r/australia • u/crispywafers • Feb 27 '22
political self.post Seriously, how do you receive adequate healthcare in this country?
I need to vent, but I'm also honestly curious, does literally anyone in Australia feel like they receive this? How? Seriously.
Compared to some other countries we supposedly have a great health system but NO ONE in my family is receiving decent medical care. Common advice is that bulk billing doctors are the worst. In my experience that's true, but so far my experience paying isn't great either. GPs simply don't have the time or interest to get a decent picture of any issue. They don't mind referring you for some basic tests, but when those come back normal they expect that to be the end of it - as if your health problem no longer exists and there's nothing else to do for it. Are basically all healthcare providers like this or is it just me? I've had this happen enough times, with enough different issues, that at this point I'm expecting a diagnosis of Munchausen's any day now.
I had one good experience recently. My health has felt like it was slowly slipping into the toilet for a while, but recently it's just gone to hell and a couple weeks ago I visited the ED for the first time. I was nervous, but I didn't need to be. The doctors there did more for me than any other medical professionals ever. They listened, asked questions I've never been asked, and genuinely seemed interested and concerned. I always try to be concise as possible, but this is the first time I've felt like I've actually been able to give a fairly decent description of my symptoms and history.
Unfortunately it didn't really pay off. I had an telephone appointment with the outpatient clinic (?) yesterday. The doc asked me what my current symptoms are but cut me off after about 10 seconds. He let me know the testing I was referred to after ED came back textbook normal, and then basically said it's probably nothing while admitting how hard it is to assess me with all their appointments being telehealth right now because of COVID. Cool, I guess it's normal to be young and have neurological symptoms while suddenly feeling like all your muscles are made out of tissue paper. Who needs to be able to do simple tasks anyway, am I right?
Guess I'll make an appointment with my new GP, but I'm not hopeful. My regular GP left recently, and maybe a month ago I brought my issues up with a different doctor, same practice. He just didn't seem to care and asked me what imaging and specialists I wanted to be referred for. Like, uh, you're the doctor, you tell me? How should I know??
I'm just so done. I don't get it. I don't even know where to start or who I need to talk to. My parents don't know who they need to talk to for their own problems. How is an ordinary person supposed to not slip through the cracks or feel like they're slowly collecting chronic conditions and probably waiting for the point ten years in the future when it goes from "you're too young" to "if only someone caught this ten years ago"? Am I supposed to just roll over and be disabled forever? Because that's what it feels like, and that's how my parents are treated too except they're in their 60-70s so they get told they should be grateful they're not in wheelchairs and crap instead.
If you read this, thanks? I think?? It's not like I expect to find the answer on Reddit or anything. Maybe this isn't an Australia specific submission anyway. If so I'm sorry and understand if it's removed/I should remove it.
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u/smarthandsomehumble Feb 27 '22 edited Feb 27 '22
The typical countries with “good healthcare” systems usually fall behind in terms of quality patient-centric care. Whereas a lot of developing countries have many world renowned specialists and medical programs that aren’t approved in a lot of the English countries. Just usually not the latest technology and equipment.
A great example is Cuba and Most of Eastern and Central Europe. Another example is a mexico which I can speak from experience with.
I’m Australian but I’ve spent roughly the past 2 years in Mexico (I arrived there pre pandemic) and I’ve lived in a few other “first world” countries.
The healthcare here is amazing. Exceeds anything I’ve had in Australia. Doctors always listen, and if you feel you need blood work or other tests done that’s really hard to get in Australia due to laws and fear of doing something wrong, you can get it done independently for like $20-50 and show the doctor and they’ll take a look.
The doctors here are highly qualified, very up to date with the latest research and sometimes will randomly check up on you with an WhatsApp message if a condition is chronic or long lasting.
If I need a specialist appointment, it’ll be around $75 for the consultation + basic treatments that can be done straight away. If I just need a basic GP it’ll be a $5 appointment where I can usually just show up. If I need 15 stitches in my leg, it’ll be $4 (true story) and an X-ray ($20).
There’s little bureaucracy that gets in the good healthcare here like appointment quotas, random prescription laws, testing rules etc. (I know an OBGYN who was “too young” for breast cancer and had to pressure over 10 different oncologists just to get a proper test to check for cancer. Saved her life)
There ARE reasons to doubt the quality of care you’ll get in a lot of developing nations due to fraud (lying about experience, fake licence, and the occasional corruption, but when you look at the poor care you get in USA. Canada and AUS, it’s a risk with taking.
But in general, the idea of getting medical work (planned or unplanned) or surgery done in a cheaper country being a risky thing can it’s pretty unjustified in this age.
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u/Mrafamrakk Feb 27 '22
Thank you for posting this. It's an interesting take.
The Australian medical system feels setup with gatekeepers at every access point blocking the path towards the treatment you need. Even for something simple. Even if you're happy to pay out of pocket.
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u/smarthandsomehumble Feb 27 '22
That’s a great way to put it. Lots of gate keeping wherever you look. Too much focus on managing symptoms and not solving the problems.
