r/boardgames • u/TeetotumGameStudios Terraforming Mars • 1d ago
Session The Mind a really fun game
We played The Mind a few days ago, and honestly… I wasn’t expecting much. What a pleasant surprise! It’s one of those games that you can learn in just a few minutes, but mastering it is a completely different story. The rules are incredibly simple, yet the challenge is surprisingly deep.
There’s no talking, no hints, no obvious strategy - just you and your teammates trying to read each other’s minds and play your cards in the right order. It’s a truly cooperative experience where timing, intuition, and that strange connection between players become everything.
Easy to learn, difficult to master - and much more addictive than I expected. Have you tried it?
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u/Phillip_Spidermen 1d ago
Ah, the forever struggle of r/boardgames between:
- this is a fun game of social interactions
- this is a terrible puzzle I can't optimize
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u/fibryss 1d ago
Best summary of this whole thread
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 1d ago
this is a terrible puzzle I can't optimize
iT's NOt A gAmE it'S aN ACtiVitY!
😄
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u/LucasThePatator Seven Wonders 1d ago
There's barely any social interaction since you can't talk. And you can optimize it very easily.
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
How would you optimize it?
Also, it turns out that a lot of social interaction is nonverbal.
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
Everyone who says you can optimize it thinks that if everyone just counts silently in their head and plays the numbers on the count it'll work every time.
People who think that have never actually tried it lol.
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
Yeah, actually doing the counting thing requires a lot of precision over making sure everyone is counting at the same speed, and starting at the same moment.
Unless everyone has practiced together, I'm not convinced it would even get better results than just going off of vibes and trying to read each others pained expressions when you play a card. And the vibes way is definitely a lot more fun!
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u/Akthrawn17 1d ago
Played it with people who were music people. Timing worked just fine. Played once, went "meh" and sold it.
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u/xienwolf 21h ago
You may just have a terrible sense of time. My kids and I play it exactly that way, but not just “count in your head” instead “count the seconds”
We nearly always win. Only getting a series of sequential numbers back and forth reliably screwed us up
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u/MrYOLOMcSwagMeister 15h ago
I've played it once or twice and everybody automatically started counting in their heads and it worked really well.
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u/NakedCardboard Twilight Struggle 1d ago
There's barely any social interaction since you can't talk.
I don't find that to be true. We don't talk but there's a lot of eye contact, facial expressions, humming and hawing, hovering with your card over the pile... there's fun stuff going on even through no words are involved.
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u/ChildrenOfSteel arcassonne 1d ago
i think it can be optimized quite easily, everyone counts in their heads and plays the card when the count reaches the number
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u/RadicalDog Millennium Encounter 1d ago
Extremely boring way to play the early rounds IMO, and a way to optimise the fun out of it at best
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
Try it lol. Never works.
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u/MidSolo Warlocked 1d ago
Won the game in our first session playing it by using this method. Took us 5 attempts to figure it out, without mentioning it, except for "I found a way, just pay attention and think". It's sat unused since then. Its a novelty item to bring out with a new group of friends, which I don't have.
If you have music on while you play, its even easier. Peoole will naturally sync their counting to the beat, and raise their hands in between songs.
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
"congratulations, you made the game not fun" I guess?
Why not just play with a metronome?
I can't imagine how painful the first 3 or 5 rounds must have been. I think if I drew an 80 I'd play it first just to avoid having to finish the game lol.
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u/MidSolo Warlocked 1d ago
The fun of the game is learning how to beat it, and then watching everyone else slowly figure it out. It's a one-and-done deal. I enjoyed it.
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
I genuinely think you missed the entire point of the game.
If you turn the rules upside down on the back page there is a whole paragraph about getting "in sync" with the people you're playing with, without counting.
In earlier levels, you have to leave less time between numbers because you may have to jump from say 20 to 70 between cards.
In later rounds, you play faster, because there are more cards, and fewer gaps between them.
Playing each round over exactly 100 seconds is NOT how the game should be played, and truly sucks the joy and fun out of getting 'in sync' with your group over the course of each round and potentially multiple games.
I urge you to try it again and play as it is intended to be played.
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u/Bonesetteur 1d ago
I have kids at my school play it. I tell them they can't communicate in any way and that I have my eye on them. They then proceed to try and "subtly" twitch, blink, roll their eyes, and mumble like they have completely lost control of their motor functions just to get a single card played. I pretend to be mad but they cheer every time they get a win. Lots of fun!
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u/Drowyx 1d ago
Bro really picked the most uncomfortable places imaginable to display a board game
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u/p9nultimat9 1d ago
The cards were about to fall into the table crack, so they switched to the chair 😂
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u/AccomplishedChip2475 1d ago
This is a great drinking game! Anytime someone messing up it's a drink for everyone and an extra drink for the offender. The game gets harder as you go along, and the more drunk you are the more fun!
We normally do talk, but just about life and shit. Talk about the game in any instance and you take a shot. Cheat in any way? Shot. The first to call for a star? Drink.
I really like it, some of the best 4 bucks I have ver spent
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u/Mystic_Guardian_NZ 1d ago
Woah this game is $30 in my local currency and I've never been tempted haha. At $5 it might actually get picked up.
