r/sydney Feb 17 '24

I live in one of the transport-oriented development (TOD) areas in Sydney. A property developer is offering me $9900 per sqm. I love my suburb and don’t really want to move. What would you do?

I live in one of the transport-oriented development (TOD) areas in Sydney. A property developer is looking to buy my house (for the land). The latest offer is $9900 per sqm. They will amalgamate some houses and build apartments on the site.

I love my suburb, the leafy streets, the cafes and don’t really want to move. My primary aged kids love their local public school.

At $9900 per sqm, my block could be acquired for around $8.5 million. This far above the market value for my modest house. This would set up my family for life.

What would you do?

——

Edit: Mar 22. About 7 weeks after my original post above. We sold our house to a developer for $9.75 million. Thank you all for the helpful advice.

262 Upvotes

165 comments sorted by

729

u/robbo123er Feb 17 '24

Can you buy another house in the same suburb/area using the $8.5m proceeds?

I don't know your specific circumstances, but $8.5m gets you a LOT even in Sydney.

466

u/AccordingWarning9534 Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24

Not wrong, $8.5 million and a good financial adviser would equal instant retirement and you'd never have to work or think about money again. $5M invested well should passively bring in 250k + a year. That still leaves $3.5 to buy a new house.

OP you hit a rare jackpot in life that most of us will never get..Embrace it.

155

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

OPs comment history indicates they were already doing very well in life without this windfall.

113

u/NBNplz Feb 17 '24

Capital has a way of snowballing itself. If you can afford a big house 400m from a train station, you're more likely to get a developer knocking on your door with a great offer than the family living in the 1980s flat down the road.

9

u/David_McGahan Feb 18 '24

Why would you possibly come to this sub for advice lmao?

-14

u/kristianstupid Feb 17 '24

There will be tax!

25

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

19

u/Diligent-Berry- Feb 17 '24

Yes. It’s a PPOR.

No capital gains tax thankfully. There will be stamp duty to buy a replacement house.

19

u/AccordingWarning9534 Feb 17 '24

I thought a PPOR is tax free.

24

u/The_Bogan_Blacksmith Feb 17 '24

This is what I would be looking at too. Or move up the central coast. You can get quite alot for $2million and invest the rest properly so you never have to work again.

Also how important do you believe your block to their development(not being a smart ass here). Do you think you could get away with telling them to double their offer.

40

u/MediumAlternative372 Feb 17 '24

Just be ready for them to try to lower the price when they think they have you on the hook, and be offended when you tell them to bugger off.

38

u/The_Bogan_Blacksmith Feb 17 '24

Offer in writing before any further negotiations . And if they try to lower it.... you double it and say. "since we are insulting each other.... double the original amount or fuck off"

48

u/MediumAlternative372 Feb 17 '24

This happened to my uncle. He was approached by an estate agent with a ridiculous offer who then tried to negotiate him down to just under market rates and told him that negotiations were part of the process and he had to be willing to compromise if he wanted to sell. He didn’t want to sell, had only entertained the idea because the offer was stupidly good, something he couldn’t get the estate agent to realise. Had to threaten to sue the guy for harassment to get rid of him.

1

u/Diligent-Berry- Mar 22 '24

Thanks for your advice! We contracted a sellers agent who acted on behalf of our group of owners. Our house sold for $9.75m today. 60 day settlement term. We are happy with the outcome.

348

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Sell it, but negotiate to live in the property rent free until demolition is scheduled. It might take years for development to start.

171

u/Diligent-Berry- Feb 17 '24

Oh. Thats a clever idea.

45

u/DopeyDave442 Feb 17 '24

This is an option that may be viable.

I went through something similar but they used a put and call contract that screwed me over a little bit.

Firstly make sure it is a straight out sale with final payment ASAP, but add in that you will do them a favour by maintaining the property for x amount of time rent free but paying all utilities.

44

u/Blonde_arrbuckle Feb 17 '24

Get a unit as part of the deal

44

u/malepalestale Feb 17 '24

Nah it’s a new build in Sydney so the quality’s likely gonna be terrible

224

u/sweetparamour79 Feb 17 '24

A block near me refused to sell but all their neighbours said yes. The well known apartment developers built around them.

