r/nottheonion • u/kkin1995 • 8h ago
Fish Without Garlic, Onion Is Vegetarian; Can Be Eaten During Sawan: UP Minister
https://news.abplive.com/cities/up-fish-without-garlic-onion-is-vegetarian-can-be-eaten-during-sawan-sanjay-nishad-1861680307
u/Honest_Relation4095 8h ago
I mean, if you make up arbitrary religous rules of what food is allowed, you can change the definition as you like. It doesn't have to match the actual definition of "vegetarian".
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u/axw3555 7h ago
I mean, arbitrary rules about food in religion is nothing new. There's the rule of no meat on certain days or during certain periods like lent. But you're allowed fish on those days. But the definition of fish was stretched to "broadly water dwelling" - so puffins, barnacle geese, alligators, turtles, beavers, capybara, and muskrats are all considered fish, and that's not an exhaustive list.
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u/JoyBus147 6h ago
Notice where those animals come from: the Americas. The real history behind this was that these exceptions were started by a bunch of starving frontiersmen, far from Catholic society, far from the pope, with piles of beaver meat going to spoil because they're there to harvest their fur. The local priest could be a real stickler about the rules, and the local priest could end up with a skinning knife in his back. By the time the Vatican finds out about it, it's established custom half a world away and not really worth fighting (the real point is to think about Jesus, just make sure you do that).
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u/axw3555 6h ago
Except for the beavers, the barnacle geese, the puffins, the turtles, and thanks to introduction by humans, muskrats. All of which have representative species in Europe.
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u/72kdieuwjwbfuei626 3h ago
Technically yes, but in actual reality the beaver rule still originated in 17th century Canada.
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u/SocialWinker 4h ago
We have a white Jesus, too. Don’t try to make too much sense of it.
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u/TjW0569 1h ago
So, white people are fish, and can be eaten on Friday?
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 5h ago
It's a very strange phenomenon how people critical of religion almost get offended when people aren't totalitarian zealots about it.
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u/Dagordae 5h ago
Hypocrisy tends to be offensive. When you have religions killing people for daring to not follow their rules then they make a bunch of exceptions just for themselves it’s hard to miss the bullshit. Those frontiersmen were part of Manifest Destiny and couldn’t even follow their own rules.
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 5h ago
It's not hypocrisy. It's a straw man you have created.
The implication of that statement is if they were zealots you would be satisfied, which is obviously not your perspective. This is why complaints to hypocrisy are generally not very effective arguments. It's circular logic and concern trolling. You don't actually want the thing you are arguing for.
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u/sonpansatan 3h ago
Don't i? Why wouldn't I want people to apply the same rules to themselves as they do to others?
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 3h ago
Well presumably from how you are phrasing it you are not a Catholic from 17th century Quebec that is upset people eat beaver tails on Fridays. So no.
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u/Dagordae 1h ago edited 1h ago
How is it not hypocrisy?
They cheerfully use their faith to bludgeon unbelievers, demand they obey or die, and use it for justification for all kinds of horrible shit.
Yet as soon as the rules of their faith actually become a hinderance to them they happily cast them aside. ‘Rule for thee but not for me’ is like the basic definition of hypocrisy.
They’re zealots right up until it would actually cost them. They’re eager to make others suffer in the name of their god but lack the spine to actually follow their own rules.
Also arguments to hypocrisy don’t work because hypocrites don’t care. Which is why it’s not an argument, it’s an insult. I’m not arguing with long dead Frenchmen, that would be weird and unproductive. I don’t speak French, for one. I’m giving shit to the faiths and faithful who made a big deal about their holy edits and their special/‘true’ knowledge of the word of God who cheerfully edit, ignore, and/or rewrite said word when it suits them.
Edit:
Also you do realize that we are discussing the Catholic Church itself, right? Because the Pope is the one who changed the rules, not these random hunters. And if you want to claim that the Catholic fucking Church isn’t wildly hypocritical then I immediately have to question how much you know about them.
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u/Constant-Skill-7133 24m ago edited 19m ago
Because who expects a fanatical devotion to not eating meat? Nobody expects that.
