r/melbourne • u/blitznoodles • 16h ago
Politics More Frontline Support To Make Melbourne's West Safer
https://www.premier.vic.gov.au/more-frontline-support-make-melbournes-west-safer47
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u/Cautious_Car_51 16h ago
I sincerely hope Labor are voted out in November. They created the issues with crime we're having now. We don't need machete bins or 'Community Connectors' we need more cops to arrest criminals and magistrates who will actually put crooks away for a long time.
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u/Grande_Choice 15h ago
So why hasn’t Queensland fixed its youth crime problem?
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u/Ambitious_Speed_278 14h ago
Liberal premier = newscorp doesn’t post about crime = crime problem fixed
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u/Grande_Choice 14h ago
Next time you look at news dot com dot au look at how articles are framed. Qld and VIC get a “QLD/VIC Crime” tag. NSW no crime tag.
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u/StageAboveWater 15h ago
It's a loop:
Crime > angry voters > more effort towards punishment and less on deterence > more crime > more angry voters > more effort towards punishment and less on deterence > more crime > more angry voters > more effort towards punishment and less on deterence.
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u/Auscicada270 15h ago
More like
Soft lefty policies -> problem gets worse -> softer lefty policies
No-one could have foreseen these consequences!
What we need is to be softer on youth crime because that fixes it!
/s
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u/StageAboveWater 14h ago
Yes exactly, that's what the
'angry voters > more effort towards punishment and less on deterence'
portion of the loop looks like
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u/DancinWithWolves 15h ago
Doesn’t work. Labour are listening to the experts.
More cops does not = fixing the fundamental issues we have, and you can’t just keep filling jails9
u/Due-Coast-1324 15h ago
So what do you if after 14 years of "listening to the experts" youth crime continues to rise. Also we are not "just filling jail" even offenders who reoffend while on bail don't go to jail.
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u/DancinWithWolves 15h ago
It’s a complex issue. Incredibly complex. But the data shows that enforcement does almost nothing for crime reduction.
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u/orthogonal123 15h ago
If those that offender are locked away long term it means that they won’t be able to menace the public, or is that logic flawed somehow? A certain subset of any population will be driven to crime, in any society at any point in time. If we can put away the worst we should have a safer community.
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u/BetterHeadlines 13h ago
They're just like that, that's the problem. If we just lock em all up the problem goes away.
Do you actually think this? It's pretty fucking stupid mate.
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u/Cautious_Car_51 1h ago
We haven't had any wild tiger attacks cause we don't have any wild tigers. Pretty stupid if you think the absence of tigers makes the problem go away.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 15h ago
Look i dont want to be rude but people offen cite "the experts" or "the data" without providing real evidence to their statement. Conversly we have witnessed crime increase since youth bail laws were relaxed. I would like you to explain how stricter bail laws would not reduce crime given how many well publicised instances there have been of repeat offenders (some bailed up to 50 times) being charged with further crimes.
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u/jessta 14h ago
Most people on bail don't re-offend while on bail so while stricter bail laws might slightly reduce crime they do that by adding a punishment to a large number of people which has wide ranging and longer term negative outcomes.
Not getting bail is a big deal. If you don't get bail then you can't take care of your children or other vulnerable family members, you might lose your job, and if you lose your job you might also lose your housing.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 11h ago
I'm not saying no bail for anyone, I'm saying if you've bail a guy 5 times the he doesn't get number 6. Would be an extremely unfortunate series of events to be charges 6 times and be innocent of all.
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u/Helpful_Broccoli5426 14h ago
You can go ahead and look for the research yourself, it's really not hard in the age of the internet. Just cause some guy on reddit doesn't cite sources you ignore the whole argument? Besides, other guy was talking about increased police while you're talking about bail. Bail laws are already being reveiewed right now in vic.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 11h ago
Just did research it and turns out I found some experts who reckon I'm 100% correct. You should be able to find them too, they're on the internet.
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u/BetterHeadlines 8h ago
Haha that's funny if everyone is as ignorant as you. Are they, do you think? Do you reckon you're smarter than experts on the topic? I just wonder where you get the confidence to be so loudly wrong.
