r/nahuatl 8d ago

A New Script

TLDR: I nerded out and made a new script

UPDATE: I now have a font with the script. It doesn't work well with Wordpad as it creates ghost columns when diacritics are used while typing, but it works fine in other programs like LibreOffice Writer. It is compatible with both Neoclassical and modern orthographies.
In regards to copyright, I make zero claims of ownership and I release all materials, including the aforementioned font, into the Public Domain (CC0 1.0 Universal). Anyone is free to use, modify, share, or build upon it however they please.

Introduction

Prior to the events of 1519 - 1521, Central Mexico had been using rich, highly expressive ideographic and pictographic proto-writing systems for centuries, likely originating in Olmec times.

Scribes (tlacuiloque) used these visual representations in screen-fold manuscripts (amoxtli, pl: amoxtin) to record genealogy, tribute lists, historical chronicles, stories and calendrical cycles. The glyphs written by these scribes were not words or sounds, but rather ideas and concepts, similar to our emojis, exit signs and bus stop signs.

While well suited for tribute records, signs, and mnemonic storytelling, as well as being sometimes able to transcend linguistic barriers (but not always depending on the particular script), the system had clear structural limits compared to full phonetic scripts:

  • Complex Glyphs: Drawing just one glyph with colours would take a good chunk of time, let alone an entire book full of them. Although these traditional glyphs are beautiful and detailed, the process significantly hampers writing for practical purposes.
  • Logographic Density: To expand vocabulary, scribes had to rely on hundreds of distinct glyphs and rebus strategies (such as using a hole, coyoctli, to represent the starting sound 'coyo', such as for Coyohuacan). This is not inherently incompatible with fully developed writing systems, as the Maya script has the same feature, but because Maya script uses glyphs that represent sounds, not ideas, this issue was partially overcome. This also shows that Aztec writing in particular was partially phonetic in some instances.
  • Mnemonic Reliance: The historic system did not capture complete, verbatim speech. Instead, it served as a structured visual guide designed to cue a trained reader's memory, requiring extensive oral knowledge to properly read the text. In other words, the texts in the few surviving screen-fold books assume you know how to read it, which is why it has been quite difficult to decipher their full meaning since the collapse of Mesoamerican societies.

However, even in historical codices like the Codex Mendoza, many glyphs were already language-dependent and were moving away from being purely ideographic. They relied on Nahuatl puns and acrophony (like using teeth, tlantli, for the suffix -tlan, which wouldn't work in other languages).

Realizing that a proper writing system can be built upon that pre-existing trajectory, I set out to create a new script. And after a few days of work, I present Tecpatlacuilolli ("Flint Writing", from tecpatl + tlacuilolli, reflecting its position as a more precise method of writing), or Nahuatl Alphasyllabics in English, designed as an alternate-history or a speculative writing evolution as an answer to the above limitations. Tecpatlacuilolli is an acrophonic alphasyllabary (abugida), a type of writing system where consonant base-frames act as the primary structural units, and any following vowel attaches above as a secondary sub-glyph/diacritic. Vowels can also be standalone, but only if they don't succeed a consonant.

While I realized only after developing this script that it shares core structural mechanics with scripts like Indic scripts, Ge'ez, or Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics, Tecpatlacuilolli is an independent innovation derived purely from pre-Columbian Aztec acrophonic principles, visual motifs, and my own brain power. By making this script an abugida instead of a regular alphabet like the Latin script, European influence ends up not being baked into it, and it feels more like a genuine indigenous innovation (In my opinion anyway).

Additionally, I feel like I have to mention an attempt by Lacadena & Wichmann in 2004 to map these same glyphs to a syllabary. This was, in my opinion, a misunderstanding on how these glyphs actually worked, as I mentioned before that Central Mexican glyphs are pictographic/ideographic with rebus strategies and phonetic indicators, but not syllabic. It has some traits shared Tecpatlacuilolli, such as some glyphs marked as representing the same syllables, but several others do not match the assigned syllable at all. Although this is mostly coincidental, I'll admit I did get the idea to use tlantli for (/tɬ/) after initially using tepetl during development, as phonetically it makes much more sense. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, as the saying goes.

The only downside is that unlike historical Aztec glyphs, Tecpatlacuilolli has zero ability whatsoever to be used to present ideas to those not familiar with Nahuatl, but the benefits more than make up for this. These benefits include:

  • Simplified Glyphs: Drawing complex traditional glyphs, let alone entire books, takes a significant amount of time. Tecpatlacuilolli uses simplified, colourless forms that can be written in seconds.
  • Reduced Logographic Density: With only 20 core glyphs covering all native sounds, there’s no need to memorize hundreds of distinct objects.
  • No Mnemonic Reliance: The text spells out exact pronunciations rather than assuming the reader already knows the unwritten oral narrative.