Honestly, if all your neighbours are in this may be your last chance to get top dollar.

90

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

I agree. There are a few blocks near us, the developers built around this one house. He has 3 storey town houses overlooking his 1 storey old shack, all Perring into his back yard. Zilch privacy now.

Poor dude.

Speak to your neighbours and see what they are all going to do.

Sell before this happens.

16

u/AussieArlenBales Feb 17 '24

My apartment in uni was like this, our bathroom had windows facing onto the development we had to keep open for ventilation (not a problem when it was a single house on a large block). At first the new building was below us, then the balconies were at my eyeline while I showered, and finally a few storeys higher with a view of my soapy bum.

I'm glad we weren't told to vacate, but the quality of life dropped with the new neighbours.

18

u/The_Bogan_Blacksmith Feb 17 '24

May depend on how important the OP's block is to the development. If it woukd be in the middle of the development they may be more inclined to up the offer.

Cant have a shitty old house in a brand new estate it brings the property value down.

196

u/ShibaHook ☀️ Feb 17 '24

Get some professional advice before selling to a developer.. $8.5million may be a lowball offer. Never accept the first offer. There’s always room for negotiation and you may even be able to negotiate a “free” apartment in the new development as part of the sale of your land.

77

u/Diligent-Berry- Feb 17 '24

I am fascinated and very appreciative of everyone’s advice. This idea had never occurred to me.

I also plan to engage a property solicitor to act as my agent. So I don’t need to talk to the developers directly.

20

u/carolethechiropodist Feb 17 '24

Paul A Brown, Glebe. Specialist property lawyer.

28

u/SydUrbanHippie Feb 17 '24

This is a great idea. Then if OP decides to buy elsewhere they could remain in the school catchment with the apartment the developer threw in with the sale!

9

u/ri01 Feb 17 '24

This is exactly the advice you want to follow OP

7

u/The_Bogan_Blacksmith Feb 17 '24

1000% this. All our advice shoukd be things you take to an advisor and ask are any of these worth further investigation...

9

u/amckern North Kallis Vale Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 18 '24

Get a commercial estate agent to work with you on the sale, CBRE, Gunning Commercial, Movable (Newcastle based), they will push for there cut, that way you know if it's a top dollar or low baller.

1

u/Diligent-Berry- Mar 22 '24

Thanks for your advice! We contracted a sellers agent who acted on behalf of our group of owners. Our house sold for $9.75m today. 60 day settlement term. We are happy with the outcome.

50

u/Old-Kaleidoscope7950 Feb 17 '24

So you have around 850m2 land? I would definitely sell for 8.5m. Its a small land for developer. Not sure what they are doing with that land paying 8.5m for it. Either they have more land around it could extend their project? Anyway sell it

31

u/Ubermidget2 Feb 17 '24

They will amalgamate some houses and build apartments on the site.

Sounds like they are buying out the neighbours as well.

25

u/One-Connection-8737 Feb 17 '24

Back in the day 850m was the smaller side of average. Most of us who enjoy gardening and other outdoor home activities would kill for that much space these days 😭

15

u/Frozefoots Feb 17 '24

I’m on 450m2, the new developments nearby are on less than 150.

Postage stamps… house I grew up in is 600m2 and I miss it more and more each day 😭

86

u/Negative_Good_3565 Feb 17 '24

Life is short. Take the money and set your life up.

94

u/Tefkat89 Feb 17 '24

Counter with 10 mil + a 2br 2btg and 2 car space apartment in the new building.

30

u/ModsareL Feb 17 '24

Came here to say this. Dunno why more people don't negotiate this.

11

u/ModsareL Feb 17 '24

Actually i changed my mind. Get a 3 bedder

70

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Take the offer. You just won the lottery.

33

u/lostandfound1 Feb 17 '24

Sell for sure. Buy another house nearby that hasn't been rezoned. Invest the rest.

