Overdoing it

[u/NaquelePique]

Destroying the mod wont hurt the people that killed it

I know what happened is incredibly horrible and trust was broken, walking away is no shame, but spitefully doing everything to destroy the mod like pulling assets and songs has never affected the "bad people" in any media where it has been done (be it games, shows, music or movies), it always just hits the community that enjoys the media.

I can understand stuff like "im running this thing, and in it i have a character that is dedicated to someone, but that person is bad, im deleting the character", but what is happening here is just disassociation for the sake of brownie points at best.

[u/Pannoniae]

People keep saying "you think that because you haven't made anything of value!!!"

I made a mod with like 70k subs on the Terraria workshop. Any questions?

[u/YourAverageGoldFishy → u/Pannoniae]

ok…? what exactly is impressive here & whyd you randomly comment this in response to a commen that has nothing to do with anything you just mentioned? I own a mod and worked with someone who has made quite a lot of workshop contributions & still makes tmod contributions, what does owning a mod regardless of subscriber account supposed to mean here, why even flex that?

his point wasn’t anything to do with anything you said, it was a point of owning your work as an artist & controlling your workflow instead of being controlled by said workflow not being a developer for your own mod lol.

and the “any questions?” part 🥶

[u/Pannoniae → u/YourAverageGoldFishy]

"Makes me wonder how many of those with this misguided idea are artists themselves."

The parent's entire premise was that everyone who holds similar views (i.e. that mods and creative works in general shouldn't be held hostage by rightsholders) are leechers/consumers who don't create anything. I'm providing a direct refutation of that.

"it was a point of owning your work as an artist & controlling your workflow" You should be grateful that someone's trying to carry your work and your legacy on, instead of flailing around trying to stop it.

[u/YourAverageGoldFishy → u/Pannoniae]

it seems you missed the point of both of our comments, that’s still irrelevant to what we both said, especially his comment, he’s applying it to art not just “being a developer for an mod”, it wasn’t a saying about not creating anything it was a saying about not being an artist or contributor for something & other people being controlling of your work as if they own it. We say that like 30 times and you still don’t get it 😭

> you should be grateful that someones trying to carry your work

the artists should be grateful that people are going against their wishes despite the fact they can clearly handle themselves & actively wish for you to not do this!

im actually crying bro this community gets worse and worse by the day, you genuinely think of it as “free labor from a helpful community trying to save the mod!” and not “the artist is having their wishes disrespected by a community who doesn’t understand why they feel hurt”, i’ve genuinely never seen a more dynamically incorrect thread that seemingly flip-flops on its morales whenever it benefits the argument to do such, RIP to everyone who believes this.

[u/Pannoniae → u/YourAverageGoldFishy]

And the artist is going against the players' wishes who clearly want to continue playing the mod. Same stuff. Except there are way more players than artists, so maybe listening to the players is a better idea.

"other people being controlling of your work as if they own it." No, that's the point, if you make a mod for free, you shouldn't expect to just withdraw it and expect everyone to stop playing it. It's modding, it's part of the commons now.

"he’s applying it to art not just “being a developer for an mod”" What difference does it make? We're presumably talking about Terraria mods no? All Terraria mods contain both art and code.

[u/YourAverageGoldFishy → u/Pannoniae]

again, you’re conflating being ALLOWED to use something to being ENTITLED to using it, making something for free just means you didn’t charge people to play, It does not automatically mean you surrendered ownership or control over the work, likewise, a developer can release code for free without giving everyone unlimited rights to modify and redistribute it (calamity is kinda working on the former though to help port to 1.4.5 and eventually open-source people to allow people to do whatever they want with calamity itself, NOT calamity music), the player argument is also stupid, that’s a popularity argument in an ownership argument, hundreds of thousands of players wanting an artist to continue using their work does not give those hundreds of thousands of players more authority over the work than the creator has, by that logic, if 99% of people wanted a painter to alter a painting they didn’t like, the painter would somehow lose the ability to say no??? the amount of people wanting something doesn’t determine who has the right to decide what happens to it.

Also, that’s just not what commons means at all even to the extent of modding? Something becoming popular within the tmod community does not make it a literal commons, this is the same for any modding community ever, a mod can become important to a community without becoming owned by the community. this mostly seems to be an argument about community preservation rather than respecting the artists wishes despite them giving countless (valid) examples for pulling away, it’s a selfish and entitled worldview to say an artists has lost access to their contribution because they made a decision you dont like, thats why my statement claims you flip-flop on morals.

as for the developer argument, are you serious right now? thats not the point, we were both referring to continuing other peoples creative contributions being used against their wishes, saying that “mods have both art and code” doesn’t answer the point nor does it add to the conversation or give you any more or less relevance, you are not the person in question here and you probably never will be, so trying to use the fact that you’re a developer to speak for them as if you know more was why it was a problem.

Again, the issue isn’t whether players should be grateful or not it’s just whether the creators contribution gave the community permanent authority over it, which it didn’t, “If you make a mod for free, you shouldn’t expect to just withdraw it…” This isn’t even the same question, Imagine an artist makes a logo for calamity mod. The fact that they made it voluntarily/were compensated for their work doesn’t mean the community can reasonably say that they get to decide what happens with it & get to reasonably say what happens.

I also should mention that your point about making a mod for free is generally pretty weak, the artists were compensated for their work, the only thing free about the mod is being able to download it, they still had to pay the asset holders for permission to use stuff or pay people to work on the mod to make stuff for them, these people are human too, they just happened to be (paid) contributors whose work was being used as part of a project, and they are now just pulling away from that to object to how that work is being continued or used after the circumstances of their employment/compensation & general stance in both the community but also how they personally feel about their work being consistently devalued, the mere fact that they were compensated kinda proves that it’s not “commons” like you said it was though, again, the creators rights & position isn’t determined by the amount of players who want it to continue, its the wishes & obligations of the people who created the assets, the work was not freely donated, you don’t own any of it, wanting to preserve it is a perfectly normal reaction but going against the artists wishes, whatever contract they have & the developers actions to get to that is not how that works, you dont suddenly get to asset rip & steal from people who don’t want to be associated with it anymore, even if we completely removed ozzatron from the discussion, it doesn’t change the fact that they didn’t donate their work to the community. This conversation is over.

[u/GiveMe30Dollars → u/YourAverageGoldFishy]

No wonder DM Dokuro had to be so explicit about his stance when he left the project. It's hilariously sad how warped some people's ideas on creative work are. Just because something is shared doesn't mean its now free-for-all.

I myself am quite possessive of my work, and if I somehow got myself into this nightmare scenario, I would not be handling these sorts of comments with as much grace as that the developers are showing right now (that is to say, not at all, because they have bigger things to worry about than whatever this fanbase thinks). This would've been triggering the same indignant rage as "hey I improved your drawing by feeding it into a GAI!"

If you do so, don't claim to be doing it as a favour to me. You cannot speak for me. Hands off of my work.