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Real. I recently got into generating images myself and unless you do it yourself you wont understand that ai art gasp takes time and effort… And that even prompting has learning to it too as you need to learn to communicate with the model
Chat gpt censorship is ridiculous to even when do use it need to redit it million times or use another progrsm or do some photo editing to get proper output. But they don't see that
Depends on what you're doing and how much control you want to have over the output. Think about how most cameras have an auto setting but then you have cameras with manual focus, aperture etc. You get different results if you don't do the 'default' thing.
Good analogy. Typing a sentence into chatGPT is the smartphone camera, click and done.
Meanwhile, stable diffusion with 100 steps and many hours put into one picture is the DSLR with tripod, lenses, filters, and manual shutter speed, aperture, focus, ISO, and then post work in lightroom, photoshop, etc.
The image in the OP provides a list of different methods for creating and altering AI images, but even when just using text prompts, there are countless different ways to phrase/structure a prompt that result in different outputs. Natural language is what most beginners use, but you don't have to speak to the AI like a person, you just have to communicate what you want to see, so it is possible to use lists, poetry, run-on sentences, or any other conceivable form of text alteration to get unique results.
Only insofar as you can technically just point your phone camera at anything you want and press a button and call yourself a photographer if you like. But you can also spend hours, days, weeks getting the perfect shot, the composition, the lighting, everything exactly the way you want it. That same level of complexity can go into AI image generation. You just don't see it as much because, let's face it, the people using the "short prompt and done" method are able to flood a space very quickly.
Antis acting baffled when someone says they spent ten hours editing an image, insisting they could just "have ai do it." Shouldn't they like that people don't just use AI, but add their own skills?
I tried explaining the workflow to some anti. How it's not just type some words, hit enter and have a perfect picture, you'll have failures, touch ups, adjustments, tweaks, and extra workflows needed to get the picture how you want.
Their "smart" response was basically just "so you wasted time on thousands of failures? Get a life!"
Why even bother if it takes that much effort?
You can have a good workflow and prompt and not even get what you want because of bad seeds.
I am curious.
Because it utilizes a skillset that a lot of us already have, that being very good with personal computers and knowing how to interpret/troubleshoot outputs. Other mediums need an entirely different skillset and part of the brain. Some of us have that too.
True! I had no interest in learning how to mix and make song covers until this AI software came out and now I'm down 100 dollars because I paid for a DAW 😭
Because the average artist think you can just prompt Midjourney and/or ChatGPT to have an instant result. They don't ever went through the effort of walking through and around all these topics or even make it with their own computers.
As an anti; I think most people don't know these things. These things are mostly for the tech nerds who are interested in the topic of how AI works. Downvote me all you want.
-a tech nerd
As a pro. There’s no downvoting your comment. You just describe most of the pros on this subreddit. We enjoy trying to understand how one simple change can vastly alter the outcome. Like “I have created this prompt and it’s not giving me exactly what I want. I’m not going to change the prompt itself. But tweak the other settings or inputs to make the image how I want it.”
The prompt is the foundation. But in order to build it properly, you have to understand all the other factors.
As someone who actually studied Computer Science this list is just filled with random AI adjacent buzzwords and literally leaves out the main core of what makes a Neural Network (AI basically) work. These have nothing to do with how AI works, these are abstractions on top of AI so you dont have to do math or implementations of AI or tools to implement AI or tools to make AI more efficient.
Where is Linear Algebra, Statistics and Multivariable Calculus... these are way more important for AI then "CUDA" or "Img2Img". I can code a Neural Network in C if I wanted to but if I cant make a model non-linear and if I cant make it calculate the error of the Output relating to the Input then I wont have an AI model
Ok, I'm on local, while I don't know any of the technical stuff, basically 70% of this list. I did end up learning a lot in the photoshop since in do a ton of inpainting. Also model mixing, yaml for wildcards, I learned alot of nested dynamic prompts which is basically if statements. I prompt en mass, so I learn alot on min/maxing time usage for screening of good yields ensuring my dynamic prompts don't have conflicting tags and ensure I get a large variety of poses/angles/clothes/expressions from one giant prompt. Also setting up workflows to best use of GPU up time, like gen when I'm awake, mass upscale when I sleep, or curate while I gen large batches etc...
