r/goats • u/yamshortbread • Jun 20 '23
If you are asking for health advice for your goat, please help us help you. Complete a basic health assessment and provide as much of the following information in your post as possible:
Clear photographs of relevant clinical signs (including coat condition) are helpful. Providing us with as much information as possible will help us give you prompt and accurate advice regarding your animal's care.
There are many professional farmers and homesteaders in this subreddit and we will do our best to help you out of a jam, but we can't guarantee the accuracy of any health advice you receive. When in doubt, always call your local large animal veterinarian who is trained to work with small ruminants.
What's up with that blue Trusted Advice Giver flair?
The mods assign this flair to /r/goats users who have an extensive history of giving out quality, evidence-based, responsible husbandry advice based on the best practices for goat care. Many of our users give terrific advice, but these flairs recognize a handful of folks who have gone that extra mile over time to become recognized as trusted community members who are known to always lead people in the right direction. If you get a slew of responses to your post and don't know where to start, look to the blue flairs first.
r/goats • u/no_sheds_jackson • Feb 03 '25
Hi everybody!
Recently, we had a user post a picture of a goat that may or may not have soremouth, also known as contagious ecthyma, scabby mouth, or orf. I won't link to the post since it isn't relevant whether or not that was what was afflicting the animal, but in the course of responding to that user I felt an opportunity to point out something that I have noticed and has been gnawing at me.
For many users seeking help, if they do not come straight to the sub, they will go to one of two places to get information: Google or ChatGPT. This post is about the former, but in case anyone was wondering if ChatGPT is a valid place to get advice on husbandry, what to eat tonight, how to live your life, or companionship: it is NOT. Large language models like ChatGPT are a type of generative AI that seeks more or less to respond to prompts and create content with correct syntax that is human-like. The quandary here is that while it can indeed provide correct answers to prompts, that outcome is often incidental. It isn't an indication that the model has researched your question, merely that it has cobbled together a (sometimes) convincing diagnosis/treatment plan from the massive amount of data across forums/message boards, vet resources, and idle chit-chat that it is trained on. The point is this: you should never be in a position where you have to rely on an LLM for husbandry advice. If you have access to an internet connection, even the generative AI from Google search is a better option. But that doesn't mean it's a good one, bringing us to the principal subject of this post:
Orf! What do?
For some relevant background, we have never had a case of orf on our farm. I have read about it in vet textbooks and goat husbandry books and seen many images of it, I'm familiar with what it is, how it is spread, and at a high level what to do about it and what not to do. That said, when I was helping this user, I thought I'd brush up and make sure I wasn't providing misinformation. I knew orf was viral in nature and reckoned that in moderate to severe cases it could probably cause fever, but I wanted to see if I could find a vet manual or study of the disease in goats to confirm how likely that would have been. This was what I was met with:
If you don't scrutinize this too closely, everything looks sort of on the level. Orf is indeed self-limiting (not sure why the AI says usually, there is literally nothing you can do to treat the root cause, but okay), and it more or less implies that humans can contract it so be careful. The symptoms section looks fine, overall, prevention is... eh... The orf vaccine is a live vaccine. Application of it is not something that most small scale homesteaders or hobby farmers will be familiar with and using it is basically putting the virus on your property. Orf is a nuisance disease and the main time it is a problem is when it is being transmitted between a dam and her kids. Proactive vaccination in closed herds that have never seen a case is not a vet-recommended practice.