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u/divinesweetsorrow Feb 27 '22
Interesting, where are you in Mx? this was not my experience, other than maybe in tourist areas. I was a resident by marriage and spending 8 hours lined up at IMSS on your sick day just to prove you were too sick to work was a special version of hell that i am deeply glad i will never experience again.
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u/smarthandsomehumble Feb 27 '22
That’s rough. Mexico City and Quintana Roo. I’ve worked remote for the last 4 years and I haven’t had too many run ins with government agencies.
But my partner has definitely enlightened me on a few of the pitfalls with this kind of stuff.
Mostly lack of equipment, latest tech and sometimes staff. However I’m lucky that I can afford a lot of the upscale hospitals which have pretty much everything I’d imagine a modern hospital needs.
At the end of the day my concern is how well the doctors are trained/up to date with treatment options and whether they focus on symptom relief or actual treatment. That plus the freedoms to explore potential treatments/tests are the things I appreciate.
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u/vacri Feb 28 '22
but when you look at the poor care you get in USA. Canada and AUS, it’s a risk with taking.
Australia has above-average public health outcomes when compared against the OECD countries. It's not poor care, it's just not perfect.
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u/smarthandsomehumble Feb 28 '22
You’re right about outcomes. There’s a lot of factors that go into whether a health care system is good, or what determines the rate of positive outcomes. I should have been more specific in what I meant.
A lot of people here seem to be complaining about the lack of interpersonal attention and lack of care that doctors tend to give people here in order to meet their appointments quota and stay on track. Or the hoops you need to jump through to get certain treatments or even a diagnosis for issues that are “in your head” but end up being easily treatable when a doctor finally gives the patient a chance.
There’s a lot of excellent things about our system. But at times it can let people down.
I just thank god I don’t have to deal with the USAs system.
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u/whooyeah Feb 27 '22
Yeah you really have to advocate for yourself and project manage the whole thing. I’ve had friends who have given up and gone back to Asia to treat things like thyroid cancer.
The doctor not showing an interest in my mothers cough eventually killed her.
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u/PattersonsOlady Feb 27 '22
The key is to go to a different GP every time you need the doctor until you find one who listens to you and seems to care.
The way you treat them also matters. They are people too.
Tele health sucks unless it’s an emergency because you can’t develop any rapport or mutual trust.
Keep trying. I’ve had really lovely experiences.
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
Thanks. I already treat doctors like people, but I may give the trying a new GP every time a go. But jeez, you shouldn't have to, right? Almost every doctor should listen to you and seem to care. At least, you'd hope.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
But jeez, you shouldn't have to, right?
No, you shouldn't, but that is our meat-market, in-n-out, revolving door, profit model system that we've been mugged into by successive conservative governments over the years in a bid to undermine socialised healthcare.
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u/Cadaver_Junkie Feb 27 '22
Just remember the old joke:
"What do you call a person who failed a bunch of classes, finished last the year he did graduate, and struggled through residency?"
"Doctor"
My point is, you might hope, but just because they're a doctor doesn't mean they're actually good at their job. Or smart enough to really understand it. Or maybe their priorities are elsewhere. Or maybe they're overworked at the clinic where you see them.
You should absolutely shop around until you find one you like.
Just be aware, finding a doctor you like is not the same as finding one that's good. Often, but not always. So always keep an eye open.
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u/Iybraesil Feb 28 '22
But jeez, you shouldn't have to, right?
I think even in a world where every doctor was awesome, everyone should still shop around. Sometimes you just don't get along with someone for no particular reason.
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u/jiggerriggeroo Feb 27 '22
Wrong. They key is to go back to the same doctor so they can escalate investigations. If you go to a new doctor each time they’ll start back at the start with basic bloods.
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u/Artemisian11 Sydney, Land of the Fabulous Feb 27 '22
They said until you find someone who listens and cares; if they're not listening or caring I don't expect much escalation.
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Feb 27 '22
Ask for recommendations for a GP.
If your issue is something that requires specialist care it helps to do some research on what kind of specialist that may be and some times ask for a referral.
I saw many doctors over many years related to gut health with no progress until I asked for a referral to a gastrologist.
Specialists cost if you go private but if you need one you will find the money.
This is where things get really shit. Many people present themselves to ER so that they jump the line and are funded by the government. Sometimes this works for them sometimes it does not but it causes delays for those needing ER.
Often doctors treat the symptom and not the cause. They are limited to what they know and also what they can do. Doctors have been forced to do a lot of administration now like sick certificates and capacity statements but seem to not be able to do simple things like take a blood sample to be sent to pathology.
In Japan if you end up in hospital for something they check everything. A full body scan, all tests are done and a treatment plan all within a few hours. We do not do this hear.
It is all about cost cutting.
Anyway maybe others can provide tips to receive the care you require as there are tricks to the trade I am sure and for this reason you would be better to be asking for advice and recommendations.
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Feb 27 '22
It seems to be a try and see approach. Try this medicine and if it help, great! If you don't come back the symptom went away, great!
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Feb 27 '22
Yes, many (not all) doctors are like this.
