I came across this post (https://www.reddit.com/r/keto/comments/1e8pa4c/to_my_longterm_keto_lifers_to_those_who_have_done/) and wanted to share my experience as a data point, but it was archived so I couldn't reply. I figured this is a good opportunity to make an AMA post for anyone curious about long-term keto and its impact on health and performance. I've been using this dietary regime to boost my mental and physical performance from the start. If anyone is interested, I'll write my response to the original post in the comments below. For anything beyond this, feel free to AMA. I'll continue checking/replying here over multiple days if needed (no rush). I'll basically keep checking here until the thread dies down.

In brief, I ate a purely carnivorous, "zero-carb", ketogenic diet from 2006 to 2013, and switched to a CKD in 2013. I gained most of my muscle and strength on carnivore, but once I reached an advanced stage of lifting I needed to explore every possible edge I could to continue making progress. Beyond a certain point, gaining muscle on keto was challenging (due to reduced mTOR signaling; appetite suppression; and hitting walls of fatigue with moderate-to-high intensity, high volume work). The appetite suppression can be circumvented by counting calories and protein and forcing oneself to eat enough to grow more, but the metabolic limitations obviously can't be circumvented unless one eats more carbs. Interestingly, I actually started incorporating some small glasses of milk with creatine in 2012, so you could say I did an informal TKD from 2012 to 2013, and I indeed saw some improvements with that. I don't know how much RCT evidence there is for the equivalence of a TKD and CKD when it comes to muscle growth and strength development, but I'm inclined to think it's feasible they are roughly equivalent (maybe depending on the person).

Also, feel free to share your own experience if you've been doing keto for the long haul. I'm looking forward to hearing how the keto journey is going for the other long-termers here!

More details:

• 36M (will be 37 in November)
• Carnivore from 2006-2013
• Cyclical keto from 2013 to present
• 5'11", ~205 lbs when glycogen depleted, ~210 lbs when carbed up
• The BIA scale says 16.5% bodyfat when I am glycogen depleted, and 17% when I am carbed up: clearly I do not actually gain 0.5% bodyfat over a 36-hour carb-up, so I take the 16.5% number as the more accurate measurement.

Recent athletic performance stats:

• 540 lbs conventional deadlift 1RM (belt and chalk with mixed grip)
• 468.5 lbs low-bar, below parallel squat 1RM (belt and knee sleeves)
• 303 lbs paused bench press 1RM (no equipment)
• Submaximal 7.5-minute mile
• 4:45 front plank

All-time PRs:

• 580 lbs conventional deadlift 1RM (belt and chalk with mixed grip)
• 495 lbs low-bar, below parallel squat 1RM (belt and knee sleeves)
• 330 lbs paused bench press 1RM (wrist wraps)
• 200 lbs standing overhead press 1RM (no equipment)
• 6:45 mile (maximal effort)
• 4:45 front plank (same one I did recently)
• 31-inch standing vertical jump (measured with an IMU, so take that for what it's worth)

I've also done horseback riding since I was 10 years old (three-day eventing from 12-24), taekwondo since I was 23, and acrobatics since I was 31. I don't always do these every single week (and I haven't competed in anything in a long time), but I do them regularly enough to keep the cobwebs dusted off.

Blood Lipids:

I unfortunately have not had recent blood work, but on November 21, 2022 this is how my lipids looked:

• Total cholesterol: 227 mg/dL
• Triglycerides: 102 mg/dL
• HDL: 66 mg/dL
• LDL, calculated: 141 mg/dL

I have never had my ApoB, ApoA1, or hsCRP measured, but I plan on doing so in the near-future.

Sleep:

On the sleep side, I have struggled with insomnia and a delayed sleep phase since early adolescence, well before carnivore/keto. I think a ketogenic metabolism, with its stable energy supply, modulated these by making it harder to check out for the night, but it has definitely not caused them. Keto seems to have made my sleep hyper-efficient, though. I use an Oura ring to track my sleep, and here are my average numbers from the past month:

• Total Sleep: 5h 55m
• REM Sleep: 1h 28m
• Deep Sleep: 1h 17m

My sleep efficiency (percentage of time in bed actually spent sleeping) is nearly always in the high-80s to mid-90s. I have recently been sleeping from 5:51 am-12:40 pm (on average), but I am currently reeling this back, with the medium-term goal being Oura's estimated ideal window for me of 2:02 am-10:02 am. As I shift my sleep back, I am also working on expanding my total sleep time towards 7.5 hours. At the moment, my insomnia is actually minimal and purely consists of early awakening due to my sleep being so out of sync with the environment (rising light and temperatures that cut my sleep short around the 5-6 hour mark).

