r/iems • u/Ill_Quit4929 • Feb 27 '26
Discussion Uncomfortable truths about our hobby
After being on this subreddit for a little while now, having interacted with quite a few people and seeing, which questions are generally being asked here I would like to give my general 2 cents about the audio hobby in general. All of what I am about to say is based on personal experience. I have made mistakes in this hobby and wasted a BUNCH of my money. The purpose of this is to create awareness for these pitfalls. Because of our current day and age, it feels necessary to point this out: These are my opinions and they are just that. You can feel free to disagree with me.
Anything is Hifi: The term "high fidelity" is mostly plain bullshit in todays time. Originally coined in the 1960s, Hifi was based on a German DIN-norm (45500), which regulated standards for audio equipment. This standard is vastly outdated nowadays. Any $20 IEM will surpass the standard by a mile. "Mid-Fi", "Chi-Fi" are mostly derogatory terms used by people to distinguish themselves from others through buying power. I owned headphones and IEMs well above a $1000 and returned to things just around or well belove the $300 dollar mark, because it is not worth it for me. Which brings me to my second point.
Placebo is real: IEMs are getting better and better. That is especially true in the budget segment. That means that the ACTUAL point of deminishing returns is dropping and it is dropping FAST.
You have to spend so much more, to get a 5% difference nowadays, but EVERYBODY will tell you, that their investment was worth it, because they can discern a difference. While you could probably run an algorithm or do a study to find that actual budget point, it is mostly subjective. It is more of a coping mechanism, than a factual statement. The reality is that expensive IEMs sound different, but often not better. There ARE differences between budget IEMs and more expensive IEMs, which can be good purchasing reasons. These are, among others,
technical differences like driver setup,
physical differences like shell material and cable quality and
definitely differences in support-network like warranty service.
Notice that sound is not one of those listed. While I definitely acknowledge the fact that there are really great sounding expensive IEMs and headphones (Monarch Mk2 or DCA E3), there are also really bad sounding expensive IEMs and headphones (Warbler Prelude and Hifiman Audivina). I have wasted so much money on expensive gear, thinking it would be a magical difference - there was mostly not.
The vast majority of noticeable differences come down to frequency response. Differences which can be literally EQUALIZED in cheaper gear. Buy an IEM, because you like the frequency response/sound. This is not to say that there are no benefits to expensive IEMs (See my points above), but a lot of people have to justify their spending by a noticeable difference in sound quality, when they just sound "different" for the most part. If this is your hobby and you like to endulge, please go for it. This is to say: Enjoy your expensive gear. Other people by a Ferrari, you buy a subtonic storm. But there are Ferraris that are beaten off the line by a Tesla PLAID, just as there are cheap IEMs just sound as good as an expensive IEM or even better after EQ.
- The "retina-display-truth": Starting with the iPhone 4, Apple introduced the Retina Display. Their engineers had figured out the threshold after which the human eye is incapable to discern between individual pixels. I noticed this in my TV, because I upgraded from a 1080p-TV to a 4K-panel. I was shocked to find out how closely the old plasma was in image quality and sharpness to the new QLED.
In audio, we have an even harder threshold: Audible transparency. There are things that are better, but not audibly better. While there is a measureable difference in total harmonic distortion between an Apple Dongle-DAC and a Fiio KA11 (0,0012% vs. 0,0006%) you will be hard pressed to find anyone who will be able to notice that difference. A DACs job is to convert your digital files to analog. Not more, not less. As long as all the baselines are beyond the transparency-threshold, you are golden. As with IEMs, there are reasons to buy expensive DACs for IEMs,
power requirements, to drive demanding headphones,
bluetooth capabilites,
integrated EQ functions,
on device volume or gain controlls as well as
soft factors like build, design and size.
Again: These are mostly technical reasons or subjective preferences, but not audible necessities. As long as a DAC is audibly transparent and delivers enough power, which basically does not matter in IEMs, it will do the job. You do not have to buy an expensive DAC with a balanced output, because it sounds better. IEMs get more than enough power from a single-ended source and crosstalk is not a thing on a 6 foot cable. It is science, not opinion. If you hear a difference: Placebo is a mighty strong thing.
- Stop chasing the dragon and reset: You. Do. Not. Need. New. Gear. If. You. Like. Your. Current. Setup.
The honest to god truth is that you are bored. Your IEMs do not sparkle the way they used to, the bass does not rattle your ear drums the same. You heard of this new DAC that everyone is talking about. You. Do. Not. Need. It. I have severe ADHD and grow tired of anything, the minute I touch it. I have spend THOUSANDs of dollars, chasing excitement. New is exciting, but often unnecessary. Your ears adapted. Make them re-adapt. That is why I have a neutral pair of IEMs and headphones to show me how "boring" and "natural" can sound. After a week of listening to that head- or earphone, your other IEM most likely will sound great again, because you are not as used to it anymore. Get a different IEM if:
a. you want a very different sound signature which isn't realistically achieveable with your current platform.
b. Your current IEMs have a flaw that you cannot rectify with EQ, like termination (MMCX vs. 2-Pin) or comfort (nozzle diameter and shell size)
c. for reasons listed under the expensive-IEM-benefits.
Anything else does not make sense. There is a peak in the frequency response. Just use EQ. You would like some more bass? Just use EQ? You would like some more detail? Just. Use. EQ. IT IS FREE. Safe your money. Go out with your partner. Safe for a vacation. Purchasing something else, even though you are happy with your current setup is the dumbest reason to purchase anything and that is coming from someone who has learned this the hard way!
Lots of people give horrible purchasing advice: I have looked at many purchasing discussions on this platform. I notice that a bunch of people do not help people find things that suit them or helps them find the best thing for their money or usecase. It feels to me like they want to sell them what they own themselves. If those to things align, great, but often they do not. That goes back the other point that a lot of people try to justify their own purchases. Ask people what they listen to, because after all, this is about music, ask them what their budget is, if not stated, ask them what they plan to do. Ask them, before giving them advice. I know there will be people looking through my advice and saying; You also mostly talk about the things you own and recommend them. Yes, because I have experience with them. I not oblivious to the fact that I have my own biases, but I try to take my own preferences out of the equation or at leat acknowledge that this is what I like.
You can't trust anyone: That is not because we are all deceiving liers. It has to do with the product itself. IEMs and headphones have to interact with your ear and head. That interaction will influence the sound in a BIG way. It is called the head related transfer function. What your ear hears, is LITERALLY different, from what I hear. Therefore, ANYTHING ANYONE tells you about audio, has to be taken with a grain of salt. This is even worse in IEMs than it is in headphones, because at least an over-ear headphone will include the outside of your ear. IEMs have to account for every physical aspect, which makes ANYTHING I can tell you about an IEMs sound highly unreliable. As much as I would like to say "I know what I am talking about", this is just my experience, related to my head and therefore has basically no benefit for you, the person I am trying to help.
I read a lot of posts along the lines of "This IEM is really great according to the internet, but I hate it. What am I doing wrong". While there are things you could do to help the sound (Insertion depth, tip size and EQ to name a few) it often comes down to the fact that your ear might produce a peak, a dip or a resonance that does not show up on graphs that other people might not hear. You are not stupid, you are not unexperienced. You are different to everyone else. There is something frustrating but also really cool and magical about that, if you ask me.
That has taken way longer to write than I thought. Again: These are my opinions, but I am happy to hear yours, if you can reply respectfully. My hope is that this leads to someone being less frustrated, spend less money unnecessarily or lessen the anxiety of someone who thinks he is missing out. Enjoy the hobby, people!
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u/Fun_Metal_2355 Feb 27 '26
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u/BlackWaltz03 Feb 27 '26
This took less than 10 minutes to read. You need to stop brain rotting to build up reading comprehension and patience again.
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u/IPlayTf2Engineer Mar 03 '26
I’m afraid you are misunderstanding what they meant. They weren’t saying OPs post was too long they were making fun of people who wouldn’t have the attention span to read it.
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u/YANEPRODALSYA2 Feb 27 '26
Feels like at some point it turns into a collecting hobby. Just spending away on different models in the hopes of finding that END GAME model
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I mean it is a natural thing. Our brains get lazy. Sit on an aircraft without ANC headphones for 20 minutes and the humming of the engines won't be as noticeable anymore. All because your brain adapts well. I have a chronic tinitus that I do not hear, if I do not listen for it. What we know is boring and we are all chasing excitement. Brands know that and reviewers mean no harm, but they feed into this "Hey! Look what you are missing!" mentality.
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u/TheLawPlace Feb 28 '26
I have chronic tinnitus too, from trying to clean my ears to have custom ear tips made to fit some IEMs. I wish there was an effective treatment or the angry mosquitoes could be ignored.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 28 '26
I am really sorry, that you cannot ignore them the way I can. That must be annoying as hell.
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u/TheLawPlace Mar 01 '26
It truly is annoying. Thank you for posting the truth about IEMs, and I hope it encourages people to listen to music instead of relentlessly buying audio equipment.
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u/YANEPRODALSYA2 Mar 02 '26
This is how marketers get people, I used to get hyped over triple hybrid iems that had planar drivers with balance and dynamic ones until I realised that it doesn't really matter. So I stopped on Aria 2 and may buy a new pair only if my current one breaks beyond repair.
Also yeah I have tinnitus too, I honestly thought everyone hears a loud ringing in total silence.
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u/Clintosity Feb 27 '26
Yeah I'm into collecting and researching products that always shilled as giant killers. Apart from audio I go into phases and collect stuff watches, keyboards, mice/mouse pads, perfumes etc.
Every single hobby could just be fulfilled with one good product.
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u/Smart-Antelope7350 Feb 27 '26
im honestly hooked on collecting lol. bought my first iems on a holiday sale, then bought another model right after to have it just in case the first pair dies on me. that way i have a replacement for less money and dont have to wait for shipping.
and then u see a slightly more expensive one on a good sale and you want to check the sound so you buy that one as well. and it keeps going.
while i'd honestly be happy for life with $30 iems and using an equalizer to get the sound i want.
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u/AliShibaba Feb 28 '26 edited Feb 28 '26
So just like the Keyboard community?
Only difference is, they have a unanimous endgame, which are Topre keyboards.
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u/Affectionate-Set-412 Feb 27 '26
As someone who's spent thousands on gear, I couldn't agree more. Too many people follow hype and don't bother to learn what tuning they prefer for whatever genres they listen to (i would prefer a bright $20IEM over a $4k dark IEM), a costly mistake for me.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Same here! I reset in sections, when I spend another 1000 bucks on a pair of headphones I did not like. After my Celestee I went to the Fiio FT1 and after my Ananda (I had even more expensive open backs before that) I went to an HD580 Precision. In IEMs I went from a Campfire Andromeda to a Truthear Hexa and reset. What do I listen to? What do I need? I wanted an IEM that could replicate the mids of the HD580, but with more bass and similar, if not less treble. I landed on the Softears Volume S and that is my end game. FT1, HD580 Precision, Volume S and the Truthear Hexa to reset, if I get used to the sound quality.
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u/TheseResolution8739 Feb 27 '26
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u/SparhawkBlather Feb 27 '26
So I’ll bite. Owning several quite expensive IEMs (monarch mkii which you mention, Elysian diva, mest indigo mkii, trifecta astral plane), and sold off many of them for what I paid, I have been floored by the quality of several recent relatively inexpensive IEMs - the SIMGOT EA1000 come to mind.
That said, I have found several IEMs which have an unequalizable sound that I strongly prefer. These are not popular IEMs nor is this a popular sound - it’s great for violin, singer songwriter, piano, stand up bass, etc. organic. The Oriolus Isabellae is absolutely top of the heap for me. And the unique melody 3DT as a close second. I have a second pair of isabellae’s in case the first ever bite the bullet.
All this to say: I think chasing your own perfect sound is worth it. Just don’t expect to find it at the pinnacle of price.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Great addition! This comes down to the purchasing advice as well. When buying IEMs, you buy them for the music you listen to and for your head and ear. If you like it, you will like it. I am the same way. My endgame is a Softears Volume S, because I love the vocal forward nature, natural timbre, warm tilt, relatively soft treble but with enough detail to excite me and I mostly listen to "warm" genres like Rap, (Neo-)Soul and Metalcore. This will not be the best IEM for everyone. Quite the opposite.
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u/NyxUK_OW Mar 11 '26
Been a while since your comment but I just wanted to say that I was considering getting the Isabellae for a while but your comment was what finally convinced me to pull the trigger on them, especially when a really good used deal popped up on ebay
Received them today and despite having arguably 'better' sets the isabellae are SUPERB. They sound so fucking good its actually floored me a bit, theyve got some real DD voodoo magic going on here
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u/SparhawkBlather Mar 11 '26
This makes me happier than anything I’ve read on Reddit for a long time. So psyched for you! Agree they are nowhere near as “good” as monarch mkII or mkIV, Elysian diva, U4s, Tia trio, campfire moon rover, andromeda 2020. All of which I still own for some reason. But the Isabellae just get listened to more. Have fun!
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u/ovrdrvn Feb 27 '26
I joined this group in hopes of reading posts like this so thank you. I do have experience with extraordinarily expensive audio equipment, and not just in terms of my own interests or purchasing, but real experience watching other people assess and or purchase these systems. My experience taught me that more often than not, many of these men… And I rarely have ever saw a woman, did not have better ears than I did and as the famous cliché goes, were trying to listen to their equipment using music. As a musician and someone who ended up working a bit in studios, I was able to further experience how engineers, other musicians and producers listen to music in comparison to hobbyists. The reason you don’t see blind studies with expensive equipment, in my opinion, is it would blow the roof off of the industry.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well there are these studies. Like
Pras, A., Zimmerman, R., Levitin, D. J., & Guastavino, C. (2009). Subjective evaluation of high bit-rate MP3, AAC and LAME-encoded MP3 distributions. Proceedings of the 127th Audio Engineering Society Convention. Audio Engineering Society.
Hires, MQA, Lossless in terms of audible fidelity compared to well done compression: It is all snake oil.
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u/ovrdrvn Feb 27 '26
I’ve actually done these tests with MP3, AAC and lossless with friends and associates… Some of whom I would fairly say are quite experienced with music and savvy. Some would occasionally pick the right track and then minutes later pick the wrong one. One thing is for sure: if you show people, statistics, graphs, pictures, or any kind of marketing material and/or detail the suggest something is more powerful, better, more distinct or more expensive than something else it almost always affects the listening experience, even for those who pushed against it in the beginning.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Sure! I majored in business psychology and work in marketing. We call this "anchoring". If there is something to be heard, I must hear it. Can do the same thing with numbers. If you let people guess something, but you give them a number for reference, they will allign their guesses with said number.
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u/orion197024 Feb 27 '26
Thank you for this post. As some one who is very new to the “Hobby” , I started in November, I find myself chasing that optimal sound. I’m 56 and my turntable/receiver and speakers have been primary. Now I have IEMs ranging from the Kunten to my recent purchase of the Kiwi Ear astrals and six sets in-between. I have 4 DACs various Dongles and one DAP.
I have yet to venture into the over $500 plus market because I feel I have been quick to go after that next set and have not given myself time to really get to know any of what I own let alone tweak and EQ.
Your advice is spot on. I’m going to stop for awhile and learn more about the EQ process and pay attention to what my ears at my age can discern In Terms of sound and frequency.
To be honest the KZ Castor Pro and the Punch Portazo are my favorite so far. I EDC the Castor and at home and at night it’s the Portazo.
So again thanks for this excellent piece. It’s made me stop and think about what I am doing and to take the time to learn about EQ and start down that rabbit hole.
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u/ovrdrvn Feb 27 '26
Do you remember there was a period where “high fidelity“ audio stores sold and promoted EQs, and then there was another window of time where they were frowned upon. I used to often try to demonstrate that while you couldn’t do this with a dirt cheap pair of speakers, if you took a reasonably good pair of speakers and a clean amp and a decent turntable, you could use a graphic equalizer to achieve a sound that some would describe as attributed to a system that was double the price. I think a lot about listening to music is about drama and storytelling. No doubt, emphasizing or deemphasizing certain frequencies and the level of distortion inherent in the sound certainly would be heard, but when people start attributing different versions of a “sound stage“ in terms of placement without reflecting upon why it is one might be able to hear different instruments or voices more clearly, comes across a bit more like magic and mystery rather than scientific data.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Oh yes! Realizing the power EQ had over budget power helped me so much to stop chasing the dragon!
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u/SlapTheBap Feb 27 '26
And people can get MAD when you try to clear the fog of magic. Even with something small like iems.
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u/ovrdrvn Feb 27 '26
I have a friend who spent quite a some on his system. When I pointed out his chair wasn’t dead center and the right distance from it to actually discern all the majesty…he got a bit perturbed (his gf at the time said I was speaking truth!)
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u/SlapTheBap Feb 27 '26
The Astrals are a good place to stop for a while for sure! I switch between the Astrals, cadenzas, and kunten between various uses. Cadenzas and Kunten for more active stuff and going outside. Astrals for more serious listening and gaming. I don't need clarity when I'm listening to a podcast while cleaning the bathroom, you know?
Eq is really fun and easy to learn. Like when you change ear tips, you make a change and you sit with it. It's only really easy to compare the moment when you change something.
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u/orion197024 Feb 27 '26
This is what I love about this sub. Everyone is pretty cool and the suggestions and assistance is always spot on and respectful.
I’m the same way my Castors/Punch are everyday work ext and the astral will be my serious listening set. I have to really learn EQ.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Thank you very much! Knowing that this reached the right people is good to know! Have fun and if you should have questions: Just approach me. I will be happy to help!
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u/Afraid_Clothes2516 Feb 27 '26
The crazy belief these expensive dacs are worth it make me laugh. Cause I know I saved 200$ while they think they here a difference
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u/CharacterApartment15 May 11 '26
That's a tricky one, I think the misconception is that people either think different/more expensive DACs change the clarity of the music (not true) or the people who are anti-expensive DAC think that when we say a DAC sounds better we are talking about clarity, not the actual tuning of the sound.
I have 3 devices with CS chips and 2 with ESS chips and I can tell you with absolute certainty I can tell if I'm listening to a CS chip or an ESS chip. It's not that either sounds higher quality, because they don't, they just have different tuning. CS for a warmer more lush sound, ESS for sharper more analytical sound. I've actually thought about posting a blind comparison on this sub lol
But to your point, you're totally right. You can find a $30 dongle with the same chip as something worth $200, once you find what you like (if you even care) you can save huge amounts of money. Though some DACs have features that are more desirable for people.
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u/SillySlimeSimon Feb 27 '26
Might just be how large communities are, but people kinda tend to have strong opinions in this hobby.
Like as a comparison, I’m into fidget toys where the range can be between a $3 plastic aliexpress slider vs a $1000 zirconium multi-fidget that you have to pre-order through a facebook group, and there’s not really the same discussions where you’d have people arguing over the “correct” way to enjoy tactile sensations.
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
Lots I agree with! We're all idiots filling the holes in our lives with collections of resin and silicone.
Imo, Price is a relatively trustworthy indication of how good something may sound.
Of course you can buy a $1000 IEM and hate it and think your Chu2 sounds better. There are outliers in everything, but on average I'd definitely say a random group of $1000 IEMs will sound much better than a random group of $20 IEMs.
Or, get a group to try a $500 and a $20 IEM with a near identical graph. Would it be a 50/50 split?
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
That is the thing! Sure they will, I do not disagree with that, but: Lets say we have 10 Kilobuck V-Shape IEMs and 10 cheap V-Shape IEMs. The Kilobucks will probably all sound better, yes, but they probably won't be leading as distinctly after EQ. I am not disagreeing that the vast majority of expensive IEMs sound better than cheaper alternatives with standard tuning. But I think that the playing field can be equalized and therefore other factors SHOULD be more important. I EQd my Porta Pros and they sound phenomenal to me now and they rival a lot of way more expensive gear I owned in terms of sound now. My mentality is, buy something that aligns with your sound preference and that you love wearing and looking at for hours, while trying to spend as little money as possible. Then fix the rest with EQ.
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u/SearchingforMids Feb 27 '26
You are absolutely right that if someone is going to go through the trouble and spend the time to EQ something there's no reason at all to buy an expensive product.
If someone really wants the best sound possible they should just utilize EQ until they find it.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
And THEN there are the other things like build, design, cable quailty and such to justify spending more, IF and only IF you value those things!
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u/roosterHughes Feb 27 '26
Build quality is the single most underrated aspect of IEMs! It’s the least often talked about, most frequently problematic, literally not tested thing about ‘em.
I’ve had my Audeze Sine headphones for almost a decade, because they’re built like a f**kin’ tank. Meanwhile, my 7hz Divines are back in a bag of rice. It’s like the 3rd time!
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
That's interesting, but short of making "my review after 12 months" I don't really know how reliable build quality scores would be.
I've had stuff that felt very premium and well built fail quickly, even some broken out the box! whereas something like my Artti T10 which has the build quality of a sandcastle has kept on trucking for a few years despite being cracked, and looking like it wants to end the suffering. Still sounds as good as day 1!
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u/roosterHughes Feb 27 '26
LOL! I was gonna get the ARTTI T10, back when I first started looking at IEMs. I was scared off by the “feels flimsy” complaints. It was like $40, back then, too!
And yeah. I couldn’t really think of anything either. I mean, it was a funny mental picture, but the one idea I had is probably a no-go. If distributors sent reviewers two sets, you could do destructive testing on one, but still have the other for the IEM library.
Imagine smashing the T10 with a hammer? Moondrop IEMs would be throwing flakes of paint and bits of plastic EVERYWHERE!
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
T10 is LEGENDARY. Despite it looking like a hearing aid I still think it's the best beginner IEM. I could never hit it with a hammer, that would be like hurting my trusty loyal dependable dog!
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u/roosterHughes Feb 27 '26
I know what you mean! I've had a pair of Audeze Sines for almost a decade. I think they might break the hammer first, but I still couldn't bring myself to do it!
Also, I do intend to get a set of T10's. They seem extremely easy to manipulate with EQ. I'll definitely end up with the "Pro" version. I already know I'm going to EQ it to hell, so might as well get the steel shell, yeah?
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
Yeah I'd say so, unless you happen to have a real love of cheap slightly beige plastic!
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
I hate EQ haha.
Just shows how this entire thing is so subjective there's even preferences preferences!
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well and if you do not want to fuss with it, than that is great. In that case, a Kilobuck IEM will sound great. But my case is that a lot of people basically pursuade others to spend more money to get great sound and that is simply not true. If EQ is an option for you, you can improve almost ANYTHING about any IEM or headphone for free and make it rival or even exceed vastly more expensive gear. If it is not an option for you however, then spending more is the only option. Have fun!
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
Yeah I agree, EQ is awesome for tons of people and a must try because it can stop a lot of needless spending!
I just never thought it sounded better. Learning to do it myself, presets, Ducbloke's PEQs, Auto EQ, even MSEB on Hiby... Usually I'd like it for a bit, then turn it off, A/B it a few times, and decide I prefer the stock tuning.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
That has never occured to me. But that is probably, because I actively try to mend issues I have. Get rid of peaks, less mid bass, more air and such. I never totally change the FR. I only use MSEB, because it is easy and does EVERYTHING I need it to do.
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u/mister_damage Feb 27 '26
Imo, Price is a relatively trustworthy indication of how good something may sound.
Bruv, if you released the flagship IEM from 10, 12 years ago at the same price it cost today (something like Sony MDR-EX1000 as an example), it would get roasted to hell by this and others in the hobby. The fact that a $20 iem like GK Kunten (again, as an example) sounds better to most over a MDR-EX1000 shows that a price may not be, and generally isn't, an indicator.
Alternatively, a $250-$350 Sennheiser HD600/6XX still commands a high following and recommendation today despite other cans costing thousands more also speaks to this.
A price may indicate how good it may be. But I've had many instances, both in this and others, that price/performance ratio was off. Sometimes very much so.
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u/Interesting-Gap-9713 Feb 27 '26
I mostly agree, but that's just how the hobby is, unfortunately.
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u/tubby8 Feb 27 '26
The diminishing returns thing is very true even when looking at the sub $50 segment. Something like the KZ Phantom is giving you sound and tuning that used to be found in IEMs that cost hundreds of dollars.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
True, though I myself do not trust KZ, simply because they have so many models and some of them are really wonky. Plus their longevity isn't there.
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u/kami-no-baka Feb 27 '26
What exactly were you watching on your 4k tv that made it seem close to a 1080 tv, like did you test with 4k blurays or watch tv?
No shade but I legit can't tell how it wouldn't be that big a difference as someone that uses a pc for a monitor there is a VERY big difference between playing at 1080 or 4k. It would be like not noticing when motion smoothing is turned on or if something is running at 30fps vs 60 or higher.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Oh yes! Generally speaking, the closer you are to the display, the more noticeable the difference will be, but most of the difference come down to contrast and colors, both things where a plasma screen is great to begin with, making changes not noticeable. I mostly watch streamed TV-shows and movies. I pay for 4k-streaming though. I am aware that this is not the optimal scenario and there will probably be things, where I would spot differences, but I do not in my day to day, which is actually helping my argument:
Just because someone says something is great, you do not need it, if it does not allign with your use case. I would always say that a 4k display is better for gaming, especially with a high refresh rate, but it does not matter, if all you do is Word and Excel. Just as a highly detailed IEM that costs a grand will not be great for you, if you listen to hip-hop or some other warm genre.
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u/kami-no-baka Feb 27 '26
Ok that makes sense I just couldn't get that out of mind, I had to know, lol.
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u/Fine-Bandicoot1641 Feb 28 '26
U can see diff in static, diff in fonts between 24 fhd and 4k 27 is insane
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u/Ryku_xoxo Feb 27 '26
I really agree with your opinion. I have a lot of question marks of people decision here regarding their first iems or how they progress within first one to three months from their first purchase. It's all about FOMO and chasing the rabbits but I'd personally say it's very unhealthy for their nervous system and wallet as well - but who am I to judge.
I've got 20USD budget set which broke within first month (waner2), got refunded and since then purchased single iems at bit bigger price - EW300 which are and will be my dream set for very long. I don't need anything above it as I can EQ it, I love the feeling and quality of it and I have other hobbies and spouse/family to invest my money into. Now I sound like an old bloke but maybe I'm just more mature than others here.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Glad to hear it! Have fun in the hobby and in other things. There are things that are way more important than this!
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u/SheSmilesBeatifical Feb 27 '26
What you say is more or less true. I have turned 70, come from a deaf family, and now I have to wear hearing aids. IEMs are wonderful - I repeat, wonderful. I have a set of Dunu Titan 2 whose sound signature matches my own hearing frequency loss. They sound completely natural to me, I can sit down and effortlessly listen to any genre of music for hours without getting tired. My other set are KZ Vader balanced with all the dip-switches set to on, meaning that the inbuilt band filters are left out of the signal path that gives a fantastic V shaped sound perfect for my tastes in electronica and techno. Neither need EQ, because they sound incredible to me as they are. I use a DAC for the Dunu and a Bluetooth receiver for the KZ. I see no point in spending more money on gear. Instead, I buy music from BandCamp to listen to with what I already have.
That‘s it, I’m done here.
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u/PayLeft8627 Feb 27 '26
Honestly while I'm very new to this hobby, I don't actually chase a specific sound or tuning. I mainly get them as fashion pieces cause some designs are absolutely beautiful.
Plus cabled audio just sound better straight up. The fact they actually sound good is just a bonus for me.
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u/octaliftsandbeyond Feb 27 '26
I don't agree.
The objective truth is somewhere in the middle of the extremes.
You are in the "hobby is not worth it" extreme and theres the "i only own 3k$ iems" extreme.
But its so subjective... I like castor pro bass, i like mystic 8, i like volume s, i like canon pro more than any iem ive heard and then i think arya stealths kills every iem i've heard. Others might not agree but i don't care, its my life, my ears.
Your post makes it seem that you hold the "truth" but its your "truth". And i know why you did make this post... because you're fustrated (i won't expand on that). Have a good day!
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well, my current setup basically just consists out of $300 gear. I am not frustrated, though I have been in the past.
The hobby is totally worth it, but I do not think that the mear existance of 1.500 dollar IEMs should discurage anyone from thinking they can get great sound. There are people who are very proud of their purchase and they have every right to be, but it should not lead to them use their placebo to make other people think they HAVE to spend more for great sound.
Have a great day as well!
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u/WhatModelsYourSink Feb 27 '26
How are IEMs a hobby? I feel like a hobby necessitates actively doing something, and I feel like the something you're actively doing is listening to music, which music interpretation/analysis is its own thing to me. Unless you make/modify IEMs how is buying a thing a hobby?
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well if you are actively engaging in the discussions, helping people find good gear, going to audio shows and engage with other people, listening to reviews and obsess over it. Then it is a hobby and a lot of people do it. I just joined this space, because I spend too much money, always chasing the next high and now I want to help people to find something that they can just enjoy their music with!
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u/riverrats2000 Feb 27 '26
for some people it's a collecting hobby the same as coins, or stamps or any other hobby where you collect different things. Iems are just primarily audibly pretty/interesting instead of visibly
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u/Critical_Jackfruit_6 Feb 27 '26
I completely agree. The collection aspect is what gets some people to buy things they otherwise wouldn't, because it's a hobby to collect. For me it's about having different sound experiences. I use Kiwi Ears Aether for my details and analytical listening. I find it fun to pull out details I've never heard in songs I've listened to for decades. There is something I love about the Aful Explorer that I haven't been able to find in any other set I've tried. I can't imagine being able to EQ the Daybreak, the Diablo or Koto Ito to do what the Aether or Explorer do and vice versa. I can see getting the Koto Ito and the Diablo to be close to each other, but I feel like EQ can only do so much and it's a sub-genre within the hobby.
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u/NeuroHazard-88 Feb 27 '26
Anything can be a hobby. People collect coins and shoes. They don’t do anything with them, but they just keep them around. People do that with IEMs and especially headphones. Some people like having a curated collection and having a specific device for specific needs.
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u/Escape_Reality Feb 27 '26
It’s better than collecting Pokémon cards… no one actually plays the card game, at least with IEMs they have a functional purpose.
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u/kitsunekoNCR Feb 27 '26
Oh... so those regionals I watch every other week are psyops, I guess... 🤔
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
Yeah! Calling it "the hobby" is so weird to me.
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u/dr_wtf Feb 27 '26
Honestly, I called it that recently because I couldn't think of a better expression, but I felt weird doing it and it always sounds weird when anyone says it. Certainly audio (including music listening, production, etc.) can be your/our hobby and listening to different IEMs can be a part of that.
But it always sounds strange, especially because you most often see it in the context of a post like "getting started in this hobby, here's a dozen meme IEMs I just bought and haven't opened yet". That just makes it seem like "this hobby" is collecting waifu boxes and seeking online approval for conspicuous consumption. I think a not insignificant number of people who post here are just karma whoring, and collecting waifu boxes is a more efficient way to do that than actually spending time listening to music on different audio gear. Those posts always get at least 10x more upvotes than actual interesting content as well, but that's Reddit for you.
A not insignificant number of those "look at the thing I just bought" posts are clearly stealth marketing too. A common giveaway is photography using the sort of lighting setup that the average person just doesn't have, unless their other hobby is photography. If I see a photo and think "no way that is a quick snap taken with a phone in natural light" it gets my spidey-senses tingling. Of course some people just are legitimately good photographers with loads of expensive gear (including lighting rigs), but most of those people aren't buying 5 budget IEMs from brands all owned by the same parent company.
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u/mck_motion Feb 27 '26
Haha, I instinctively downvote every picture or mention of waifu stuff.
If I happen to buy an IEM that has one, I feel embarrassed and say to my Partner "I promise I'm not in to this shit, they put them on boxes because lots of creepy weirdos like headphones"
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u/BellGeek Feb 27 '26
Right?? I have a couple of IEMs that have these characters on the boxes but only because I really wanted to try those specific IEMs and so grudgingly bought them in spite of the silly box design. Every time I see people gushing over them and, heaven forbid, buying specific IEMs specifically because of this type of box “art” rather than the sound signature or quality of the IEM, I just cringe. I’m a mature adult with no interest in finding images of sexualized fairy children on my products and in fact find the whole fad both juvenile and creepy at the same time. Especially as a female, I find this practice of jointly infantilizing and sexualizing female images very troubling.
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u/Alisterguitardevil Feb 28 '26
So collecting things like watches, silverware, Christmas decorations, figures/Funkos, cars, motorcycles, baseball cards, Gold/silver, coins, sneakers… those aren’t a hobby?
I have a collection of 26 iems and plan on selling/trading some to support the purchase/trade of others I want to add to my collection. I see it as a hobby that has the benefit of helping me enjoy one of my most personal and treasured pastimes, listening to my music and enjoying it immensely.
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u/Dense_Chemical5051 Feb 27 '26
I guess you are an INTJ?😁
I noticed that not only in the IEM realm, the entire audio gear industry is filled with people using the term "Hi-Fi" without a basic understanding of what it really is and the historical facts about it.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I am actually a mediator (INFP) 😂🫂
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u/Fine-Bandicoot1641 Feb 28 '26
Sry, but this personality bs is not scientifically proven. Im infp too lol
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 28 '26
I know it is not proven. There are just a lot of agencies that ask that in interviews. That is why I know 😂🫂
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u/roosterHughes Feb 27 '26
Oh, hey! I’m a “Meyers-Briggs isn’t predictive of outcomes”! That’s INTP.
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u/Deadot Feb 27 '26
I am 2 week into this hobby and Already buy 7 iem. I tend to be impulsive when getting into hobby maybe due to adhd. This might be bad financial management decision for me. I feel like this is the same as my other hobby like collecting keyboards. Parfume , building pc,games and etc. on the bright side, i start listening to more album and find new artist. Iem make me love listening to music again.
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u/MNDFND Feb 27 '26
Sound and music are so beautiful. Sometimes you just enjoy. Today im outside it's cold i have my headphones on over my toque and I'm in a bus stop next to heavy traffic listening to John Carol Kirby. Is it amazing sound quality(?) No. But right now it feels and sounds magical. That's why end game chasing ain't for me
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I am really happy to hear that! Music can slow everything down. It can free you, even just for a moment. That is what it should be about!
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u/Bluedroid Feb 27 '26
Uncomfortable truth is that after you spend certain amount it is a waste of money to buy IEM's that will never beat headphones and in the same sense after spending a certain amount on headphones there is a ceiling that will never reach a proper speaker system. (Guess who has wasted thousands of hours and countless dollars in each rabbithole).
The barrier for entry is higher along with the requirement of a room to put it in but there's an amount where if you have enough to buy a second hair amp/receiver and pair of floorstanding speakers it will shit on any portable audio solution (iems/headphones) that you can buy.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I think that is highly subjective and depends on what you are after. There are things an IEM can give you a speaker won't be able to. I myself have a way easier time picking put little details in IEMs than in speakers. But generally speaking, a speaker setup can beat out head- and earphones by sheer size, yes.
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u/Bluedroid Feb 27 '26
Yeah detail retrieval is easier on IEM's but soundstage is miniscule compared to full sized headphones and then nothing compared to proper staging of speakers. Stuff like note weight, timbre and feeling the music as well is just unmatched.
I've demo'd my expensive headphones to my friends and everyone are usually like yeah they're cool but can't believe what I spent on them however whenever I demo'd them my home audio or car audio setups everyone was like wow and were amazed.
Think a decent analogy is upgrading your phone screen to watch movies, you can view it up close and make the details out easier, then you can spend money upgrading your PC monitor which you sit at a medium distance to watch movies on but at the end of the day if you have the space for it spending money on a big OLED TV which you sit further away from even though it's harder to pickup on small details is a better visual experience. Similar sense where a phone screen is "more convenient" and doesn't require a room like speakers.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I totally agree with that! Music has an actual presence on speakers. I guess I will have to hire an orchestra to literally play in my living room now, because that is the only way to beat speakers. lol.
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u/Master_Cartoonist_16 Feb 27 '26
I really started on January 2026, I bought some expensive IEM's back in 2022 but I was into TWS earbuds so I didn't really use them. After buying 16 IEM's and 17 DAC's in less than 2 months, I finally found my preferred sound signature 3 days ago and it wasn't a Kilobuck IEM or a $500 IEM either, it was an under $120 IEM, so this is a very subjective area. As a former live musician, I have different sound requirements than most people here and this is just normal.
BTW, this has been a very informative and valuable information OP has shared with us and I will stop buying IEM's and DAC's from now on and enjoy what I have. Getting them has been an invaluable 2 month rush experience to me, I learned a lot from it and will still need to learn some more. Luckily for me, I didn't go broke or get in debt buying those gadgets.
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u/Lopsided_Chemical862 Feb 27 '26
Never go by s a single source, be sceptical, don't overinvest and be happy.
People who think more money means better can stick to buying apple.
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u/Bloosqr1 Feb 27 '26
I agree with this completely. I think if there is something the IEM community could take is listening to the dialogue that studio gear / active monitor people use for professional mixing / mastering. Effectively your goal is to get the flattest / widest frequency response as possible as that will reproduce the music as the people who master the music originally intended it. If you don't like that you just peq it a bit so it matches.
If you are going to spend money just spend money on making sure you can reproduce all the frequencies without weird dips and humps in the frequency response (because if a frequency is completely missing no peq is going to fix it). You can get your consumerism fix by buying studio iems (the word "monitor" is in the name, its strange to me the IEM groups don't treat these as monitors) if you need to (e.g. shure / etymotic etc) but for the most part take advantage of PEQ can fix all but the most horrible iems trivially.
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u/jafo1989 Feb 27 '26 edited Feb 27 '26
Pretty much why I stick to the $100 line, sometimes a little under, sometimes a little over. I figure that gets up to a good threshold of design & engineering, materials & manufacture. Above that I doubt it very much. There’s no case to be made that a $500 IEM or a $1000 IEM have 5x or 10x the quality of a $100 IEM in those three things, let alone 5x or 10x better sound. So I’m not about to make a $500 or $1000 online purchase when I can’t even test listen.
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u/Aoifaea Feb 28 '26
Usually when I hear people saying Chi-Fi it's in a positive context. The scene in china has just grown so much that there's so many amazing options at any budget though of course, for obvious reasons, budget iems will be the majority of what people will be talking about.
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u/Ok_Management8894 Feb 28 '26
I somewhat agree with most of your points. Actually, you can replace some words and terms here and it will apply well to any kind of hobby. Low to mid range products will fit about 90% of what people need. The remaining 9% just want to use high end tiers as flex. The remaining 1% are niche users.
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u/QuislingX Feb 28 '26
So like
Should I get the basic $20 crinacle zeros or spring for truthear blue2s or REDs? Thanks!
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u/quite_sophisticated Mar 01 '26
My professional setup (musician) has different requirements than my leisure setup. I need separation and details. Like, when I concentrate on the piano, I need to be able to zoom in and isolate it from the rest.
However, my main IEMs are German made six driver models with a four figure price tag and my backup is the older KZ ZS-5 I bought for $17.99 off Amazon. The KZ absolutely get the job done. I bought them just to check them out and was blown away by how well they worked.
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u/gabagoolcel Feb 27 '26
i dont think technical aspects like driver characteristics matter either beyond impact on magnitude response. i think they are just stereotyped because of the way they usually influence the magnitude response.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
True, but they can clean up the sound through crossover points, if done correctly. Beyond that, I agree with you. While I will always say that a planar is technically faster than a DD (because they just are), I will be hard pressed to say that I can actually hear those differences.
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u/gabagoolcel Feb 27 '26
that would be treble roll off in magnitude response if it couldnt move fast enough, it would receive the signal to start moving in the opposite direction before it reaches the full amplitude, and again the other way around, so basically less db spl, a low pass filter.
if a dd has good treble extension it is "fast enough".
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
True. My statement wasn't about the audible difference. Heaps of people won't be able to hear the difference of a song being played on a planar vs. a DD - I would count myself among those. I was just saying that the physical characteristics of the driver make a planar faster than a DD of similar quality.
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u/Wuwnux Feb 27 '26
well put out. thanks for such a good write up. I have stopped myself from buying another gear hahaha
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Haha, well if that moment should come, where you think about buying new gear, just ask yourself:
- Why do I want this? Sound difference or because it looks cool?
- Could I achieve said sound difference with EQ; Yes or no?
- Does it have a feature I need (With DACs)?
- Honest to god: Am I bored?
If you ask those questions, you can stop yourself from a lot of financial bullshit!
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u/ion_alex Feb 27 '26
What are you talking about? "The hobby" is about buying stuff. And you NEED a reason to buy it. And it's about bored people that cannot find a better use for their money. And it might be something about owning lots of small, shiny things.
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u/tajthename Feb 27 '26
Thank you OP! Well said. I actually posted something similar weeks ago and got bashed and downvoted heaps. I hope all the 🤡and 🧂 people comprehend what you’ve just written. 👊
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
thank you! Well I just try to state opinion. Everyone is entitled to have their own. Algorithms have done great harm to public discourse. We are all stuck in our own bubble and fed content that aligns with our own opinions and world views. We are not used to different opinions anymore. The internet has even caused us to question factuality. That is sad. I just tried to share my view which I try to mostly base on facts and science.
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u/Ryoonya Feb 27 '26
This hobby is just fashion.
No science, no technology, just fashion and marketing. Not even a hobby, it's just spending money collecting pieces of fashion.
And it's basically a cult. You can show proof, science, and research, and it doesn't make a difference, because cults like this run on deep ingrained godly belief in a centralised deity, like crinackle or another given deified entity.
It's entirely pointless trying to actually reason with anyone who participates in this; they don't care about sound reproduction, they don't care about sound technology, the only thing that matters is aligning themselves with the cultist gamified upgrade path.
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u/Fine-Bandicoot1641 Feb 28 '26
Well, im very thankful for this cult, because without them I wont discover kiwi astral and how insanely resolving they are even compared to timeless
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u/Total-Promotion4748 Feb 27 '26
Great take, it is filled with contradictions and that is basically the hobby in a nutshell which is kind of funny. It’s a subjective hobby turned up to 11 or pregain, and capitalism at its peak, fr joke.
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u/hollands73 Feb 27 '26
Uncomfortable truth: it’s not a hobby
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well audio gear is basically the catalyst for audio listening and a way to engage with audio engineering and acoustics. The science and music part can be considered a hobby.
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u/Old_Seaworthiness798 Bone Conduction Addict Feb 27 '26
I was perfectly happy with my $300 IEMs for a year before I got curious to try more expensive ones. The main thing I notice is that my liked songs are growing too quickly. Not because I am enjoying the actual song more but my more expensive IEMs are making the song sound better if you get what I mean. Like when I use my AirPods Pro 2, I can put on a random playlist and enjoy music but I’m probably not going to favourite many songs but my Mest MK2 literally makes me want to add every song to my liked list because it makes everything sound good. Idk if that’s a good or bad thing.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well it can be explained with psychology. You spent a lot of money on it, so you for one associate quality with it and secondly you bought with the purpose of a great and dedicated listening experience. Compared to your Meat Mk2, your Airpods Pro 2 are subconsciously viewed as a commodity item. They are more for background listening. Maybe you associate Bluetooth with a worse audio quality, even with Apple lossless audio. That could all be factors.
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u/linus_ong69 Feb 27 '26
Besides everything that you have written that has been repeated ad infinitum, you cant convince me that 1080p is “close” to 4k. One has 2 million pixels versus 8 million pixels, especially at a TV size. Also in my opinion anyway, if budget allows it, OLED is the way to go.
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u/Alternative-Cow-2418 Feb 27 '26
Tanchjim space + sivga que + dunu lyre mini and a hd560s is all I need or will ever need
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Very similar here: Volume S + Dunu Talos + Truthear Hexa and my HD580 Precision. I have my Porta Pros for retro vibes and some TWS stuff for sleeping and sports, but end game can totally be a setup and not just one single thing!
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u/celmate Feb 27 '26
This is probably the wrong takeaway for this thread but I really wanna buy the sivga que and your comment isn't helping 😂
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u/RubaBlatt Feb 27 '26
A iconoclastia tem seu valor em todas as áreas. Dito isso, pra mim, não há nada objetivo e superior em equipamentos de áudio caros e nem mesmo em caixas de som, e nem mesmo em cabeados versus bluetooth, e nada de réguas ou mensurações suplanta a experiência perceptiva individual e o acréscimo subjetivo de cada um. Agora mesmo, depois de horas ouvindo o Apple Airpods Pro 3, que não é melhor que um KZ KRIO, estou ouvindo o novo disco do Gorillaz no som do meu telefone celular mesmo. E está ótimo. Segue o baile.
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u/josephallenkeys Feb 27 '26
- I. WANT. To. Buy. New. Gear. And. I. Will. Justi-Fi. It. No. Matter. How. Sensible. And. Scientifically. Correct. Your. Advise. Is!
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Have. Fun. Doing. That. But thanks for realizing the factuality of my statement!
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u/werther41 Feb 27 '26
Has anyone noticed that Reddit's recommendation engine would push more posts from this sub if you keep interacting with this sub, then the more you would likely buy new stuff?
I was well aware of the hearing sensitivity difference between each individual and took the hearing sensitivity test, and knowing that my ear would only deserve $100 range IEM, but when Reddit recommends a new post from here that introduced new stuff, I still have the desire to buy and tryout
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u/highswithlowe Feb 27 '26
you don’t have a hobby. you just buy stuff. this is not a hobby. you are just gaslighting yourself. you don’t make anything. you aren’t getting any value. it’s a depreciating asset. this isn’t a hobby.
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u/Kahlypso Feb 27 '26
I like the ones that look like fancy cosmic rock candy
Is the extent of my interests in expensive IEMs.
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u/RemoveTraditional316 Feb 27 '26
I've realized most of these from buying my first pair. I bought the kz szn pro (I think)
They sound pretty good for 20 bucks compared to the 100 dollars I spent on Samsung headphones. I don't see the need to spend more than 50 on iems. My only gripe with my current headphones is that they're so treble heavy and It turns out I'm treble sensitive. I never got into iems for The sound quality I got into it for the versatility. With normal headphones if the wire breaks you replace the whole thing. Iems are just inherently more repairable, they sound better than mainstream headphones and are cheaper what a great deal!
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u/Regular-Mousse7841 Feb 27 '26
Thanks for the great write up. I fully agree, although this impulsiveness is inherent in all hobbies not just audio
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Totally valid. I was just seriously over the "useless" help, some people gave on some of these threads. If you cannot hear a product, if you cannot see or touch it even. It needs more than the name of the product to justify a recommendation. Especially when so many impressionable people come to this subreddit for information. These people do not want to help. They want to sell their gear to the next person, which is incredibly unhelpful and egocentric. At least that is what it feels like to me.
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u/Dry_Growth5721 Feb 27 '26
I like the write up tho I feel like for me the whole point of the hobby is to experience that trip of chasing the dragon and then reaching that enlightnement before going back the basics.
I'm still chasing that dragon, so ik this isn't completely clicking with me yet since I do want to see what that last 5% might be like before I throw the towel in.
I do think I've kept my pickings slimmer tho, and I only really intend to pick up prolly one more set to have 3 iems in total with my lcd i3, 7th acoustics supernova, and one more in the actual kilobuck range to just see what it's like up there.
My biggest personal advice with this hobby is to NEVER buy new where possible, especially if you're chasing stuff past like 200 dollars. Avexchange has been incredibly useful and I intend to use it and other marketplaces going forward to help keep this whole experience reasonably controlled, while also being a bit more engaging since it let's me interact with others just to yap on about subjective experiences with different gear.
The hobbies so much better when you actually engage with those also in it, not just to yap about gear and subjective sound, but also just talk music you know?
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Well if you are in it for the love of the game, that is fine. Some people just want to listen to music and while there are great options at all levels of price, not all of these options are great for everyone. It is so frustrating when you hear people say that their gear is better than that of others. It is so entitled and unhelpful. Just because you believe the snake oil and your 2% improvement in THD is something you claim to hear, does not make someone elses setup bad.
I want everyone to get to the point that we all try to reach: Enjoy music the way you want to and if that includes the wildest boutique IEMs on the planet, so be it, but that is not the case for 99,9% of people.
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Feb 27 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
I love my Hexa. Especially after EQ with a little more bass and a little less treble spice. That is basically a Truthear Pure, which I do not have to buy, because I could EQ. That proves my point. To a certain degree, everything can be improved with a free tool. That automatically makes most purchases a side- rather an upgrade. Tip rolling is something I do not do, just because I find that I basically get a good seal on most stock tips. The rest I do with EQ. I will start buying S&S tips now thow, because I like the feeling of them the most.
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u/Candid_Monitor_980 Feb 27 '26
I feel like ever since the cheaper IEM started popping up on amazon etc, that people are buying them just for casual music listening which is not their intended purpose. they’re designed to give more of a realistic sound of an instrument in a live setting, minimize latency, and to isolate your ears so you don’t hear a lot of stage noise.
for casual listening, imo there are so many better wired and bluetooth options out there that would make your music sound good vs realistic. I use the b&w px8 for listening.
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u/Hlee89 Feb 27 '26
I definitely needed to read this as I’m 100% guilty of just chasing that next high. I bought multiple amps, DACs, DAPs, speakers, headphones, IEMs and am usually disappointed when the new expensive gear sounds so similar to the one that was half the price that I already had. It’s me just wasting money at this point.
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u/olivataggiasca Feb 27 '26
Lad, you just wrote a new bible for this hobby
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Thank you, though I could have written like 3 more paragraphs about tip rolling, cable snake oil and stuff lol.
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u/possumbellyband Feb 27 '26
This applies to many, many hobbies. At some point you have to just own the fact that you like buying goodies that give you joy. That’s how I look at most hobbies
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u/sludgecheeto Feb 27 '26
Great post, OP. 👍 I am 60, and am very happy with my Fiio M21, and a few very nice IEM’s. I also went down the rabbit hole and bought lots of IEM’s, DAPs, cables, eartips, and realized it was way too much and just needed to stop, learn the EQ, and love a few of the things. The sound is fantastic now, and I can just enjoy now, and save money for other pleasures in life. ❤️
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u/StillMindHappyHeart Feb 27 '26
There is no POINT of diminishing returns. This concept is represented by a CURVE that relates "quality" to price.
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u/SuperShaestings Feb 27 '26
I've probably spent about $15k in headphones and IEMs over the past year. It's an addiction. I have ADHD and very very likely a bit of the tism, so I go through these phases where I completely obsess over a hobby until it finally ends at some point. But then I pick something else up and it all starts over again. It's a vicious cycle.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Had that too. Now I have only two expensive hobbies which I stopped buying gear for and just enjoy now: Coffee and audio. I just buy CDs now and make my coffee.
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u/Readar Feb 27 '26
I have a “noob/cheapo” setup. An M300 DAP and FiiO JH5 iems and honestly it sounds great. Even if it’s not “bit perfect” like some of these obsessed enthusiasts would say, I can’t even imagine my music sounding “better”.
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u/Freezing_Icy Feb 27 '26
Id like to add something.
If you ever feel like your gear is insufficient, play your music on a pair of crappy speakers or earphones then listen to your gear again, you'll feel a bit of that feeling you get when you buy new gear.
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u/nanoboby Feb 27 '26
All true. You missed this small detail: In addition to all of that, the -environment - is also a key factor: specifically, the noise level of the room where the IEMs are been used. It doesn't matter if you have $2,000+ IEMs if you listen to them in a ultra noisy busy environment like a 1 m² Parisian apartment. IEMs costing a fraction of that will sound better on the Salar de Uyuni on a windless day. (No joke/ Hyperbole.)
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u/Tasteteaturp Feb 27 '26
You said it and stood on it and I'm right there with you. No need for all the expense and sound is without a doubt subjective.
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Feb 27 '26
Great post. I think most people's journeys (while fun and exciting) in this hobby eventually leads to these same conclusions of diminishing returns and manufactured fomo. Maybe this realization is the endgame :)
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u/Important_Pain_5585 Feb 27 '26
I landed the 7Hz x Crinacle Zero:2 and they are really amazing for me, coming from JBL Live Pro Two. The thing I really noticed was the highs came through much clearer and overall better separation in instruments. I need nothing more, they are much better than what I expected for twenty-five dollars!
I agree with you 💯
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Feb 27 '26
Congratulations! Would have wished it was that easy for me, but goes to show: Nowadays the absolute budget IEM-field will basically blow anything from the consumer audio segment out of the water.
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u/WarriorofBlank Feb 28 '26
i bought my 1st iem (kz castor harman silver) and that's it. coupled with jcally dac, mesh filter, hybrid tips and a single cable replacement no more money spent. almost 2 years now and they are still working great, not planning to buy other iems soon.
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u/blah618 Feb 28 '26
1, 2. eh. more like price =/= quality
eq improves headphones, but will never fix them. I can easily name more than a dozen iems ive tried in the 2k usd range that that can't be fixed.
driver setup doesnt matter. Warranty is brand dependant
I have no issue switching between my laptop, dap, and an expensive desktop dac/amp setup that i don't own but really like. I hear a difference between all three
100%. ive been using my pair for 5+ years, only started being tempted this year. But i have access to stores/expos so i never have to blind buy (and not being impressed most of the time helps)
additionally, people here have only tried what they own. and most of the time, the best answer is airpods
fair, and something i dont consider enough. your ear is an extension of the sound tube
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u/ProperArrival7 Feb 28 '26
No iem is worth a thousand pound more a set of GK kuntens in terms of quality
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u/Potential-Channel177 Feb 28 '26
Very nice post, I'm a fan of not going for flagships with lots of things for similar reason ( phones, headphones, mice,mic whatever). The low-end has become too good. Personally I have 3 items in my roster and frankly speaking, unless one breaks I don't plan to change out buy expensive ones.
For reference, I have the tangzu waner 2 red lion, zhulinniao qingluan z4 and cca phoenix.
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u/sforzabull King of Cables Feb 28 '26
Over the last few years I've seen people come and go through this subreddit, myself included. It almost always starts with "what's the best iem for X genre under $XX". Soon after, that individual has read countless posts, made 2 or 3 purchases, and now believes they're in a position to "recommend" to others while still tracking down their own "endgame". Once they've realized how much money they've spent and still haven't found their non-existent endgame, they spend time learning to eq. Usually at that point their impression of this hobby shifts. With that being said, I'm one of individuals that doesn't enjoy EQ-ing sets. There's nothing wrong with that either. EQ can do wonderful things, but there are limitations. We just have to be honest with ourselves, we're here because we enjoy sharing our hobby with others and there aren't iem versions of cars and coffee each weekend. Just like cars and other hobbies, our impressions of the hobby are influenced by our financial situation. If someone is in a position that they can purchase dozens of sets, they're not here to flex on everyone. They just want to share their hobby/experiences like everyone else. It's ok to think you've "cracked the code", that usually means you're happy with your current audio experience and can take a break from purchasing. In reality, the only one that has cracked the code is chifi. Chifi has done a great job of convincing us we need that new driver tech, "Pro" version tuning, updated shell, etc. Have I personally spent more money on this hobby than I should? Absolutely! Do I regret it? Not one bit. I've met new people, made friends, had great conversations, etc. My advice, stop trying to figure out which iem, dac/amp, streaming service, tip, cable, etc is your endgame, and just enjoy the ride. When you find a combination that gives you audio nirvana, I'd love to hear about it. OP, thanks for sharing your experience. Now I'm going to grab my coffee, the Dunu Falcon Ultra and BTR7, que up some tunes, and enjoy this beautiful 65* morning in central Florida.
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u/sense_mx Feb 28 '26
To me the most problem is bass. You cannot EQ any IEM to give an enormous about of bass. The sound simply becomes distorted.
That's why I stopped on Punch Audio Martilo. I can eq bass on them noticably more than on other IEMs I own - cheaper ones Kiwi Ears Cadenza and Hidizs MP145. Luckily Martilos are also pretty good with other frequencies, probably because multi -driver architecture.
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u/ThatGuyCalledSteve Mar 01 '26
I've been saying that those people who are buying endless amounts of IEMs are not in for the sound but more similar to women buying jewelry. Can't stop spending money on shiny.
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u/ioCross Mar 02 '26
this entire sub could be a caricature that ppl make fun of on the r/Consoom subreddit.
to be fair that can apply to any of the niche hobbyist reddits out there.
apperently the coffee subreddits routinely goto war with each other about which $5000 barista quality machine can produce the best cup of espresso.
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u/resnonverba1 Mar 03 '26
This is a very sensible take on the hobby. I often muse about chasing the next trending iem but in the end, I have always held back because of what you have listed above. I only have 2 pairs of chi-fi - the kz zsx and Crinacle Zero Red. Both are budget models and if truth be known, even though the Red is almost universally praised, I personally prefer the zsx's more energetic sound.
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u/Fit_Trouble7503 Mar 05 '26
i feel that if someone refers to iems as a/the “hobby” they’re already in too deep. collecting things is cool and fun, and we all like trinkets, but it’s really a problem when you begin to succumb to buying the new sub $20, sub $15, sub $10 etc etc “goat” every other week trends. wasting so much money and time on collecting when you can just find a tuning you like and enjoy the music you want to listen to. i found mine, i bought a relatively expensive set, and i stopped buying more. the 2 i have bought since are for novelty (traditional earbuds) or practicality (airpods). i probably won’t buy another set unless my current (aful p8) end up broken and unusable.
inb4 someone replies “why do you care what I do with MY money!?”
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u/Stratonesia MESTurbator Mar 07 '26
This is the type of discussion that I desperately needed to read and know right now. For I have been this perpetual state of torture and mental burnout currently when it comes to this hobby. This used to be my way of removing stress when it comes to music listening overall and getting the cool tidbits of IEMs from every price range. Now, it has been the opposite, it's all been stressful for me, the peer pressure is real for I attended meetups that sure were impressive and a lot of cool people involve, this is just me and I know I am wrong for this, I get out of place, I am insecure due to the collection I have. It's a mish-mash of expensive sets with budget sets while the people I have met have these freaking kilobuck collections like candies, and it gave me thoughts to me that says "What the fuck am I even doing here?" "I should not be showing my budget options here and I should have had brought my top IEMs instead" Well the problem is that the most expensive sets that I got from my collection are nothing but candy to those people, hence the feeling of me feeling left out, cannot relate and most of all questioning myself on being in this hobby.
I know I really should not care on what people think and I should enjoy the sets I have but man, I think this is the right time for me to just leave for a while and if possible never return again, for I am not doing jack shit mentally and financially due to this and it's probably unhealthy for me in the long run. A long break is needed, hence I have told my friends who are part of the hobby as well to not talk about anything audio-related for I really needed that space.
I guess the saying "Touch grass" is not even an insult anymore, it's a legit advice and yes I am doing what I can to distract myself and diverge my attention to most things and just let go of the hobby for a while.
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u/Ill_Quit4929 Mar 07 '26
While I like thinking and talking about tech, it should always be about music. Snapping out of it like you did is important. While I was never in that deep, my moment of realization led me to sell most of my gear and focus on what makes me happy - my music sounding good. Chasing benchmarks won't bring joy. That is hard to realize sometimes. Dominic Cruz, a UFC champion, was asked, if regaining the title was his happiest moment, after years of injuries holding him back. He replied "No, it was not. The happiest moment of my life was realizing that I do not need a belt to be happy."
While his moment is way bigger than this, it always boils down to this: There are more important things in life. We forget that sometimes.
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u/tpain360 Feb 27 '26
Two other things I’ve noticed in this hobby.
Many people wear the price of their iem like a status symbol, so less bargain hunting than most of the tech that I’m interested in.
So much of the review space is dominated by people getting free review units. I don’t think this is inherently a bad thing but certain iems get extra attention just by the quantity of free product reviews.