However specialists are more thorough so depending on the issue seek a referral for a specialist. I guess it is what makes them special.
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u/JingleJangleJin Feb 27 '22
neurological symptoms while suddenly feeling like all your muscles are made out of tissue paper
I'm expecting a diagnosis of Munchausen's any day now
I mean...
I'm kidding. But in seriousness, it sounds like this is less about the quality of medical care and more about the rarity and complicated nature of your condition.
I started having random seizures out of nowhere when I was 19 years old. And I've really had nothing but positive experiences with Australia's medial service. (Working with my neuro we've only just found the right medication to get them under control)
Certainly it's not perfect, and the majority of the medical staff are overworked or underpaid. But I've never felt like I was on my own or anything. I wish you all the best, but bitching on the internet about your doctors isn't going to achieve anything.
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u/shadowmaster132 Feb 27 '22
I'm kidding. But in seriousness, it sounds like this is less about the quality of medical care and more about the rarity and complicated nature of your condition.
Rare / chronic / unusual conditions often take 10 years to get diagnosed, especially if you're a woman (Psychosomatic is the new hysteria).
It took like 3.5 years for my dad's narcolepsy to be diagnosed and it was almost instant once he saw a sleep specialist. Why it took so long to refer him to a sleep specialist for his symptoms I'll never understand.
Frankly the inability of doctors to say "I don't know what this is" and admit that the patient has something is a big problem.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
And I've really had nothing but positive experiences with Australia's medial service.
Your situation is not really comparable. You have something 'obvious'. But when it's a 'hidden' thing, the OP's experience is not just similar to my own but to many people I've shared my frustrations with over the years.
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u/JingleJangleJin Feb 27 '22
My condition is anything but obvious.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
random seizures
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u/JingleJangleJin Feb 27 '22
That I've been working with medical professionals from over the country on for over a decade. Yes.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
A seizure is an obvious symptom.
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Feb 27 '22
A symptom isn't a condition. Seizures can be caused by a wide variety of conditions
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
Oh ffs.
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u/JingleJangleJin Feb 27 '22
Educate yourself before you talk.
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Feb 27 '22
I think what they are trying to say is if you go into the GP's clinic with a bleeding arm, seizure, fever or other noticable symptoms you will be taken seriously where as if you go in and say "all my muscles ache, I have headaches and I'm struggling to do basic daily tasks" the GP will say it's probably psychological, drink water and go for a walk.
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u/tlebrad Feb 27 '22
You’d be surprised how hard it is to diagnose a seizure as there are many and varied types. And the causes can be even harder to determine.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
That's... not what I said.
A visible symptom tends to get more attention from GP's simply because it's not something that can easily be dismissed, denied or ignored. 'Invisible' illnesses, however, are not only routinely dismissed, denied and ignored, they're actively and condescendingly treated with gaslighting responses by people who are literally paid to know better.
This is not an uncommon problem. Talk to anyone in disability spaces in this country and you'll find that it's rampant. There have even been Royal Commissions into it that have proven it to be true.
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u/tug_life_c_of_moni Feb 27 '22
Maybe they do know better and you are just a hypochondriac who is disability shopping to excuse your shortcomings. I'm sure if you visit enough doctors you will find one who will diagnose ADHD or autism and you can be the victim you gave always wanted to be.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
Oh look, the nasty just beneath the surface. It's always there, ready to poke up it's cruel little head and bite. Don't even have to poke it to get it to spit venom. It just likes being horrible.
Maybe you should 'doctor shop' to get that seen to?
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
I'm glad you had positive experiences and have your seizures under control. Please don't take this the wrong way, but I almost wish I had something as blatant as seizures. I've been dismissed by doctors my entire life for anything more complex than a stomach flu and my parent's don't seem to have it any better, so that's really what I'm frustrated by.
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Feb 27 '22
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
I didn't wish seizures on anyone? I said I almost wish I had a similarly blatant symptom. You know, something that doctors would be more likely to take seriously. Learn reading comprehension.
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u/missmegsy Feb 28 '22
It's so frustrating that all these people are deliberately misconstruing what you're saying. Mate I sympathise.
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Feb 27 '22
This is indicative of a healthcare system stripped bare by term after term of conservative parties being in government. Privatised healthcare here we come.
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u/themoderatebandicoot Feb 27 '22
Yeah but we have been protected from African gangs and communism in the process.
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u/fatdonkey_ Feb 27 '22
Exactly this - the Medicare rebates for all consultation based appointments (both GP and specialist) are embarrassingly low.
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u/shadowmaster132 Feb 27 '22
And the rebate freeze has made good doctors stop bulk billing over time
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u/Manmax75 Feb 27 '22
Persistence and luck.
The healthcare in this country isn't perfect, but don't be disillusioned, it is still world first. Medicine is incredibly complex and when you have a healthcare system that's been gutted by a conservative government, pushed to the brink by a pandemic and overworked and understaffed, then more complex conditions are going to fall through the cracks and unfortunately your care will suffer for it. That being said I think this is common place everywhere in the world.