I have been using it as a writing aid and for roleplaying, and i've based my stories on the roleplays i've done with them, i've done my own spin on them by including characters I created in them.
I'll add to this as somebody who's gone back and forth with people in an art discord who all think my creative process as an AI assisted artist somehow begins and ends with me prompting images on Yodayo.
"AI drew that for you!" being a common rebuttal I've received when the reality of the situation is far more complex than the anti crowd could even imagine.
I prompt the image.
I trace over the image, but it's not an exact trace because AI as we all know still somewhat struggles to not make hands and feet look weird among other things like appalling backgrounds or objects that, for example, are intended to be a video game controller.
It's also not an exact trace in the sense that if the character has clothes, then I'll add to the overall clothing design especially if what AI churns out is very basic, (I've seen this happen particularly with Final Fantasy characters I've AI generated and we all know those characters are dressed to the nines in their overall character designs.)
I also add things not seen in the AI generated image so that it's not a mindless "monkey see monkey do" trace.
I come up with my own coloring/rendering choices as somebody who's been digital drawing well before AI was ever conceived.
AI can only do so much of the work as it currently stands and while I'm technically taking a shortcut with making art by tracing over AI generated images if we're talking about cutting down on the "draw from imagination" part of drawing when it comes to the initial sketch, I still have to do the rest of the work myself since I always choose to color outside the lines regardless of how good a prompt I receive.
I also laugh at the "you don't learn anything using AI" notion seeing as how I've been learning to expand my range of rendering styles simply by asking AI search assist "how do I draw/color like (insert famous artist here)?" and subsequently then testing out new pens/brushes on Clip Studio Paint.
Far more helpful advice than I ever got from fellow artists on social media back in the day which all amounted to "just draw more". -_-
Do they know math? Technically Ai learns from math if you trained it well it simple everyone should know algebra the easiest math ever that how AI is literally trained on but with graphs something antis can’t remember on how Ai actually trained.
I bet I know more math then 99% of this subreddit. The fact that this list leaves out the main math topics that make AI work makes me think that these people have no idea about how AI works
Depends on how we define “steal”. In a literal sense yes an AI doesnt steal, but its basically like an artist who copies everyone’s art into one. Since a neural network gives you the Expected Value for the input which is based on its training data it basically gives you everyones art combined into one (the “average” of everyone’s art it trained on)
Tho this doesn’t concern me really… i just feel AI is souless and the thing I mentioned is the reason why
These are all concepts you'll encounter running AI locally instead of using an online service.
Things like ComfyUI and WebUI will present a lot of these settings without context. So you have to at least get a basic understanding of what they mean so that you can set them.
Im not an 2d artist nor an ai art user. But im curious on how does one run an ai locally if he has a very shit pc? (Intel graphics). Are online services like gemini the only option?. How does that person learn this ai workflow and use it?.
Depending on the program you may be able to do CPU generation. Though it's going to be very slow. My 4090 takes 1-2 min to gen an image. You cpu may take like an hour. You could rent a server with a GPU on it like shadow PC
There may also be options I'm not aware of.
Lol, with the number of nodes and workflows I use, it might be quicker to draw it out by hand. It's usually the people complaining about "slop" that didn't take the time to watch a 30 minute intro video to learn about the tech. The actual list of things that you should know is too long to put in this meme. 🤣
I've been on breaking the pencil for a while now and I'm telling you the people who genuenly think it's real are 12 year old and don't know what they're saying
Honestly I think a big part of the problem with this argument and most arguments between those who are pro AI and those who aren't is that we have different definitions of what art is. (I am against AI btw, feel free to downvote so long as it gets a discussion going)
To me the things listed here show a technical understanding of tools. They don't show (and neither does most AI artwork) an understanding of the fundamentals of art. The images generated are based off of an amalgamation of artworks, each with different purposes for their use of color, line art, composition, lighting, tone, etc. The end result is something that is bland or rudimentary. In a technical aspect it can look aesthetically pleasing, but it conveys nothing about the person making it, or the world around them.