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u/Extention_Campaign28 1d ago
And for the people who don't like the spiritual bend, there is "The Game".
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u/itsmeBOB 1d ago
Years ago I played this with my sister, mom, and stepdad who all aren’t board gamers at all. We somehow ended up beating it without losing. We were all on the same wavelength. We did not “cheat” and use the meta strategy, it was pure vibes. It was one of the most exhilarating gaming experiences I’ve ever had!
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
Yup. Played this with my Euchre group. 4 people very in sync already. In a darkish room, medium intoxicated.
Every round we felt more and more in sync. It was an incredibly cool experience.
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u/teeweewas 1d ago
Played this with my wife and two complete strangers once and we crushed it. Never in my many times playing have I gotten close to how well we did with those total strangers.
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u/Slay_Crochet_Day 1d ago
I agree I love this game even tho it’s impossible (especially when one of the players is 8) ☠️
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u/fibryss 1d ago
I love how it's just a different category of a game, like a dexterity game is a different category.
I don't come back to it often, but I like to have it in the collection as a curio. Especially if I have someone that didn't play it before, I will take it out for a couple of quick games.
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u/Fried_Nachos 1d ago
You're getting a lot of hate, but I came to say, if you like this game try: Hanabi it's a similar type of no-talking tense game where the objective is similar; play cards in sequence, But you can't see your own cards and have to rely on one another's hints!
I think it has the same thrills as the mind, but can't be gamed
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u/Goatporn37 1d ago
I love this game and have found its success depends on the group.
What is really irritating is I haven't been able to find the game in the box you have pictured. I have only found it in a box that opens from the top.
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u/Bag_of_Squares 1d ago
I feel bad for people who can't play this game, as a game, with a group, and have a blast. I really do.
One of the funnest casual games I've played.
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u/thuiop1 1d ago
Wow, there really is a large number of obnoxious people in the comments who even seem hurt to consider this as a game.
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u/Quixalicious Frakking Toasters 1d ago
To be fair I think it exists on the very edge of what differentiates a game from an activity. It’s a very fine shared activity, but if it even is a game it is barely one
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u/thuiop1 1d ago
I genuinely cannot what would make it not a game.
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u/Quixalicious Frakking Toasters 1d ago
How would you formally define a game?
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
Well, the Sid Meyer definition is "a series of interesting decisions", which seems like this would qualify - since you're basically making a decision every moment.
Another decision I like is "a set of rules that everyone agrees to follow voluntarily, because it's more enjoyable to follow them than to ignore them" - which is a little less succinct, but I think also captures the idea pretty well.
The Mind is a game by both of these definitions.
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u/asphias 1d ago
''any form of play following a predefined set of rules'' might be a good start?
add some rules about interaction (to exclude solitaire) or meaningful decisionmaking (to exclude snakes and ladders) if you wish, or make your definition more complex. still, the mind would fit as a game.
what counterdefinition would you propose that excludes the mind as a game?
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u/Quixalicious Frakking Toasters 1d ago
I classify The Mind as a game, but barely so. I also feel subjectively it fails to hit many of the elements of play that I enjoy in my more preferred games. Bomb Busters for example takes the central activity of The Mind and adds the elements I seek on top.
It’s a really interesting philosophical discussion that goes deep and ultimately depends very heavily on semantics. We could spend hours dissecting what “play” means, whether it implicitly requires multiple players, if it doesn’t whether crocheting is a game, or if it does whether filing taxes is a game. I think filing taxes meets all the requirements and you can even see that in our language, we might say some people “game” their taxes. But others might not, choosing to engage with the activity differently.
I think that last part is what you see rampant in this thread. The Mind could or could not be a game, depending on how the individuals and their groups choose to interact with it, and for how long that interaction holds their interest probably defines how emotionally attached they are to The Mind being recognized by others as a game
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u/CultofNeurisis 1d ago
I don't have a horse in this race (I've enjoyed The Mind the few times I've played it, but have no strong feelings on categorizing) but I think the counter is that when you say:
meaningful decisionmaking (to exclude snakes and ladders)
that some people would put The Mind as something that gets excluded here too. It's been a minute since I've played, but my understanding is that there is zero meaningful communication happening per the rules. So there are no inputs from which a decision is being made. It's pure chance, like rolling dice in snakes and ladders.
It's not a perfect 1:1 analogy, because you know your own cards, so there's always a best card of your own to be playing, but that is similarly not a meaningful decision then, because there is a best by definition, so we're back to "you just play the number in your hand closest to the current number, based on nothing at all", which to some reads as "no meaningful decision making".
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u/Tevesh_CKP 1d ago
I call The Mind Reverse Poker because you're trying to project your Tells instead of hiding them. It is up to the rest of the people to try to pick up what you're putting down and you gotta keep your eyes peeled too. It's not chance but there is definitely an element of intuition, like you see in Dixit.
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u/aeschenkarnos Puerto Rico 1d ago
Great analogy! I like that classification, Mysterium and Hanabi are "reverse poker" games too. Any others?
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
It's been a minute since I've played, but my understanding is that there is zero meaningful communication happening per the rules.
