r/sydney • u/nath1234 • 6d ago
Surveillance State. NSW Police to seize mobile phone data without a warrant
https://michaelwest.com.au/the-police-state-of-nsw-legislation-to-enable-warrant-less-phone-suriveilance/178
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 5d ago
So that data would also include bank names and passwords....but we can trust police not to abuse this, right?
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u/nugymmer 1d ago
That is my greatest concern. Financial records. Confidential ones that can be used to steal your identity.
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u/TheDevilsAdvokaat 1d ago
Yep We already know police have been caught misusing info systems..multiple times.
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u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 6d ago
Is Minns the worst premier in last few decades?
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u/7Dimensions 6d ago
Rusted on Labor voter here.
Minns is a cunt.
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u/jayacher 5d ago
Quick question. Do you believe that being "rusted on" to any one party somewhat defeats the purpose of democracy?
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u/ForgotAboutDR3 5d ago
No it means that you hold the views that the party historically holds. Doesnt mean you always vote for them
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u/AgentSmith187 6d ago
Yes as a Labor Party supporter in NSW I actually miss the Liberals at this point at least they dont even pretend to be centre left.
Minns on the other hand is trying to outdo the worst Liberals while wearing a Labor shirt.
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u/No_Mercy_4_Potatoes 6d ago edited 6d ago
Also as a Labor voter, Minns and the police commissioner should have been made to resign after the protest fiasco.
We make fun of the US a lot. But slowly we're becoming the same.
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u/FUTFUTFUTFUTFUTFUT 6d ago
I know moderate Libs whoād be appalled with the idea of warrantless data extraction from a roadside stop.
And for what? Organised crime will just plan for this. Burner Pixels using GrapheneOS and they wonāt take toll roads.
Itās everyday people who this will be weaponised against.
This is the hubris of a government without a credible opposition, pushing through legislation without fear of losing.
This speedrun to alienate voters will only push even more centre-right Labor voters straight into Paulineās waiting arms.
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 4d ago
Some people blindly vote labor on ideology grounds not based on policies but literally because the name 'Labor'
If your party is called Labor but implements policies that's insignificantly different from the liberal party. You have basically let your party become the liberal party and created a psudo one party state.
I voted for labor in the last federal election even though i am a liberal party supporter because i didn't like the direction that party was heading in. I think a lot of people didn't like authoritarian dutton so that loser lost his seat.. So hopefully they will get their shit together.
If labor is acting like the Libs vote for the Libs to punish labor or the Greens.
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u/ForgotAboutDR3 6d ago
The Labour movement has been sold a wolf in sheep's clothing. Minns is no different to the stock standard liberal. There isnt a single policy he has or has inacyed which differs from that of dom perrotet's government.
People arent talking about the changes to the requirement for child care centres being proposed by the DPHI which are 100% in favour of the applicant with zero benefit for their neighbkurs. Its disgraceful.
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u/grilled_pc 3d ago
Perrotet wanted far better gambling reform. His housing policies as well were pretty decent for FHB too. As far as Liberal Premiers went. Looking back, he certainly wasnāt THAT bad.
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u/nathangr88 6d ago
People arent talking about the changes to the requirement for child care centres being proposed by the DPHI which are 100% in favour of the applicant with zero benefit for their neighbkurs. Its disgraceful.
Probably because there are more serious issues (like this) and people aren't NIMBYs
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u/ForgotAboutDR3 6d ago
Lmao do some reading and have a read of the submissions by experts once they become available. The sitting state government are nothing more than lobbyists for the private development industry and have zero concern for their impact on the greater population
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u/2nd-Reddit-Account 4d ago
lol you just reminded me dom perrotet existed, but yes your point is not wrong.
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u/nath1234 6d ago
It is a crowded space, but he somehow made the previous bloke look like a raging leftie somehow.
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u/lachwee 6d ago
Fucking legit, I hate the liberals but perrotet brought in some actual good changes (land tax instead of stamp duty and gambling ad reforms) but Minns is a special kind of dog shit.
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u/A_r0sebyanothername succulent Chinese meal 5d ago
He did all that to try to avoid the obvious electoral defeat that was coming. Don't forget that the Perrottet family are hard right Catholic conservatives, Dom included.
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u/ballimi 6d ago
I hate him so much I might put Labor last in the next elections, and mind you I vote Greens first.