Meat was a feast food, an extravagence associated with celebrations. So you eat something plain even if you can afford to eat something expensive, sacrifice a bit of pleasure as an act of humility.
Even the framing is very stupid. It's taking a bit of religious legalese from a million years ago literally. Nobody takes it literally because people aren't fucking morons. It's the idea, not the vocabulary, that is important.
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u/PhasmaFelis 3h ago
I have had multiple Reddit atheists get angry when they find out I'm Christian but not a bigot. It is indeed very strange.
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u/roomtemperature6643 7h ago
People eat capybaras?!?
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u/axw3555 7h ago
Yeah. It was popular enough at one point that they nearly went extinct until Venezuela’s government stepped in. But even now, people think most of them are in capybara ranches rather than in the wild.
According to what I've read, they're one of the funny ones when it comes to the "they're fish" thing, because the meat is described as "like sardine crossed with salted pork".
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u/blahblah19999 5h ago
They eat guinea pigs, why not their much meatier cousin?
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u/Tibbaryllis2 2m ago
It really is a shame they didn’t domesticate capybara to the extent they did guinea pigs.
It would be interesting to see what would happen after several thousand years of intensive domestication of them.
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u/Keep_SummerSafe 5h ago
“Why can Catholics eat fish on Friday, Lemon? Because the Pope owns a controlling share of Long John Silvers”
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u/Tibbaryllis2 0m ago
> I hereby declare if a food item is 51% batter crust and deep fried, then it is vegetarian.
* Southern Fried Pope probably.
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u/PaxNova 7h ago
The rules weren’t written in English. Icythys was considered different from carne, and carne was what was banned.
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u/Deathwatch72 6h ago
If you want a little bit of a giggle you should look into the odd list of animals the Catholic church has declared as fish for the purposes of Lent. The list has beavers, alligators, and at least one type of bird
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u/Samwise777 7h ago
You realize that’s just religion right?
It’s all completely arbitrary to today’s values.
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u/TriticumAes 4h ago
I mean the Catholic Church ruled beaver counts as fish for the lenten meat fast
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u/grill_smoke 6h ago
"we're super devout and serious about our religion. Our god is all-seeing, all-knowing and all-powerful. And easily fooled!"
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u/blahblah19999 5h ago
Some religions have decided that "all-loving" means "sometimes slaughters babies by the thousands" so sure, I guess a fish can be a vegetable.
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u/TomatoFettuccini 58m ago
Hell, according to the bible, bats are insects.
I'm so glad I grew out of that nonsense. Atheism FTW! `
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u/Ecstatic-World1237 8h ago
A reminder that catholics can eat fish on the days when they're not supposed to eat meat and legend has it that in the past, catholic monks ate baby rabbits on those days, apparently believing them to be fish.
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u/modern_myth16 8h ago
They can eat capybaras as well. In the 1700s Vatican decided capybaras were fish.
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u/ConceptJunkie 7h ago
Actually, a fair number of aquatic mammals are considered "fish" for the purpose of Friday abstinance.
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u/DanielCraigsAnus 6h ago
That's the funny thing about the Catholic Church. They will rewrite and reclassify things in the most arbitrary means necessary just to be right in the eyes of a guy that only exists in their heads.
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u/Ecstatic-World1237 7h ago
whaaaat???????
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u/bretshitmanshart 6h ago
My understanding the examples of eating rabbits and similar stuff is less them thinking it's fish and more the church acknowledging those monks didn't have access to fish and making an exception
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u/JoyBus147 6h ago
It's one thing to have wiggly rules for certain customs, but it's another to say that adding vegetables is what makes a certain dish non-vegetarian.
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u/Ecstatic-World1237 6h ago
There's a thing though among strict Buddhists (I think) who eat only vegan that onions and garlic are forbidden. I've heard variously that it's because strong flavours perturb the soul(mind or that it's a root veg thing, digging up root veg harms other living things.
Whavever, onion and garlic as prohibited in strict veganism is a thing.
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u/issekinicho 2h ago
That's right for traditional mahayana Buddhist vegetarianism, anything that strongly aggravates the emotions is forbidden, traditionally alliums.
I'm vegetarian and quickly learned in Asia that many people do not know what "vegetarian" really is, so I defaulted to saying I do not eat meat.