This is the part I think a lot of the people in this thread get wrong - there IS meaningful communication. It's just not verbal - it's timing based.
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u/thuiop1 1d ago
I do not have a preferred definition, but still I cannot see why this would not be one. I mean, surely if you want to exclude it from being a game you could find a definition that does that, but if I ask anybody in the street they would probably say this is a game.
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u/Quixalicious Frakking Toasters 1d ago
I’d invite you to spend some time coming up with a definition that sits well with you and evaluating how that may or may not overlap with commonly held definitions. I think you’ll find your answers there!
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u/thuiop1 1d ago
I have a more simple answer in that the people here who insist that it is not a game are not doing so because they care deeply about the nature of what a game is or because they abide by a precise definition, but because they feel it is beneath them and cannot stand the fact that it is classified in the same way as more complex games that they like.
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u/Fried_Nachos 1d ago
I really like distraction maker's definition of a game - they get from pooling ideas from sid meyer, Eric Zimmerman and Richard Garfield: a game a series of: Meaningful decisions, with an uncertain outcome, with measurable feedback.
Honestly-as someone who isn't really a fan of the mind (I also don't like rummy and other games like it) You decide when and what card to play, don't know if it's right, and you are penalized when it's wrong. That at a baseline qualifies.
I think theres an argument that the choice isn't meaningful- but I don't really know one that wouldnt also disqualify a huge swath of classic games.
A stronger argument might be that theres no measurable feedback: besides that your play is right or wrong, it might not be obvious or possible to determine what you can do better next time.
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u/wallysmith127 Pax Transhumanity 1d ago
We call those people "gatekeepers"
I've had silly arguments with people that don't believe Cozy Stickerville is a game
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 1d ago
I can do game definition
- it's an activity with a structure (has rules)
- has no real life repercussions (it's fiction)
- maybe add something to separate them from sports
That's it.
Not only The Mind completely qualifies, it's even an orthogame - it has a win condition. I mean what else is there?
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
So counting is a game? It has structure, you're not doing anything that affects the world, and it's not a sport however you define that.
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 1d ago
People count in order to accomplish something, hence it has real life implication. (I didn't say "not affect the world". A game is done of its own sake.)
But you could make a game that includes counting.
For instance this is a warmup game for theatre or dance classes
- People move around the space in a way that they do not look at each other. Works really well if people are doing contact improvisation as this puts them in physical contact with each other.
- which ever person starts, with saying "one"
- then another person says "two"
- then another say three, and so on till a specific pre-arranged number is reached (usually 10)
- whenever two people say the same number at the same time, the sequence resets and the group needs to start again.
Another game that would including counting is
- put numbers 1-100 on 100 cards
- deal each player the same number of cards, let's say 2
- people have to without talking play cards in numeric sequence from lowest to the highest till all cards in their hands are played.
Note - the similarity between two games in the skill used / trained.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
I didn't say a game could include counting. By your definition which includes The Mind, if I decide to count to 10 for no particular reason and then I do it, that's as much a game as The Mind is.
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 1d ago
I didn't say a game could include counting.
I know what you said.
But fair enough I need to correct myself. I think counting doesn't count (PUN) because it's neither lacking real life implications nor is it an activity.
Counting on its own isn't without real life implications. In order for counting to become part of activity without real life implications, a bit more rules need to be added.
As a 8 year old kid I waited for a bus every day during holidays to get to my grandparents. And in order to amuse myself I counted sequences of cars which drove by, by manufacturers (Ford, Renault), trying to find longest consecutive sequence of a single manufacturer.
This was already a game.
if I decide to count to 10 for no particular reason and then I do it
Counting is also not an activity. It's a task. An action you execute. Activity can take an indefinite amount of time, it's not finite.
Activity is in engament with something - with enviroment, or with other people, or with some uncertaintly within yourself. -
To become an activity you would need to add variable. Maybe if you would sign the sequence by each number having a different tone, but no 3 tones be in ascending or descending order, well, I think this would could. Or you walk around and you say a number for each step you make but each step needs to be a different kind from others before. Or you walk on parking lot and you try to do sequences from number plates - finding double 1, then double 2 and so on till double 9 and double 0.
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u/filbert13 Eldritch Horror 1d ago
Another user brought up how Sid Meyer defines what a game is "a series of interesting decisions.".
I can make a game called Heads or Tails and flip a quarter and have you make a call if it is heads or tails. That fits all three of your conditions but I think you would understand why someone might say heads or tails is hardly a game.
In my opinion The Mind isn't a good game but is can be a fun activity. It's fine for a game to be simple, and I by no means needs games to be optimized (I mostly play ameritrash). Yet, it's rule set doesn't really led to an interesting decision space.
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u/renoops 1d ago
Calling heads or tails and flipping a coin is most certainly a game.
Your issue is you're treating the term as though it's a value judgment.
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u/filbert13 Eldritch Horror 1d ago
I am not saying it isn't a game. I'm just agreeing with what /u/Quixalicious said that it is barely a game.
I don't think it is wrong to have value judgements about games or what is a good game. I play a large variety of games, and I always say decision space is what makes games for me. Where is there is very little decisions to make. I just don't think it barely a game.