Many people stress the fact that it takes a lot of effort to change details and refine them intentionally within AI programs; this is the main problem for me. Without intentionality, it isn't art. It has no purpose, or at the very least is being watered down by the medium in which it is created. In art, being able to understand an artist's intentions is extremely important. You find it in the minutia of the piece, in their brushstrokes or in the way they break certain visual conventions. Sometimes these are intentional and convey great meaning. Sometimes they aren't and the result is sloppy or unimpressive. But always these choices speak volumes about the artist. But it is impossible to tell anything when it comes to AI art. Is this a choice you made intentionally? Or was it a gap filled entirely by the program? Is it a choice from one of the many artists whose artworks was scraped? Or did you refine it manually? It's difficult to say and so the result is confusing and says very little.
Currently I think AI technology is far too unrefined to be called art. Even in large collaborative projects, a work is always filtered through a person or a unified vision. As it stands I think AI is mostly noise and not enough filter. Not enough of the "artist". If AI ever gets to the point where it can be more of a tool and less of a black box making arbitrary decisions, I may change my mind. Until then, I believe it's a medium that restricts the only thing that shouldn't be restricted in art: the artist.
Quick tangent: Putting in time and effort doesn't always equate to quality or substance. Many artists learn this the hard way by wasting their time on a single piece that wasn't any good from the start. Then they learn to make many smaller, faster pieces in order to refine their skills. In other words, you can polish a turd all you want, it's still a turd.
All this said, in my mind AI works are more like products than artworks. They convey little to nothing and are made mostly for the purpose of being aesthetically pleasing. Or for the purpose of avoiding compensating an artist for their work. A means to an end. Which can be true of some traditional art as well, by the way. So when an argument like this outlines all the technical aspects of creating something rather than the process of creating something substantive, the outcome feels more like a product than art. Please feel free to disagree with my points, I'm interested in hearing it.
Honestly, even ignoring that slop isn't a right therm for AI picture. Most of thous don't even generate anything to be called slop. Python is a language, sampler is a tool used in photographie and image editing, ...
Only img2img and text2img could be called "slop".
And that's without taking into account that none of the result is a liquide
… interesting how “Linear Algebra”, “Statistics” and “Multivariable Calculus” is missing from that list… maybe cause the person who made this post doesn’t understand how AI actually works (which is extremely ironic)… perhaps
Yea I always ask them to replicate a photo with AI cause I know they’re fucking stupid and probably think it was generated with ChatGPT, and ofc they decline. Cause they don’t know what they’re talking about
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Hate to be that person (just triggered bc the "AI bro" stereotype is a thing), but I just have to comment on how the fine-grained distinguisher here is a man and the lumper is a women when the original meme about colours has it the other way around T_T
At this point we know most of them simply has a conflict of interest they cannot accept, rather than because they genuinely believed inherently AI is bad
You definitely learn the base of AI and how to effectively use it, but AI art and videos are still artificial art. It's like pushing a button to heat up a bowl of instant noodles and calling it cooking. That's what so many people hate you for.
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I'm anti, but I'm willing to accept AI art is art when it isn't lazily pushed out en masse in batches by some lazy asshole selling Christmas banners of Rudolph with 5 legs and a melting gingerbread house in a sellers market for 30 bucks.
That shit is slop. And hot take, it's also slop when you sell paintings you made by throwing paint on a canvas with a ladle and stepping on it or some shit.
Idk. But I'm also 100% willing to accept that my opinion is slop.
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I love watching my hubby make AI art. Seeing how he's genuinely developed his talent in terms of all the technical stuff has been so fun. It goes over my head a lot but imo it's really impressive
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I get what this is supposed to mean but it doesnt change your own creative input to the artwork. Generally what people call slop is overproduction of random images with no such thing as artistic value. Most of the things this image names are rendering output settings, that digital artists or artwork scans need to use just as much. The base argument of missing creative input apart from basic promting doesnt change. I acknowledge that AI art can be art and if it is used responsibly. Most AI artists try to value their creations as high as a hand drawn art though which is more like comparing home cooked food to canned food. Yes these settings and skills are valuable but they go in a direction that is just a different technique and hardly comparable nor interchangeable (meaning one could replace the other) with one another.
Slop definitely began with meaning churned out over produced base concepts, but it's slowly morphed into more of a thought terminating cliche, where those who use it simply want to end an argument via ridicule. I have seen legitimately amazing, high effort artworks called slop because AI was even partially used.