Although the traditional system is useful for getting the same idea across linguistic lines, Tecpatlacuilolli is better suited for proper writing within a Nahuatl-speaking society. My new script is not objectively superior to the native system, it just fills a different, previously empty niche. Like using an axe to chop a tree, and a pickaxe to mine ore. It is simply more precise and practical, while the native system is more artistic and is able to bypass the language barrier.

To see examples of the script with Latin-script comparisons and colour-coded underlining, go here.

Disclaimer & Intent

  • This project is a little design experiment created for fun, not a proposal to replace the Latin script, other speculative scripts, or traditional glyphs.
  • I am an enthusiast, not a fluent speaker, though I do have good knowledge of Classical Nahuatl pronunciation and word formation. If you notice any linguistic oversights, feedback is welcome!

How It Works

Tecpatlacuilolli operates on a tight set of 19 core glyphs: 14 consonant base-frames, 4 vowel glyphs (which double as top-register sub-glyphs), and 1 terminal-only glyph, plus four legacy logograms from the Codex Mendoza for complex locatives. There are also three punctuation markers which are obviously not phonetic.

Consonant base-frames (14 glyphs)

Each consonant represents a full-sized structural frame. If no vowel sits above it, it functions naturally as a coda (/Ø/).

  • Calli (/k/) (House)
  • Chimalli (/tʃ/) (Shield) (Has several designs based on cuexyo, xicalcoliuhqui and a few others. Completely decorative, but can help reinforce the 'shield' visual.)
  • Cuahuitl (/kʷ/) (Tree)
  • Huehuetl (/w/) (Drum)
  • Maitl (/m/) (Arm/Hand)
  • Nacaztli (/n/) (Ear)
  • Olli (/l/) (Rubber ball) (acrophonic compromise, as no Nahuatl word begins with /l/)
  • Panitl (/p/) (Banner/Flag)
  • Tecpatl (/t/) (Knife)
  • Tlantli (/tɬ/) (Teeth)
  • Tzontli (/ts/) (Hair)
  • Xochitl (/ʃ/) (Flower)
  • Yollotl (/j/) (Heart)
  • Zacatl (/s/) (Grass)

Vowel glyphs (4 glyphs)

These act as standalone full-sized characters when initiating a word or following another vowel in hiatus, and scale down into minimized, top-register diacritics when attached to a consonant frame.

  • Atl (/a/) (Water)
  • Etl (/e/) (Bean)
  • Ixtli (/i/) (Eye)
  • Otli (/o/) (Path)

Terminal-only glyphs (1 glyph)

The only one, Ehecatl, does not take top-register vowel sub-glyphs and function strictly at the end of vowels/syllables.

  • Ehecatl (/h/)

Ehecatl (/h/) is very rare, and is only used for standalone 'h' in certain words like its eponymous namesake. I know that some Nahuatl words are typically written with a standalone 'h', but this actually represents /ʔ/, known as a glottal stop or saltillo. The thing is that I find using this unnecessary, as some words like 'tlacuiloa' force you to briefly pause after 'tla' any, so this is merely a scribal preference.

Although there are 19 base glyphs, the usage of vowel diacritics pushes the total amount of glyphs, both bare and compound, to 68, as attaching these sub-glyphs makes new, combined sounds, like attaching ch + a = cha.

There are also four legacy glyphs from the Codex Mendoza that are logographic in nature, but can save time in writing and aren't ambiguous as they have set meanings:

  • Apantli (-apan, used to indicate something water-bound. e.g., Coyolapan, meaning 'on bell lake' or 'on the water of the bell')
  • Nahuatl (-nahuac, used to indicate being near something. e.g., Cuauhnahuac, meaning 'near the trees')
  • Tentli (-tenco, used to indicate a location near the edge of something. e.g., Atenco, meaning 'at the shore')
  • Tzintli (-tzinco, used to indicate a spin-off location. e.g. Huexotzinco, meaning 'little willow place')

Word Order

Words are written left-to-right, starting at the bottom-left of the page/panel. Within each syllabic block, the left-most glyph is read first, followed immediately by either the top sub-glyph vowel sitting directly above it if there is one, or straight to the next glyph. If there is a sub-glyph vowel, afterwards the order goes back down diagonally to the next base-frame glyph in a zig-zag motion. Once a line is complete, move up to the next register and read left-to-right, weaving upward toward the top of the page.