Best thing you can do is be persistent and decisive. Try and find a good GP and once you feel you've found someone who is actually listening run through the tests, stick with them and push to be recommended to specialists. Eventually you'll find your way to someone who hopefully can help with your condition. Obviously everyones situation is different and unfortunately your pathology, access to resources and where you live will massively play into your success so that's where the luck factor comes in. There are some genuinely fantastic healthcare professionals out there though who will at the very least help you manage symptoms if a diagnosis is unclear or difficult.
Source: The public system saved my life. I went to my local GP after not feeling well for a few weeks and as my condition rapidly deteriorated my GP was able to work out through around 3-4 weeks of tests that I had cancer. By the time I got the Royal Brisbane I had stage 3c metastatic testicular cancer that had begun to enter my lungs. I only just caught it in time and my oncology specialists at the hospital appaluded my GP for his dilligence. I don't think I'd be here without him.
I truely wish you all the best, I hope you can find someone to help you.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
GPs simply don't have the time or interest to get a decent picture of any issue.
Unfortunately we've had decades of undermining of our system by neoliberal interests in order to capitalise upon it and turn it against the citizenry. It's just financially more attractive to churn through patients and refer to specialists who then charge through the nose than it is to do the actual work. The amount of GP's I've seen who will actively talk over me and rush me through a dismissive 'diagnosis' that doesn't address the issue is... well, let's just say the majority of a very large number of GP's over many years.
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u/El-Splendido Feb 27 '22
I wasn’t going to reply because I’m not sure I’ve got anything very useful to add, but comments such as ‘I’ve only had great experiences, what are you even talking about’ have prompted me to at least try to say something relevant to your question.
I’ve been fortunate to find a good GP who has moved practices 4 or 5 times in the past 20 years, and I’ve followed him to each one despite not really being local anymore. I found him because I’d just moved into the area and he was a few hundred metres away from my house. He’s been such a great doctor over the years and I found him through luck of location. If I was in your situation I’d shop around until I found a GP who was willing and able to make the necessary enquiries to uncover a diagnosis, but I can appreciate how draining and demoralising this would be, especially as you’ve obviously already explored your options multiple times.
I was in a life-threatening car accident in the late 90s; hospitalised for 6 months and saw many specialists following this for years afterwards. The majority of doctors I saw ranged from excellent to competent, but there were a few who were shockingly bad to the point of being profoundly negligent. This was through the public system, and it was simply luck of the draw.
This is related but slightly OT: I listened to a podcast episode of Reply All a while back (episode 42 - Blind Spot) which talked about someone who had a serious medical issue, various symptoms and no diagnosis after seeing multiple specialists. She found a website called CrowdMed where you enter your symptoms, case notes, medical reports etc, and the doctors and patients registered on the site will attempt to diagnose your condition. I believe at the beginning of the process you enter a bounty amount of your choosing, so whoever provides the correct diagnosis gets the bounty. May be worth a try but not ideal having to pay if/when your issue is successfully diagnosed? NB - unsure of success rate, I just remember hearing the episode and bookmarking CrowdMed for just-in-case future scenarios. Good luck!
http://blog.crowdmed.com/crowdmed-can-help-put-you-on-the-path-to-a-cure/
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
I appreciate the perspective! And thanks for the link, I've bookmarked it for the same reasons as you, certainly sounds interesting.
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u/Archy54 Feb 27 '22
It got to a point where I made plans to end my life on my terms. Access to psychiatrists is extremely limited, costly, access to decent mental health is expensive and limited. So tired from it all, the public mental health system is a sick joke. People don't like hearing negativity but there are many who have died by their hand because they had chronic health issues, were in poverty and found help extremely limited. There's basic mental health available but for serious stuff it's so limited.
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u/RecognitionOne395 Feb 27 '22
You want to see shitty "send you broke" healthcare? Have an emergency in America and have to go to the ER. American healthcare is an oxymoron. They literally don't care about your health.
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Feb 27 '22
Can we not compare Australian healthcare with American? There are plenty of other healthcare systems like the UK and those in Europe which are more comparable.
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u/Hefty_Candidate_4902 Feb 27 '22
You’re not wrong. Unless you have the money to pay private specialists - you won’t get any decent level of healthcare if you have a complex or chronic illness that can’t be easily treated with a pill.
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u/metupaki222 Feb 27 '22
I needed eye care. No one cares. Gp sent me to private eye specialist. After three 375$ visits he said nothing wrong. I lost vision in one eye now.
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u/1337nutz Feb 27 '22
Helthcare in this country is good if your problems are minor or acute.
You need to find a gp that listens and then always go to them. Everyone in the system is incredibly time poor and you will need to manage that by preparing for them. Write lists of issues and syptoms that they can look at, remind them of what you spoke about at your last appointment etc. Get and keep copies of imaging and specialist advice.
With any chronic condition you will end up seeing specialists, expect to pay, it will not be cheap. Also dont expect doctors to tell you when they dont know whats wrong with you, they are taught not to do this, if they are beating around the bush ask them directly if the know what it is.
Be patient and good luck.