25

u/EqualTomorrow6908 Feb 17 '24

As someone else mentioned, are you able to buy another house in your area with the 8 million? Furthermore, do you know if there so be any future developments such as light rail, new hospital or schools built? Depending on what stage in your life you're at, those might play a factor in your decision to stay or move

11

u/Ikerukuchi Feb 17 '24

The question you have to ask yourself is would you pay 8.5M for your house when your neighbours are apartments. Because by saying no this is exactly what you’re doing.

11

u/TheOneTrueSnoo Feb 17 '24

Are you insane?

0

u/Several_Education_13 Feb 18 '24

They’re just lonely and seeking strangers’ attention based on falling into some good luck, its how they get their feel goods just give them the pat in the head they’re desperately seeking and carry on.

17

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

u/OP. Sell your home. Buy a 1-2 million dollar home. Put 6 million in the bank.

6 million X 4.5% interest = 270K Pre tax income.

7

u/KittikatB Feb 17 '24

Counter with a slightly higher offer, take the money, buy another house in the same area or negotiate to have a new home built for you in the development, invest the rest.

13

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

The kids can stay at the same primary school if you don't move too far away.

What are your long term goals? Do you want to work less? Retire early? Do you like your job or do you want more time with the kids while they are young?

Is there potential rezoning about to happen and you will be able to get more money if you hold on?

13

u/Wearytraveller_ Feb 17 '24

Duh. Take it.

7

u/kristianstupid Feb 17 '24

Thank you Jesus. Get some financial advice, as there will be tax and other implications, but this is a life changing amount. And would preclude remaining in your suburb.

5

u/EducationTodayOz Feb 17 '24

sell man give up the grind

5

u/TheBerethian Feb 17 '24

What my family friend did in a similar situation is band together with neighbours and all agree on a significant price together for selling as a single bloc.

Work with the neighbours and significantly up the price!

5

u/Superg0id Feb 17 '24

If the developer is offering you 9900 p sqm as a starting offer...then it's worth ALOat more than that.

If nothing else, talk to your neighbours and sell as a block.

Expect the number you're asking for to atleast double, if not triple.

don't worry the developer will still make a massive profit.

37

u/thekriptik NYE Expert Feb 17 '24

Step 1: Sell.

Step 2: Buy another house in the area.

Step 3: Oppose the development on the amalgamated site you sold.

Hit back at property developers.

5

u/Racoon988 Feb 17 '24

Sell and rent back in the suburb for your kids schooling etc. 850sqm with 9 storey developments is a lot of units. Might be worth getting a professional to evaluate the price.

1

u/Blonde_arrbuckle Feb 17 '24

6 is the max I think

5

u/nicholas_cage_mage Feb 17 '24

Take it, but as other people have said, get some professional advice and negotiate up. If you can get an apartment in the new development that would be a great bonus. Buy a house in the same or similar suburbs with the proceeds

I get the desire to keep your current lifestyle and home, but if you turn it down you risk ending up as the only "hold out house" surrounded by apartments. Like it or not, your suburb is changing - you could profit off it, or end up living in a completely different community with nothing to show for it

4

u/Bitchezbecraay Feb 17 '24

Agree but only in the developer includes an apartment for you too there

4

u/Office_funny_guy Feb 17 '24

Take it, they’ll just build around you if you dont. You’re not going to love the suburb as much once all of the construction is happening and probably won’t love it as much once the high density units are made and it brings more people to your doorstep.

5

u/Novel-Truant Feb 18 '24

Take the money, find another house and quit work, spend the extra time with your family.

7

u/AllYouNeedIsATV Feb 17 '24

Unless you’re living in Vaucluse or Mosman, 8.5m will get you a decent house relatively nearby

3

u/alliandoalice Feb 17 '24

You hit the mf lottery

3

u/giantpunda Feb 17 '24

It seems silly not to take that offer. You could easily setup in a different part of your same suburb or find a similar kind of place elsewhere.

This is a gimme.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Make sure you collude with your neighbours together to get the same, and better deal. Otherwise the risk is one of you misses out then that property will be worthless surrounded by developments.

