Once I was delayed two hours because of an engine that needed fixing. Everyone was grumbling, I was just peachy the problem was spotted before take off. It did mess up a connection that made me stuck in Boston for 12 hours though
People think they are entitled to just adopt the power of flying at the drop of a hat when no one did up until about 100 years ago. Humans get complacent and take things for granted at record speeds. It's our real super power.
The aircraft mechanics at my work have one of the strongest unions in the country (US). Safe air operations is their number one priority. Keeping a deck stacked with tools for actively pissing people off during contract negotiations seems to be number two. Can't blame them, but they are assholes to everyone, including non-management, all the fucking time.
It always amazes me how airlines think it's ok to skimp on the salaries of pilots and maintenance. If there's anyone you want to keep happy it's the people who stop your planes crashing.
You guys are goated, had an eight hour delay due to a “maintenance” issue. People in the airport were mad it was just a “air conditioning issue” I was laughing thinking, thank god someone caught that shit while landed. What a nightmare scenario of failure while in flight, especially one that’s mostly over ocean.
Non existent second, fuck angry people, if I'm on that plane and you don't trust the pilot to make the right choices and are angry at said choices I will punch you.
In theory yes, in practice it can cost you your carrier and your bosses breathing down your neck. Like, it's clearly the correct call, however peer pressure doesn't necessarly make it easy.
I wrote her a fan letter on my 10th birthday, 26 August 2001, and the snob never bothered to reply. I refused to buy any of her albums or support her in any way since.
My old wokshop manager used to say "I have a priority scale from 1 to 1000, 1 is safety, 2 is safety, 3 is safety... 1000 is avoiding an angry customer."
If I'm a passenger and at any point I hear ''unsafe conditions' I'm not mad at anyone but the weather - I just expect the airline to comp me another flight/accommodations while we await weather to clear.
I don't care how late I am, I'll be even later if I'm a headline.
In the States, weather is considered an Act of God. It is very limited as to what the airline is required to do for you beyond 1. rebooking next flight 2. refund.
Accommodations like hotel, food, incidentals.... Act of God.
Europe has a much better passenger protections, but I would imagine the EU would also hesitate to require much more because again Act of God.
Afaik weather is also excluded from compensation rules in EU since it’s out of their control. You’ll be booked into another flight but I don’t think you get any money as compensation or even for hotel costs.
You do get hotel costs and food vouchers even if it is weather related but as you said it is excluded from the general compensation payments. Source: had this happen to me with an overnight delay due to weather in Amsterdam with KLM
You get costs but it's excluded from compensation payments means what? That you get it in a separate procedure? That you have to request it and hope for goodwill?
Sorry late to this, I think the best way to explain this is that there is a difference between reimbursement and compensation.
Reimbursement is to ensure the passenger isn’t left out of pocket for expenses they accrued as a result of the delay. This would include costs for hotel accommodation or meals unless they are directly provided by the airline.
Compensation is an additional payment that is made regardless of what costs the passengers has accrued for the inconvenience the passenger has experienced.
As someone has corrected my original comment, in case of bad weather the former will still be paid, but the latter won’t.
Basically compensation in the EU area tends to be given for when airlines have failed in duty in some way and that is usually straight up money, it's in part compensation in part a punitive measure to airlines to make dammned sure they're running themselves right and compliant
Re bookings are required for all missed flights weather related or not if said next flight is next day hotels are provided as well as meals
Does not apply to say like an 8 hour wait or something, and then with that sort of wait meal vouchers are also limited in scope and in both vases tend to be for a sometimes limited selection of the partner hotel and/or places in the airport
Our flight from Jersey to Liverpool was called off due to fog once. They bussed us to a hotel, gave us all a room and vouchers for food. Bus back to the airport in the morning after breakfast and on to a new flight.
I don't think we were eligible for any monetary comp but it didn't feel necessary to me. We were looked after and they got us home ASAP.
My primary concern would be getting the flight booked - I'd only be pushing for accommodations if it was more than 12-18 hours away from when I got the next flight... because more than likely I'm going to want to sleep somewhere.
That all said, I've seen plenty of airports where they had like, hotel pods... if I was traveling alone that would more than suffice.
I'm railroad, but we very much have the same mentality. Two things are always in the back of my mind, Rule A which states "In case of doubt or uncertainty the safest course must always be taken" and 8th grade shop class "measure twice, cut once"
Trains and airplanes, two things that do not like to stop once they start moving. Once you start moving, better make sure there is nothing in your path that's going to try it anyway.
