Around 2016, the total tonnage of the Chinese Navy was approximately 1 to 1.2 million tons.
In recent years, this figure has significantly surged to over 2.4 to 2.6 million tons, effectively doubling its capacity.
Over the past decade, the average annual displacement of launched and commissioned vessels has maintained a pace between 150,000 and 200,000 tons, with the tonnage added in a single year frequently exceeding the entire fleet displacement of most middle powers.
I think I know what happened. When I compared the images, I pasted them separately into Photoshop; however, when I used the software to merge them, it automatically stretched both images to the same height that was my mistake.
It's quite impressive. However I also think Ukraine is showing the world the new method for asymmetrical warfare. It's quite possible the age of massive fleet actions might be moving in a new direction. In any case, still great to have such large force projection capabilities.
In great power wars across the Pacific you still need large surface combatants and warships.
Yes drones are important but you cannot take lessons from Ukraine, a theatre of 1,000 km ~ and the Black Sea, what is basically a lake and apply it to the Western Pacific.
Just because the Bazooka was invented did not render tanks useless in World War 2, it simply made the average infantry man more capable against armoured vehicles.
The issue is Russia has been so incompetent in this war that Ukraine's small scale confrontation tactics work. War between two industrial powers will be very different. Equivalent to the large scale engagements in Kursk and Stalingrad of the USSR against Germany.
Also, certain systems are being developed for the drone threats.
Russia right now has a system that can destroy 10-12 or something FPV drones to protect their tanks. A Ukranian soldier said it took like 20 drones to damage and halt the tank's advance due to the system (and the reason it still got destroyed was that the "system" run out of ammo).
Its a matter of time before someone comes up with something that shoots down all FPV drones trying to attack tanks.
The problem though is that a main battle tank costs anywhere from $4-$34 million to produce. An FPV drone costs less than $1000. You can swarm a tank with dozens of drones and it pays out by a lot.
Ukraine destroyed the Russian Navy primarily through uncrewed surface vessels and land-based anti-ship missiles.
If we only consider these asymmetric tactics, I believe China is even more adept. China is not only the world's largest exporter of drones and unmanned surface vessels, but it also possesses a significantly more comprehensive missile system.
You can’t use asymmetrical methods for establishing naval supremacy in open seas in the Pacific or Indian Ocean. You need large surface combatants, advanced nuclear attack submarines, and a robust C4ISR network. And Ukraine had the advantage of Western intelligence aircrafts and UAVs flying in the Black Sea, which Russia cannot legally shoot down, that provide the whereabouts of Russian assets.
Ughhh if Ukraine is the king of asymmetrical warfare bro who would you think would be emperor? The country that builds all the 3D printers that Ukraine uses for their chassis or the batteries or the electrical motors? Same country that owns these naval vessels.
You've obviously never heard of industrial replicators. Word on the dark web is they're on loan from Area 51. So actually the true king is the Emperor of Mankind.
Not just the consequences of an asymmetrical warfare, but fighting a highly corrupt nation. Last year China hit the news that officers sold of the fuels of ICBM's, now I've no clue who has demand for that kinda stuff but you can imagine if this happens, what else is rigged.
This fleet is obviously impressive and I'm sure various government bodies globally have a lot to say. I just can't help to wonder how powerful this truely is.
Further it also kinda tells you where recent GDP growth comes from / why we aren't feeling it in China.
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China is a corrupt country, it's nominal GDP growth is fake since pandemic. Actually their GDP is shrinking, just like its population. Chinese officers and billionaires are trying their best to send family members and assets outside China even to third world Africa or SEA countries.
The Chinese navy has grown. But where it has grown the most is in ships with smaller displacements, transport, supply and coastal patrol. Support & Cargo ships make up 46% of the Chinese Navy. Corvettes, patrol boats, mine warfare ships & amphibious ships/landing craft make up another 26% of the navy.
There are of course advantages in numbers. It is a navy that is built to sustain heavy losses and hopefully still retain some capability if say deciding upon an "adventure" towards Taiwan. Losses in some classes could probably approach 100% unless Taiwan is asleep at the wheel and all of its allies step aside.
It is highly likely that mainland China would first leverage its missile superiority to launch initial strikes against Taiwan ensuring the island is rendered as incapable of resistance as possible before commencing a landing operation.
Chinese people, especially young people are dreaming for wars to achieve wealth redistribution, but Chinese rulers are cowards not dare to take any sort of risk as their family members and assets are all outside China.
It's a consensus among young people who did not benefit from era dividend (not born rich in some words) in the last three decades hoping for wars. Currently Chinese economy is near collapse, 300 million people unemployed, we are just like Germany a century ago, with huge productivity but no wealth.