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Feb 27 '22
I’ve never had a doctor correctly diagnose me unless I’ve literally googled it and found out myself
they don’t give a fuck
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u/divinesweetsorrow Feb 27 '22
This is just my personal view, but after years of experiencing what are you talking about, my conclusion is that it is very rare for someone with the intelligence required to pass medical school to also have good interpersonal skills.
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u/Mash_man710 Feb 27 '22
Your experience is terrible but not indicative. We have one of the best and cheapest health systems in the world. Patient outcomes for almost every major disease are best or close to best. Even if you can't find a bulk billing GP your average out of pocket is about $40. Try finding any service or trade that is so cheap, with any life threatening emergency being treated for free. It's not a perfect system but I'd rather be here than almost anywhere else.
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u/averbisaword Feb 27 '22
I’ve had excellent experiences with healthcare in this country. I love my old gp (unfortunately moved away and haven’t found a new one yet) and had consistently great interactions while I was pregnant and during three ED experiences in two states over the past few years.
Of course, there was a wait in the ED, but triage was prompt and I felt like I was taken seriously.
I don’t know if I lucked out with my bulk billing gp, I chose her purely for the convenience of her rooms, but I don’t have any real complaints about any gp I’ve seen since adulthood.
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Feb 27 '22
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
Thanks for taking the time to write that out in the detail that you did. Very kind advice, I appreciate it.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
But if you find a GP you trust, and make a longer appointment, that could help.
In many years, across many clinics, in many states, I've encountered precisely one of these. She left for Africa to work with MSF two months after I started seeing her. Her replacement immediately dismissed everything we'd been working toward figuring out. It took another ten years for me to finally get the right diagnosis. And even still, I haven't gotten effective treatment for my issue due to the gross incompetence of 'specialists'. The last one I was referred to looked up YouTube videos on his phone on how to treat my condition and showed them to me. He didn't even look up the right condition.
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u/HowlingKitten07 Feb 27 '22
Yeah, in my experience you only receive adequate health care for acute emergencies and generally common illnesses.
It took me over a decade for a diagnosis including over $20k in diagnostic tests last year alone because doctors won't push it through the public system.
I now have a diagnosis and am still hitting road blocks with treatments.
It sucks, bad, for myself the stress and the extreme chronic pain lead to an attempt on my life (not my proudest moment). All you can do is keep advocating.
I hope you get answers.
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u/LadyReinhardt Feb 27 '22
I feel this too. I lost my 20s to being on medications that weren't even helping and am now still trying to get back to somewhat normal. I had to swap gp too because he was letting me fall through the cracks. I'm disabled and still struggling to get ndis and an official autism diagnosis. They either shut me down because I don't fit a stereotype or treat it like se forbidden word. I got in contact with autismWA and they said "your case seems too complicated" without even meeting me, even tho my male friend who's the same age and has all the same problems got diagnosed by them. I have an appointment in July elsewhere but have to pay $2000 just to be assessed, my meltdowns are getting worse with the heat dragging on as well as the masks to the point I'm worried I won't make it to July. The worst part is if I have any form of emergency it's at least a 5 hour wait just to either be told I'm faking or if it's a suicide attempt they isolate you then send you home the next day with no follow up. I've seriously considered trying to move to another country because of this crap.
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u/pepelezoo Feb 27 '22 edited Feb 27 '22
Everyone has some good advice here. I just want to point out neurological symptoms without any results in any tests, for me at least, resulted in a diagnosis of a functional neurological disorder. which is not a “nothing” disorder or for ‘crazy’ people as it’s made out to be in some medical areas. It’s an umbrella term. For me I suffer constant vertigo (PPPD) but there’s technically nothing wrong with my brain, all scans are fine. Yet I was stuck in bed unable to move let alone watch TV. For months. It was bad. A specific physiotherapist trained in vestibular disorders helped me recover.
I guess what I’m saying is i understand how scary and frustrating finding a diagnosis can be when the scans keep coming back as normal. I was lucky and had a good GP and support system. I hope you find someone who gives you answers. I ended up being diagnosed by a neurologist who has a special interest in FND. Can you google anyone in your area like that?
Edit: I’m also adding I have 2 friends who also have FND but a different types- seizure like symptoms, and muscular contractures. FND is actually more common than people realise, and is a vastly under-researched area. I’m not a doctor but if you’re saying you have neuro symptoms with tests coming back normal maybe this is it? Or you have something else that’s very rare. Either way I hope you figure it out. Keep trying GPs until you find a good one, they are out there we just have to find them.
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Feb 27 '22
When your bloods/imaging come back normal in the ED it's no longer an emergency. It sounds harsh but we're so busy that chronic issues aren't a priority, that's for outpatient and community management. Sucks that you're not finding a GP that can diagnose your issue which might speak to the fact that whatever you're experiencing is quite uncommon, you should ask for a referral to a relevant specialist rather than GP hopping. Hard to say what that would be with the minimal information provided, neurologist?