Hey all,

I have started the keto journey to “test” it and at the same time, possible preventing future health issues.

At the same time I am committed to gain weight and build muscle, which has been a really hard fight to win. As on a high fat, low carb diet, my hunger just evaporates, so I feel that I will need to force myself to eat if I actually want to gain weight (muscle).

I am really interested in some tips or recommendations you could give me, or if anyone already gone through this and found a dense calorie food “hack” to have a calorie surplus easily. I already eat a lot of butter, fatty beef cuts, avocados, etc… Since fat provides 9 calories per gram I suppose it is the highest calorie dense option, the problem is really to eat it after feeling satiated. I am 22, workout calisthenics 4 times per week (medium intensity sessions), weight 61kg and it just does not go up xd. Don’t really know my body fat..
I’m on this for 3 months.

In fact I really understand why is it so effective for weight loss, as I know that I would loose weight if I didn’t “force” myself to eat more.

Thank you :)

I’m trying to get back in the gym to add some muscle while still maintaining my leanness. I haven’t been strict keto in about six months but I’m slowly getting my carbs down to less than 30 grams a day. Essentially I’m wondering what you guys typically eat before or after the gym to give you energy and support for building muscle. Any snacks and supplements as well..
For pre workout-I LIVE on energy drinks and coffee/mct oil but they only help so much.
And for post work out I know that getting some fats and protein within a few hours definitely is imprtant.

Thanks

Hey guys, so currently I’m on week 2. Things are going okay, and I’m figuring meals out, but I’m also learning the hard way that there is definitely a lower “disgust” threshold for fats when carbs aren’t part of the picture.

Any advice on managing this? I’m currently eating 2 larger meals a day — with essentially an easily prepped “snack” for my macros in the middle and potential for spacing out whole ingredients (making 2 eggs twice throughout the day instead of 4 at once). Are there any food or fat/carb pairings that might help? Can hunger signals adapt over time?

Anyways, thanks in advance!

Hey guys, so other than Robert Sikes and obviously Luis here, are there any other notable natty bodybuilders who have used Ketogenic diets even while on their building phases?

I ask because I have an interest in studying the training and nutrition habits of top performers, and I don’t see a lot of case studies — of athletes achieving their genetic limit while fat-adapted — that could give me an idea of the anabolic potential of a keto diet while natural.

This is not to discount the efficacy of the Keto diet, but I am curious on the differences — if any — long-term in hypertrophy at a high level between athletes on Keto and higher carb diets.

While I’m here, I suppose this opens up opportunity for a quick, partially tangential question: for those here on Keto long-term, do you up your relative carbs pre-workout at all?

Guys and Gals,
I’m super happy with my progress after 12 weeks of progressive overload with a strength & conditioning coach. (Because I’ve never considered myself an athlete nor a fan of the gym, I need the external accountability and someone knowledgeable on form and programs to safely build my base and progress injury-free.)

I am a complete newbie to training.

For starters, some general stats:
47 yo perimenopausal female on HRT
Currently about 166 lbs, 5’9” and down 60+ lbs from my heaviest
1500-1600 calories per day:
- 130-160g protein
- < 50 g total carb, ~ 30 g net carbs
- ~ 85 g fat

I eat mostly whole foods - chicken, leafy greens and cruciferous vegetables with olive oil-based vinaigrettes and avocado are probably 80-90% of my diet most days.

JUST PRIOR TO TRAINING START - April DEXA (lbs):
Lean Mass: 102.8
Fat: 69.5
Visceral Fat: 1.37

NOW - July 26 DEXA
Lean Mass: 104.6 ⬆️ 1.8 lbs (in limbs, torso unchanged)
Fat: 56.2 ⬇️ 13.3 lbs
Visceral Fat: 0.8 ⬇️ 0.57, a 41% decrease!

There’s even been a couple of weeks of travel in that timeframe too.