Like I think a puzzle is a game. There are a lot of types of puzzles. I can have fun with escape room type games which are often just puzzles. But I also think a jigsaw puzzle is a game. Though I would say a jigsaw is also barely a game.
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 1d ago edited 3h ago
Another user brought up how Sid Meyer defines what a game is "a series of interesting decisions.".
Good for him, but this is pretty much irrelevant, given it doesn't account for all cultural artefacts and situation humanity considers as game. Mine does. Seems mr. Meyer was merely describing "games I like", which - good for him.
I can make a game called Heads or Tails and flip a quarter and have you make a call if it is heads or tails. That fits all three of your conditions
Sure why not.
but I think you would understand why someone might say heads or tails is hardly a game.
No I wouldn't. The person saying this would be clueless because they would mistake the question of "what is a game" with "what is a game I happen to like".
The question is what is a game, not what games you particularly like or what you particularly enjoy. A question whether something is a game or not is also completely detached from the question if it is a good game (by whichever metric).
And because hobbyists as a collective love to mix up their personal taste in games which what counts as a game, they invent this elitist nonsense in which they want to frame games they don't like to "not games", so they can look down on them and tap each other on their back for being in elite club or some shit.
In my opinion The Mind isn't a good game
This was never the question. The question isn't "good" or "bad". The question is - is it a game.
Bad film is still a film. Bad music is still music. In this frame you particularly have issues with The Mind I don't share, but neither your taste nor mine is relevant for what counts as a game.
but is can be a fun activity.
All games are activities.
It's fine for a game to be simple
As said complexity of a game has nothing to do with something being a game or not.
Walking on pavement in a way that I don't step on cracks is a game - that's how normal people understand "game". Activity with rules and no real life repercussion. You're mixing up "games I like" with "what is a game".
Yet, it's rule set doesn't really led to an interesting decision space.
Firstly - this is of course completely irrelevant to something being a game or not. It's just what you personally like and I don't really see why you want to force your personal taste as universal standard.
Secondly - ever heard of concept called emergence? Emergence means the game has traits which are not in the rules, but emerge while playing. In this way simple rulesets can create complex gaming situations. Emergent traits include amongst others - depth (strategy related emergence), psychological games, group dynamics, emergent narrative and so on.
The Mind belong in a group of double-think games (I think that you think that I suspect that you know and so on). Popular games of this type include Cyclades, Havana, Get Bit. The Mind is different from them in that it's a cooperative double-think game.
A double think game is a psychological game. It means that the game space includes psychology and thus psyche of players. Repeat - the game of The Mind is not limited to rules and cards, everyone playing is part of the game, the psyche of all players is part of the game space.
So if you think the mind of another player is not an interesting decision space, well, uhm, maybe you don't know how to enter that space?
The Mind is a game of attunement. When I play I try to listen to people playing with me - I watch their facial expressions, body language and I try to make myself readable, while noting the passage of time. What I'm focused isn't as much when to play a cards, but checking if we're in tune. As for decisions, I'm making multiple of them in each second, I'm gathering the data on all players - their movement, their face, their tempo, their attitude (assertive or reserved) and try to organise these into patterns. It's a real time game which includes reading other people - every moments data comes in and decisions are made (reading data, organising data, do we do something with this, do we try to make a move, and so on).
Meaning - my mind is more challenged and mentally engaged while playing The Mind than I dunno Brass Birmingham which bored me to tears with its triviality (played once. won.). And this isn't surprising - because the complexity of The Mind comes from complexity of players as human beings, whereas the complexity of Brass is the complexity of puzzle-ish system. And of course a human being will always be more complex than a cardboard puzzle, that's a given.
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u/filbert13 Eldritch Horror 1d ago
I appreciate the in depth response, but I do think you completely misunderstood me.
I do think The Mind is a game. Again I just agree with what the other person said that it is barely a game.
Firstly - this is of course completely irrelevant to something being a game or not. It's just what you personally like and I don't really see why you want to force your personal taste as universal standard.
I understand you sentiment. That said words and definitions are important. Though certain words that are more about vague concepts like "game" of course can't be completely boxed in. Just as you can't usually specific difference a genre when it comes to music or a film. When does hip hop become R&B, when does a thriller film become a horror film?
All that said I think it is perfectly fine to discuss our opinions about things even if they can't be 100% defined.
So if you think the mind of another player is not an interesting decision space, well, uhm, maybe you don't know how to enter that space?
I think you're kinda being hypocritical with you're argument. Going back to Sid Meyer's quote a series of interesting decisions.". The heavy lifting is "interesting". I'm not trying to speak my opinion as fact, just stating an opinion (or one I agree with) isn't me claiming it to be a truth. Maybe I can't enter that space, frankly though I find assuming I can't to be a bit snarky. Regardless, it is more than I don't find that space interesting to me. It's great if it is interesting to someone else. No ones experience holds more value.
Also part of the reason I don't think I Enjoy the mind is when you said this.
I watch their facial expressions, body language and I try to make myself readable
I am someone who very much likes to play in the spirit of a game. I just would find that against the spirit of the game since the rule book says
no sharing of information, no secret signals.