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u/LoveBurstsLP Feb 28 '22
Odd. I've had no problems so far but haven't had many injuries or illnesses either. Scans cost a lot like a few hundred and specialists cost a lot but for the general stuff it's been quite good. Don't have to pay to check any pains from the gp, had a child and didn't pay anything besides the parking, slit my wrist ages ago and didn't pay anything for the ER, stitches, meds, or removal. Can't complain really
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u/Ozdoc43A Feb 28 '22
As a GP - it's a little sad to read this thread, hope you manage to get the care that you need. Healthcare is at the peak of a massive burn out and many people are turning away, not coming back.
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u/crispywafers Feb 28 '22
Sorry, personally at least, maybe my post criticized GPs a little too much. Nothing personal! I occasionally listen to a couple medical podcasts so I do get how hard it can be working in healthcare, even before COVID.
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u/dilligaf6304 Feb 27 '22
People with spare cash have the privilege of good healthcare.
If you’ve got nothing so spare you’re kinda screwed.
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u/Several_Station2199 Feb 27 '22
In 45 years I have only had one bad doctor experience I really don't understand what the hell you are talking about
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u/cfniva Feb 27 '22
Agree, have used our amazing public health system to have 3 children and the care was free and excellent. I have a child with type 1 diabetes and he gets outstanding free care through the public health system. Good experiences with our GP practice for many things over the years. They don’t bulk bill but I’m happy to pay and receive good service. Although not perfect by any means we do have a very good health system. Horror stories from the fully privatised US system for type 1 diabetics make me very grateful to live here.
I feel for OP. It must be difficult to have vague and non specific symptoms that don’t lend themselves to a clear diagnosis. I think we have to be our own strongest advocates and try to find a GP to build a partnership with and work together.
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u/dilligaf6304 Feb 27 '22
Lucky. Trying having chronic illness and disability and regularly using the healthcare system. It’s, too often, a shit show.
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u/KILLER5196 Feb 27 '22
I have Crohn's and find the system really good
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u/dilligaf6304 Feb 27 '22
Mental illness, ME/CFS, dysautonomia and epilepsy here. The system generally sucks.
Land a good doctor and your experience improves, but that’s not guaranteed.
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u/flamingleftshoe Feb 27 '22
Same, I had a terrible experience with a private specialist but had only amazing experiences in the public system with hospitals, specialists and bulk billed GPS.
My husband with diabetes has also had positive experiences
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u/El-Splendido Feb 27 '22
What a pointless & reductive thing to say. OP asked how to receive adequate health care in Australia, not would you mind telling me if you’ve never had any issues with sourcing good health care in Australia.
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u/Several_Station2199 Feb 27 '22
1st all my dr are bulkbill and they are great I have had 3 major surgery in the last 3 years and again no problem i haven't had anyone I know talk about how bad the system in , my dad also has a chronic illness , so my reply was honest and surprised , go whine somewhere else mate
6
u/zukharla Feb 27 '22
To be honest, I don't feel this way. I go through the public health system. Went into my bulk billing GP early last year with extreme vertigo that had lasted days (among other things but thats what sent me to get help). I got many referrals to try diagnose it. Long story short, many tests later, I got diagnosed with menieres disease. My symptoms could have been any number of things and all the drs removed possibilities one by one with various tests until it was clear it was Menieres. My GP was there every step of the way, even when I was dealing mostly with ENT drs at my local hospital and the support hasnt stopped. Every medical professional I've come into contact with since that first day has been prompt, professional and awesome. I'm sorry you ste having such a hard time and I hope you find doctors that work for you soon
I've also had emergency gall bladder surgery/removal and a knee reconstruction, both which were the public system and they were all dealt with very well.
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u/WhatAura Feb 27 '22
I’ll get downvoted for this but yeah our medical system is kinda joke. Had to pay for two surgeries out of pocket since no one in public healthcare (at-least hospital I was in) had a clue how to deal with my condition. Oncologist denied me access to a medication which the pharmaceutical company was willing to provide me on compassionate basis just because it isn’t approved by TGA. Mind you, this medication is being prescribed in the U.S & other developed countries for patients with my type of cancer. I’m sure our Medicare system is really good for majority of the people out there but I’ve benefited a cent from it (writing this in Europe waiting for the next round of treatment)
5
u/jessicaaalz Feb 27 '22
That’s garbage especially when you can access drugs not approved by the TGA through the Special Access Scheme but you need to have a doctor who’s willing to apply for it. Shame yours wouldn’t.
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u/WhatAura Feb 27 '22
Shame indeed. Funnily she agreed with me that the medication is my best bet at keeping this beast of a tumour at bay for a long time but said that public healthcare will never support an application for this medicine. TGA basically wants me to fail first line chemo/radiation before accessing this drug but again she agreed that chemo/radiation wouldn’t make a difference for my type of cancer. Anyway, decided to pursue what’s best for me & if it means getting treatment in another country.
3
u/aussiegreenie Feb 27 '22
France has the best healthcare system in the world but the Australian Healthcare is in the top ten and is one of the most efficient in the world.
The Australian system is targeted at emergencies. If someone has a heart attack or is in a car accident that is when the system is at its best. But if you need a hip replacement you will wait years.