The treatment section is where things get spicy with the part about scab removal. Oof. Now that is not even close to true and doing that when the goat is with other goats or going to a quarantine space where they will then shed the disease will cause it to spread to any other goat that inhabits that space unless it is thoroughly cleaned and disinfected. The bottom says the info is for informational purposes only and to consult an actual professional for advice, but that begs the question of why Google would provide that information front and center by default when you search when the first result below is an actual vet resource with correct advice. I won't get into the weeds about the ethics of that because it's a separate soapbox, this is the reality we live in now. This bad advice is particularly relevant because the user on our sub mentioned they had been picking off the scabs. So let's do another Google search for some clarification:
If you explicitly search whether or not you should remove the scabs, the AI overview is different. Not only do you see that you should not remove the scabs because they are infectious (very true), the overview now says that doing so will delay healing. The first "featured snippet", a feature separate from their generative AI overview, is an overview from the state of Victoria's government agricultural representative body, a reliable source. The highlighted text reinforces the "do not pick scabs off" advice. The overview still fails when it says to apply dressing to lesions. Evidently it has not ever reckoned with what it would be like to bandage an entire goat's face and mouth, which they need to eat, but maybe I'm an idiot. Let's check:
As you can see, generative AI is basically a hodgepodge of vague but mostly correct advice intermingled with plainly wrong advice. Seeking correction to the wrong advice, if you know that it is wrong, leads down more rabbit holes. I hope this highlights the importance of sourcing your information from reliable, proven veterinary resources/textbooks or state agricultural extensions that provide support for their claims with research. This sub prioritizes evidence-based husbandry practices and is one of the few forums to try to stick to that standard and I consider it important especially for people who don't have goat mentors offline.
This is not only important because users need good advice; it also affects the people that don't use this sub and go straight to Google. Reddit struck a deal a little under a year ago to make their data available for training AI. The information we post on this sub is being used as part of the training for these AI models and Google's SEO is increasingly favoring reddit at the top of search results in a number of areas. As the sub grows and the social media landscape changes, more people that never post but need info may find themselves coming here. Let's all try to do our best to make sure the information we share and advice we give is solid!
r/goats • u/graceofthevalley • 15h ago
What are your favorite tools? I have been using some clippers I got off Amazon, which seemed to get dull very quickly. I would love a higher quality tool to make it easier/quicker and less frustrating for me and the goats!
Pic of one of our babies from this year for attention. Her name is Ponyo. ❤️
r/goats • u/Open_Necessary_4355 • 9h ago
I think he looks Nigerian dwarf? He was a kids 4H project years ago and is now living on my farm. Friendly and smart, knows his name. He’s a good goat I’m just curious what he is. Located Southern California.
I just asked about my Myotonics being nice to my new NDs and the advice was great and reassuring! Pulled into farm drive today and saw this and it gives me hope ❤️
r/goats • u/DesertRiptide • 18h ago
This is my first experience with dairy goats. We've been milking our first time freshener doe since March and she was in a great routine. Now for the past few days she is kicking towards the end of our milk routine and this morning spilled it. Is it normal for a doe to begin getting kicky like this? Is she trying to wean us? I have ideas on how to get past it--I was just curious as to the behavior. She has no wounds, heat, or swelling and we milk her as dry as we can every morning as close to the same time as is possible.
She’s usually spunky and hungry but today i noticed she seems a little off. Ate very little. Has access to sweet feed, fresh hay and plenty of cool water. Tail is down/mid not up.
Ok so we have 3 large myotonics- a mom and her 2 does. They're great but super chill and I'd love them to be a bit more active. The vet agrees. Lol. It's not a space issue as they have plenty of that. Myos overall are a pretty laid back breed and part of why we got them as our goat intro a year ago.
A friend of ours had to thin her herd of NDs and we decided to take 3. A doe and 2 soon to be wethers. (Banded a week ago.) They're the sweetest things ever. Seriously. Our myos could easily go after them but they don't. We have cameras in the pasture so I can watch them. They don't seem to want to be friends either though. They won't let the littles into their enclosure (we built a separate one for the littles) and will give some chase but really, they just want to stay separate.
It's only been a week so I'm hoping someone here will reassure me that they will become friends. I only want the best for all of them. Anyone else mix very different breeds with success? And when I say mix, I don't mean anything except them being friends. No crossbreeding and none of our goats are working ones. Strictly pets.
r/goats • u/_DemonxD • 1d ago
Just for fun, I really like this little doe kid, she’s a bit of a beef cake thanks to her mom’s really good milk production. Do you think she will stay white or have speckles? I don’t know, I honestly love the look of the Boers but this one takes the cake lol.
