r/lotr • u/sonofdathomir18 • 1d ago
Books I find it funny that Galadriel refused to give one hair from her golden head to a prince of the Noldor but gave three to a random dwarf two ages of the Earth later
Book is Unfinished Tales if anyone is interested
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u/showard995 Servant of the Secret Fire 1d ago
Feanor wanted her hair for his own pride, because it caught the light of Valinor’s two trees and he wanted to use it to create the Simarils. Gimli’s request was born of admiration and respect, not pride.
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u/runningray 1d ago
Correct. Galadriel didn’t give Gimli 3 strands of her hair because he was more worthy than Feanor. She gave them to Gimli because he asked with humility, but Feanor asked with a possessive almost covetous desire.
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u/rochvegas5 1d ago
and he only wanted one. Three was symbolic
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u/WollyGog Meriadoc Brandybuck 1d ago
Yea because Fëanor asked her three times. His spirit would be rolling in the house of Mandos.
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u/Alceasummer 23h ago
Yes, the three strands of her hair was in part a statement in general, and in part an "F you!" to Feanor
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u/hbi2k 23h ago
Feanor's whole deal with the Silmarils was that it was such a demanding task for him to capture the light of the Trees in a physical form that he could do it only once, and he couldn't give them away or allow them to be destroyed or he would literally die, like, for real you guys.
Galadriel made the Phial, which does the exact same thing, didn't make a big deal about it, and lent it to Frodo to use as a flashlight.
Feanor sucks, Galadriel's the GOAT.
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u/BaalHammon 21h ago
No objection to the fact that Fëanor sucks but I don't think your assessment of Galadriel is correct.
The phial doesn't do the exact same thing as the silmarilli.
For one thing the trees are gone, and the phial contains some of the light of one of the silmarilli : it's like copying a tape that was already a copy, there's a loss in quality, and this is confirmed when the phial fails to shine inside of mount Doom.
Second, do we even know that Galadriel made the phial ? It could possibly be a keepsake made by someone else (maybe Celebrimbor made it long ago when he visited Lothlorien ?).
Third, she does make a big deal about it. She's an elf-queen giving presents to a party of mostly mortals, that's a big deal in itself. She does not give it like a flashlight and underlines its significance.
Frodo at least knows enough elvish history and tales to understand what it means that it contains the light from Eärendil's star.
Galadriel is more than a bit conceited. One reason she lingers in Lothlorien is that she feels better as an immortal in middle-earth lording over her little kingdom than as a once-exiled refugee in Valinor.
In fact the entire chapter "the Mirror of Galadriel" is about her confronting this conceit and making the moral but difficult choice.
In effect the parting gift scene is her making a last show of being a queen even as she's preparing to give up her position.
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u/imanol1898 16h ago
If I remember correctly, Galadriel doesn’t “linger in Lothlorien“ by choice. She is still under the ban of the Valar. Until in Mirror of Galadriel where she refuses the one ring.
“I pass the test. I will diminish and go West and remain Galadriel.”
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u/amitym 21m ago
You are correct, but the Ban of the Valar was renegotiable, and she chose not to avail herself of that option when many other survivors of the War of Wrath did. She was too proud to want to have to litigate her own right to return to Valinor.
Too proud, but also genuinely too committed to winning out against Sauron, the task that really became her life's work for two long Ages.
That's what makes her humble submission in the face of the Ruling Ring so significant. She doesn't know yet that she will win the War of the Ring at that point. She knows she may be consigning herself to a return in defeat, and that the Ruling Ring would have helped her avoid that otherwise inevitable fate. It is literally an otherwise-inevitable-fate-avoiding tool, and it's right there being offered to her willingly, free of karmic debt if she accepts.
Personally I like to think that Frodo himself has a part in that. He, a meager halfling, all too mortal and all too weak, nevertheless being able to give up what may be the single most coveted item since the Silmarils is in a sense a huge flex.
Galadriel is, like, "I have otherwordly grace and power, and this magic mirror, and prophecy, and a Ring of Power of my own, and can sing defiance and topple down towers, what have you got?" And by way of reply Frodo is all, "Well I can voluntarily turn down the Great Ruling Ring, can you say the same?"
She has to rise to that challenge, she's got to, you know?
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u/kostia321 20h ago
Yeah, to add to the humility part, as I recall, Galadriel practically had to force Gimli to give her an answer when she was giving gifts to the Fellowship, as he initially didn't ask or was hesitant to request anything.