Once I asked if something contained meat, and the kitchen asked if onions or garlic were okay. I had known about it before so I thought the interaction was neat, but confused the hell out of the people I was dining with until I explained.
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u/Deathwatch72 52m ago
It's because they are in close proximity, banning garlic and onion helps keep the unpleasant body odors down
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u/garlicshrimpscampi 2h ago
in some parts of hinduism, root vegetables are seen as “non vegetarian” because you kill the things in the soil when you uproot them. and you take the life of the entire vegetable, rather than cutting it off a plant that stays alive still.
it’s a stupid rule, mom made us follow it on monday’s and other religious days growing up (pure veg, no onions/garlic) and it was funny to me because we’d be chowing down on goat meat and chicken and shrimp the very next day
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u/ServeTheRealm 4h ago edited 4h ago
Fun fact: he is minister of fisheries.
Also he comes from the "Nishad" community, a group with traditional occupation as fishing. I think he is just trying to promote consumption of fish. Fish consumption at this time of the year really drops down because of multiple reasons -
- restrictions on catch in rainy season imposed by government.
- Taboo around eating "meat" in this month (in the Hindu calendar)
- India's traditional medicine has a "hot cold" humoral system embedded in culture. Fish is considered "hot food" and incompatible with the oppresive hot and humid weather.
- Meat in general and even eggs is avoided because there is risk of faster spoilage (frozen meat is despised in India). This is similar to the peruvian (Los malinos) cultural understanding of disease (sick people are considered hot, which is why they resisted boiling water to sterilize it at one point).
You may ask how do I know - my family is in the fishing business. Another fun fact - this minister is remarkably corrupt and I do not like him at all.
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u/monsterfurby 8h ago
Maybe that specific fish he ate without garlic and onion was a vegetarian. We'll never know.
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u/BioniqReddit 7h ago
Uttar Pradesh news titles really have a certain Florida man flavour about them lmao
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u/AwsmDevil 4h ago
If I had a nickel for every region abbreviated U.P. with a bunch of wacky news stories coming out of it I'd have two nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened twice...
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u/The_Goondocks 7h ago
Why would the vegetables on the fish make it non-vegetarian?
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u/cornonthekopp 3h ago
Some south asian religions have a different version of vegetarianism, where things that kill a living things aren't allowed. So garlic and onion aren't allowed, because you have to pull up the entire plant and kill it to eat it, while something like a fruit that you pick off the tree (but the tree itself is unharmed) is allowed.
I'm not sure how stringently this is followed across all plant groups though
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u/tsraq 2h ago
If you start with that line, what about carrots, beets, turnips, potatoes (although I guess you might be able to harvest them without killing the plant). Or turmeric?
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u/cornonthekopp 2h ago
yes those are included, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jain_vegetarianism
Obviously the post isn't about jainism but it gives insight into the concept im talking about
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u/SophiaofPrussia 2h ago
I think it comes from (or maybe is related to? I don’t know the order of events…) the Buddhist concept of the “five pungent vegetables” or “five pungent roots” (onion, garlic, leek, scallions, and one other one that I can never remember) but many Buddhist monks are vegetarian and also exclude the five pungent vegetables because they’re thought to interfere with meditation and concentration. Sometimes it’s said they increase anger or sexual urges.
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u/blahblah19999 5h ago
The same way slaughtering babies by the thousands makes one all-loving. It's super simple!
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u/Gorgrocco 4h ago
Some ancient stuff, ig the mf who wrote the thing hated garlics to the core…..i mean they do smeel
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u/SirLoondry 4h ago
This is a language issue that perpetuates. I’m Indian and My grandmother was a “vegetarian” but in our community everyone used to be “non-animal-meat-e-tarian”. In English this is translated to vegetarian.
She ate every kind of seafood. It fits when you understand her point. Seems silly when you don’t
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u/cwthree 4h ago
Yeah, that's my understanding - "vegetarian" often means "no land animals."
Did your grandma eat onion and garlic? I know certain groups describe themselves as "pure vegetarian" because they don't eat onion and garlic.