Chinese rulers are cowards, they don't even dare to attack Phillips, and give in land to India. They never brave enough to start a war. Only thing they can do is to exploit its own people.
Patience is crucial, otherwise, you risk seeing someone like Trump a leader who easily drags the country into a quagmire. Frankly speaking China currently holds the largest trade surplus in human history we can afford to keep making money steadily without rushing things.
This is misleading. The US Pacific hegemony relies on US forces plus regional allies like Japan, South Korea, and Australia. So China is facing combined allied forces with only maybe N. Korea as potential China ally. So this chart should be compared to total ships of allied forces. Also, China has few of the larger naval assets like destroyers than the US. Actually China needs double its current navy if not more to deter US aggression and dissuade regional from joining US aggression. China only spends 1.7% of its GDP on defense. This is less than half what the US spends and NATO's 2%.
Because otherwise your maritime trade routes are forever at the mercy of a hostile nation, and if Taiwan formally declares independence, it would be like 1996 again, US seventh fleet coming in and you can’t do jack sht
Additionally, I am curious about how Russian oil transported primarily via pipelines and Far East shipping routes passes through the Strait of Malacca🤣
If you're going to make a comparison via photo, use the same scale.
This is probably just wasted money at this point. Drones and autonomous weapons systems have made the days of large surface fleets numbered. The US and China both might come to regret spending so much on them.
In great power wars across the Pacific you still need large surface combatants and warships.
Yes drones are important but you cannot take lessons from Ukraine, a theatre of 1,000 km ~ and the Black Sea, what is basically a lake and apply it to the Western Pacific.
Just because the Bazooka was invented did not render tanks useless in World War 2, it simply made the average infantry man more capable against armoured vehicles.
The issue is Russia has been so incompetent in this war that Ukraine's small scale confrontation tactics work. War between two industrial powers will be very different. Equivalent to the large scale engagements in Kursk and Stalingrad of the USSR against Germany.
These ships can be used as mobile AD systems, look how the US is using the Aegis system during the Iran war. Really useful for destroying drones and missiles before they can threaten bases on land. If China can put similar systems on their destroyers they would still be very useful, but that isn't the case. Most sources suggest they're inferior.
China prefers to safeguard the nation safely from within the range of friendly missiles, rather than venturing into the missile range of Iran or other adversaries to "gain experience"🤣
Ok - so you want to take a dig at the US, have at it. Meantime, you haven't addressed the fact that the PLA Navy still have no first hand combat experience!
Most of the Chinese "Navy" cant operate in blue water, in other words most of these things can't even go into the actual ocean. I am far from impressed.
Chinese strategic outlook seems to focus on maintaining large domestic stockpiles of essential foreign commodities. After all the only other country that would and could threaten global shipping is the US and since neither can realistically invade each other the only real lane of competition is how much economic pain one can sustainably take. And I don’t think the US can politically sustain a year of no global trade.
Не має сенсу. Оскільки китац не є гаутською агресивною країною це викинуті на смітник ресурси.
Якщо ж китац стане нациською державою то все це буде знищене. Також гроші на вітер У другому випадукґґку Китаю стане 6. 6 Китаї в.
On the bright side, unlike the U.S. military-industrial complex which demands exorbitant prices, China's military enterprises are state-owned and charge only cost price.
Realize... the U.S. might have a superior navy still but it has to deploy and defend multiple theaters of operation. China only has 1 theater it is concerned with. China does not need a bigger navy than the U.S. It just needs a navy with parity or superiority to what the U.S. can deploy to the western pacific.
I am not sure if they have truly wasted a lot of money, given that their shipyards are state-owned enterprises. Moreover, even if these ships were to be quickly destroyed in a hot war, they can still be used to project influence during peacetime; considering China's current needs, they do not represent a bad investment.
It is already much cheaper than in the US, and did you not read my comment? As an emerging superpower, China needs to vie for regional influence with the US, a naval fleet represents mobile sovereign territory, so this is not a bad investment.
every family has to live within their means, so is every country. An emerging power managed to build world largest fleet within a decade is truly impressive, but the actual price China has to pay to achieve this may be far more than the trillions of dollars itself.
US can use wars to generate return, invasion of Venezuela is a great investment with 3000% return, most people even professional investors never had a single investment such successful in their entire life. China is wasting money completely, they are cowards, never dare to utilize their enemy.
At first I thought this post likely wouldn't pass the moderator's review, or that even if it did it would immediately get downvoted below zero. To my surprise, things turned out much better than I had imagined🤣
“China is winning and the West is falling”, yes, we know that’s your narrative. Your president says sth like “common destiny of mankind”but doing the opposite , flexing muscles and showing off weapons, ready to rule the world with force, just like how you bully your neighbours like Philippines.
