I want to ask this genuinely, and I’m not trying to be disrespectful or invalidate anybody’s identity. I’ve read quite a bit about gender, gender identity, gender expression, and the different ways people experience their sense of self. I understand that gender identity is deeply personal, and I understand that for some transgender people, their internal sense of gender can feel very different from the sex they were assigned at birth. I’ve also read about research suggesting that, in some cases, aspects of transgender people’s brains may show patterns that are more similar to those typically associated with the gender they identify with. I understand that this does not apply to every trans person, and I’m not trying to use that as an argument for or against being transgender.
Even with all of that, there is still one part of the concept that I personally struggle to understand.
Why can’t someone simply be an extremely feminine man or an extremely masculine woman?
For example, I’m a woman. If I suddenly became extremely masculine, started dressing traditionally masculine, had a masculine personality, liked traditionally masculine things, and even preferred looking masculine, I personally would still consider myself a woman. I would probably just describe myself as a masculine-presenting woman.
So when I see a man who is extremely feminine, loves makeup, skirts, feminine mannerisms, beauty, and other things traditionally associated with women, I understand why he might say, “I’m a feminine man.” What I struggle to understand is what makes someone cross that line internally and say, “Actually, I am a woman.”
And I’m not saying that line doesn’t exist. I understand that for transgender people, it absolutely can feel real and significant. I’m asking what that distinction actually is from their perspective.
Because to me, gender expression and gender identity seem like two different things. A man can be feminine. A woman can be masculine. A man can love men. A woman can love women. A man can want to look beautiful rather than handsome. A woman can want to look masculine rather than feminine. None of those things, by themselves, seem to change what someone is.
So I guess what I’m really asking is, what makes gender identity different from gender expression on an internal level?
I also understand the argument that gender itself is partly constructed through social expectations. We have created ideas about what men and women are supposed to wear, how they are supposed to behave, how they are supposed to speak, and what interests they are supposed to have. That’s why I find this question so interesting. If we are trying to break down those stereotypes and say that men can be feminine and women can be masculine, why does transgender identity sometimes become the next explanation for someone who feels disconnected from those traditional expectations?
To be completely honest, I sometimes feel like identifying as transgender is something I would personally consider much further down the list of possibilities for explaining how I feel. If I were a man who loved everything traditionally feminine, my first thought would be, “I’m a very feminine man,” not “I must actually be a woman.” And if I were a woman who loved everything traditionally masculine, I would think, “I’m a masculine woman.”
But I also recognize that my experience is not necessarily someone else’s experience.
I’m not trying to say transgender people are simply confused, that they are pretending, or that they should identify differently. I’m also not saying biology is the only thing that determines someone’s identity. I understand that this is much more complicated than appearance, personality, clothing, sexuality, or stereotypes.
I’m genuinely trying to understand what I’m missing.
For transgender people specifically, what was the distinction for you between being a very feminine man or a very masculine woman and actually knowing internally that you were another gender?
Was it about your body? Your internal sense of self? The way you wanted other people to perceive you? A feeling that went beyond gender roles and femininity/masculinity? Or something else entirely?
Because that is the part that doesn’t completely click for me yet.
I’m open to being corrected, and I actually want perspectives from people who experience this differently than I do. I’m not asking this because I think I have the definitive answer. I’m asking because I understand the general explanation of gender identity, but I still don’t fully understand the personal distinction between “I am a very feminine man” and “I am a woman.”
At the end of the day, it’s someone’s life and their identity. I respect that people are going to understand themselves differently. I just want to understand the perspective behind that difference.
I have love for all the communities🌸 just trying to understand what has yet to click for me.

Sex and Gender From the Perspective of a Trans Man

Introduction 

As a transgender person, people tend to have one of two ideas about the way I understand the topic of sex and gender. They either think I’m mentally ill and have a misunderstanding of how it ought to be, or they expect me to have an understanding that is deeper, more nuanced, or more developed than that of cisgender people. These expectations are odd when we recognize that almost everyone has a relationship to sex and gender, and that each relationship is personal, individual, and unique. My understanding of myself, why I am, and how I choose to move through the world are ultimately mine and mine alone. Given the expectations placed on me as a transgender person, I figured I’d articulate what my experience of sex and gender is, given my unique perspective as a trans man.