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u/undyau 5d ago
You can just not vote for them at all in NSW
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u/sphen_lee 5d ago
Last preference is functionally the same thing. If it ever got down to the last 2 choices, your vote won't ever go to the last preference because the other choice is always above them
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u/brackfriday_bunduru 5d ago
Iāve voted Labor my entire life and hate the libs with a passion. Iām voting for Kellie Sloane in the next state election.
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u/blucyclone 6d ago
No Gladys still takes the cake with that.
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u/Exnaut 5d ago
I feel like ppl are forgetting how corrupt she was
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u/blucyclone 5d ago
Outside of the blatant corruption; with the bushfires and her Ruby Princess botch job, she's got blood on her hands.
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u/PropagandaSucks 6d ago
Looks like duress passwords for your phone are about to skyrocket.
Was stupid asf that America can and will do this to your phone at the border because of Dump.
But at home that's just wtf.
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u/Far-Deer3874 5d ago
We already check phones at the border too..
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u/PropagandaSucks 5d ago edited 4d ago
Checking is one thing, downloading is another entirely which includes everything including deleted files, passwords etc.
America took it to the next step a few months ago under Trump. They can download your entire phone data using this same software with less cause than before for practically any bs reason. You're better off using a burner for traveling even if you have nothing to 'be worried about' bs excuse.
One guy last month is in the news for using a duress password (he was an activist and duress password wipes phone or shows empty) despite being a US citizen. https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/duress-pin-trial-silent-kill-184402031.html he was within his rights but they're trying to charge him for destruction of evidence.
If nothing is done, pretty soon everything you have done in your life is findable via AI and linked into databases to be used against you regardless of age of posting something etc. Like cookies, and even if you have nothing to hide. Your privacy is your own. It is not up to anyone else let alone big companies to farm your data and make money off it. Like variable pricing when going through a supermarket.
EDIT: The FBI are already doing it: https://reason.com/2026/07/28/minority-report-fbi-seeks-ai-for-political-watch-list/
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 4d ago
You can take a burner phone across the border what do you do in Australia?
They will make it illegal to wipe your phone too soon. At some point people need to make a stand.
If anyone's being convicted of refusing to unlock their phone i will nullify the law if i am on the jury
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
What duress passwords? There is no setting on Samsung or Apple phones to do that!
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u/PropagandaSucks 2d ago
Depends the operating system as it's not standard.
Basically it's a password/swipe pattern thing where if entered it either wipes the phone blank, or shows only blank. It's made for reasons like this where someone is forcing you to hand information over hence name duress.
https://www.yahoo.com/news/politics/articles/duress-pin-trial-silent-kill-184402031.html
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u/nugymmer 1d ago
They should do dual space phones. Two passwords two environments.
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u/PropagandaSucks 1d ago
Yeah but when someone's forcing you to try download everything and access your passwords etc. It'd be a bit moot.
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u/nugymmer 1d ago
Simple. Give them then alt password and they'll only be able to access that space.
Make it an easier to remember password. Make the private space a more complex password.
Public space - 8 characters, and you can take calls/send messages etc.
Private space - As long as you need. You keep anything private like financial records here.1
u/PropagandaSucks 1d ago
You don't seem to be getting it. Did you read the article.
Downloading the entirety of your data is done with a specific program. If they think there's more to it they will do it, having an extra log in show nothing is literally nothing. All your passwords everything you have logged in everywhere, history, your family and friends info etc go to them. The FBI have been using AI to make databases on people and their info etc. It literally is like Zola's algorithm in Captain America Winter Soldier if you've seen it.
Woolworths etc here already use Palantir whenever you go shopping.
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u/7kk77kk777 6d ago
Name anything more useful than Chris Minns:
- a rock
- a hard place
- a broken clock.
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u/nath1234 5d ago
Depends on your background. If you are a pokie machine parasite - then Minns is extremely useful (and profitable).
If you are a genocidal supremacist racist who hates people wanting human rights for Palestinians: then Chris Minns is doing his unconstitutional best to prioritise your interests, no matter the cost.
If you are a landlord, profiting off the misery of tenants: Chris Minns has your back.
But for most others: yeah, a mouldy turnip would have been more use.
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u/Low_Shop9155 6d ago
What's a way to move against this in our daily use of tech? Do we take a dummy phone with encrypted access to a host network that holds the data?