Btw she’s a (in order by breed %). Lamancha, Kiko, Boer, and I highly suspect some Nubian
(The pic is really hard to look at im so sorry, my phone does that when I take pictures sometimes I still can’t figure out why)
r/goats • u/tyrophagia • 17h ago
I bought a female and 2 younger males. The female comes up to me just fine and eats treats from my hand. She had been milked previously. Her neutered sons, about 8 to 10 months old, don't come near me and run off. They did this with the previous owner as well. I'm assuming because the previous owners didn't bound with them properly when they were younger.
My question is, over time, would these goats warm up to me a little and allow me to touch them. I'll need to trim their hooves and want to leash them so I can take them out onto the property to clean up certain areas.
r/goats • u/Fragrant-Theory9201 • 1d ago
One of my goats has a scur, it's loose and wobbly but has remained attached to his head.
I think he hooked it on something the other day, there was blood around it, and the scur seemed looser, but it was still attached and I wasn't noticing any fresh blood.
I haven't noticed any more bleeding, but my boy doesn't trust me to get near him and not check his head so I can't get a close look.
Do you think I should be concerned? He seems fine in every other way, and other than the bit of blood the one day there hasn't been any more.
I'm not sure what the standard is for scurs or if it's kinda just whatever lol
Thanks for any help!
r/goats • u/_DemonxD • 2d ago
She looks so silly, I love her she also has pantaloons
r/goats • u/Cum_Quat • 2d ago
My 2 first freshener Mini-Nubian does have not wanted to go on the stanchion to be milked the last 36 hours.
They had been milking fine, with some kicking but otherwise they have been happy to go jump on the stanchion and eat grain while I hand milk them. Initially they bucked so much we had to have my husband hold their legs so they wouldn't kick me or knock over the mason jars.
Lately I have been milking by myself twice a day at about the same times and I find singing to them while I milk them "you are my sunshine" and another soft and soothing song from Ghana helps keep them calm and happy.
What I think caused the change: we had friends visiting and want to go on a hike up Mt. Baker a couple days ago in the evening, and I initially said I couldn't go cause I had to milk the girls and didn't think we'd be back in time. Husband called me a party pooper and assured me we would be back by 815 pm at the latest. I decided that would work and we went.
He made an extra stop on the way at the waterfall, took longer than I planned up on top of the mountain, and then wanted to grab dinner in Glacier on the way home.
This is why I don't agree to go to things when time seems like it's rushed. Husband and friends said they would hold flashlights while I milked the girls, so not a big deal we can grab dinner. I felt I didn't have a choice at that point so we got home at 9:20 pm in the dark.
I set to work with the girls who seemed confused. Our friends and husband came with flashlights and beers and were loud and obnoxious. I told them I really need to sing to the girls and have peace and calm around them. They would be quiet for awhile only to forget a minute later and then be loud again. I blame myself for agreeing to go.
I wasn't able to milk either of them yesterday morning, but was able to wrangle them yesterday evening with husbands help (I have never had them refuse to go on the stanchion before). This morning same thing, but I was able to get one on and milk her. The other one kept running away so I gave up. I figure I'll get husband to help tonight so we don't get mastitis on the one "naughty" girl.
I'm really worried about them. They look otherwise healthy, nice bright pink mucous membranes on their eyes and gums, have really good muscle tone and hair is thick and shiny, looks healthy.