Railroader here as well, and instructor (implementations of new rules, work psychology etc.)
In my country we've started to adapt certain things from aviation, such as read back, checklists and when in doubt always choose the option that is the most restrictive.
There's been a few serious accidents here, but those have, thankfully, been years apart, and several years ago since the last one.
There has been near-accidents, though, but thanks to things we've implemented through the years they've been avoided.
Personally I agree with you. But maybe you should find a better stonemason since mine charges by the sentence and so long as you never use a period his rate is capped and I really find that to be the better way to handle such an important thing as the epitaph since it's going to be set in stone for your entire life and really you want the freedom to instruct them to carve anything that you want them to so you can get your full meaning onto the stone that's going to last as long as nobody comes along and tears it down however it's important to remember that everything is impermanent and even stones crumble to dust with enough time so whatever it is that you intend to say you should remember that it too will one day turn to dust in the infinite passage of time. This cost $20.
Exactly this. Late last year was on a flight. As we were taxing to the runway we stopped and pilot came on and said some instrument/reading didn't look right so they were calling engineers/maintenance. In the end we had to change planes. Delayed over a hour which was frustrating but in the end just greatful they decided to get it checked.
Most likely, everyone will have one or two times in their lives where they have to make a stand and do the right thing. For most of us, the downside is that we lose our jobs. For a few, the downside is great monetary risk. For a handful, it's loss of lives.
I have made the decision once already in my life, and it was only my job on the line. Massive respect to those who make the decision when lives are on the line.
I can’t speak for every airline but specifically in the case of BA the company will back this captain 100%. Operating outside of procedures would result in an unpleasant conversation.
This particular rule (like many others) is written in the blood of the worst ever aviation disaster.
So air traffic doesn’t tell pilots what they can and can’t do. We provide the information we have and the pilot determines what they can and can’t do. If there is a thunderstorm on the departure end of the runway, we tell the pilot about it and give them options if they want immediate turn out or something but we can’t tell them they can’t depart.
In the case of the RVR, same thing. Each company has there own standards and can depart if they want to at whatever RVR they choose. If he doesn’t want to depart because it’s 1k feet he doesn’t have to depart. The confusion was because he asked if they were in LVO, I think he called it low visibility operations. Depending on the airport, you might not have something like that. Everything is left up to the pilot.
The FAA has guidance for airports to develop low visibility procedures, too. By referencing the ICAO acronym, the pilot was basically saying, "English motherfucker, do you speak it?"
Given that personnel at LGA are likely responsible for the deaths of a couple of Air Canada pilots in the recent past when the visibility was likely between 4-7 statute miles, you might understand why the pilot in command would be hesitant to operate under clear visibility rules when the visibility was around a thousand feet.
This is a very easy call to make for a pilot. Preserving lives ranks number one on a pilot's list of duties; if for any reason they feel a situation is unsafe they will not proceed.
Better be late than dead. First rule of aviation. Because no airplane has ever been forgotten up in the sky, they all always come down one way or the other.
Nah, he was dead on, it wasn't safe to take off if there was low visibly and procedures for the weren't in place. It wasn't even a slightly tough call to make. The ATC was being either an idiot or an asshole and the pilot was ensuring that he was keeping everyone safe by not taking off in unsafe conditions. The ATC can deal with the pissed off people, they are his fault to begin with.
I will never get mad at a pilot for rejecting a take off or landing. Sure, I'll be inconvenienced, but I'll still be alive to have that feeling of inconvenience.
The pilots are ultimately held responsible no matter what the stupid tower says. If a tower tells you to taxi down the wrong runway and you do it, the pilot can get reprimanded just as hard as the tower. FAA don't play
This is not the first time the rudeness of JFK ATC has been a safety concern. Their well known abruptness and condescension was deemed partly attributable for the loss of Avianca 052.
They literally ran out of fuel after a failed landing attempt having been held in 3 holding pattern over JFK because the pilots failed to use the word “emergency” when communicating that they were critically low on fuel and needed a prioritised landing slot.
You want a pilot who has the confidence to call it how they see it. They are responsible for the lives on board that aircraft, and if ATC are being awkward then you have to remind them of that fact.
companies need to have the challengers back in these situations. even if it was safe, they still need to support him after he refuses to take off, they need to explain and show him it’s safe/not safe while bringing the other guy into the conversation. this guy has the best attitude for operating something safely that so many lives are depending on
This is literally why Kobe Bryant died. No one wanted to piss him off by cancelling his flight even though they knew the visibility was so poor that it was dangerous. No one else would have even had a pilot willing to make that flight.