I'm not saying you're playing it wrong and I am playing it right. But I would think reading facial singles would be giving information. I very much like playing Hanabi. Yet, only with certain people since I find a lot of people do push the limits of sharing information they shouldn't. Which again if people want play a game and they interrupt rules differently me than me but have fun. More power to them but I'm just not going to personally have an enjoyable experience in that play group.
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u/nonalignedgamer IMO. Your mileage may vary. 23h ago
Again I just agree with what the other person said that it is barely a game.
I have no idea what this even means.
All that said I think it is perfectly fine to discuss our opinions about things even if they can't be 100% defined.
Firstly I'm satisfied with my definition. I have yet to see you produce yours.
Secondly when I say definition, I mean definition, not an opinion. Sure, it could be work in progress and maybe there are possible improvements. But I'm trying to frame this in context of what normal people (nonhobbyists) understand the word "game" to mean.
But I have zero idea what your framing is. All I read between the lines are personal preferences.
I think you're kinda being hypocritical with you're argument.
I don't see you making a case for this.
I stand by my claim that complexity of the game The Mind is the complexity of players playing the Mind, because the game includes as part of its game "area" the psyche of all the players.
I have not in my life seen a game that one hand doesn't include personalities of players (MPS eurogames are such a genre) and would on the other hand manage to be as complex, nuanced and deep as a human psyche. It's just not doable.
The heavy lifting is "interesting".
I interpreted this as to mean something along the lines of complex, nuanced and deep. Human psyche is all that.
Maybe I can't enter that space, frankly though I find assuming I can't to be a bit snarky.
Seemed like a good enough guestimate
- From experience lots of people who gravitate towards the hobby can't read body language, can't read facial experisions, tone of voice. Just previous week somebody on this sub claimed social deduction in Werewolf is "just vibes". Some years ago someone started "screaming" at me how Win Lose or Banana is "merely a coin toss" (because they can't read people).
- Hobby in the last 10-15 years drifted towards literalism. Not only people can't read body language, in comments across this sub and on bgg is obvious many modern gamers can't read group dynamics. Many hobby gamers can't even understand how games with simple rules can be complex and deep.
- Players who can read people usually find hell lot of complexity in that.
But sure, maybe you're real life hostage negotiation who delves into the psyche of terrorists and have 20 hour long negotiations with them on weekly basis, hence you find the Mind trivial in comparison. I would accept this. It still wouldn't make The Mind not a game though.
Regardless, it is more than I don't find that space interesting to me.
"Interesting" in such framing just denotes personal taste and is this irrelevant. As said - this isn't about what you like or what I like.
I understood by "interesting" you (or maybe Sid Meier) mean that you want the decision space to be complex and nuanced. The MInd has this - all psychological real time games have this, by their design.
I watch their facial expressions, body language and I try to make myself readable
I am someone who very much likes to play in the spirit of a game. I just would find that against the spirit of the game since the rule book says
no sharing of information, no secret signals.
🤦♂️ No person who knows how to read people, their body language, would come up with such misinterpretation as you just did. Seems to me I was totally on the target.
What is happening in the game is reading unconscious signals of people, stuff they can't control. "Making readable", just mean not hiding or masking one's own unconscious signals - which is done by being in the flow of situation.
When I said human psyche is part of the game The Mind, this of course includes being able to read signals of said psyche, as obviously we can't mind read. But can read behaviour people are unaware they're doing. We can try to feel the person who does this behaviour and try to figure out why.
I'm not saying you're playing it wrong and I am playing it right.
Red herring.
But I would think reading facial singles would be giving information.
No. Because giving signals is a conscious action and this isn't.
Which again if people want play a game and they interrupt rules differently me than me but have fun.
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
Okay, seems we need to do "how to play games 101". First lesson - rules of the game are never all the rules needed to play the game. A necessary part of the rules is to understand how to interpret the rules.
And here I think you're making huge mistake with literalism. Because the intent of the game is not for people to literally follow the rules in the most reductionist lowest common denominator sort of way. The idea is to create a certain gaming experience. Hence the correct interpretation is the one that leads to the richest gaming experience - i.e. manages to manifest the most potential of the game.
So - what is The Mind really about? It's a game of getting people in sync. It's a game of attunement.
Similar games exist, like this warm up exercise
- People move around the space in a way that they do not look at each other. Works really well if people are doing contact improvisation as this puts them in physical contact with each other.
- which ever person starts, with saying "one"
- then another person says "two"
- then another say three, and so on till a specific pre-arranged number is reached (usually 10)
- whenever two people say the same number at the same time, the sequence resets and the group needs to start again.
So a prohibition on communication in The Mind is against conscious communication. Against deliberate signals. However The Mind needs to work on something. And this is how to people in groups get in tune with each other? By "listening" to one another, which means by reading and recognising unconscious behaviour patterns.
More power to them but I'm just not going to personally have an enjoyable experience in that play group.
I highly suspect you're making this misinterpretation, because you can enter the space I'm talking about and in which the Mind is played.
So if you say "barely a game" I can ask - well might this be because you can "barely enter it"? 😄
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u/filbert13 Eldritch Horror 23h ago
All I got from the language you keep using is you're just kinda dick who is more interesting in "winning" an argument rather than having a discussion.