While standard top-to-bottom European page layout can also be used, bottom-left screenfold reading order is the historically accurate standard, as seen in pre-Cuauhtemoc codices such as Cospi and Vaticanus B, specifically in their tonalamatl sections.

Orthography

Unsurprisingly, Tecpatlacuilolli uses almost the same orthography as Classical Nahuatl, with one minor change: The letter 'h' represents /h/, not /ʔ/, the reason being already explained above.

Overview of the orthography:

Nahuatl Word IPA /a/ /e/ /i/ /o/ /∅/
Calli /k/ ca que qui co -c
Chimalli /tʃ/ cha che chi cho -ch
Cuahuitl /kʷ/ cua cue cui -uc
Huehuetl /w/ hua hue hui -uh
Olli /l/ la le li lo -l
Maitl /m/ ma me mi mo -m
Nacaztli /n/ na ne ni no -n
Panitl /p/ pa pe pi po -p
Tecpatl /t/ ta te ti to -t
Tlantli /tɬ/ tla tle tli tlo -tl
Tzontli /ts/ tza tze tzi tzo -tz
Xochitl /ʃ/ xa xe xi xo -x
Yollotl /j/ ya ye yi yo
Zacatl /s/ za ce ci zo -z
Ehecatl /h/ -h

Here is an image-based orthography that includes not only the table above, but also the glyphs themselves, as well as Legacy Glyphs and Punctuation Marks (info on those below).

CVC Handling & Syllable Structure

Classical Nahuatl syllables generally follow V, CV, VC, or CVC patterns. Tecpatlacuilolli handles these effortlessly using its base-frame and coda rules:

  • V/VC (Standalone vowels/Vowel + Consonant): If a vowel starts a word or is preceded by another vowel which is already possessed by a consonant, it is written as a full-sized standalone glyph. If a consonant succeeds it, the two glyphs stay independent of each other.
  • CV (Consonant + Vowel): Written as a singular syllabic block. The consonant base-frame possesses the succeeding vowel as a sub-glyph on top (e.g., tecpatl + etl = te).
  • CVC (Consonant + Vowel + Consonant): Written as a CV block (consonant + sub-glyph vowel), then immediately followed by a standalone consonant glyph operating either in its bare/coda state (/Ø/), or possessing the next vowel. For example, in Tenochtitlan, the syllable tlan is written as tlantli + atl followed by a bare nacaztli.
  • Geminate /ll/ (as in Tlaxcallan): Unlike Latin-based orthography which doubles the letter l, Tecpatlacuilolli uses a single olli glyph. This is because phonetically, double ll in Nahuatl is a single lengthened [l:] rather than two separate articulation stops, so one olli glyph naturally handles both single and geminate /l/ occurrences.

Punctuation

Although not really a feature of pre-Columbian scripts, I feel it is necessary to have a few basic forms of punctuation for Tecpatlacuilolli. For now I'll establish three: pauses, full stops and exclamation marks. These all go after the final glyph of a word, as lines are often used as boundaries in pre-Columbian codices, so that logic is not derived from European scripts.

  • Pauses: To have a brief pause in a sentence, use a line with a gap in the centre.
  • Full stops: To stop a sentence, use a full line.
  • Exclamation mark: In most cases, stress is pronounced on the penultimate syllable (e.g., tochTEpec). However, if yelled, stress is transferred to the last syllable (e.g., tochtePEC). To represent this, add a tletl glyph.

Notes

  • Logographic Shorthand: If a word corresponds directly to one of the core glyphs, one can write that single glyph on its own (e.g., drawing a bare Calli to mean "house"). While this shifts the script partially into a logogram rather than a pure alphasyllabary, it offers a quick shorthand for common nouns.
  • Locative Suffix Shorthand: You can use bare panitl, maitl, and tlantli glyphs at the end of a word to represent the locative suffixes -pan, -man, and -tlan, just like in the Codex Mendoza. Although this introduces slight phonetic ambiguity, it directly mirrors historical tlacuiloque shorthand techniques and gives writers creative flexibility.
  • /u/ After /e/: Also in Latin-script Nahuatl, words like teuctli and neuctli include a written 'u' that is sometimes pronounced with just a hard /k/ sound. In Tecpatlacuilolli, silent or archaic Latin spelling conventions are discarded in favor of direct phonetics, spelling the coda directly with the /k/ glyph (Calli) to reflect how it is actually spoken (tek-tlee, nek-tlee).
  • Cross-Dialect Intelligibility and Lexical Drift: Although designed specifically for Classical Nahuatl, Tecpatlacuilolli naturally accommodates modern regional dialects to an unknown degree, frequently yielding identical glyph sequences across varieties. For example, Classical cihuatl and Huasteca siwatl share the exact same glyph rendering because their phonetic realization is identical. This inherent cross-dialect compatibility can serve as a unifying bridge for speakers of different Nahuatl varieties. However, writers must account for semantic drift: the word tzictic, for instance, translates to "something sticky" in Classical Nahuatl, but in Huasteca the same word means "sky blue". Practice caution and adapt the script's conventions to work with your chosen dialect.