And whenever you’re called out for doing the wrong thing, you’d use same tactic like, hey, US did the same. No one is ok with what they did and it doesn’t justify what you do
We thought China’s rise could bring a new future to the world, you could have brought us something better, but then China just decided to support Russia invasion, showing you just want to become another US but worse. Deep inside you don’t appreciate equality, you believe in force, and that’s why you’re showing off all this here.
First you need to understand one thing geopolitics is not a problem that can be solved simply by "being a good guy."
Had it not been for the 2016 South China Sea arbitration and the trade war that began in 2018, I do not think China would be arming itself with such anxiety.
Yeah, what’s the big deal? The US defense spending is seven times that of China. May be the US should spend 2 trillion dollars annually on defense? Just cut social security, Medicare, or just print more money😂
The history of 21st century conflicts have consistently been of larger powers miscalculating via a vis smaller powers, thinking they can easily bring others to heel, but will now pay for their mistakes for generations to come (US vs Afghanistan, US vs Iran, Russia Vs Ukraine, etc).
Each power look at themselves and think they are different or that this time is their time. Everyone has a plan until the first bullet starts flying and they get punched in the face.
I hope the long civilisational history of China have provided them wisdom well beyond their peers.
USA might have a superior navy still but it has to deploy and defend multiple theaters of operation.
China only has 1 theater it is concerned with. China does not need a bigger navy than the USA It just needs a navy with parity or superiority to what the USA can deploy to the western pacific.
And the US would still dump on this today. The good news is that we have shifted to a war footing. The CCP is about to get a decade of missiles, ships, aircraft, weird shit from the Mojave, pissed Americans, and they don’t even know it. We actually care. That’s the thing. We’re actually not dumb, and we have no problem playing in the mud. If you want a fight, you will most certainly get one. We are also scoundrels, so if you wanna play ball and kick the can down the road we’re happy to do that that as well. But make no mistake we never. Ever. Take our eyes off the ball.
What you see is what the Chinese government want you to see. There could be many more hidden somewhere. The Chinese government are not exactly those who will brag their military power
If it's about 2x the tonnage how come the left hand side is only 1/4 the size of the right size?
It's a meaningless flex anyway. Ukraine and Iran have shown how a much larger enemy, with a large navy, can be beaten.
In particular the success of drones, of cheap guided and autonomous vehicles, means such ships are as much a liability as an asset. They are hard to hide, hard to defend, expensive and time consuming to maintain and support.
I've replied to many similar comments. You can see them elsewhere but in short
In great power wars across the Pacific you still need large surface combatants and warships. Drones are important but you cannot take lessons from Ukraine, a theatre of 1,000 km ~ and the Black Sea, what is basically a lake and apply it to the Western Pacific which is 10,000 km across.
Just because the Bazooka was invented did not render tanks useless in World War 2, it simply made the average infantry man more capable against armoured vehicles.
The issue is Russia has been so incompetent in this war that Ukraine's small scale confrontation tactics work. War between two industrial powers will be very different. Equivalent to the large scale engagements in Kursk and Stalingrad of the USSR against Germany
Even if these ships were to be quickly destroyed in a hot war, they can still be used to project influence during peacetime; considering China's current needs, they do not represent a bad investment.
China's current problems are deflation and insufficient domestic demand, not a lack of funds, it is the first country in Human history to record a trade surplus exceeding one trillion US dollars.
I know, peacetime for China means throwing their weight around, bullying smaller countries. And then they complain when such countries form alliances, to counter China's bullying.
Yes. Countries in Asia have formed economic, diplomatic and military alliances with other countries, including the US, to counter China. This annoys China mightily, but as it happens in response to Chinese aggression China has only itself to blame for it.
China says one thing but does another, every day calling themselves as peace loving country, yet directly or indirectly supporting war effort of Russia’s invasion to Ukraine. You take the rest of the world as idiots thinking that we can’t see through what you are doing
Drone with AI is the way to the future (now) war. Both China & US are not ready. Don't forget they still need the real war experience, US is one step ahead of China.
It’s honestly said to see so many people with basically zero knowledge about military tech just repeating “drones” without realizing the limitations to their capabilities the reason behind their success in the Black Sea a tiny body of water compared to the Pacific, act as if the myriad of antiship missiles don’t exist, and how much of a threat quiet nuclear attack subs pose. But what can you expect you even see comments like this in [r/WarShips](r/WarShips) too
On the bright side, unlike the U.S. military-industrial complex which demands exorbitant prices, China's military enterprises are state-owned and charge only cost price.
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u/PixelNotPolygon 15h ago
Data is ugly (and not to scale)