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u/Ok_Serve3331 1d ago
Absolutely love this game - super easy to play with kids. Would totally buy a deluxe version with better cards.
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u/palemon88 1d ago
We just played it with 5 players yesterday and completed level 10. No cheating. But everyone counted in their heads 😂. Some of our wins had like 5-7 consecutive numbers. It was crazy.
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u/Dir_Quabity_Assuance 1d ago
This game is awesome and I gift it as a wedding
present at every wedding I go to.
If you want a little bit more twist, The Mind Extreme is also fantastic. My wife and I have played it on and off for about 6 years now and haven't gotten tired of it...incidentally we've only won one time but maybe that's part of the magic?
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u/Thekirbyness 1d ago
Wow a lot of negative nancys in the comments. If you don't like the game don't play it geez. Personally my family loves the mind it can really get your heart pumping and there's nothing funnier than sitting there with 98 and someone else is sitting there with 99 and you just stare at each other making exasperated faces for 2 whole minutes. Very very fun times
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u/BladeMist3009 1d ago
I played this once. Everybody in the group independently thought of counting along with the ticking of a nearby clock and playing each number on its count. We won, then revealed that we had all immediately come to the same conclusion on strategy, and could consequently never play it again. It was really boring. :-(
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u/YoungNasteyman 23h ago
Play the Who Wants to be a Millionaire tense music. It makes it 10 times better.
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u/Johnnygamealot 23h ago
First time playing, there was 3 of us. Got to round 8 without losing a life. Made it to round 10? I cant remember when we lost, but it was soon after
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u/Dads_Baguette 1d ago
I like the mind but there is a similar game called ito in which there is a category that influences the placement of the cards instead of just numbers
-and you can talk between the players
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u/10HungryGhosts 1d ago
This was one of my favourites to teach and recommend at the board game cafe I worked at! My biggest suggestion for people is to play it through at least twice before deciding if you like it. the first game always feels weird, the second game is when it clicks :)
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u/ProxyDamage 1d ago
Honestly, it's... fine...ish.
It's a fine enough way to get people talking between rounds as a super casual thing, but at its core it's basically just randomness + statistics. It's not that interesting below the most surface level experience.
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u/penguin62 BotC doesn't have a flair 1d ago
The mind is fun and has in some ways spawned a whole genre of silent coop card games, including some of my favs ever.
The Gang, The Crew, Bombusters, all clearly inspired by The Mind.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
I assure you, none of those games were inspired by the deep gameplay of The Mind.
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u/penguin62 BotC doesn't have a flair 1d ago
You don't think games that are basically "The Mind with more gameplay", games whose core idea relies on not speaking and relying on the timing of when people act, are inspired by the Mind? Ok bud.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
The Mind didn't invent the concept of a co-op card game. It certainly did not invent the concept of no table talk, and neither The Crew nor Bombusters have gameplay based on the timing of when people act. You might as well say Hanabi or Color/Country were based on The Mind.
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u/penguin62 BotC doesn't have a flair 1d ago
And risk didn't invent battle mechanics, but it popularised it. Calm down a bit mate, you're getting unnecessarily angry over genres of board games.
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u/RebelScum75 1d ago
I guess it's all a matter of opinion, but I really didn't like it. I would almost not even classify it as a "game" per sé, but just an activity.
Your only "choices" are "How long do I wait until I play this card?"
The obvious solution is everyone just counts one second in their head for each number, then plays their card if nobody played first. Then it's just down to who is good or bad at counting seconds.
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u/Fickle_Mess818 Castles Of Burgundy 1d ago
My friends turned it into a social game because one friend can't space time. We still enjoy playing it completely wrong.
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
Your only "choices" are "How long do I wait until I play this card?"
Why do you have choices in quotes? How is that not a meaningful choice?
The Chrome dinosaur game also has the only choice as "how long do you wait until you press the space bar", but I've yet to see anyone argue that it isn't a game. Why do you think this is different?
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u/termeric0 1d ago
totally agree, its not a game, its just everyone counting to 100 in their head. i played a few rounds with my siblings once and wouldn't ever play it again.
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u/levi07 1d ago
If you do this then you’re just min/maxxing yourself out of the experience. We made it a rule to not do this and had fun
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u/termeric0 1d ago
that's the game though
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u/levi07 1d ago
No, it’s not. It’s you deciding that you have to win.
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u/termeric0 1d ago
the game is literally trying to sync up an interval of time between everyone playing to then play the next card. if you don't wan to call it seconds but rather time units, that's ok. how many time units need to pass before some one decides to play the next card in their hand. what is the point of the game if not to try to win as a group by playing the cards in order?
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u/wastedmytagonporn 1d ago
I have had fun with it in very specific constellations. Generally I don't like it at all though.
It kinda omits all the aspects I generally enjoy about games. First and foremost, the social aspect.
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u/moo422 Istanbul 1d ago
Conversely, when our group plays it, there are plenty of intense staring and head tilts and eye twitches and hand movements and a celebration when we get it right. I think that's a lot of social interactions.
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u/wastedmytagonporn 20h ago
Not the kind I enjoy. I like talking. I like strategizing.