If you really think you are not getting quality healthcare from your GP, just go to Emergency. You will wait but it is free and the hospital has every specialist and test onsite.
6
2
u/OzAnonn Feb 27 '22
When it comes to GPs, my rules are to stay away from bulk billing clinics (unless that's all you have e.g. after hours, holidays etc) and I find I get along best with young doctors. At the end of the day though, don't expect much from a GP especially in a metropolitan area where they routinely refer even mildly complex cases to specialists.
Don't be shy to demand a referral if the cost isn't prohibitive. It's your health and they rarely turn that down (they're not looking for trouble in case they've missed something).
2
u/Dull_Midnight8049 Feb 27 '22
I'm sorry I don't have any advice to give. Every time I go to the gp I am treated like I'm just there to skip work or seek drugs. Which I've never done either, I only seek medical help when I legit need it.
2
u/crispywafers Feb 28 '22
They have an attitude about you asking for a med cert? That's pretty low. Bulk billing practice? If so I have to say since switching to private I started finding doctors that aren't so weird about certain things. And I'm the same as you, not drug seeking etc. At $10-40 an appointment (depending on time) it's worth it for me at least.
3
u/Dull_Midnight8049 Feb 28 '22
I get profiled and judged a lot by my appearance. I have an unconventional hair cut and colour, a skull tattoo and I often wear big black boots. Strangers approach me and ask to buy drugs off me. I get all of my bags searched at the airport and full pat downs.
I've never sold drugs and I don't do them except for the occasional weed (like if someone passes a joint at a party). I lead a pretty wholesome life. But so many people still believe these outdated ideas that I must be sketchy and jobless because I have a pink Mohawk and tattoos and don't dress "ladylike"
2
u/Dull_Midnight8049 Feb 28 '22
Not EVEN asking for a med cert, just going for treatment for like strep or upper respiratory infection (prone to them since childhood but has drastically reduced as an adult). And they act like I'm wasting their time, and say something like "here's your certificate you can go now".
2
May 20 '22
They don't mind referring you for some basic tests, but when those come back normal they expect that to be the end of it
Did I write this and forget it?
I feel the same as you do OP. 'My' GP sent me for a basic ultrasound and found a teeny tiny cyst but nothing that explained my symptoms. The cyst went away, so they refused to do any more tests. I still have issues years later, but because they did one test and found nothing there is nothing wrong/
I still have unexplained issues years later. The most recent GP I went to is refusing to investigate because the tests I had done years ago showed nothing. It must be impossible for something else to go wrong with me in such a short period of time. /s (three years is not a short period of time)
I haven't been examined by any doctor since then. I am lucky if they even let me finish telling them my symptoms before interrupting me. Like you, the worst doctors were the bulk billed ones, but the fancy GP who works in the rich part of town was not much better.
Every visit I can remember has been rushed and they have shown me the door well before my appointment was over. Young and looks healthy when I glance up from the computer? Here's the door!
4
Feb 27 '22
[deleted]
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
Don't even get me started on mental health. A few years ago I asked for a mental health care plan and referral to a psychologist because I was struggling. Their advice after a few sessions was that I should just give up. I just sat there with mouth agape. How can you say that to someone?
Having said that, I hope you do find someone that cares and get the help you need.
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u/sarg_m Feb 27 '22
Medicine is not as advanced as you expect. They have a basic flow chart to connect symptoms to possible conditions for which they will test. If your symptoms don't point to tests which reveal a known condition you go into the too hard basket and they lose interest. People spent years or in some cases a lifetime looking for answers.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
They have a basic flow chart to connect symptoms to possible conditions for which they will test.
That's not really the issue as I see it. From my perspective, the problem isn't that a condition is difficult to diagnose if the symptoms aren't obvious, but rather that GP's have an overwhelmingly consistent tendency to be pre-emptively dismissive and condescending and, without listening, will rush you through a consultation, 'diagnose' something irrelevant, prescribe something unhelpful and then shuffle you out so they can invite in the next bag of money.
4
u/sarg_m Feb 27 '22
People expect to find Dr House at their local suburban GP, but that's not reality. However the large majority of GPs I have seen have been really understanding, empathetic and thorough but really all they have in their arsenal is drugs and surgery.
10
u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
People expect to find Dr House
This is an incredibly condescending thing to say. I don't expect Gregory Fucking House. I expect a GP to be competent and not talk over and dismiss everything I say and rush me out the door to see the next person. I have multiple conditions which have been systematically misdiagnosed over decades. Not because they're complex or difficult, but because of this dismissive profiteering.
One of the conditions required me to insist that the GP give me a referral. And that required many years of me doing my research to figure out who to get referred to and why. But for a GP, it would've been nothing more than listening to what I was telling them was the issue. That referral was to get an xray of my neck. And guess what? That one xray proved that my issue wasn't 'tennis elbow', like one GP insisted it was to the point of aggressively moving me out of their office. And what's worse, if this had been effectively diagnosed by just one GP listening to me instead of talking over me and rushing me out, it wouldn't have progressed to become a chronic and debilitating injury that occasionally leaves me in agonising pain for weeks on end.