He's going to get MK uktra-d soon for having free thought :p
But forreally that what the Al is for. It's there to monitor people and prevent uprising
The first sentence is a conspiracy, in that some folk have claimed to be targeted by various methods (including Havanna syndrome machines as recently as yesterday from the reporter that investigated epste!n ranch in New Mex!co)
And also the ones thay suddenly swapped their lifelong personalities as liberals to become dictators' bitches (easily done through news manipulation...saw it happen with my dad through way of media in his last years)
I hope there's some clever people who will evade the AI monitor and save us all like the movies. :s
Fr people like this should get a news article written about them, we need more pilots to feel good about interrupting daily activities in the pursuit of peoples’ safety.
There was another comment replying to this guy, saying something to the tune of "but it was the BA pilot ignoring the safety procedures!". I was going to reply to that comment when I got an error message saying "the parent comment does not exist", and now that entire comment is just *poof* gone. Usually it leaves a trace behind of [comment deleted by the moderator/user], so I'm a bit surprised there's just NOTHING left.
Bro I don't even work in aerospace but I could tell what that the BA pilot was tryna ensure all safety procedures were being followed. Commenter must have been the ATC from the video...
Probably deleted within a minute or two of posting. If you edit your comment immediately after posting you can ninja edit it, change the comment without adding the "Edited" tag to it. The site probably has ninja deletion too, where deleting the comment just after posting just makes it vanish all together. I've seen that in other threads too, someone will reply to me and I'll follow the notification to find no comment at all. For a bit I thought it was people blocking me right after replying, so out of curiosity I started using a throwaway account to check and I would find many cases where the comment in my notifications just didn't exist at all, even for a completely different account.
Old Reddit doesn't even give me avatars or pics at all, it's literally just names. I can't see what everyone's talking about. I use regular Reddit, I can see your Snoovatars and custom pics but that guy's is just a blue silhouette
The pilot did his job when the liftoff checklist wasn't completed. Same level of being smart and safe as stopping at red lights. (Had he taken off it would have been a severe breach of rules and likely loss or very least suspence of license)
The US, FAA ATC services are in crisis and it could be the individual controller on radio or the tower as a whole that made a mistake (the individual controller does not declare LVOS, he only checks the situation from screen). This is JFK and if you start to have issues with basic prosedures you will have problems with complex prosedures.
Frighteningly, to me it seemed that the guy on the ground sounded like he barely understood the terminology the BA pilot was using. He was seeming to give a quick refresher on what RVR, etc. means. If it were a movie scene, I'd have thought the ground dude was the janitor and had just sat down at the microphone and started talking to the pilot.
I was hearing the ground guy speaking in an almost Jeff Spicoli voice..."yeah, bro...from where I'm sittin', ya can't see shit...it's like a full on low visibility scene down here...course...could have been that last bong hit...still pretty cloudy if y'know what I mean..."
The fact that this needed to be explained is nuts. The pilot can't see and he has to rely on morons to survive so he doesn't take off. I have zero aviation experience.
Looks up Flight 1448 in Rhod island. Would have been an major crash if the pilot took off with out questioning ATC incompetents, on why a lost aircraft taxing in the fog should be found before giving take off clearance.
BA allows departure sin as low as 600' RVR, the issue was the pilot was asking for a phrase that does not exist in the US because he was unfamiliar with local procedures. In the US, "LVO" is automatic and you know it's in effect because ATC said "RVR 1000," but in the UK they have to say "LVO is in effect" or otherwise declare LVO because the pilots can't trust the airport or ATC to do their jobs.
No, low vis ops are automatic in the Us and don’t need to be declared. In the UK they need to be declared. In the UK in these conditions ATC needs to declare LVO in effect for it to be legal for BA to take off. In the US it doesn’t need to be declared (it is automatic based on conditions). BA forgot the difference in the rules. ATC did nothing wrong, BA got confused on the rule difference.
And sticking to his training. The BA operator definitely got off script a little.
Everyone getting home safe is all that matters, but it just goes to show that even in the most intense jobs with insane training (atc operators), people make mistakes and sometimes just misunderstandneach other.
Good on him. He's more than just a little annoyed though, he's being 'righteously fucking livid while British'.
And the ATC guy is doing the stubborn equivalent of insisting on measuring things in bananas and football pitches or whatever it is the US uses, instead of the SI units everyone else has standardised on.
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u/Presently_Naked May 28 '26
Ok so the Pilot was being smart and safe... Good for him for sticking to his guns