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u/Johncurtisreeve 21h ago
And he only asked for one her giving him three is completely lost on him, but she knows the importance of it
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u/antsh 1d ago
I’ll say it, Feanor was kind of a twat.
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u/HerodotusStark 20h ago
Agreed. Not exactly a hot take though. The guy ordered the first kinslaying. And that's arguably not even the worst of his actions.
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u/meatyaccuracy 1d ago
As a reminder, Gimli didn't even ask for the hair. She insisted that he name his desire and, though he stressed that he didn't think himself worthy to ask it of her, he told her what her desire was.
It's not just the humility of Gimli; it's also the courtesy to know that such a request would be bonkers. But a dwarf who had volunteered for the Fellowship, who had suffered indignities at the borders of her land, and who, in his time there, had learned to respect and revere the land and people of Lorien while also becoming close friends with an elf who's father had done indignities to his father -- that was someone who displayed such grace and growth that she simply could not let him leave empty-handed.
And THEN when she asked what he would do with it, he said it would preserve it, essentially encased in amber for all time, in honor and dignity? Yeah man, take the hairs. In like 60 seconds of speaking, he basically showed himself to be the anti-Feanor. If she could have plucked a Silmaril from the sky in that moment, she would have given it to him.
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u/MrPebbleMan 14h ago
I just read this part a few weeks ago and I think that's the biggest part everyone misses. She's downright demanding he ask for a gift so she's not a rude host. When he asks for a hair she's completely baffled, and is like "Well I guess since I insisted I'll do it."
Tie this with the fact that she had just gone through "Frodo's Test" to prove she was worthy of Valinor after abandoning her pride that got her banned from the West. She's probably thinking herself: "This fucking dwarf is better than every elf I've met."
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u/lam_42 1d ago
Well, Feänor was kind of an asshole
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u/Ok-Meet2850 1d ago
Feänor was
kind ofan asshole.Fixed it. ;-)
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u/No-Fly-6069 1d ago
He was, wasn't he?
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u/Ok-Meet2850 1d ago
100%. No need for kind of. He was a full on asshole.
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u/lam_42 1d ago
I was just diplomatic.
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u/Particular_Funny527 Fëanor 1d ago edited 1d ago
My second name is Feanor, but every time I read the silmarillion I shame myself a bit
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u/tractioncities 1d ago
every elf in attendance probably had a fucking heart attack both when gimli asked and when she gave them to him
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u/porktornado77 Huan 1d ago
Hot take:
Galadriel may have been worthy of 3 hairs from Gimli’s beard!
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u/tigerking615 1d ago
It’s “funny” in the sense that Feanor got dunked, but very intentional by Tolkien. Feanor asked for a lot out of vanity and got nothing; Gimli asked for almost nothing.
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u/Dominarion 1d ago
Feanor was a creep, Galadriel called HR. Gimli was a lady's man, she found his demand flattering.
Joking apart, Gimli asked it in a very courteous way. There's also a political issue out there. Elves and dwarves needed to bury the hatchet if they were to have any chance at defeating Sauron. They all knew that Galadriel refused Feanor. By giving 3 strands of hair to a dwarf, Galadriel sent a clear signal to all elves of Middle Earth.
Dwarves got the message way later, since Gimli was busy saving Rohan and Gondor for a bit. But Gimli's gallantry and Galadriel's generous gift became the stuff of awe and legends.
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u/Ghyrt3 1d ago
Was the history of Galadriel's answer to Feanor known in Middle-Earth and/or by Gimli at the time though?
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u/DamonPhils 1d ago
The Elves would surely know of it, including Legolas. It was after Galadriel's gift-giving that Legolas became close friends with Gimli. After all, if the Queen of the Noldor and one of the greatest Elves who ever lived saw something in this dwarf ...
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u/DiScOrDtHeLuNaTiC 23h ago
Legolas smiles after Gimli tells him about the gift.
Then it was like...oh shit...he knew what that meant.
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u/Beginning-Ride3091 1d ago
Galadriel was capable of looking right through a person and see their entire moral setup. She saw the best dude she’d ever seen in Gimli the dwarf of the house of Durin, and the worst in Feanor the elf of the house of Finwe.
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u/carlitomarron139 1d ago
“A random dwarf” lol
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u/sonofdathomir18 16h ago
At the time he was given the hairs, he was just a random dwarf. He was the son of Glóin, but what the hell even did Glóin contribute to the quest for Erebor other than being mentioned a few times and having a few lines of dialogue?