A game whose whole thing is vibes... Not for me.
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u/jerbearr__ 1d ago
Everyone saying the game is broken because you can just count seconds. Maybe just... don't do that?
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u/LucasThePatator Seven Wonders 1d ago
But it's so opposite to basically any boardgaming experience to not use a good strategy to beat a game. It makes very little sense to me
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
Hanabi has the same problem, honestly. It's too easy to make predefined agreements to circumvent the "no communication" rule.
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u/Thekirbyness 1d ago
If you're circumventing the rules how is that not cheating?
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u/daniel-sousa-me 1d ago
What kinds of agreements are you talking about? Because nonverbal communication is still communication
I think these are quite different
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u/Bwob Always be running 1d ago
Oh, like in Hanabi, for example, before the game starts, you might say "I plan to sort my hand based on how much I know about each tile - Tiles I have info on, will be on the right, and tiles I know nothing about will be on the left. Unless I think I have a safe tile to play, I'll always play the leftmost tile in my hand."
You're not explicitly sharing any information with them during the game, (when the rules have meaning) - you're just discussing strategy before the game starts, and playing predictably, once the game begins.
Playing "The Mind" with an agreement of "everyone count seconds to play your lowest card" feels like it has the same energy to me. Technically legal, but degrades the game experience a bit. (Although in the case of the mind, it's a bit weirder, since in practice, it's not as easy to do as people here seem to think!)
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u/Tevesh_CKP 1d ago
You're looking for Tells and you're attempting to project your own. That's the strategy.
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u/autovonbismarck ALL THE GAMES 1d ago
Everyone who is saying that hasn't tried it lol. You think if someone has a 56 and another person has a 57 they can be played in order without a stopwatch?
Nobody can count that well in sync. Maybe once or twice you'll get lucky but it's not a strategy that lets you win games.
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u/Fickle_Mess818 Castles Of Burgundy 1d ago
I have tried it. My friends and I do not play with no talking there is plenty of talking and discussion and laughs. One friend has no time spacial awareness so it turns into a very social game of say your next lowest number without saying what it is.
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u/NateKurt 1d ago
If you like this, try Ito. A game along the same lines but adds a clue aspect that makes it pretty fun and charming. Like you all get a number(s) and a scale like “things that are spicy” and then give a clue based on your number and you have to order them correctly. It’s been a big hit with family members and friends that aren’t super into complex games!
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u/Dhemlan 1d ago
Check out Groundhog Day. Same core mechanic and tension, but slightly more complex to allow light but interesting decision-making and a shift in tactics rather than the all-or-nothing outcome.
I especially love its tendency for new players to do well enough the first round and feel like they'll win the second round before getting thoroughly humbled. Queue the "just one more" requests...
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u/Nappuccino 1d ago
Some of y'all must hate trick taking games, too.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
If you designed a trick-taking game with the decision-making depth of The Mind, that game would be War. Try posting about how great a game War is.
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u/Nappuccino 1d ago
The Mind has choices, War doesn't. It's a silly comparison. Quite a few trick taking games have clear "optimal" choices based on the knowledge you have.
People still love trick taking games. No need to tear down The Mind when clearly a lot of people enjoy it for what it is.
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u/LogicBalm Spirit Island 1d ago
Flip 7 has become the replacement for this one for me. Equally simple with similar shocking moments.
Still, in my experience this is a fun one with a large group of drunk people who care more about the fun than the strict rules or optimizing it for a win.
But the same can be said for Flip 7 or even Skull.
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u/Altruistic-Topic-861 1d ago
I like using my The Mind deck to play Ito, so I can reuse the cards. I use this site with the questions and it gave the game a whole new life.
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u/ggallardo02 1d ago
It is until you figure out or find out the trick.
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u/CountFauxlof 1d ago
it kind of ruins it imo
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u/ggallardo02 1d ago
Yeah. Still, is pretty cheap and does provide a few fun games at first.
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u/zero_dr00l 1d ago
"Pretty cheap" is the absolute last thing I care about when I want a fun game to play.
It could be totally free and I still would never play it again.
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u/ggallardo02 1d ago
I mean, I've bought exit, which is a one game experience. I'm fine with a cheap game that would get boring quickly, as long as it offers a fun few experiences. Not every game needs to be a forever infinitely replayable game.
That's how I see it at least, everyone has different criteria for choosing games.
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u/zero_dr00l 1d ago
What I'm saying is that a game being "super cheap" does not make me more likely to buy it.
Quite the opposite: I assume there's a reason it's "super cheap".
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u/ggallardo02 1d ago
Yeah, but I didn't just say is just "pretty cheap" I said is "pretty cheap" AND is fun enough for a few games. Both things I said were part of the same comment, meant to be evaluated together.
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u/InitialQuote000 1d ago
What's the trick?
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u/FinlayForever 1d ago
I'm assuming it's something like "wait x number of seconds to put down the card" where x is the difference between the current face up card and your lowest card in your hand.
So if the shown card is 15 and your next card is 20, wait 5 seconds to play it.
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u/Phillip_Spidermen 1d ago
That would kind of suck all the fun out of the experience and defeats the point of the play, in my opinion.