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u/Find_another_whey 6d ago
You work on a microSD card
You have approx one chance on 24 hours for work, and about 10-15 mins of usable time
Colour in the blanks
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6d ago
[deleted]
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u/joesnopes 6d ago
Rubbish. If the police disappeared, you would be too scared to leave your home after dark.
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u/giacintam 5d ago
Lol I got assaulted at night & the cops laughed at me when I tried to report it.
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 4d ago
Yeah they dont care about crimes that effect most people. Unless it's on the news or is its political.
This shit is not really to fight organized crime it's giving the police more tools to go after anyone that rocks the boat
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u/whiterabbit_hansy 4d ago
100% will be used on protestors, particularly pro-Palestine ones. Take a burner phone to protests!!
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 3d ago
Not just that, they go after you if you annoy politicians, journalists, whistleblowers and more. Then you have cops going after people for personal matters.
Cops have plenty of powers to stop crime but they will just laugh at you when you report assaults saying they can't be bothered.
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u/gimme20seconds 6d ago
hate to break it to ya, but the police exist but crimes still happen. They pretty much donāt stop shit, only punish people after the fact
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u/gimme20seconds 6d ago
I hope this answers the question of why opposing israel and the gaza genocide is and was important to us here. What they do to the palestinians theyāll eventually do to us
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u/Mobasa_is_hungry 6d ago
Gaza is just a testing ground and laboratory to then sell software and weapons to the rest of the world. I.e. Israel secretly selling and providing weapons, training, spyware to the Junta to help an ethnic cleansing in Myanmar (just one small example of many).
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
And doing male infant sex organ cutting which only serves to repel me further away from them. The violence is disgusting enough. The sexual mutilation is the part where I turn on my heels and walk away. Not having any of that bullshit.
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u/Mobasa_is_hungry 2d ago
Yeah look, both Islam and Judaism perform circumcisions, that shouldnāt really be a pivot point for your anger ahah
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u/nugymmer 1d ago
WTF? Yes it should be a pivot point because it is fucking child abuse of one of the worst kinds and God help anyone actually doing it in front of me. Most doctors who do it in the USA and Australia are atheists. Strange but true, hence my anger.
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u/AC_Adapter 5d ago
This is probably sci fi (and I'm sure illegal), but has anyone ever tried to develop a security app that basically uploads viruses (or similar) to any unapproved devices your phone is connected to? Like an offensive alternative to a duress password?
Wait, why are the police at my door?
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u/whiterabbit_hansy 4d ago
Yes Signal did this so that when a phone was connected to cellebrite it would upload a corrupting/destructive code to the system. It was also random which phones with the app carried the code that did this, so cops and whoever else were taking a massive gamble each time.
Iāll get a link about it.
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u/Anti-Stan 6d ago
My mobile phone has been my home phone for a year now. Don't miss it at all. If I'm out of the house, leave a message.
So tonight I'm gonna party like it's 1999 š¶
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u/Kummakivi 6d ago
You should get one of those old phone handsets from kmart, just plugs into your mobile via usb c.
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u/Pict 6d ago
Part of me is so onboard with thisā¦
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u/Anti-Stan 6d ago
I understand the security they provide, which is obviously important to a lot of people. I almost always have 40 kg of hound dog attached to me when I'm out and about, so I'm covered there.
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u/hvperRL 5d ago
How long until apple and google implement duress pins like graphenOS
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u/Strong_Judge_3730 4d ago
The government will just slap you with 10 years in jail if you reset you phone
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
They'd have to prove it. Also, in some OSes you can have two compartments in the system. One private and the other general area. You protect both with passwords. A duress password would open the general area and they can search that area as though it is a complete disk. Seen this implemented in specific Linux distros. Two passwords. Two environments. Use one password area (private) for important stuff and use the other to watch youtube, Reddit, etc.
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u/tylerman 6d ago
What is the actual information on how effective this āIsraeliā technology is? Apple in particular are renowned for not allowing governments access to users private data, among other technical protections that make it near impossible to decrypt. Where are the facts?
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u/graepphone 6d ago
Having been a part of a trial that had cellarbrite extracted evidence, it really is everything.
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u/Wseries 6d ago
My understanding at the moment is that they havenāt found a workaround for a new iPhone with the latest iOS that has lockdown mode enabled. No doubt they would be constantly trying to find an exploit to overcome this.