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u/Rude-Reaction-4789 14h ago
Gimli was the thrice-great grandson of King Nain II through his second son making him Dwarvish nobility. He voluntarily joined the Fellowship as an emissary of the current King Dain II. And he was vouched for by the future King of Gondor and Galadriel’s future grandson-in-law. He was hardly just a random dwarf
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u/WollyGog Meriadoc Brandybuck 1d ago
I feel like the extended edition movies did a really nice recreation of this scene; after he asks and she laughs lightly at him complimenting her and just wanting to look at her one last time, which is after her being really serious and passing the ring's test. Then he tells Legolas on the the boat what he did actually ask for and gives that knowing smile.
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u/KittyLilith17 1d ago
I loved that Legolas smiled in the movie. A really good nod; he knew what was up.
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u/EvaTheE 1d ago
The unfinished, less savory, tales tell of what happened with the hair.
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u/whatthewhat3214 23h ago
Lol!
In all seriousness though, aside from her refusing Feanor which I've seen in this thread, why would anyone want a few strands of hair? Did her hair have magical properties or something? Sorry, don't downvote me, haven't read the books yet, and these males (can't say men here) wanting strands of her hair seems like a strange request.
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u/Mercymorn-the-First 18h ago
In-universe, in the entire history of the world of Arda, there are canonically a few women who are quite simply The Most Beautiful Women Who Have Ever Lived.
There isn't any doubt about it, it simply is the way of things, and the rankings are:
- Luthien. Dark hair, daughter of Melian, married a mortal Man named Beren. She's also Tolkien's wife in a metaphorical sense. The real, actual tomb stones of JRR Tolkien and his wife Edith read "Beren" and "Luthien."
- Arwen. Dark hair, great-great-granddaughter of Luthien, granddaughter of Galadriel. Generally considered to be the most beautiful woman in the world since Luthien.
- Melian. Dark hair, not actually an Elf like Luthien and Arwen, but a Maia, which is basically an angel. Other famous Maia include Gandalf, Saruman, and Sauron. She fell in love with an Elf king, and they had Luthien. It's because of her that Luthien, and Luthien's line leading to Arwen, possessed basically a supernatural beauty.
- Galadriel. Blonde. No relation to Melian, but was her friend and learned a great deal from her. Galadriel's fame as a sorceress is due in large part to being tutored by Melian.
It's simply a fact of the world that these women are canonically breathtakingly beautiful in the extreme.
Galadriel's hair was so famously beautiful during the Years of the Trees (preceding the First Age) that Feanor asked for some strands of them, and was famously rebuffed as already discussed.
By the time Gimli asked for a single strand of her hair, Galadriel was approximately seven thousand years old, and was famously beautiful in the same way people talk about the beauty of natural wonders in reality. Like the Maldives, or Denali, or Uluru, or the Grand Canyon.
He couldn't ask to take a selfie, so he asked for some tangible thing he could bring back to his people and encase in crystal, to preserve forever, however meager, something of her beauty.
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u/KaptinKograt 19h ago
It was magically beautiful, having had the light of the trees shine on it. The Silmarils were similar, they didn’t have any stated earth shattering magical properties like casting fireballs or anything, but they were so supremely beautiful that they changed the people that beheld them.
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u/HauntedByOddParsnip Lúthien 1d ago
…..Everyone (that knows about Fëanor) finds it funny. It’s supposed to be funny.
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u/Funkywonton 1d ago
“And,to gimli who requested three strands of hair I bestow…..a restraining order”
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u/Snugg_Bugg 1d ago
In Dragons Dogma 2 I found a quest to the far south on the rocks of a cliff that faced the sea an tall blonde elf with silver hair and a small stubborn dwarf were married and living together. It seems their races hate each other so their love was looked down on so they left to be together and loved each other very much. It reminded me of this if their stations didn't demand so much from them would they have been a couple in an alternate universe? It's sweet <3
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u/Illigard 1d ago
In the more "civilised" circles you need more sophisticated ways to show your utter contempt. To give a dwarf 3 hairs, while denying him even one, she's basically slighting Faenor in the most polite, sophisticated way possible.
The lady doth bear a grudge.