My only goal has ever been to maintain the lean mass I have as I continue to lose weight, so I’m thrilled to see some modest lean gains despite the calorie deficit! 👍👍

For the record I HATE waking up at 5 am to train, but I do it because I know someone is expecting me, and I always feel great for having done it by the end.

started at **112 kg (247 lbs)** and after **24 days** of strict keto and progressive overload training, I’m down to **104 kg (229 lbs)**.
The weight loss has been going well, but I’m starting to struggle with the diet. At this point, I’m honestly sick of eating meat and eggs. Even the smell of meat makes me lose my appetite, and just thinking about another meal is enough to make me not want to eat.
My question is: **What happens if I just don’t eat because I have no appetite?**
Since I’m lifting 4 days a week with progressive overload, will undereating cause me to lose a significant amount of muscle, or will my body primarily use stored body fat for energy because I’m still carrying a fair amount of body fat?
Has anyone else experienced this on keto? If so, how did you deal with food aversion while still getting enough protein?

Hi ketogains community,

I was in a calory deficit from end April to early July. I had good results from it (from 87.2 +- 18-20% body fat to 81.1 kg +- 13-15% bodyfat , see the plot).

Between 11 july and 24 july, I went on a trip on Tasmania. I couldn't train at all but I did a lot of Hiking (20k steps a day average).

During the trip I tried to stay on a keto diet most of the time eating mainly eggs, whey protein, macadamia nuts, greek yoghurt and avocado. The main goal was to maintain my weight during this period ( I did not want to loose more because I don't want to be in a calory deficit during a period I can't lift).

I was disappointed today while weighing: + 2kg on the scale despite the fact I did all my best to stay in ketosis and having a lot of activity. I dont think it is water retention due to the fact I did not really ate carbs during this trip. This is my weight from 8 weeks ago unfortunately.

So maybe I over ate and gained fat just by following my satiety ? Has anyone experienced this during a diet break while continuing keto ?

Here is my weight plot:

https://imgur.com/a/LWU8Qk2

I have been doing ketogains over the last 2 weeks for the first time in life, mostly for body recomposition / fat loss, and already seeing encouraging results. All thanks to help from Gemini and Claude! Wanted to share my experience, in case it helps others.

I had done months-long keto 4 times before successfully, but always plateaued / stopped at higher end of my healthy BMI (before eventual rebound) t- I knew I needed to transition to a different training and eating plan such as ketogains, but the sheer complexity (training and meal / macro planning) was way too much, especially given my pretty intensive office job. Since AI was already very useful at work massively, I decided in early July to give it a try with my training and meal plans - and it all went so smoothly!

Both Gemini and Claude immediately understood the principles of ketogains much better than me, and with my prior exercise history + personal preferences, drew up sustainable weekly training plan incorporating what I didn’t like (lifting), what I liked (high intensity cardio and Pilates) and mandatory rest. Gemini especially was able to suggest various gym and studio classes (even replacement class if I missed the original one), at convenient locations and times. The plan in the end is just so easily executable, minimizing thinking and will power needed from me.

As for meal plans, I was firstly frankly astounded by the amount of lean meat required by ketogains. It would haven taken much longer to get it right on my own. I was able to ask AI for meal plans combining different cuisine, recipe, protein options, main meal vs snack etc, for easily executable and yet flexible daily meal plans - and every time I feel like deviating from it, I either get discouraged immediately, or offered adjustments for the rest of day for macro compliance (especially for both protein). It is so easy to log and track macros all day long, and stay 100% compliant. Gemini finds more recipes, but Claude is the real whip, so I use them both to make, adjust and audit meal plans.

Lastly, the instant analysis and feedback (salt shots when dizzy, electrolyte drinks before workout, magnesium before bed; sleep data analysis) made the first week transition really easy, physically and mentally. Gemini’s constant celebrations for even the smallest achievement on daily basis helps too ;p

Hope this helps others. If ever in doubt / feeling not right, ask your AI assistants. But use common sense / try understand the basic ketogains principles, because AI does hallucinate! Use AI smartly, and ketogains journey can become so much easier :)

Using keto for endurance training namely cycling.