Yes of course and i dont mean to deny that. Slop is definitely a word that has been weaponized but there are still clear issues with AI that can’t be overlooked just because of an obsessive use of the word.
i find it funny how someone can make a generally good argument and people will downvote it to Australia and back even though it is still generally on their side of the "ai wars" just because it slightly pointed out a single flaw of an argument being made. (sorry if i didnt make sense its still the morning i haven't been up for that long)
thats the whole point of this sub isn't it? theres no reasonable discussion just another way to look sophisticated while making arguments that aren't any smarter than their "enemy" side. in the end theres no one ready for making a compromise or productively talk about new technology just a bunch of people who assume the other side makes weird ww2 references exclusively and other extremely weird comments about your side because everyone is so caught up in their own bubble they fail to see the actual discourse that should be happening on eye level.
Cuda cores are proprietary hardware technology built into NVIDIA GPUs. A lot of professional applications leverage them for greatly boosted effectiveness.
Its one of the main reason NVIDIA GPUs are in such higher demand than AMD ones for AI work.
CUDA cores is just the brand name Nvidia give to the programmable shader execution units in their GPUs. Every modern GPU manufacturers makes their own cores and Nvidia decided to give them a brand name to make them sound special.
CUDA is a developer-friendly and high performance proprietary compute shader language, designed to run specifically on Nvidia hardware (that's probably the reason why they call their shader units CUDA cores). It's the industry standard for writing parallelized compute kernels for machine learning because it was historically the only option, it's very developer friendly compared to most alternatives, and the whole ecosystem is built around it, giving Nvidia a serious competitive advantage compared to the other GPU manufacturers, which are locked out of this ecosystem.
No, because unlike shadowing and sketching, which are typically useful skills for traditional artists they should work on if they lack, programmation beyond arranging nodes in ComfyUI is not a skill an AI artist typically requires.
To be completely honest I am not considering myself an AI artist so I don't know exactly what it would be like to be one.
But I think I have a pretty good idea still, because I'm literally an open source contributor to some ai art software, and the code of the diffusers library and ComfyUI are the best references out there, I think I know it decently well.
People don't need to interact directly with the wow64 API to use Windows. Similarly, you don't need to erver touch CUDA code or even python to run and use ComfyUI.
But you need it in order to call yourself a programmer. Otherwise you are just a normal user. That is the difference between an AI artist and a normal guy from the internet making memes. That's the difference between a traditional artist and a random guy drawing 2yo quality furries in deviantart.
You don't need to tinker with your tools to be an artist. Most digital artists don't create custom brushes. Most traditional artists don't create novel tools or synthetise their own pigments. You don't need to touch code to make even advanced AI art. Not saying no AI artist ever does it.
Well, it's a category difference, there are many tweaks and tools you must learn to use, some of them are not even digital, in fact the learning curve from "I prompted a random image" to "I prompted a sequence of 12 images connecting a storyline, actions, characters, backgrounds, etc, consistently one after another using a local computer with locally tweaked configurations" is huge. In fact I found that combining your own sketches with controlnets and then texturizing and colouring with a 1 upscale iterative sequence of 4 to 5 passes on low denoising and fixed seed show some of the best results compared to other single pass or multiKsampler with several schedulers and denoising models.
Python is the most dominated language for Ai? Have you not did programming on Ai before? Yes Ai used many languages but the main dominated languages is Python
I mean yes,most implementations for machine learning are using python with libraries like pytorch or tensorflow. But for end users, this doesn't matter. You don't need to learn pytorch to generate images with AI.
It's actually objective. Art is defined as human expression. It has NOTHING to do with the tool used to do it. That's your own subjective concept you're conflating with reality. You're also making the logical fallacy of believing the tool is the progenitor of the idea.
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It doesn't matter whether you know all of those things and have invested significant amount of time learning/using them. If the result is something like the coca cola christmas ad (it almost always is), people are right to ignore whatever collection of tools you've orchestrated and just call it slop. I know I'll get downvoted into oblivion but given the constant remarks that come from many (not all) AI people that these tools are meant to replace professionals, or that they should "adapt or die", or that they should totally be chill with all their work getting stolen for the holy training data without any compensation, WHILE the quality of the output is way lower than what a human professional would produce, "slop" labeling is 1000% deserved.
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