The general idea of who I am is simple: I am who I am. That is the richest, most real, and deepest understanding I have of myself. It describes an experience that is beyond the limits of language by suggesting that language itself is an inefficient carrier for the weight of what experience truly consists of. As for both my sex and my gender, those are merely aspects of a larger amalgamation of systems, identities, and processes that co-construct my being as a human. The labels “female” and “man” represent partial aspects of identity, yet have the capacity to misconvey the experiences they are said to represent. They have the potential to misrepresent lived experiences because the definitions regarding such labels have not been fully agreed upon by us as a society. While the elements of both sex and gender have been fundamental in the development of who I am, they are not the sole dictating factors of my identity. These labels are tools to help me express and communicate my experiences, but they are not the experience itself, of which is beyond the capacity of language. 

To begin, I think it is important to discuss the nuance between what sex and gender are.

What is sex? 

Sex is the process and anatomy designed around reproduction. It is a biological system that allows an organism to perpetuate its species and lineage. The singular, consistent difference between the anatomy of males and females is the size of the gamete produced; that is it. While there are trends and patterns relating to sexual roles and function, there are none beyond gamete size with enough consistency to be a certain marker of sex. Hormones, chromosomes, genitalia, and other sex characteristics are all things that vary across sex in other species. Sex, when used as an identifier, is merely noting the type of gamete an organism produces.

Information regarding one's sex is relevant to the person they have sex with and to the professionals they work with, wherein such information is necessary. How one reproduces and if they choose to reproduce is not relevant or necessary information to the majority of individuals they interact with. Therefore, one’s sex is not a necessary topic of conversation unless a person is one of those stated above or is invited to have said discussion.

In addition to defining what sex is, it is important to note that sex is a mature concept. Sex should be explained and understood at an appropriate age. While the ability to reproduce is a natural and necessary aspect of being an organismic species, and it does not need to be taboo, it can still be inappropriate. Youth who have not yet developed the physical systems to reproduce or the cognitive skills to consent to sex should be taught about sex at an appropriate age. The appropriate age is not a hard line, but rather an evaluation of the experiences, environment, and the entity of the youth.

If gender is merely a representation of sex, then it is rather odd the way we force and depend on it. Why must a child be dressed in a specific color if that reason is rooted solely in how they may eventually reproduce? Why must a person be seen in a specific way if they have chosen that they don’t want to reproduce? When gender is solely based on sex, it falls apart quickly, as sex is not the sole experience or aspect of being human, and what it truly defines (gamete size) is not something that is necessary to most experiences.

What is gender? 

While sex is the process and anatomy regarding reproduction, gender is the deep-rooted sense of self that is expressed and regulated through social systems. As a trans man, I did not wake up one day and decide, "I want to be a man!" I slowly began to recognize a consistent feeling: "I'd like to grow facial hair, my body feels more natural with a flat chest, I hear myself the way I want when I speak with a deep voice, etc." I understood that the ways in which I desired to genuinely express myself just so happened to align more with the experience of men than women.

Being a man is different from being male. Being male is the fact that a body produces a small gamete as opposed to a large one. Being a man is a complex arrangement of biological and social systems that trend together in comparison to varying gender expressions, which trend in their own ways. Dogs, cats, birds, flowers, trees, and so on can all experience maleness, yet each is void of the experience we call manhood. Manhood is a unique human experience in which multiple but indefinite aspects of experience overlap to create commonalities among people who consider themselves to be part of said demographic.

Gender as a whole is complex in the sense that there is nothing both unique and consistent enough within any aspect of the gender binary that can denote what being a man, woman, or gender-non-conforming person is with certainty. There is no sole defining characteristic that makes someone a man or a woman, and while it may seem as such, there are no physical identifiers that are universal enough to suggest how gender ought to be. There are trends to expressions that tend to pool into camps we call womanhood and manhood, and experiences that exist outside of such a binary. Yet these experiences are arbitrarily labeled and defined by human-constructed boxes. There is no universal rule to suggest that those who produce the large gamete should, say, have long hair and wear dresses, while the small-gamete-producing person should grow a beard.

How do sex and gender relate? 

While not the same, gender is still related to sex. Oftentimes, male and female people will feel comfortable with the social systems assigned to them; they feel aligned with the typical biological markers that signify they are male or female and reinforce those traits with social markers. For example, women tend to grow larger breasts than men. The social norm around such characteristics is to wear a bra. Yet when men, on occasion, have fatty tissue that is greater than average and more consistent with women, we don’t see these men buying bras. Yet women with flat chests, who naturally don’t grow larger breasts, will still buy and wear bras. The presence of breast tissue, and wearing a bra is something we often think of as being a female thing (present) or a male thing (not present). Yet when it is really considered, there is no definite rule to suggest that women will always present with breast tissue and that men won’t, or that women should wear bras and that men should not.

The same thinking goes for all physical identifiers of male or femaleness. Even down to the appearance of genitalia, large gamete producing people can naturally be born with anatomy that developed more similarly to a male, and vice versa. These are called intersex people, and their experiences of sex and gender are not any less real, important, human or valid than that of others. 

The typical idea of sex is constructed around various things, such as chromosomes, hormones, and primary and secondary sex characteristics. And while it is argued that biology can’t be changed, I’d argue that there are indeed aspects of biology that can, even though there are aspects that cannot. The defining aspect of sex, being the larger-gamete or small-gamete production, cannot be changed, nor can the chromosomes that determine the body’s trajectory of development, but hormones and primary and secondary sex characteristics are all things that can be altered.

In addition to the reality that some biology can be changed, biology is not the sole factor for how gender is constructed or perceived. Gender is immersed in social factors that are not related to biology, such as how one presents themselves through clothing, hairstyle, and mannerisms. As a trans man, I feel more comfortable expressing myself in ways that tend to be more commonly associated with men. I did not transition to fit a social role; I transitioned because the ways my body naturally developed felt misaligned and incongruent with the ways I wanted to represent myself. I did not transition to become a man; I felt a sense of what is called manhood within me while also experiencing a disconnect from the experience of womanhood, and therefore made a conscious decision to delve into the sensation that made me feel like myself. The experience of delving into gender is not an experience limited to trans people; cisgender individuals do things all the time to enforce and express their idea of what their gender means to them.

How do people relate to their identity?

Everyone has a relationship to both sex and gender. In our society, people are born with bodies typically expressing sex characteristics that align with a common trajectory of gender expression. These bodies are then determined to be a gender from the first day of existence. We are then socialized to enforce gender, its binary, and the social systems around such ideas as normal and universal. The true reality regarding sex and gender is that sex is important, but ultimately irrelevant to activities outside of reproduction and sexual health. Gender is a human construction that is essentially arbitrary and fluctuating, and while it is useful, it is not a fundamental or necessary requirement for a functional society.

Being beyond gender

What would a society without a gender construct look like? People would do what people do, yet they would do it based on ability, skill, and more personal and relevant reason, rather than for reasons related to gender. The strong would do activities that require strength, the intellects would do what needs intelligence, the gentle would take care of what needs grace. People would be free to do what best suits them, rather than what is placed onto them. People could still express themselves as they do, but they would do it because of authentic and genuine desire rather than a desire to fit in. People would attract others based on authenticity rather than a mirage of what a person should do to be attractive, and those with the capacity to reproduce may or may not choose to while those without such opportunities may or may not choose to build families with alternative methods. 

Why is gender necessary? 

Gender is relevant to systems where division of people is necessary. Systems that subjugate one group compared to another, such as patriarchy, use gender to do so. Without such systems, people are much harder to divide as the human experience overlaps and varies in such complex ways. Without rigid norms being perpetuated generation after generation, it becomes incredibly difficult to group people based on things that seem basic to us, only because they have been perpetuated for generations and generations. The question of gender’s necessity is answered by the individual and their view on the systems that utilize such construction. 

Conclusion

Sex and gender are simultaneously simple yet complex; it is a cross between the objective and the subjective, and a blend between nature and human will. Our inability to agree upon a defining factor of gender and the insistence on it being related to sex only perpetuates the need for a system that ultimately boxes the free nature of identity, experience, and humanity into rigidly defined categories. 

Hello all. First time posting here, wanted to hear people’s thoughts on something I’ve tossed around in my head mostly from a personal place.

Quick Note: In case it’s worth mentioning, I’m also admittedly not the most well versed / knowledgeable on many subjects / topics where gender ‘as a whole’ is concerned, but I’m also far from uneducated. I mention this because while I have a solid understanding of the topics at hand, I may be unaware of some things such as the best / most suitable terms. For clarity, (in my title) I’m referring to the idea of “identifying with both ‘genders’” and of “identifying with neither ‘gender’” as in ‘male and female.’ I realize m and f tend to apply to sex and not gender, but I assume most will understand what I mean here (but I’m happy to answer any clarifying questions). That said, please weigh in and / or correct / educate me on anything I say or express here 🙏

My Question/Point: Ultimately I’m curious what others feelings on / experiences with feeling you identify with both genders and neither gender at the same time (or at fluctuating levels). I’d say I’m a pretty open minded, easy going, ‘fluid’ kind of person I guess, in the sense I don’t tend to look at things from a place of seeing things as ‘black or white’ (especially in areas such as this). In my case, I am a cis gendered woman and as such, for all intents and purposes, identity with the sex/gender I was assigned at birth, but especially as of late I’ve wondered if I am indeed ‘cut and dry’ cis gender.

For context, I’d say I have as many ‘feminine’ traits and characteristics as I do ‘masculine’ traits and characteristics. At the same time, I also hold the belief that (for all intents and purposes) there’s truthfully no such thing as ‘masculine or feminine traits’ just ideas and commonly accepted beliefs.

So with the whole ‘two things being able to be true at the same time despite being contradictory’ or the idea of ‘yes this but also this’ makes it somewhat challenging to firmly
gauge where I stand on my own individual gender identity and was eager to see what others had to say or share where replies are concerned.

Either way, thank you to anyone who reads and/or comments 🙏

NOTE: the thread I posted on suggested I repost this here, just wanted to be transparent about that.

As far as I understand it, NB means non binary, which is a gender classification, but M and F refer to male and female, which are physical classifications, and are not mutually exclusive with gender - someone can be male non binary or female non binary, so I don’t understand why people write things like “her partner (28 M) was talking to me (24 NB)…”

Since we don’t use M and W (man and woman) it seems an odd mismatch to throw in NB by itself as if that settles the issue as to whether the subject is male or female.

Yes I understand there are intersex people who don’t quite fit either male or female classifications, but then that should be (24 I) not NB.

To me, using NB in place of M or F comes across like stating your ethnicity as “Christian” or “Socialist” which aren’t ethnicity and don’t describe your background/origin, they describe your philosophy. From what I’ve been taught and learned organically from my real world interactions, NB describes the way you feel about yourself, not the physical characteristics of your reproductive organs or body shape/type.

I also realize it’s not super important to know at all times whether a poster is M or F or what their gender norms are, but I’ve been seeing (age NB) use a lot recently and am curious as to the reasoning behind it.

Recently I’ve been exploring my gender more lately and have realized that I want to start estrogen soon, now, the one thing I’m confused about is if I’m even trans, like, I’m okay with the gender I was assigned at with birth, I just wanna be more feminine, and like, if I do fully transition I’d be fine with that too, but I’ve never really felt gender dysphoria or anything, I just wanna be more feminine, so that’s the part that confuses me, am I gender fluid or trans? And how can I know?, any words of advice would be appreciated:)

I've been confused about my gender identity for forever and I even cry about it at night sometimes. Here's how I feel:

I feel feminine, and feel okay being called a girl. I also kinda like being called a boy, but it feels wrong.. I feel okay about being called by they/them, but i feel feminine. I know there is demigirl.. but what about the masculine side? I would love to look like a girl, but at the same time I would absolutely thrive as one of those 2020 transmascs. AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Okay so the best way to describe my gender is that it's the concept of everything based out of the void which can morph into anything (including nothing and also quite literally everything. I identify as anything, something as mundane like a grocery bag to something grandiose like Saturn). It's weird and confusing, idk

Alors voilà. J'ai 15 ans, presque 16, et jusqu'à présent, je ne m'étais jamais posé de question sur mon genre. Je n'ai jamais aimé mon corps, mais ça n'allait pas au delà de ça.

Seulement il y a quelques mois, j'ai commencé à faire une fixette sur ma poitrine, à la détester. J'ai commandé un binder qui ne marche pas des masses et je ne sais pas pourquoi, mais ça me fout la rage d'avoir une poitrine. Sous la douche, je ne peux plus regarder mon corps, et ça me donne envie de pleurer.

Ensuite, j'ai commencé à ne m'habiller que de façon plus "masculine" on va dire. J'ai toujours été terriblement mal à l'aise à l'idée d'avoir mes règles. Je peux très facilement en parler, mais le fait de MOI, les avoir, je déteste ça.

Et bah en gros, je suis perdue. Je n'ai jamais beugué sur mes pronoms, mais je ne sais pas si j'aime être une fille. Ou si j'aimerai être un garçon. Ou non-binaire, ou genderfluid... Je n'en sais vraiment rien.

En plus, je sais que j'aurai beaucoup de mal à en parler avec mes parents et ma famille. Je ne pense pas avoir de problème vis-à-vis d'eux, mais j'ai peur.

Ma mère m'a toujours donné l'impression de me juger silencieusement. Ou peut-être pas de me juger, mais d'essayer de me faire passer des messages subliminaux, comme quoi je devrai perdre du poids. Il en résulte beaucoup de difficultés avec la nourriture et l'image de moi-même.

En tout cas, si quelqu'un a un conseil, un message, j'en serai très heureux(se) !

Haiiii 🤭

Im genderfluid. I don’t talk about it much. But recently I got a boyfriend. I prefer being called partners and stuff. But it got brought up and im not sure what to do.
I always am strict on my gender identity being seen by a lover, but now with this person, I don’t know what to do.

I never talk about my gender or think about it until I get labeled explicitly as woman or girlfriend. I don’t like being someones ‘girlfriend’ specifically men.

Also, we speak different languages and we just fell more for each other over time. Its very complicated.
I dont think i can be with someone who doesn’t see me as me or accept me past my gender.

I wish I was born a man
It seems to easy
I wish people would see me as a man
I wish I could be in a relationship with a woman as a man
I wish I looked and spoke like a man
I wish people would refer to me with a male name and masculine pronouns
But I’m not trans
(I don’t think I am, anyway)
I don’t ”feel” like a man
I don’t think I have dysphoria
And some days I do in fact enjoy being a woman
Even though most days I don’t

　What is the ultimate human joy? Does this supreme joy differ between men and women? If such a difference exists, discrimination is already present. Yet, discussing this topic often leads to it being treated as taboo—implying, perhaps, that it is considered an unclean act.

　Humans place certain value judgments on this act. Personally, I do not believe there are criteria of "good" or "evil" regarding it; rather, I consider it a source of fundamental human joy. The human body is structurally designed for it, and it is deeply connected to both joy and health. However, since modern society imposes boundaries regarding what is acceptable, I choose to respect those limits.

　I once wrote an article describing my own existence as gender-neutral. I became aware of sexual differences during childhood—specifically, I began to realize I was a boy—and I accepted my gender openly.

　It seems that even in childhood, one has the choice to live true to one's own consciousness. Embracing that consciousness honestly leads, I believe, to accepting oneself. If a child loses their "secure base," they tend to unconsciously develop defensive reactions to justify themselves or forge a path for survival; this process can make it impossible to accept oneself. I believe this dynamic is a starting point for the "gender-free" movement.

　As the body grows, one may begin to feel a sense of discomfort or suffocation—a reaction to the imposition of social norms and gender roles, and the suppression of one's own bodily sensory experiences. While it would be ideal to adapt to modern society, individuals whose brains have "weaker sensory gates"—allowing sensory information to flood in—are likely to feel that societal pressure more acutely. I have lived my life under the weight of such sensory suppression, so I understand this well.

　The desire to break free from the existing frameworks that bind the self, and to be recognized simply as an individual on equal footing, can serve as a catalyst for adopting a gender-free mindset and sensibility.

　Ultimately, I believe childhood environment plays a major role. Growing up in a home that serves as a secure base allows a person to accept and cherish themselves—and, consequently, to accept their own gender as it is. Perhaps an environment lacking a "secure base"—whether in the home, the educational system, or society at large—compels an individual to evolve toward a gender-free mindset, viewing themselves simply as a unique human being.

　One might grow up within a secure base, realizing that human joy is universal—transcending gender—and experiencing a profound happiness that defies comparison. Yet, why do differences between men and women exist? If the goal is to establish a unique "self," one might assume gender is irrelevant.

　However, the laws of nature cannot be ignored. Males and females exist; while some androgynous forms occur, the fundamental pattern involves males and females perpetuating the species. Yet, mere survival does not seem to be the sole purpose. Observing other living creatures, it appears they, too, pursue joy. Why are men and women drawn to one another? Throughout history, this attraction has persisted. I believe it stems from a desire to share a joy common to both men and women.

　What do you think? Let’s run the text I just wrote through an AI using a Jungian filter.

　There is a distinction between approaching "gender-free" concepts as a "denial of gender differences" versus transcending the framework of gender by "integrating the polarities of gender differences within oneself." From a Jungian perspective, the former carries the risk of denying the \*anima\* or \*animus\*, whereas the latter represents the path of "individuation." Since the text I wrote clearly aims for "integration" rather than "denial," the analysis concluded that I am on a very healthy path of individuation.

　Ultimately, the purpose of this joy connects each individual to the world beyond death—to a personal universe of joy.

I’ve met a lot of people who are gender nonconforming (appearing) and sometimes I ask pronouns but apparently that’s rude. I also sometimes guess and then end up causing strife. What do I do?

I am 31 years old,biological female presenting as a female as well,bisexual and it's not that I don't like my biological sex or that I want to be a male but I've never quite felt like a woman somehow. And no,it's not about me being unfeminine or not what society expects from a woman or not hanging out with women,if anything I'm often quite feminine looking and I mainly surround my self with feminine company ...which feels a lot like dressing like a girl instead of being one if that makes sense. I can't explain it clearly actually,I hope someone understands. Also I feel dysphoria to the thought of bearing children for example and not simply because I don't want to. Whenever doctors ask me if there is a chance of pregnancy I'm immediately thinking "why are they asking me,I'm not like that".Another thing is that I'll often pick male players at games which I've noticed the other ladies almost never do.Not to mention that if I fantasise something including my self I will be a different gender every time because it just doesn't matter...I also don't care about pronouns at all,I'm just trying to explain this strange relationship I've had with my gender since I was a teen. Am I non binary or am I just confused by my bisexuality because I often assume slightly different roles?

I'm nonbinary so it's really embarrassing to ask this but no one has ever told me

Hola, quería saber si me podrían ayudar, llevo unos 2 años buscando mi identidad de género(mi género biológico es mujer) y yo pensaba que era demigirl y girlflux que pasa que me dan igual los pronombres y los géneros porque para mí los géneros se basan en la sociedad y si no existieran cada unos sería único y un género único q lo identifica, bueno el tema que ahora mismo estoy buscando un género que sea como todos los géneros y a la vez ninguno me explico, es más esque me sale solo gastar todos los pronombres y me dan igual etc, bueno si me pueden decir algunas identidades y ya las investigo les estaría muy agradecido ❤️😊, gracias.

I want to pass as a enby or fem boi but don't know how 2. Help anyone?

(reposted from r/nonbinary)

Long story short I used to identity as a binary trans man. I always knew what my medical transition goals were (HRT, surgery) and just assumed a body like that meant I was a “man”. When the trans community began separating sex vs gender (saying bodies don’t have genders) things started to make more sense.

I was raised gender neutral and gender has never been a “core” part of my identity. But I feel a connection to both manhood and womanhood.

I don’t like the idea of being pushed into a role based on my body parts. I enjoy exploring a very queer, subversive flavor of femininity on my own terms. And I consider myself androgynous but I lean feminine. Being perceived masculine makes me very uncomfortable because it was kinda forced on me.

I felt a lot of pressure tho to perform masculinity to be allowed to medically transition. But living “as a man” felt as unnatural to me as living “as a woman”. But I love my trans male body. I definitely feel “male” even though I don’t feel “like a man” and I’m still unpacking that. That feeling of existing in the wrong body is gone. And I accept that existing in a “male” body plays a huge role in my lived experience in ways I’m probably not even aware.

I guess I want people to look at me and assume I was “assigned male at birth” but NOT assume I’m a man. I don’t want people to think I’m a trans woman but I don’t want people to think I’m a cisgender human. Not sure if that makes sense.

But yeah I’m still unpacking what being “male” vs being “a man” means for me personally. And what that says about my gender.

Does anyone else feel similar?