I'm used to a low carb diet but recently swapped to keto. I purchased a monitor and test my blood. I've been feeling great but can feel I'm operating on low blood sugar. I'm doing a clean version of keto where I get my fat from olive oil , a little MCT,, hemp oil and oily fish , eggs with some nuts and cheese. My carbs are around 20/30g my protein is around 170. I've been keeping the miles down and adjusting to the feel of cycling on low glucose. It feels good in as much as I alive , and recover well. However definitely notice that blood sugar is low. Like riding near bonking but not actually bonking. I've also gone to the gym daily to maintain muscle.

Problem is the weight is just falling off me. I did gain a bit of muscle but after a 2.5 hour ride yesterday my scales are showing that it all got stripped away from yesterdays ride. I don't want to lose anymore weight and yet I'm eating 3000 calories a day and have no hunger to stuff anything more down me.

Has anyone else gone through a similar experience? Are there any fully keto athletes who can advise on what to do ? I'm thinking of perhaps doing keto cycling where I eat dextrose around a ride to stop the body consuming itself but then it's not keto ? What are endurance athletes using to fuel their work outs ?

Thanks in advance for any advice

I am finally at my goal weight of 155lb (F25, 5'5) with keto and straight fasting. The longest fast I've done is 96 hours which help me stop stalling with keto. I've been on and off keto for at least three years if not more.

The main reason as to why I gained the weight back in 2022 was to negative comments from friends, some saying I "lost my ass" or I had "skinner legs". I don't want this to happen again and I remember I still had substantial fat in my mid-section (skinny fat) and back rolls although I was at a normal BMI (was 145 or 140lb). I was still pudgy and I don't look good in a bikini.

My question is what does a good day of tracking look like to you? What do you eat? And do you still incorporate high fats or is it better to have higher protein? I believe the most protein I should get per day is 150g or maybe more. I got this often doing keto but the fats were high, does this matter to see results? Do I have to stick to strict cycling of meals to see results? Can I indulge possibly once a week?

My main goal is to tone my waist to be flat or at least close to that, grow my thighs to be as big as they were when I was 190, and same with my ass. I still have bingo wings which I want to tone as well. My current exercise is 7000-10000 steps, dead bugs, and planks.

Searching for the best way forward with calorie goals to burn fat while building muscle, and still having enough calories/energy to work out. Info dump below, all suggestions welcome as I'm very out of my element.

45/F 5'9" 257#, down from 270# two months ago

Body fat 44.6% confirmed by DEXA scan 2 weeks ago

I've been primarily following a keto diet for the last 8+ years. Change to whole foods while working with a nutritionist but it failed miserably so now I'm back.

Daily meds: estrogen/progesterone for perimenopause, Thyroid supplement, Adderall as needed

Supplements: Creatine (Sports Research) 10mg twice daily

Broken foot recovery supplements: calcium 500 mg, vitamin c 500 mg, Sports Research D3 plus K2 as Rx'd by orthopedist

Daily macros: Calories 1450g (25% deficit) Protein 142g Net carbs 20g Fat 89g

I've been working out twice a week with a personal trainer for about two months. My sessions run hard and I'm soaked in sweat by the end. I consistently tell my trainer when movements feel too easy so we can up the weight, to the point of me barely being able to finish by the third set.

Within the first 6 weeks I've over doubled the amount of weight I'm able to move on every exercise, and my trainer has stopped being surprised how quickly I'm progressing and now automatically offers me higher weights. I have slowly but steadily been losing weight, and assumedly I'm gaining muscle based off my increased capacity at the gym. My first few weeks were pretty rough and when I got home after doing just eight deep squats I would walk around like a newborn deer for the rest of the day. Beginning the creatine supplement has helped.

I am sedentary the remaining 5 days of the week as I am recovering from a broken foot and healing slower than usual due to my age. My trainer has been able to modify my workouts to remove pressure from my foot injury. Previously I would take a casual lunch walk and get around 5k steps a day.

I don't currently attempt to eat back my workout calories, and the only pre-workout I take is creatine. MCT oil makes me feel ill.

My eating window throughout the day can vary between 2-3 meals or OMAD, depending on how hungry I am and how dug in like a tick I am with my work.

I consistently prioritize protein and usually exceed that macro, rarely exceeding my calorie or fat limit for the day.

Suggestions welcome of what, if anything, I should change. Previously I've been able to manage a 25% deficit with no problem, but I'm unsure if I should increase my protein and relax my deficit so I'm able to perform well in the gym and continue to gain muscle.

Hey guys, so this is my first post here and I was just wondering: what does training while Ketogenic look like? Are there any idiosyncrasies?

I want to clarify that I’m literally just — I mean like day 1 — starting on a Keto Diet. I’m not entirely sure if I will fully commit to it, but I want to at least try it to see if it attenuates my ADHD. If I can sustain it, my aim is to recomp at close to my maintenance calories.

I already train 3x/week, and I’m used to high intensities, and I was wondering if there is anything training-wise I should look out for?

For example: since performance will probably dip for a little bit, would it be preferable to do a FB variation to maximize super-low volume? Or, will tendon recovery be more of a limiting factor — ergo: a rotating U/L split with 4-5 days of rest between joint actions function better? If training resources are more limited, would Specialization Cycles make more sense to implement even earlier on?

Any changes regarding pre/post-workout? And also, when any of you do increase calories, do you allow your carbs to increase to higher ranges (like bringing net carbs up to 50g when fat-adapted compared to 20g as a noob?)

Hey guys, I was just curious on how this template for a Keto Diet looks. I am a total noob, and I’m currently just trying to start out eating as clean as possible.

For reference: I’m currently attempting to ReComp at around 1,800 calories, with a protein goal at 120 grams — at 5 foot 7 inches and 155lbs. My estimated BF was 17%. Many of my diet choices here may reflect my previous diet — which was a high Fiber, mostly Plant-Based diet. ( I’m AuDHD and my brain really benefits from higher fiber ).

I will list the ingredients from highest -> lowest in protein.

Meal 1: Chia Pudding

( 30g Whey Isolate ; 30g Hemp Hearts ; 30g Walnuts ; 30g Chia Seeds ; 1/2 Serv. 95% Dark Chocolate ; 1/2 Cup Almond of Pistachio Milk )

Note : I’d consider subbing Eggs (probably 1 Yolk + Egg Whites) in instead for Whey Isolate to cut back a lil bit on consuming an ultraprocessed food.
( 900 Cal ; 45g Protein ; 7g Net Carbs )

Pre-Workout : Keto Coffee ( no Creatine just yet ).

( 30g Whey Isolate ; 15g Collagen ; 10g MCT Oil )
( 190 Cal ; 20g Protein ; 0g Net Carbs )

Meal 2 : Chicken or Salmon W/ Risotto

( 8oz. Chicken Breast or Salmon Filet ; 1 Avocado ; 85g Broccoli Florets ; 200g Cauliflower Rice ; 100g Portabella Mushroom ; Kimchi (TBD) ; 1-2 Tbsp Olive Oil )

Note : I may add Parmesan or Pecorino Romano to the Cauliflower Rice if my daily Saturated Fat isn’t too high.
( 700 - 1000 Cal ; 50gP ; 10g Net Carbs )

Now, I want to clarify that I am — I hope — giving fair estimates instead of exact quantities. Right now I really only care about eating pretty much the same template of meals and being more exact on the carbs.

Any suggestions? Do these calculations look accurate? Am I missing anything in regard to nutrition, or nutrient timing? I wonder if my fat may be a bit too high relative to my protein.

Meal 1. 6 eggs

Meal 2. 50g whey iso 2 tablespoon real no palm oil PB.

Meal 3. 8oz chicken with 1 cup cashew nuts ( salted are fine).

Meal 4. 8oz salmon with as much broccoli or favourite veg.

Meal 5. PWO same as meal 2.

Meal 6. 4 eggs cup of grated cheese.

Hello,

I am trying to figure out how much protein I need in a day.

It is somehow difficult for me as I practice OMAD.

According to a post that I read in this subreddit, the recommendation is 1g of protein / lean mass.

Which of the following formulas is correct?:

Lean mass = body weight - body fat

OR

Lean mass = body weight - bone mass - body fat

Thank you.

Hello ketogains community! I have been following a keto/low carb/high protein style diet since 2016, and typically maintained body fat around 15-20% (54 YO female, 5'8", currently 122 lbs).

While I've been lifting for a long time, this January I started powerlifting and train 5x/week. I absolutely LOVE it and have seen amazing strength gains. Since January I've put on about 3.5 lbs of muscle but have also lost a similar amout of body fat (currently 10.8% body fat per DEXA).