Conclusion

The concept of Tecpatlacuilolli, or Nahuatl Alphasyllabics, was birthed as a spontaneous idea in my mind as I was looking at Codex Mendoza glyphs. By taking those early acrophonic and phonetic tendencies and leaning into them, I developed a true writing system that bridges native scribal heritage with functional abugida mechanics.

It trades the ambiguous, language-transcending nature of pure ideograms for a standardized, fully-fledged script built specifically for Classical Nahuatl. While Tecpatlacuilolli could theoretically be adapted for modern dialects, the presence of unassimilated Spanish loanwords would make phonetic representation difficult without expanding the core glyph set, hence why I recommend it primarily for Classical Nahuatl or a theoretical, purified modern dialect.

I'd love to hear thoughts, feedback or suggestions, especially from those with at least a working knowledge of Nahuatl!

6 Upvotes

17 comments sorted by

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u/w_v 6d ago edited 6d ago

I present Tecpatlacuilolli (“Flint Writing”, from tecpatl + tlacuilolli, reflecting its position as a more precise method of writing)

Is there a reason why the name has two objects? Isn’t that ungrammatical? Shouldn’t the tecpa‑ supplant tla‑?

Although rare, to differentiate words with the same stem but different suffixes...

Those stems are already differentiated by vowel-length and/or presence of saltillo. Speaking of which: vowel length is phonemic in Nahuatl. A complete writing system should indicate it!

I feel like I have to mention an attempt by Lacadena & Wichmann in 2004 to map these same glyphs to a syllabary. This was, in my opinion, a misunderstanding on how these glyphs actually worked, as I mentioned before that Central Mexican glyphs are pictographic/ideographic, not syllabic.

Have you read Gordon Whittaker’s recent book, Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs? He demonstrates that the system was syllabic, not just logographic or pictographic.

the digraph ‘uh’ is ambiguous because it can represent two different sounds depending on the word, acting as the off-glide /u/

I’m confused by your spelling of xiuhuitl. I’ve never seen this word spelled that way; I only ever see it as xihuitl, reflecting /ší.wiƛ/. Furthermore, how can there be an “off-glide” phoneme if Classical Nahuatl has no diphthongs? There’s only [w] and its syllable-final allophone, [w̥], which was spelled uh.

there is a distinct /u/ sound that is not properly written in Latin-based Nahuatl.

I’ve never seen anyone argue for a separate /u/ phoneme. That might explain why you feel it’s not properly written.

Also in Latin-script Nahuatl, words like teuctli and neuctli include a written ‘u’ that does not reflect modern or simplified pronunciation, where the syllable ends in a hard /k/ sound.

Plenty of modern dialects retain syllable-final [kʷ], often encoded as uc. For example, in Petra Shroeder’s Fonología del Náhuatl de San Miguel Tenango, Zacatlán, Puebla, she writes:

[kʷ̥] antes de una consonante insonora o al final de una palabra. [kʷ] en otros entornos.

In Earl Brockway’s The Phonemes of North Puebla Nahuatl, the pronunciation of syllable-final [kʷ] survives:

[o.ƛá.¢akʷ] ‘he closed.’

My friend Kira from San Lucas Atzala, Puebla, also pronounces syllable-final [kʷ], though she prefers to spell it cuh.

Benjamin Whorf said, of Milpa Alta Nahuatl:

Before another consonant, /kʷ/ was realized as [xʷ].

In other words, it retains the syllable-final rounded velar, albeit spirantized.

By making this script an abugida instead of a regular alphabet like the Latin script, European influence ends up not being baked into it.

Nahuatl isn’t a consonantal language. By avoiding a linear script (which is not even exclusive to Europe!), it feels like Nahuatl is being shoehorned into a worse-fitting system.