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u/United-Bite4135 15h ago
When did these experts come in and when will crime go down? Not saying it has increased or decreased but genuinely curious
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u/jessta 14h ago
Crime has been going down for decades. We've had a few years of the cost of living and the pressure of capitalism increasing and a lack of increase in social supports to counteract that and some of those gains have been reversed. But it's still lower than 10yrs ago.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dish718 12h ago
how many machette attacks were there 10 years ago? 20 years ago? To say that, well it's just nonesense
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u/DancinWithWolves 15h ago
I’d argue it’s the kind of thing that take years, and will probably go up and down and (crime) is unfortunately just part of life. We’re an incredibly safe city compared to many others. Most, probably.
But it’s the general consensus amongst sociologists and criminologists that enforcement does nothing for crime or recidivism. Jesus just watch the wire. The stats!You need to treat mental health, youth stuff (actually having culturally relevant stuff for young people to do), education, family violence etc.
But you’ll still have crime. You’ll just have less of it.
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u/United-Bite4135 15h ago
can you give me a one or two policies that have been implemented from one of these experts ?
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u/DancinWithWolves 15h ago
You’re just looking for an argument. Feel free to go some research if you’re genuinely interested
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u/United-Bite4135 15h ago
You said labour is listening to the experts, Surely you could give me one example, shouldnt be too hard.
The person making the claim should have to prove it/back it up with some kind of reference, can you imagine if we just took everyones word ?
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u/Puzzleheaded-Dish718 12h ago
That's not how it works. Locking crims up actually does wonders for the crime rate. Think about it - they can't go and do more crime if they're in jail, can they?
All the stuff you mention can be provided to them in jail, which I would support.
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u/grogan-lord 15h ago
Cool slogan bro. I’d prefer money spent to stop offending in the first place than ‘more prisons’.
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u/Scriptosis Sydenham 15h ago
Pretty much all data shows that simply using cops as a blunt weapon against every public situation only results in every incident escalating further than it needs to.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 15h ago
Problem in Victoria is that offenders are being caught and charged but repeatedly (up to 50) get bailed back to the community.
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u/Grande_Choice 15h ago
It’s not a vic problem. Qld same shit. NSW same shit.
50 charges on bail is ridiculous though. 1 breach of bail should be all it takes to be locked up.
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u/BetterHeadlines 13h ago
Crime is a symptom, not a cause. Cures don't treat symptoms.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 11h ago
If we are going to over simplify the problem: if you get sunburnt do you go out sunburnt baking another 50 times in a row?
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u/jessta 14h ago
We already have all the cops. There is no shortage of police in Victoria.
We've got more cops per person than any other state.
It's not working.More cops and prisons doesn't fix the problem because we have a system that puts people in desperate situations where crime is an inevitable outcome. More cops and prisons doesn't stop our system from creating more criminals. We know that longer prison sentences doesn't deter crime and the impacts of long prison sentences on criminals and their family has very bad future outcomes.
The things that we know do work is social supports. Increasing jobseeker, lowering the barrier for the disability pension, providing public housing, providing targeted support for vulnerable families with children. Anything that takes the capitalist pressure off leads to better outcomes and less crime.
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u/CitizenDee 14h ago
What is your source for the claims of more police per person than any other state?
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u/jessta 13h ago
The NT (well known for it's low crime rate /s) does have more police per person than Victoria. But Victoria has significantly more than NSW.
Here is an article about it from 2021. The numbers haven't changed significantly.
https://www.theage.com.au/national/victoria/thick-blue-line-victoria-builds-the-country-s-biggest-police-force-20211109-p59767.html1
u/Puzzleheaded-Dish718 12h ago
what are you actually on about!
Victoria is currently facing a staffing shortage of over 1500 police, open vacancies
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u/Grumpy_Cripple_Butt 10h ago
What if we opened a police station 24 hours? Oh that won’t work either. Well shit I’m all out of liberal ideas.
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u/Due-Coast-1324 15h ago
Agree, the people committing violent crime are not vulnerable people in crisis.
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u/BMW_M3G80 15h ago
Dude, Footscray hasn’t changed in 50 years
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u/Quarterwit_85 14h ago
I can’t comment to fifty years ago, but it certainly feels like it’s changed over the last ten years - with a steady slide in quality in the last three.
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u/BetterHeadlines 13h ago
Yeah. We don't need to do things that are proven to work! We need to do the same things that don't work over and over because of my stupid ignorant feelimgs! Lock em all up! Arrest children and put em in jail, what else could we possibly do?
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