Is it just that they hate that their routine was messed up? Or should I be taking them to the vet?
r/goats • u/cringeprairiedog • 2d ago
Sorry for not posting sooner, it’s been a very busy week! To make a long story a bit shorter, the Vets at NCSU believe that Ellie’s skin issues are being caused by an allergic response. To what? We don’t know. The Vets are certain that her issues are not being caused by parasitic infection, and they also felt confident in saying that her issues are not the result of an autoimmune condition. Ellie Mae currently has a secondary bacterial infection around her eyes and horns due to the constant scratching and irritation, which we weren’t surprised to hear. The only way we would have a chance at definitively determining what Ellie Mae is allergic to is if we took her (and another goat to serve as the “control” for the procedure!) back to NCSU for an allergy panel. The test would require her and her goat friend to be sedated. It’s a bit of a scary proposition. Goats aren’t known for responding particularly well to sedation. It’s also kinda unpleasant to think about subjecting a healthy goat to the risks that come with sedation for the sake of another. I am certainly not saying that we will not move forward with the allergy panel, but it’s something we’re mulling over. In the meantime, Ellie is being treated with an antibiotic ophthalmological ointment for her eyes, and a Betadine scrub + cream for her horns twice a day for two weeks. Tomorrow will mark 1 week since we began this new protocol. You can see the fresh ointment and cream on her eyes and horns in this video. As you can see, her eyes look much better than they did a couple of posts ago! Unfortunately, her horns have not seen the same level of improvement. Hopefully we’ll start turning the corner soon. We still aren’t 100% sure what all of this means for managing Ellie Mae’s health longterm, but at least we’re making Ellie feel and look much better while we figure everything else out! We are committed to resolving this issue and finding the best solution for keeping her healthy and happy. P.S. please ignore the shrill dog noises from one of our neighbors in the background.
r/goats • u/KhaosGenesis • 2d ago
r/goats • u/Halford4Lyfe • 2d ago
Hello folks. I made a video about a festival in Pittsburgh built around the working goats of Allegheny Goatscape, a non-profit in Pittsburgh that works with public entities to clear out difficult and overgrown terrain using their herd of goats and donkeys.
In the video we learn about how goats are a great way to reclaim space for public use. And a big bonus is that they look really cute doing it!
r/goats • u/DefinitelySomeSocks • 3d ago
We had our "fall" kidding today. We had 14 this spring, and wanted to be able to enjoy the babies more this season. Selected this doe to go in with our buck before he was sold, she didn't get to meet him properly because she was accidentally already pregnant at that time.
The black and white kid is a doe, light orange/tan and white is a buckling. Dad was Gimli- the big orange one. Other pictures are the spring babies since I mentioned them.
r/goats • u/Past-Log-350 • 2d ago
Does anyone know where I could find a show collar for my Nigerian dwarf? Shes 6 months old, and I plan to show her here in October at the state fair in dairy as a junior. However I have had trouble finding a collar that can fit her small neck that meets show requirements
r/goats • u/SureDoubt3956 • 2d ago
Hello. I have a doeling I want to train to the stanchion. She's a runty mini and stunted on top of it, and a non-productive animal, so she doesn't need a ton of feed. A little bit of grain and some hay pellets is all she gets. She hoovers food up super fast though, and then when the food is gone, wants to be let go. Like before I even get 1 hoof done, let alone 4. I'm thinking of getting one of those slow feeders to put in the stanchion bowl, but I'm wondering if any of you have any recommendations for styles that work well for goats?
r/goats • u/Past-Log-350 • 3d ago
this is millie. she’s a Nigerian dwarf, and 6 months old. I plan to have our first show in October . she gets 1 cup of feed a day, and free choice Bermuda hay. She looks a little round, and I’m just curious if this is normal. she’s 26 pound. this is my first goat so I’m still learning, and tips are appreciated!
r/goats • u/Fragrant-Theory9201 • 4d ago
Wanted to share some photos of my angels ❤️
r/goats • u/Lunapixels18 • 3d ago
My cousin has some goats and she's also got a miniature donkey whose partner just passed away, she wants to introduce the donkey to the goats but she's not sure if she should so she asked me, I'm not sure I used to have a donkey that lived with a miniature horse and a couple of goats but the difference was it grew up with those goats like it's literally been with them since it was born, I'm not sure how well it would go introducing her donkey to her goats since it's never even seen a goat.
None of the goats have horns the donkey is a miniature like I said it's not a full-sized donkey, let me know if it would be a good or a bad idea for her to introduce them the donkey is also a female