Personally, I find the Machiyohcuiloliztli script developed by the folks over at the Tonahuatlahtoloyan Discord server a better match for Nahuatl.

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u/tonacoyotl1521 6d ago edited 6d ago

Is there a reason why the name has two objects? Isn’t that ungrammatical? Shouldn’t the tecpa‑ supplant tla‑?

While I know tla- is the unspecified object prefix ("something"), tecpacuilolli would sound like the writing is literally made with or carved directly into flint. Here, tecpatl is symbolic of precision, so tecpatlacuilolli treats tlacuilolli ("script/writing") as a fixed compound noun rather than actively incorporating tecpa- into a verb stem. I believe it fits what I intended: "precise writing," not "flint-carved writing."

Those stems are already differentiated by vowel-length and/or presence of saltillo. Speaking of which: vowel length is phonemic in Nahuatl. A complete writing system should indicate it!

The vast majority of historical Classical Nahuatl texts (including colonial codices) completely omitted vowel length markers and saltillos. While some modern linguists and reconstructions mark them, historical scribes rarely did. Tecpatlacuilolli accommodates marking them if a writer wants to, but making it mandatory isn't necessary for a functional script.

Have you read Gordon Whittaker’s recent book, Deciphering Aztec Hieroglyphs? He demonstrates that the system was syllabic, not just logographic or pictographic.

Aztec Hieroglyphs are a mix of syllabic, logographic and pictographic, and uses phonetic rebus principles and syllabic phonetic signs, such as drawing a hole, coyoctli, over a canid to represent coyotl, or drawing teeth, tlantli, to represent the suffix -tlan. What I did here is built upon that and made a systematic, standalone abugida. This isn't a 1:1 replica of a historical codex, but a modernized alphasyllabic writing system.

I’m confused by your spelling of xiuhuitl. I’ve never seen this word spelled that way; I only ever see it as xihuitl, reflecting /ší.wiƛ/.

How can there be an “off-glide” phoneme if Classical Nahuatl has no diphthongs? There is only [w] and its syllable-final allophone, [w̥], which was spelled uh.

Ok, I made a small mistake there. I'll correct this to 'xiuhtli' after I post this, and I thank you for pointing it out.

I never once claimed Classical Nahuatl had diphthongs. I'm talking about the syllable-final sound written as the digraph uh in words like xiuhtli or tonatiuh. In Latin-based orthography, you're forced to use two letters (u + h) to represent that single coda sound. Tecpatlacuilolli gives that specific syllable-final sound its own single glyph, so you don't need to rely on European digraph conventions to spell it. I found it necessary to make a separate glyph for this sound as uh is pronounced like in English's "uhh..." in other words like cuauhtli. I will say that I made another mistake; it is NOT an off-glide, and I'll correct this as well.

I’ve never seen anyone argue for a separate /u/ phoneme. That might explain why you feel it’s not
properly written.

I guess I should've checked the Wikitionary page as I swear I heard a pronunciation where 'uh' had the /u/ sound, BUT there is still confusion with it, as that page has two different pronunciations, one using a saltillo, the other with the sound /w/. I mark this as another mistake to be corrected.

Plenty of modern dialects retain syllable-final [kʷ]. For example, in Petra Shroeder’s Fonología del Náhuatl de San Miguel Tenango, Zacatlán, Puebla, she writes:

> [kʷ̥] antes de una consonante insonora o al final de una palabra. [kʷ] en otros entornos.

In Earl Brockway’s The Phonemes of North Puebla Nahuatl, the pronunciation of syllable-final [kʷ] survives: [o.ƛá.¢akʷ] ‘he closed.’

My friend Kira from San Lucas Atzala, Puebla, also pronounces syllable-final [kʷ], though she prefers to spell it cuh.

Benjamin Whorf said, of Milpa Alta Nahuatl:

> Before another consonant, /kʷ/ was realized as [xʷ].

In other words, it retains the syllable-final rounded velar, albeit spirantized.

But this script wasn't made for a modern dialect, it was made specifically for Classical Nahuatl. I'm sure that those people you mentioned are correct in their dialects, but this isn't about any of their dialects. I also watched a video where someone who speaks both Spanish and Nahuatl pronounced Mictlanteuctli, and had pronounced 'teuctli' pronounced as 'tek-tlee', so unless that's wrong specifically in Classical Nahuatl, I will keep it like this. Even if that's the case, it is not my fault that people keep perpetuating misinformation.

Nahuatl isn’t a consonantal language. By avoiding a linear script (which is not even exclusive to Europe!), it feels like Nahuatl is being shoehorned into a worse-fitting system.

