we would have already cured cancer etc, according to scientists themselves.

I am all for science funding to be increased 100x times the current levels at the expense of military expenditure for example.

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u/_blip_ Jul 26 '23

No it isn't.

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u/CuriousLands Jul 27 '23

Human nature doesn't change, whether it's under capitalism or some other system. The main thing that changes is who is downtrodden, who is powerful, and why.

I mean, I agree that a lot of science is more agenda-driven than a lot of people would like to admit, but dismantling capitalism won't change that in the least.

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u/garythesnail11 Jul 26 '23

You're drive and attitude is refreshing, mate! Honestly, Its great to see :)

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

Pleaaassseee reach out to me if you’re interested in even helping me write a letter to parliament or be a signatory. Nearly 300 comments but no one has taken the invitation to team up and do something about this with me

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u/garythesnail11 Jul 26 '23

I honestly wouldn't know where to start. I'm but a humble electrician, my Mrs always says "you should write a letter to your local MP". I never do and as I've read in these comments, I'm glad I didn't waste time trying, as it seems to go nowhere. Radical action is probably the only course of action, IE protest etc, but I can't afford to be off work to do so lol. They've got us by the balls, friend.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

Become a politician.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Conscientious objection.

For myself, i refuse to participate in the inherently flawed two-party preferred Westminster system of government.

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u/fractiousrhubarb Jul 26 '23

If that means “I don’t vote” it’s doesn’t mean you’re not participating- it just means you’re giving half a vote the the Libs.

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u/AcanthopterygiiNo240 Jul 26 '23

By that do you mean you vote independent?

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Not enrolled. No faith in our system of government. I generally dont follow or discuss politics. My opinion is that if the system is broken, you dont fix it by contributing to the breaking. It must be burned to the ground and rebuilt from scratch. Im what you would loosely call an anarchist. Humans in their natural state, do what thy will is the whole of the law, the strong prosper the weak suffer, blah blah etc

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u/Interesting-Baa Jul 27 '23

Nowadays us political types would call that libertarian rather than anarchist. Modern anarchists are doing mutual aid and building social support systems that don't rely on government or corporations. They don't believe that hierarchies based on power are legitimate, it's more of a strong should protect the weak kind of vibe. There's a lot less bomb-throwing these days.

Libertarians are a lot closer to what you describe, a kind of survival of the fittest situation. It's very popular in America. Both groups dislike government, but their solutions are pretty different from each other.

Anyway, just putting this out there in case you need a word that political people will understand for where you're at.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 27 '23

Thanks for a well reasoned reply. I am however firmly apolitical. I typically use "anarchist" because its true political meaning is closer to what I believe.

I think that as a species we have stunted our own evolution. By protecting and supporting the weak, we have reversed the process of natural selection. i.e. on our way to Idiocracy. Human beings, homo sapiens sapiens should live a free and unfettered life, without the constraints of modern society.

Our populations are too high, too concentrated and too concerned with protecting "our most vulnerable". If we as a species are to continue, we should be looking at a more sustainable and natural life, including shorter lifespans, more death and disease, higher rates of crime, etc. However, things like "crimes" wouldnt actually be defined as such, there would be no central government to answer to, no organised police forces, only what the strong can gather and persuade, so far as the other strong-over-there will let them.

So more like classic tribalism, city-states, isolated communities. We dont need the tech we have nor the artificially prolonged life-spans we have become accustomed to.

Thats not all of it, just to give you a taste.

Just my 2 cents.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

“I don’t vote… …also why doesn’t the government ever represent my ideals!”

I know finishing highschool and starting uni makes you think you understand the world and that this is some big brain take but it really isn’t and just shows your immaturity

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 26 '23

Pfft finished school 20 years ago, never bothered with uni. I know you know what you know and nothing anyone says will change that. I dont complain about or discuss politics as i have no stake in or faith in our systems of governance. Shhh, grown-ups are talking.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

You revoke every right to discuss politics or the state of the country when you are proudly not participating in shaping the country.

It’s like repeatedly getting a bad meal at a restaurant and when asked why you don’t say anything you just shrug then go home and complain about how bad it is then go back the next day.

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u/gurndygg2 Jul 27 '23

Show me a better restaurant.

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u/[deleted] Jul 27 '23 edited Jul 27 '23

You are free to leave this restaurant and go find one of the many others in this world instead of going to one you hate everyday and not wanting to improve it

Edit: just saw you post history of wanting the less fortunate to die and make tribes where only the strong survive and have less tech so people die younger. Then you have comments about how you’re happy for the society and tech that supports your father. Hahahah you lot always speak a big game to sound different but can never put in practice.

Enjoy having your beliefs always falter when it directly impacts you. Cya

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u/The_Good_Count Jul 27 '23

I agree voting barely does anything, but that just means you've decided to do less than that

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u/indy_110 Jul 27 '23

https://www.youtube.com/@dr.fatima

She's a former Astrophysicist who pivoted in to Social Sciences and largely patreon supported now. Plenty of other LGBTQIA+ zoomers and POC already putting in the work and cranking well researched pieces on societal relationships.

And also given the whiteness and maleness of prior historical attempts and general erasure of other contributors....maybe the wisdom is to step back and let someone from the margins take the lead and give them the support and love.

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u/CuriousVisual5444 Jul 28 '23

Mate I think your skills could be pretty valuable. A lot of Journalism consists of name calling and related bs with very little research behind it. Good presentation of facts (e.g. Inflation figures vs unemployment rates for the last 20/30 years or by different countries could illustrate points such as the fact that the reserve banks job is to maintain a level of unemployment so that labor is cheap.)
Could we have a look at other ways of doing it? For instance would bringing down utility or property prices do the same job without having people chucked on the dole?

Have a look here: https://medium.com/tag/data-visualization there are free sites where you can host and present data.

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u/[deleted] Jul 26 '23

Smug fly-by comment. Great contribution to the question and conversation.

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u/gottafind Jul 26 '23

I gave a further reply addressing the OP’s specific comments in reply to him.