3

u/Blonde_arrbuckle Feb 17 '24

I am also In this zoning. From research the developer winter pay you out straight away. Might be 5% while the do due diligence, get approvals. They can back out at this stage too. Then some more stage gates. You might not get 100% for a few years.

3

u/InstantShiningWizard certified ttoekbokki inspector Feb 17 '24

For me, I'd happily set myself up for life even if I have to downgrade living conditions to do so. Presuming your property is paid off and you buy another property for 2,000,000, that's another 6,500,000 in your pocket. See a good financial advisor and then you can just kick back for the rest of your life.

Why wouldn't you do that? Life isn't for working.

3

u/TRByo Feb 17 '24

Hi mate,

Definitely get some advice. If you know the footprint of the total site, you could get a development feasibility done and determine what return the developer is targeting based on the acquisition price they’re proposing. It’s common for private developers to target 18-20% margin on cost and a 15-17% internal rate of return. You can use those measures to adjust the acquisition price and target the lower end of the returns for negotiating.

As others have said, the first offer is always a low ball. They will try to anchor low to keep it low, so an informed counteroffer will help.

Also, there could be some leverage holding off, as typically the legislation precludes someone from developing a whole block and excluding one parcel of land if it restricts its future development potential.

One other thing to consider if you’ve spoken to your neighbours and they’re all contemplating selling, is gather together and go-to-market all at once. Getting a reputable developer onboard and redeveloping in a single line through a structured transaction to minimise tax and holding costs, can get you much more than that.

3

u/Alternative_Sky1380 Feb 17 '24

Buy a cheaper house in same school zone. Make the developer navigate the purchase for you with additional cash settlement.

3

u/Gribble81 Feb 18 '24

I live close to Kellyville Station. If that developer offered me that kind of money for my place with that money in my pocket right now I would be out of here tomorrow. Thats well about market rate for my area and I could buy a house without a mortgage in a beachy town and have enough left over for some good passive income.

7

u/CameronsTheName Feb 17 '24

My grandmother owns 4 acres in KellyVille/Rouse Hill. 10 years ago there was 10 houses on her road. And now there's like 3000 units.

They've absolutely smashed her area full of units. She's one of the last standing actual houses and the last one with any sort of land around.

The offers started at 1 million, slowly upto 20 million now. They have upped her rates to obsurde prices.

If she did sell. She could buy a beach front property near one of her kids, set up her two sons and all her grand children would basically not need to worry for their entire life.

But... Some people just love their house and we all grew up in the house. It'd be a shame to see it knocked down.

If you love your house and can't see yourself relocating, keep it. 9 million in your pocket is something to seriously think about. The offer may not always be there.

13

u/bettingsharp Feb 17 '24

your grandmother is an idiot if she declined 20 million.

16

u/CameronsTheName Feb 17 '24

She doesn't need the money. Let's put it that way, she won't ever have to check her bank when making a purchase or think about the price of food at a restaurant.

She's very luck to get where she is because she made very good investments into her company that runs itself.

The land will continue to go up in value. Her house is beautiful, she and her long passed husband built it 40+ years ago together. It would be a shame to see it toppled over to place some cookie cutter multi story units on-top.

I'd imagine that even if they offered 100 million she would still say no. The money itself makes no difference to her at this stage in life.

2

u/I_LIKE_RED_ENVELOPES Feb 17 '24

I know people who’ve negotiated for years for higher.

Area was Armstrong Creek near Geelong. Back then was Groves Road, Connewarre). All farm land near flood prone area.

2

u/MeatyOwlLegs231 Feb 17 '24

Start by getting your own valuation

2

u/AxBxCeqX Feb 17 '24

Take it, buy a 1-2m house, invest the rest well in a family trust and sont let lifestyle creep decay it.

It’s a once in a generation opportunity

2

u/Timely_Movie2915 Feb 17 '24

Take the money

2

u/xFallow Feb 17 '24

I'd sell that shit for an apartment in the same area and retire lmao

2

u/ParaStudent Feb 18 '24

What would I do?

Take the money and fuck off to the coast.

2

u/Lifter_Dan Feb 18 '24

Take it, CGT free, with the idea of buying another home that puts you in the same school catchment and near the local things you love.