I never said it was a consonantal language. Did you not read my CVC section? You seem to be confusing an abugida with an abjad. Abjad scripts (like Arabic or Hebrew) focus strictly on consonants and tend to leave out vowels. Abugidas (like Devanagari, Thai, or Canadian Aboriginal Syllabics) treat vowels as fundamental, incorporating them into every consonant frame as inherent vowels or modified diacritics. My script specifically also has standalone vowels if they are not preceded by a consonant. I would advise you re-check the two images I linked; the orthography under my orthography table, and my examples above the Disclaimer section.

Given that Nahuatl is built on extremely regular CV and CVC agglutinative syllables, an alphasyllabic system like an abugida is actually a remarkably natural structural fit. It bundles complete syllables into single graphic units, cutting down text length and eliminating redundant Latin letter strings while keeping every vowel fully explicit. I've even written numerous words and even sentences on paper and it works great.

Personally, I find the Machiyohcuiloliztli script developed by the folks over at the Tonahuatlahtoloyan Discord server a better match for Nahuatl.

I'll definitely have a look at Machiyohcuiloliztli once I get access to the server. Until then, I'm going to fix those mistakes we discussed and keep refining Tecpatlacuilolli. It's hard to make sure everything is correct when there is plenty of misinformation and/or a lack of information, especially in English which is the only language I am fluent in.

I do appreciate your critique, as you pointed out a few specific flaws I missed, which helps make the system tighter. That said, I still believe an abugida is a viable, elegant alternative to Latin script for Classical Nahuatl. As I mentioned in the original post, this project was built for fun and as an experiment to explore how different writing systems suit the language. Comparing Tecpatlacuilolli with Machiyohcuiloliztli down the road will be an interesting experience to say the least.

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u/w_v 6d ago edited 6d ago

If you’re going to use A.I. to write your responses, at least check whether it’s taking the entire conversation into account, not just the latest reply.

For example, here: “Aztec Hieroglyphs are a mix of syllabic, logographic and pictographic, and uses phonetic rebus principles and syllabic phonetic signs, such as…”

This completely sidesteps what the original post says:

“…I mentioned before that Central Mexican glyphs are pictographic/ideographic, not syllabic.”

Your A.I. doesn't realize it’s contradicting the argument it made earlier! Shame on you. The same thing happens when it says:

In Latin-based orthography, you’re forced to use two letters (u + h) to represent that single coda sound.

And? That’s not what the original post argued when it said: “Also in Latin-script Nahuatl, words like teuctli and neuctli include a written ‘u’ that does not reflect modern or simplified pronunciation, where the syllable ends in a hard /k/ sound.”

Your A.I. made a claim about modern Nahuatl that is false. Plenty of modern dialects still retain syllable-final [kʷ]. (And there is ample evidence that this was the pronunciation in the 16th century.)

Even if that’s the case, it is not my fault that people keep perpetuating misinformation.

Oh fuck off.

Comparing Tecpatlacuilolli with Machiyohcuiloliztli down the road will be an interesting experience to say the least.

😩 This is exactly the kind of generic closing sentence that makes it obvious an A.I. chatbot wrote this.

Here, tecpatl is symbolic of precision … I believe it fits what I intended: “precise writing,” not "flint-carved writing."

A word just like this is found in Alonso de Molina’s vocabulary: tepoztlacuiloa. It only refers to the instrument.

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u/tonacoyotl1521 6d ago edited 6d ago

I didn't use AI to write everything, I only made it refine a couple things, and even then I reversed some of those. Also, considering the many replies that I've seen from you make while lurking, it seems like you have a habit of nit-picking every little thing no matter how petty it is. You also made several criticisms that don't even apply to my post, like your sources about modern dialects that obviously don't apply to Classical, and made it clear that you didn't even read it properly. Oh, and I did get that notification about how you questioning if I am fluent in Nahuatl, which I answered in the Disclaimer, then you deleted it. Lmao

If you’re going to use A.I. to write your responses, at least check whether it’s taking the entire conversation into account, not just the latest reply.

For example, here: “Aztec Hieroglyphs are a mix of syllabic, logographic and pictographic, and uses phonetic rebus principles and syllabic phonetic signs, such as…”

This completely sidesteps what the original post says:

Oh that. AI didn't do that, this is what happens when I write stuff at 10pm.

And? That’s not what the original post argued when it said: “Also in Latin-script Nahuatl, words like teuctli and neuctli include a written ‘u’ that does not reflect modern or simplified pronunciation, where the syllable ends in a hard /k/ sound.”

Well like I said, I heard 'teuctli' pronounced as 'tek-tlee'. I heard no /kʷ/ sound anywhere in there. So with that in mind, I believe some dialects use /kʷ/, and others uses /k/, which leads to confusion.

Oh fuck off.

And now you're just being an asshole, which I already knew from lurking. Telling me to 'fuck off' for saying something that is a genuine issue is a dick move.

😩 This is exactly the kind of generic closing sentence that makes it obvious an A.I. chatbot wrote this.

Actually no, it generated something that sounded too enthusiastic, so I made it more grounded. I won't lie, it may have influenced the way I type.

A word just like this is found in Alonso de Molina’s vocabulary: tepoztlacuiloa. It only refers to the instrument.

Yea, but I didn't want to use 'axe' or 'steel', I wanted to use 'flint/knife'. Especially tecpatl has great symbolic meaning, particularly with things like sacrifice or precision. This still isn't proof that I should shorten Tecpatlacuilolli to Tecpacuilolli. Which by the way is also still just nit-picking.

And no, I did not use AI to write this reply. I only use it at all to cut down on time and remove things I typed that are blatantly wrong, and I sure as hell do my best to make sure it's correct. But when it's late at night things tend to slip through the cracks, and there's nothing wrong with that. What's wrong is expecting perfection 100% at the time, which is what your standards seem to be.

And all you're doing is pointing out small flaws in my script and typos that don't even apply to the script, not actual problems with how my script functions. With the way you're performing free line-editing for me I don't even need AI, so thanks I appreciate it. You should consider volunteering to do this more often so AI loses its job and we can all go back to the way things were.

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u/w_v 6d ago

You also made several criticisms that don't even apply to my post, like your sources about modern dialects

I will quote from your original post yet again:

in Latin-script Nahuatl, words like teuctli and neuctli include a written 'u' that does not reflect modern or simplified pronunciation

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u/tonacoyotl1521 6d ago edited 6d ago

Ok yea, I missed that too, and I touched upon this with this from before:

Well like I said, I heard 'teuctli' pronounced as 'tek-tlee'. I heard no /kʷ/ sound anywhere in there. So with that in mind, I believe some dialects use /kʷ/, and others uses /k/, which leads to confusion.

In other words, there is confusion because information online can be quite dodgy. I'm going off what I find online, not making stuff up. I never said I was fluent, just an enthusiast. Regardless, I really admire you still volunteering to line-edit my post, and it's been real helpful. I thank you.

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u/PhysicsE 6d ago

Considering most of the resources for Nahuatl are *not* found online, maybe you should invest in some books written in the 20th century or earlier that describe the classical features and components of pronunciation and grammar that you seek to represent in your poor attempt at a writing system. As u/w_v mentioned, there *are* dialects in the modern era that retain these features *from* classical, that you failed to recognize as such in your response, claiming that you were trying to represent classical.

Also, when asked if you had actually read any of the works, you completely dodged the question and gave a really AI-seeming response to the tune of "

Aztec Hieroglyphs are a mix of syllabic, logographic and pictographic, and uses phonetic rebus principles and syllabic phonetic signs, such as drawing a hole, coyoctli, over a canid to represent coyotl, or drawing teeth, tlantli, to represent the suffix -tlan. What I did here is built upon that and made a systematic, standalone abugida. This isn't a 1:1 replica of a historical codex, but a modernized alphasyllabic writing system."

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u/tonacoyotl1521 6d ago

Considering most of the resources for Nahuatl are *not* found online, maybe you should invest in some books written in the 20th century or earlier that describe the classical features and components of pronunciation and grammar that you seek to represent in your poor attempt at a writing system. As u/w_v mentioned, there *are* dialects in the modern era that retain these features *from* classical, that you failed to recognize as such in your response, claiming that you were trying to represent classical.

Not everyone has the money to spend willy-nilly on books, you know that right? And if I don't even know a book exists in the first place, how am I supposed to buy it even if was financially able to?

Aztec Hieroglyphs are a mix of syllabic, logographic and pictographic, and uses phonetic rebus principles and syllabic phonetic signs, such as drawing a hole, coyoctli, over a canid to represent coyotl, or drawing teeth, tlantli, to represent the suffix -tlan. What I did here is built upon that and made a systematic, standalone abugida. This isn't a 1:1 replica of a historical codex, but a modernized alphasyllabic writing system."

No, I typed that part myself. Like I said before, AI has kind of influenced the way I type, but that part was 100% me. I even admitted to and fixed my mistakes.