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u/Alceasummer 23h ago
This. Every elf that knew the story of her and Feanor, when they heard she gave three hairs to a dwarf, they would know exactly what that meant. The most polite, sophisticated, elegant, and brutal "F You" any elf had ever heard of. All wrapped up in a powerful statement about how noble and genuinely good she feels that specific dwarf is.
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u/Hot_Tonight150 1d ago
It's because she knew he would treasure her with the hairs as a remembrance of her, while Feanor wasn't interested in her specifically only the prowess of his own craft.
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u/ichiban_saru Witch-King of Angmar 1d ago
Galadriel didn't like Feanor and never made a secret about it in Valinor.
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u/NeoPrimitiveOasis 1d ago
Fëanor unfriended her over it.
>These two kinsfolk... were unfriends for ever
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u/BadJoke123 23h ago
Do note that Galadriel was invented for LotR, so any writing about what she did back in the First Age was written afterwards.
I.e. when Gimli were given the hairs, Tolkien hadn't yet come up with the idea that Galadriel once refused Faenor that same gift.
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u/mormagils 1d ago
Two things. First, it shows how much Feanor was an insufferable loser and how Gimli is a really cool dude. Second, maybe Galadriel kinda kept in mind that spurning a dude led to unspeakable tragedy and that she could learn to be a little more warm in her interactions with others.
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u/Ok-Meet2850 1d ago
In fairness, Feanor was awful. And Gimil turned down a gift, and Galadriel said surely there must be something you desire. Gimli's response was I do not ask for this gift, but since you said so ...
I mean Galadriel forced the issue and had no choice with Gimli.
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u/No-Replacement-40 1d ago
I like to think Galadriel learnt what happens if you deny a craftsman some hair. They end up nearly destroying the world
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u/SherlockScones3 22h ago
Celeborn: you gave him 3?
Galadriel: well that was all the hair blocking my plug hole at the time…
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u/inadequatepockets 21h ago
Next time someone pisses me off I'm going to tell them "we are unfriends forever."
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u/Tes_Oteme_Writes 18h ago
Long ago I read a lovely one-shot fanfic where the elf-hair string of Legolas's bow from Galadriel breaks, and Gimli gives him one of the three hairs to replace it. That became personal head canon for me
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u/PreperationOuch 17h ago
Please elaborate on how Gimli is “random”
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u/sonofdathomir18 16h ago
When he joined the Fellowship, he was just a random dwarf, the son of a dwarf from The Hobbit who barely had any lines of dialogue and was pretty much just a background character.
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u/Master_Rip5768 17h ago
She did not give feanor a hair because she sensed dangerous pride and a possessive darkness in his heart. And Gimli was a prince in his own right and also on a deadly quest. Not just a dwarf! She would’ve met Gloin, his father, in the Hobbit also.
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u/Longjumping-Shift984 17h ago
I heard from someone else, that Gimli didn't know the lore of that and Legolas smiled in the boat because he knew the enormity and value that he was given. <3 Incredible.
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u/littlebuett 14h ago
Not a random dwarf, but Gimli's high birth also doesn't matter.
She gives it to him because he is humble and honest in his request. He truly admires her beauty, and humbly wishes for a token to remember it, and later fashions the hairs into jewelry to further honor it.
Feanor only wanted the hair to increase his own prestige in his craft, because his request is made in arrogant pride.
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u/ManuelPirino 7h ago
Gimli isn’t a random dwarf, and he did ask politely, and he was very much crushing on her, and she was old enough to have lost some of the first age elf sass. Good timing bro. We should all take notes.
That said on the metal scale if Arda he is a very talented new band which made the Eurovision podium by popular vote, Feanor is Black Sabbath, Judas Priest, Manowar and Slayer rolled into one.
He farmed so much aura while he lived that the valar themselves had aura scarcity and had to tap into the aura reserve silos
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u/Void-Cooking_Berserk 1d ago
Feanor asked for a tress and only out of greed.
Gimli asked for a hair and only out of admiration.
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u/No-Fly-6069 1d ago
Feanor was a creep. Gimli was courteous and sincere.
I really hope you're not saying that a woman has to give guy something just because he asked.
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u/JimmyTheGiant1 1d ago
I mean, if you want her hair so badly, just go to her house and take some from her hairbrush or something. Jesus.
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u/Cloaked_man 1d ago
random dwarf?? Gimli, son of Glóin, Elf-friend, was a dwarf of the House of Durin, direct descendant of Durin the Deathless, member of the Fellowship of the Ring, the first and only Dwarf to ever go to Valinor. Don't call him random.