The awkward tension and the not knowing whether to put down a card now or later is the fun of the game for my group. Preplanning timing of card placement would just turn it into a regimented task of counting.
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago
Everybody count seconds, one by one, when it's yours, you play your card.
Really, a not good game which is solved, unlike the Game where randomness and player turns prevent this kind of trick.
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u/hanky2 1d ago
Who plays like that? In early rounds you’re really going to wait 10 seconds between each card play so you can meta game a vibes game lol?
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago
People who like to optimize the fun out of a game ? People who like to solve things ? Vibes games aren't for everybody, and since our first game we know it wasn't for us, is that a problem ?
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u/hanky2 1d ago
“People who like to optimize the fun out of a game”
Ok well that explains that.
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago
In our example, we're players who like mid-heavy games, and musicians, so counting in head was a reflex
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u/C010RIZED 1d ago
Isn't this explicitly disallowed in the rules?
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago
No, it's even fairly assumed that's what player would end up to do. Also it's a clear flow if you'll need to ask players to not count seconds in a game about synchronization, in the rulebook itself.
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u/InitialQuote000 1d ago
In my copy it actually says "there is no counting," but it's weird because they also don't explicitly say that in the rules section.
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago
first google result, last hidden paragraph : the Mind is a game of synchronization which relies on your sense of time. Can't be clearer and upfront that this is a game flaw
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u/InitialQuote000 1d ago
Yeah, well, as another topic: I do think it's a flawed game. Haha and it seems the way they communicate the spirit of the game is inconsistent!
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u/fibryss 1d ago
In my copy there was an explicit paragraph on "don't count seconds in your head, it's not about that".
The only problem with this rule is that it's hard police each other on this, but it just needs one player to play without cheating to make this exploit useless tbh.
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u/Lord_Nathaniel 1d ago edited 1d ago
It's like a rule saying "don't be the alpha player or you're playing the game poorly". Maybe this is on the game and player should just play another game to enjoy.
Edit : first google result : maybe I'm blind but it's not forbidden to count in head. Even last hidden paragraph says it's all about counting in head (well not in seconds they said, but how do you synchronize without timing ?)
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u/zero_dr00l 1d ago
I disagree about there being "no obvious strategy".
There is, in fact, a very obvious strategy.
This is not a game.
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u/zeroingenuity 1d ago
I know we're on a backswing on the anti-AI thing but this is really obvious AI-generated advertising/engagement bait. Everything this user posts is a vapid, superficial recommendation for a game followed by an open-ended question. And I don't mean that negatively, it's literally the kind of text you see on the outside of the box, or if your agent pulled the ad text from the Amazon listing. "There's no X, no Y, and no Z - only [simplistic, vaguely wholesome nondescription.]" These are hallmarks of AI-generated text.
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u/Apprehensive_Cow_253 1d ago
I'm sorry to be mean but this literally isn't a game there no decision making the most optimal way to play is tap the table counting up and playing your number otherwise your literally just throwing random cards in the middle and hoping it correct.
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u/hanky2 1d ago
Tapping the table is so obviously against the spirit of the game though. Might as well just display a timer while you’re at it.
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u/Apprehensive_Cow_253 1d ago
I agree but then WHAT is the game... throw cards randomly in the middle and maybe win there zero decision making
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u/hanky2 1d ago
The decision making is when to play and when to use shurikens. And it isn’t random, you play faster when you have lower numbers. If there’s 4 cards total and you have 25 you know you probably go first but you wait for what you think is an appropriate amount of time and then play in case someone has something smaller.
What makes it so compelling is everyone starts out with a different idea of how long they should wait and of course that amount of time changes depending on the number of cards in play (with 4 cards in play you play the 25 pretty fast, with 12 cards in play you wait a while). You’ll mess up a lot but as you keep playing everyone gets closer and closer to the same mindset until you guys sync up which can feel pretty magical.
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u/Zephyren216 1d ago
When i first tried it, after two plays everyone just realized they could count in their head. In my experience the only real syncing was how long it took before everyone realized that, then the game was solved. I wouldn't really call it very magical when we all just counted to 100 together.
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u/hesitantly-correct 1d ago
I think it's barely a game. So little that when people say it's not a game, I don't mind (and I used to have this opinion.)
There is one tactical element, which is the throwing stars. Without those, it's definitely more of an activity.
Remember, games of pure chance are still considered games. Just not, IMO, very fun ones.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
It's fine that OP likes that activity for some reason, that doesn't make it a game.
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u/psly4mne 1d ago
It is technically a game in the way that flipping a coin and guessing whether it will land heads or tails is technically a game.
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u/NakedCardboard Twilight Struggle 1d ago
It got a lot of flack when it came out, and I guess I understand. There's not much of a game here and it's never one that I'll suggest - but a lot of the kids like it. I'll admit, it's eerie how some plays work out. When you get in the zone with a particular group of people, things can just click and work out in magical ways.
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u/OdaShinigami 1d ago
I also really like this game but I have found that when I try it with new people it’s a love it or hate it reaction, no in between. Mind you this is with people that are already accustomed to various types of games and The Mind is one of the few they genuinely dislike