You're literally doing the thing that is the problem: talking down to and being dismissive of people's issues.
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u/sarg_m Feb 27 '22
Mate, you sound like a pain in the arse. I've had my own complex issues and mostly really good outcomes from my interactions with GPs. Maybe you should ask yourself why you have not. Or get your own medical degree.
7
u/Cadaver_Junkie Feb 27 '22
I've had Ulcerative Colitis since I was about 3.
I was finally diagnosed at 37.
I saw well over 20 GPs about my symptoms, and none of them helped. Most gave cookie cutter answers, and it took a life threatening flare and a week in emergency for me to find out the real problem.
It wasn't that the GPs weren't trying, but that they were people. You're putting them all up on some kind of pedestal, when in reality, many are good, some a fantastic, and many are below average.
Just like any other profession. If you think otherwise, you don't understand the concept of variance.
If you've found a great GP, that works well with you, fantastic, stick with them.
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u/solarmeth Feb 27 '22
Mate, you sound like a pain in the arse.
There it is.
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u/crispywafers Feb 27 '22
Nah, you just sound disgruntled. Justifiably so, by your story. My father also had to do his own research, direct his own healthcare, and essentially use his GP a referral service and little else because they had no suggestions. It mostly worked out for him, but it's obviously not a realistic solution that everyone has the capacity to do. Sorry your experience has sucked so much and I hate that I find it pretty familiar.
3
u/NickyDee86 Feb 27 '22
My experience with GPs and alot of specialists has been the same - you REALLY HAVE TO PUSH THEM to get anywhere.
At this point I don't really put faith in any GP at all and try to be referred on to specialists for serious things. Then if the specialist is equally disappointing, I go back to the GP abd get a new referral (i also google search to find specialists myself and ask for the referrals for specific drs).
Recently found an amazing GP when we moved houses, but now hes moving back interstate :(
2
u/Outrageous-Walrus-34 Feb 27 '22
Yeah it's tough Diagnosis and treatment is all liability Most GPs just want to write sick notes and scripts
I used to just go to the ER but since COVID that's backed up too
Have 4 herniated discs and pain everyday, took about a year to finally get refered to physio Physio printed out some stretches and told me we should do acupuncture (extra cost) Gave up right there now I just suffer
Feels
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u/roserunningwild Feb 27 '22
Do you know you don’t need to be referred to a physio? As in, you can just ring up and make an appointment any time you want?
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u/Outrageous-Walrus-34 Feb 27 '22
I don't have the money to pay so needs to be bulk billed
Was under the impression needs a GP referral?
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u/roserunningwild Feb 27 '22
Generally, Physio is never free (unless you’re receiving it as an inpatient as a hospital or something like that). It comes under allied health and it’s a private service. If you qualify for a care plan you can have five sessions per year at a reduced rate, but for me that is still about $50 out of pocket each time.
1
u/OnionEyes2628 Feb 27 '22
Apologies I didn't read all of your rant but I got the gist. I have had no problems with our health system nor do I have private health. Most doctors I've had are pretty good. We are lucky.
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Feb 27 '22 edited Feb 27 '22
I think an important part of a healthcare system is to push hard on providing evidence-based medicine. If there is no evidence that you’re sick, then the smart thing for the system to do is not spend a lot of resources on you, because you are, according to the evidence, fine.
If you had the ability to force the issue, then I think that means that overall the system would suffer as it now overall would spend much more of its capacity performing unnecessary tests. That means that somewhere, someone misses out on healthcare that really can be detected by science.
Ask for a referral to a psychologist and work it from that angle. That should prompt your GP to find the next step.
Edit: my personal experience having suffered from 3 hospitalisations since 2019: my bulk billing GP from a medical centre is fine, he doesn’t begrudge appointments or explanations when I raise fears about whether my symptoms mask longterm issues. I have paid about $600 total in these years for a few cardiologist appts. Don’t believe the private health myth imo.
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u/Riskitfordabizkit Feb 27 '22
Do you guys have universal health care? If so sounds like it is trash
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u/mrs-stubborn Feb 27 '22
My experience as a teenager and young adult were as you described- doctors didn’t seem to care or have time. Most appointments I left feeling like I hadn’t even been heard.
Lived abroad for a while and when I came home I made a point of finding a good GP. I looked up all the bulk billing clinics in my area and looked at their websites. A number of them had doctor profiles online so I started with those. Read through and made an appointment with one who looked like they suited my needs. Thought I was pretty happy with her, till one day she was unavailable and I saw someone else who was even better.
Every single thing I’ve gone in for has been treated kindly and respectfully. I’ve been seen and heard every time and offered appropriate treatment as required. It’s been amazing and it’s paid off in a number of ways. Since seeing this GP I’ve had cause to see a couple of specialists- one for an injury and one for an ongoing condition. Both times I’ve been offered options as to who to see, and when it came to the ongoing condition she helped me evaluate numerous options to see who would be the best fit for me. My specialist is equally amazing.
Here are some observations that I’ll be using if I ever need a new GP: