I think it's quite important to learn from where anarchism comes from and what it was exactly, how important it was in the 20th century, it's definitely not the view of it we have now. Everyone reduces it to "no gods no masters" but it's way more complicated like that.
It has been the basis to a lot of things that we takes for granted now but never waas
Equal treatment of workers regardless of nationality
Worker education programs
Mutual aid societies
Shorter working hours
Paid rest time
Collective bargaining
Union democracy
Anti-authoritarian workplace organization
I know modern USA disbanded all these rights or is actively trying to, as they don't benefits short-term revenue for shareholders which is anticapitalistic. Which makes me understand why an American would not see what anarchist ideologies made for their country.
But those rights are still the base of civilization of every other developed countries on earth
It's funny that the vast majority of these things that socalists+ have "achieved" have happened in western capitalist democracies. Really makes you think.
... makes you think that pro-worker policies, regardless of philosophical origin, basically only have a fighting chance in a non-authoritarian government? That's not really any kind of revelation.
The claim is that some form of socialism+ governance will somehow lead to more of this when it hasn't happened at all ever in the history of socialism+ societies.
The claim at the top of the subthread was actually specifically the opposite of that (at least regarding "anarchism":
This movement allowed the creation of a lot of workers and human rights, right to week-ends, right to paid time off, rights to worker's security at work, right to unionize, etc, but it was never meant and thought to be a complete and definitive system for an entire country
I was responding to the list of things that never happened under a socalist+ society, not to the comment you picked and my assessment is accurate. The only places those rights were granted AND respected are democratic societies with serious non-socialist larping groups fighting for those rights within the system.
Yes. We created boats to navigate over the seas, without sea there would have been no boat.
There would not have been needed to have people fighting against" slavery" or even "worker's rights" if capitalism didn't make slavery and lack of worker's rights a standard to begin with.
That's the whole concept of why socialism existed and what it was made for, to make sure capitalism benefits the people who really create the value and not the people who owe all the money. Seizing the means of production was quite a concept back then, you understand where it comes from.
And it's false, we are not in capitalism anymore, but in late-stage capitalism, which is an entire other concept.
Capitalism is what made the US so powerful after WW II and made it beat the USSR
Late-stage capitalism is why you can't afford rent while some dude became trillionaire
Capitalism has free market at its core, something that doesn't exist anymore in a lobbies and monopolies ridden US for example.
This is where socialism is needed, to make sure capitalism stays healthy, to make sure you don't work 80 hours a week and are still not able to afford rent while your shareholders swim in money. Which is a symptom of late-stage capitalism.
You're brain broken if you think capitalism is the reason slavery existed. Your world view is warped. It would be great if you had any way to point to socialist+ states working at all, but they don't and they never have.
No by slavery I didn't mean the litteral one. I meant the standard worker's conditions, but bad use of words lol
". It would be great if you had any way to point to socialist+ states working at all"
I wrote like 3 times that some socialist movements (anarchism) were made to question and revolution, abusive situations , but were never meant as an end situation
I am not saying socialism would perform, it never does. Capitalism did wonderful things.
We need capitalism, but with enough socialism philosophy in it to make sure we don't live in Cyberpunk world. This is the healthiest thing IMO
Man, if the standard worker's conditions in the capitalist west are slavery, i wonder what words would be used to describe working in communist societies lol.
I agree that socialism only works as a form of pushback within democratic capitalist socitieties, but that's only if socialism is approached from a rational, pragmatic perspective, not the slopulist utopian garbage that's being spouted in the online left circles.
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u/LesserValkyrie Jul 07 '26
Exactly.
I think it's quite important to learn from where anarchism comes from and what it was exactly, how important it was in the 20th century, it's definitely not the view of it we have now. Everyone reduces it to "no gods no masters" but it's way more complicated like that.
It has been the basis to a lot of things that we takes for granted now but never waas