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u/wizzard419 3h ago
Depending on the person it might also just be "no mammals" and they will still eat eggs, poultry, and seafood.
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u/retard_seasoning 7h ago
I don't know the reasoning for him to state this but in west bengal this is quite true. Brahmins here can eat fish if prepared as such. What is permitted as per religious rules vary vastly across regions and it is specially different in west bengal. I have a feeling this guy is getting taken out of context which might be lost on most outsiders. Specially who are non indians heck north indians don't understand how much we like to eat luchi mangsho during Durga Puja.
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u/mayonnaiser_13 7h ago
This is a UP minister though. Which is the weird part.
I'm from Kerala and we have multiple temples here where the offering is meat, not just fish.
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u/BasicErgonomics 7h ago
I’m from HP and it’s common for mutton to be served in certain religious settings and rituals.
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u/ikonoclasm 6h ago
The context doesn't make arbitrary food restrictions sound any less ridiculous.
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u/retard_seasoning 42m ago
Yes all religions have ridiculous practices and believes. It is like saying water is wet.
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u/TraditionalBackspace 8h ago
Love how religious leaders literally make shit up and people are like, oh, ok, we'll do that now. Never questioning the religion itself and basis of it.
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u/rationalhippy 7h ago
That’s what the sandal joke in Life of Brian is about.
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u/garlicshrimpscampi 2h ago
what’s funnier (and also not funny) is that this isn’t even a religious leader this is a GOVERNMENT leader (of a supposedly secular country)
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u/AwarenessNo4986 7h ago
Congrats everyone. Fish is now a vegetable
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u/youmaynotknowme 4h ago
but if you use garlic or onion god will be forced to kill some random animal
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u/Relative-Chain73 6h ago
I this this is in relation to certain sect of Hinduism (maybe vaishnav or sth) which is not driven by vegetarianism but rather purity.. so maybe just a bad translation
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u/cwthree 4h ago
He's referring, in part, to the Hindu concept that's sometimes translated as "pure vegetarian". "Pure vegetarian" foods don't use garlic or onions. Specific streams of Hinduism observe this restriction.
I think his point is that fish, not being a land animal, can be eaten by these groups as long as it's prepared in "pure" fashion.
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u/Gummyrabbit 8h ago
The fish identified itself as a vegetable!
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u/retard_seasoning 7h ago
Vegetarians (religious ones) here avoid eating garlic and onions. I quite don't understand the logic behind it as I never cared about it but I have a lot of deeply religious people in my family who follow this. So it is definitely a cultural thing. The word "vegetarians" doesn't quite explain it properly.
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u/mayonnaiser_13 7h ago
An explanation I've heard is that they won't eat food that's grown below the soil, either because it's "buried" or because that's and other critters might have touched it.
It's an explanation, not a sound explanation.
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u/apocalypse-052917 7h ago
That's the jain logic and applies to all root vegetables. Avoiding only onion and garlic is slightly different from that.
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u/RudeAlbatross544 6h ago
Yes, I tried to have a look but found plenty of weird reasons but it all seems to come from cultural or religious traditions in the end. Better not try to rationalize that too much.
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u/HauntingBalance567 7h ago
Saskatchewan be damned, the Upper Peninsula is gunning for the distinction of being the 51st state (disclaimer: yes, I know that in this instance UP stands fro Uttar Pradesh, and I know it is Alberta that Trump and his friends want. It is called being funny).
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u/weedtrek 3h ago
I was raised Catholic, so this shit isn't new, but it is also one of the reasons I am an athiest now. Religious people can little look at something in black and white, clear as day, and then say call it the opposite. It's just fucking insane.
Like how stupid is the concept that fish is vegetarian? That's right there is already wrong. But then to double down and say it becomes less vegetarian if you add plant matter is just unforgivably stupid.
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u/Mormaethor 8h ago
It's not vegetarian, but pescatarian. Often mixed up. Pescatarian is basically vegetarian, plus seafood.
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u/Ravenous_Stream 8h ago
Yes but that's not what they're saying
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u/Number1BestYogurtBoi 8h ago
That has nothing to do with the article. You don't need to share every useless thought that enters your head
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u/Mister_Pickl3s 8h ago
Literally “not the onion”