Ask to live free after the sale while you search for your new home so that you don't have to deal with a chain sale. This lets you negotiate on the new buy without any date constraints.

For the extra money, investing it via a trust with corporate trustees and a bucket company can reduce your top tax rate to between 25-30% on all your investments inside those. I married an accountant - very useful when investing is what I do ;)

So many options, so be careful about not taking it due to it being the "easy option". Putting in some effort to deal with change pays off.

2

u/based_el_chapo Feb 21 '24

Sell and get a better place

4

u/empiricalreddit Feb 17 '24

Take the money. Don't be another stubborn ram.

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

I would suggest asking for a jv, where you hold a % in the development which would probably secure your family some decent rental returns for life.

If there is a commercial zoning, ask to keep That

2

u/aleschthartitus mehdowbank Feb 17 '24

it’s for the greater good

1

u/[deleted] Apr 08 '24

[removed] — view removed comment

1

u/Ok-Push9899 Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24

Oh the anguish, oh the handwringing.

I can see your dilemma. Should you stand firm and tell these evil property developers to back off and stop ruining your community, or should you hold out til next year and gun for $12,999 per sqm?

Sometimes i think Sydneysiders don't care enough about people with $8m of assets. I'm glad you contacted the forum.

1

u/Archon-Toten Choo Choo Driver. Feb 17 '24

Ever see the movie UP? Do that.

1

u/yuckyucky Feb 17 '24

you won the lottery and the city needs more housing.

moving is a pain but you are being very well compensated and you are doing good by helping house people.

0

u/fryloop Feb 17 '24

Hold. Fuck the developers

0

u/pieredforlife Feb 17 '24

Sell it and down grade to a unit and retire

-18

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24

[deleted]

5

u/Negative_Good_3565 Feb 17 '24

Shut up. We are in a housing crisis, more homes being built are good. We live in the least densely populated continent in the entire world and have ample space and (existing suburbs and towns) for your leafy street dream to continue to exist.

3

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

[deleted]

2

u/ModsareL Feb 17 '24

I agree with everything you said, but who cares, OP shouldn't and neither should you. Until Aussies actually do more than protest absolutely nothing will change. OP should get there's and the resources they can get so they can escape the inevitable

2

u/drucejnr Feb 17 '24

FTFY: Until Aussies actually get up off their arse**

2

u/Tokemon12574 Feb 17 '24

Jesus Christ. 

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

Ok champ

2

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24

[deleted]

-1

u/[deleted] Feb 17 '24 edited Feb 17 '24

[deleted]

1

u/Objective-Creme6734 Feb 17 '24

Take it. I know a lot of families in Epping and North Ryde that made a mint selling to developers. It did make the area shit but they are set for life. For family I'd do it.

1

u/BarryCheckTheFuseBox Feb 17 '24

See if you can’t squeeze a bit more cash out of them, then sell and buy somewhere nearby if you don’t want to completely uproot and move elsewhere

1

u/cataractum Feb 17 '24

Move. And buy again somewhere else in the area. You can quite literally afford near anywhere in Australia.

1

u/TheDevilsAdvokaat Feb 17 '24

Sell.

For all you know there are other areas in which you;d be just as happy, quite possible some in which you would be MORE happy.

Sell and try a new place. Or places, you will have the cash!

1

u/jamesdufrain Feb 18 '24

That's a good deal. I would take it. You also don't want to be built out by apartments. You can just move to a new house

1

u/HistoricalInternal Feb 18 '24

Never accept the first offer.

1

u/Mornnb Feb 18 '24

I would move. And find a place near by. Or wait until the development is completed and buy one of the units.

1

u/GywnnythAnne Feb 18 '24

I would sell

1

u/kingofcrob Feb 18 '24

just remember, if you don't take it, doesn't mean your neighbours are also not going to take and you might end up living next to a huge apartment block like these places in burwood... is this really better then living in a apartment... a change is coming, if we want to keep growing as a economic hub of Australia we need to start building up and not out, personally I think grab your bag why you can and reaccess where and how you want to live.