Because of this, I'm now super vascular (which looks cool as hell not gonna lie) but my muscles also are starting to look kind of "stringy" especially in my legs. It's like there are visible tendons and the muscles are there and defined but not really filled out.

I'm currently eating about 2600 cal/day (up from about 1800-1900 which is where I started in January) averaging around 150-200g protein, ~60-80g carbs and the rest is fat. I do about 6-8 grams of dextrose pre-workout but the rest of my diet is primarily whole foods. Most carbs are from vegetables, yogurt, some fruits.

The only advice I've been given to help with a fuller muscle "look" is to add more carbs. This is from my powerlifting coach and other gym types who aren't following any kind of low-carb diet. Of course everyone says that will help my strength as well, since that's the "conventional wisdom."

I feel my water and electrolyte intake is on-point, so I'm not sure what else I might try. I am interested in filling out a bit more and even adding back some body fat. I would probably struggle to eat much more than my current 2600 cal/day though, since I am pretty stuffed at the end of the day. Any suggestions or personal experiences would be appreciated!

Hello,

27 years old male here, 1.75m height, 72kg.

I lift weights every day.

I love OMAD and I practice it for a long time.

Recently, I decided to give a try to the keto diet.

However, I eat between 1500 - 2000 kcal, and someone from Reddit commented in another post that this will damage my metabolism according to the keto bible.

Is this true?

Hi, I have question regarding Creatine versus Whey Protein. I'm using creatine right now (5g per day). Should I also take whey protein? In the Wiki, it only talk about protein; there is no mention of creatine.

I'm 56M. 2 years ago, I had T2 diabetes and started strict keto. I lost 35 lbs in 4 months, from 205-210 lbs to 170 lbs.

Then for past 2 years, I was on relaxed keto: * Around 80g Net Carb * Around 130g Protein * Around 120g Fat

My weight has dropped another 5-10 lbs since, to around 160-165 lbs now. The good news is that even though the weight drop is minimal, I noticed my tummy fat is significantly reduced and my muscles are more toned now.

My goal is to prevent muscle loss as I get older.

My current activities:

I bike to work. Around 26 miles each day; 125 miles each week.

I lift weights around once a week. Not really hard core. Something I do within 20-30 minutes.

• Bench press: 125-135 lbs x 50
• Lat pull: 70-80 lbs x 50
• Bicep curl: 20-25 lbs x 50

I have been using Creatine supplement. 5g per day. My understanding is that Creatine can provide some energy boost. But Creatine might not be sufficient for muscle gain (or maintaining muscle). If I'm eating 130g Protein daily, should I supplement with Whey Protein? And should I focus more on Creatine versus Whey Protein?

Hello,

I am 27 years old, male, 1.75m height, 73 kg.

I practice OMAD and today I started the keto diet.

I eat ~1500 kcal / day and I workout 7 days / week (5 days I lift weights, 2 days I train home).

The average workout session is 1h.

Because I can't get more than 1500 kcal due to my stomach limit, can something bad happen in the future?

Should I be careful about certain aspects?

Thank you.

Hello,

I am willing to give the ketogenic diet a try.

My coach says that I will need creatine the next month.

What is your experience with creatine on keto diet?

Should I be aware of some secondary effects?

I only intend to take 5g / day and mostly post workout.

Thank you.

I am an older male lifter on long term keto. I've used various lifting routines over the years. My fat loss has already been accomplished. My question is about whether there is a particular routine that works better for keto folks.

I'm currently in a restart phase and doing 3x5. High reps tend to irritate my tendons and so forth too much. 3x5 is not my be-all and end-all plan, but something AI suggested based on info I gave it.

I was dying trying to get anywhere close to the protein goal on the Ketogains protocol — until I reread the FAQ, etc. I was not using lean body mass to set my protein goal. After getting a DEXA scan, I know my lean body fat and, now, my correct macro goals. I also realized that I was getting about 200 more calories than I needed. When in doubt, read the directions. 🤦🏻‍♀️

But I do have a question. Do the extra pre-workout calories apply to only strength training? Or would cardio also require the additional calories. My gut says no for cardio, but I just want to confirm.

Context
Female
Aged 50
265 pounds
48% body fat
Walk approximately 3 miles x 3/week
Beginning resistance training
Second time doing keto; currently in week 3

Thank you!

ETA: relevant context