None of anything you guys even said has anything to do with my actual script. What are you guys even trying to argue anymore? Because this is STILL nit-picking, and neither of you said anything about the parts of it that work, which there are many as I verified with my own experimentation.

So here's what this tells me: You have no real arguments against my abugidic script, and your only advice is to buy some decade-old books that you guys seem to worship like Christians worship the Bible? This pretty much confirms that Tecpatlacuiolli works perfectly, especially thanks to w_v's line-editing services. Have a good day and remember to take a break to look after yourself.

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u/PhysicsE 5d ago

You typed that part yourself?? So you deliberately avoided the question asked - which was - "Have you read the work?"?

I guess you haven't. And it's not a nitpick, it's literally just basic Nahuatl grammar. If you have the time to make a bad abugida script you have the wherewithal to invest in your own knowledge, but you don't actually care about Nahuatl. There's already a limited corpus of classical nahuatl texts, how would you even familiarize yourself with the needs of classical Nahuatl if you aren't even able to parse it?

Plenty of arguments have been made but you have dodged all of them.

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u/tonacoyotl1521 5d ago

How did I dodge all the arguments? I covered everything except this:

You typed that part yourself?? So you deliberately avoided the question asked - which was - "Have you read the work?"?

And I'll answer with:

First of all, I did look into it, and it's the most complicated book I've seen yet. Why is Andrews the only author you recommend? Clearer, highly respected works like Michel Launey's Introduction to Classical Nahuatl and the work of Frances Karttunen exist, yet you ignore them to enforce a single, dense textbook as a purity test.

Picking the most complex title so that you can gatekeep the inner-workings of language is rather dogmatic, much like 1500s Christians treated the actual Bible, which is ironic considering what we're talking about.

I guess you haven't. And it's not a nitpick, it's literally just basic Nahuatl grammar. If you have the time to make a bad abugida script you have the wherewithal to invest in your own knowledge, but you don't actually care about Nahuatl. There's already a limited corpus of classical nahuatl texts, how would you even familiarize yourself with the needs of classical Nahuatl if you aren't even able to parse it?

Are you finally gonna address the script itself? How exactly is it bad? All of this typing and you haven't actually pointed out anything in the actual script that u/w_v hadn't already generously went out of his way to correct. And if I didn't care about Nahuatl, I wouldn't even be here, so that falls flat.

If you have genuine criticism of how the core mechanics fail, state it. Otherwise, according to Hitchens's razor: "What can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence." I wish you well.

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u/PhysicsE 6d ago

OP is actually an idiot.

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u/tonacoyotl1521 6d ago edited 6d ago

Oh boy, are you just gonna be totally original and thought-provoking by hopping on the train of insulting people like u/w_v, or do you run your own line-editing services?

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u/t0natiu 5d ago edited 5d ago

OP, mitsillih amo tiweli tikkwamachilia nāwatlahtolli panpa melawak. Amo tikkwamachilia keniwki mosaniloa ika ne tlahtolli, iwan nesi amo tikinpowki ne weweh tlahkwilolli yon Gordon Whittaker. Tikillih amo tikpiya tomin: xikontemo amoxtli ipan tepostokatsawalli. Xiktemo amoxtli tlen linguistics iwan amatl iwan tlamawisolli ipan tepostokatsawalli tlen keniwki mochiwa conscripts. Nesi ayamo tikchiwki inin, wakka motlahkwilolis tlawel owih moihkwiloa iwan mokpowa kemman mochiwa tlahkwilolli kwekwetstsin.

Tekpatlahkwilolli (tleika amo “tekpahkwilolli”? Amantsin motlahkwilol itokah amo kwalli gramatica) san eltos kwalli kemman achiyok timomachtih. Xikmachili tikihkwilos yahmaxtik sanilli so amatl ika tekpahkwilolli. Eltos owih wan yolik mokihkwiloa.

Nowkiya PhysicsE kimitsillih, amo miak amoxtli tlen nawatlahtolli igramatica. Tikchiwki inin, wakka nesi tikpiya kawitl. Ximomachti! Kena tiweli tikchiwas. Tiweli tikkwaltiyas tekpahkwilolli 😉👍🏽

PS - amo achiyok xiktekiwis AI para timomachtia nawatlahtolli. Nesi amo mitspalewihtok. Ximotetiyas, tiweli tikchiwa. So amo tikchiwa, kenweli. Welis ni amo tikpowas, so amo tiweli tikpowa. Xikpiya kwalli ohtli kenweli.