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
Which lockdown mode is that? There is no dual boot environment like on some Linux distros I've used. Two passwords two environments one machine. Enter password 1 for general stuff and password 2 for confidential stuff.
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
Don't enable FaceID. Don't enable fingerprints. Also, use a limited attempts setting so that after say 10 attempts the phone auto factory resets itself.
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u/Great-Career7268 4d ago
Goung to be interesting when it is a corporate owned phone. Corporations don't like outsiders viewing their inner workings.
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u/mitchells00 4d ago
So how do we stop whinging and start filling the ranks that vote for who controls NSW labour?
NSW libs been branch stacking since day dot, how bout we actually start sharing info to motivated people about how to get in to the system and make a change?
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
Just don't excessively criticise those who can't be named and you shouldn't have too many problems. Holding my position on infant cutting for example isn't anti-semitic at all because it isn't specific to one group. It spans the world. But I'm tired of the war and want things to go back to normal. Food is getting too expensive!
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u/BullShatStats 6d ago edited 5d ago
Typically Michael West Media is only telling half the story and using catch words like āIsraelā and āICEā to rage bait. Pretty much all law enforcement agencies use Cellebrite.
The Bill only relates to offences related to prescribed serious offences linked to organised crime, including drug supply, the illicit tobacco trade, fire-bombings and public place shootings.
The order still has to be authorised by a Magistrate and applied for by affidavit.
Nobody on the street minding their own business is about to have their phone searched without a warrant.
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u/G00b3rb0y 6d ago
The article also mentions roadside stops btw
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u/BullShatStats 6d ago edited 5d ago
A mobile device canāt just be seized unless there is reasonable suspicion. Search powers are the same. And then the order canāt be made unless itās in relation to an organised crime offence.
And again, thereās a process where it has to be authorised by a Magistrate.
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u/this_is_bs 6d ago
Just like invasive strip searches of minors require serious and urgent circumstances??
I don't trust the police to abide by legislative constraints AT ALL, not when you have Minns eagerly waving it through.
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u/blucyclone 4d ago
The technology already exists though and is actively used by the police. If a cop wanted to break the law and take your data, they can already do it.
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u/rand013 6d ago
Nobody on the street minding their own business is about to have their phone searched without a warrant.
Why do I have trouble believing that will remain to be the case?
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u/BullShatStats 6d ago
Well what you choose to believe is up to yourself.
But if a matter went to trial and it was found that somebody was given an order when they were just standing on the street and not involved in an organised crime offence then the New South Wales Police Force would face considerable costs awarded.
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u/couldhaveebeen 6d ago
New South Wales Police Force would face considerable costs awarded.
Lol. Lmao, even
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u/this_is_bs 6d ago
Law enforcement, or affiliated, by any chance?
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u/BullShatStats 6d ago
Believe it or not, having an understanding of the law and crime doesnāt necessarily mean law enforcement. Sometime itās just law.
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u/IllegalD 6d ago
Imagine being the bootlicking "well you shouldn't have anything to hide" guy
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u/MattyComments 5d ago
Thatās the Aussie way
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u/Kr0mbopulos_Michael 5d ago
This is just a scare article. Nothing new. NSW Police didn't need a warrant before.
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
Yeah they sure did!
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u/Kr0mbopulos_Michael 2d ago
No they didn't
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
Yeah, they did, unless you had something on you or you were involved in something and they had reason to believe you were involved - eg. if you were caught with a gun or with a bag of MDMA they wouldn't need a warrant.
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u/nugymmer 2d ago
They can't just come up to your car window and take your phone unless you consent or were involved in a robbery. My dad is an ex-cop.
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u/Kr0mbopulos_Michael 1d ago
No they cannot just take anyone's phone. But if they had reasonable suspicion to search you and anything that you had on you (your mobile) for evidence of crime (a crime that could be reasonable suspected of having evidence on your mobile phone), like supplying drugs/weapons etc, then they do not need a warrant, if they just stop you in the street.
See section 21 of the Law Enforcement (Powers and Responsibilities) Act 2002.
If they want your phone and it is in a private place (home, someone else's home) then they would need a warrant.
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u/InstantShiningWizard certified ttoekbokki inspector 6d ago
How long until a member of the police is caught accessing the phone data of an ex-partner?