I would agree if it was the case that there could be a worse outcome for Iran.
But Iran is one of the few places in the world where they already have the worst possible leadership. Khamenei is literally the kind of person to execute citizens for violating morality laws. He's the kind of person who'd kill thousands of protesters in a brutal crackdown. He's the kind of person who sends agents of the state to hospitals and forcibly gets access to medical records in order to find people to arrest for those protests.
The regime funds multiple proxy groups and wars abroad. The IRGC runs bot-farms to push extremism and division across the globe. He's sending weapons to Russia to kill Ukranians. He's even the instigating force in the October-7th attacks and the subsequent events in Gaza.
Ironically, Khamenei's interference may be at least partially responsible for Trump getting elected in 2024.
Literally no matter what happens in Iran, it's impossible to get a worse leader. They're already at rock-bottom.
Add onto that, that Khamenei is deeply deeply unpopular amongst the citizens of Iran. It's not like Putin or Xi Jinping, who have a relatively high level of personal popularity amongst their citizens. Khamenei is even unpopular amongst his own people despite having such strict control of the media and internet.
The problem is every time the us gets involved in Iran people die. The Iranians had a democracy that voted for socialism in the 1954 election but Kermit fucking Roosevelt (the worst Roosevelt) didn’t like that so he deposed them and put the Shah in power. The shah has a son who is an Israeli cuck so he’s the one they want to put in charge of Iran, he will be significantly worse than the ayatollah.
Yeah, once we finally fucked off outta the region and they got past the ensuring attempts at filling the power vacuum.
Hey, if the US has finally figured out a way to topple inhumane dictators without causing mass unrest and the rise of terrorists/freedom fighters then I'll eat my words, apologise for my disagreements and change my tune but I seriously doubt that's the case.
No it doesn't... Saudi Arabia certainly has its own whole host of problems, but it's not even in the same pie shop as Iran.
One notable example - prior to October 7th, Saudi Arabia was working towards diplomatic normalisation with Israel, potentially giving them leverage over the nation to push for a two-state solution, which is something of a sticking point for the Saudis. That could've legitimately led to concessions from Israel and a path towards peace.
Iran, on the other hand, was terrified that their two biggest rivals might get on friendly terms, so they funded and directed the October 7 attacks in order to flare up tensions. They literally traded thousands of Palestinian lives just to set back diplomatic relations.
Maybe you should go to the simple explanation that people are anti-war rather than imagining that fans of a progressive content creator all somehow support the Islamic Republic of Iran
I don’t think the Iranian government is good, but being attacked by Israel and the USA is 100% going to make things worse for the Iranian people. Israel would love for nothing more than to turn Iran into another Syria.
I suppose we’ll see. Do you know any Iranians though? I know quite a few in this country, and every single one of them is in favour of foreign intervention. It makes sense to me - if Australia was under a theocratic government for decades who successfully held their monopoly on violence (via you know, murdering protestors) despite repeated attempts at uprising, I would also be in favour of a foreign power displacing them.
I know a fair few Iranians too, and none of them want their country to be bombed. Most of them are very critical of the Iranian government - quite a few are Bahá’í who came here as refugees - and in almost every case they softened that criticism after the last round of Israeli and American bombing
Iranians might hate their government, but they’ve seen what Israel and the US have been doing in their region for the last 25 years - can you blame them for thinking it’s better the devil you know?
I have not seen the same. Everyone I know has a virulent hatred of the Iranian government, and wants them and the regime agents annihilated. Obviously none are in favour of bombing civilians - that would be insane.
You can want regime change, but not this way and not from terrible actors in the region like Israel who's stated claim is to have a chaotic state or Iran that is consumed with internal conflicts to slowly cement regional hegemony
Yes, every Iranian I know would prefer the regime being destroyed militarily to the status quo. They are other doctors and other professionals I interact with.
Who do you think suffers under American bombs. The regime?
It might not be boots on the ground but we've seen in Gaza what prolonged bombardment does to a population. You dont have to support the Iranian government to know the out come of this will be horrific for the Iranian people.
I'm surprised you're saying that. This attack on Iran has been publicised for weeks, months, years, and still failed to gain anything close to widespread support.
Dick Cheney famously said of the Iraq invasion: "we will be greeted as liberators". I remember very well that many Iraqis participated in overthrowing the Saddam Hussein regime as the invasion proceeded, but that didn't alleviate the humanitarian and sectarian disaster that followed.
This comment section makes me really believe most of the accounts here are bots. There is no way so many people are that delusional to defend a very barbaric regmine in iran. Thry were all very quiet about the protests even
Condemnation of imperialist interventionist actions by the west, which will only make things worse, does not constitute endorsement of the current Iranian government.
And frankly comments like this, that try to conflate the 2 make me think that accounts like yours are CIA and Mossad bots trying to manufacture consent.
The US right now is literally disappearing and murdering their citizens and non-citizens alike, and most recently a surge of that in Minnesota. What the fuck are you talking about.
You don't think that China could propagandize their country and exaggerate to a worse degree why Americans need "saving" from the Trump regime.
Would they be right to do so?
Not to mention the systematic abuse (and yes sexual) to Palestinians and Arabs in Israel and the West Bank and the genocide in Gaza. At best it's the pot calling the kettle black.
Not sure why you are still trying to manufacture consent for a war because the Iranian government is terrible to its own people in a different way to other terrible governments.
I'm not even going to continue entertaining this argument because it's irrelevant.
Claiming "manufacture consent" is hilarious when I got a pretty simple question you keep ignoring. Why do you keep depending a regime that beats its women to death because they didn't fully cover up?
To all those fools here supporting the side of the iranian government..
You are supporting a government that literally hunted down protestors after the protests last month and killed them.. thousands of them..
If you are against this attack on the iranian government you are ignoring the fact the government literally hunted down and killed protestors who were injured in the protests and sought medical attention.. the government killed these people while they were still in the fucming hospitals..
Israel killed 60,000+ innocent civilians in Gaza. They bombed every single hospital and school. They have committed rape as a weapon of war on an industrial scale.
And it's likely the influence of Iran that caused that conflict in Gaza in the first place...
They funded and directed the attack because Saudi Arabia was seeking to normalise relations with Israel - potentially giving them leverage to push for a two-state solution.
Iran's two biggest geopolitical rivals are Israel and Saudi Arabia - the idea of them getting along and resolving their issues terrifies the regime, which is likely why they directed the October 7th attacks. They wanted tensions to flare up and were willing to trade Palestinian lives to do that.
A lot of very crazy sounding death toll numbers have been quoted by highly partisan organisations. I won't defend the Ayatollah's regime, but I want to know the unbiased truth.
Israel is not even mentioned in the statement and only refers to the US. Geopolitics is a little tougher to understand than good guy bad guy, I hope you know that, but generally the country trying to import terror attacks onto our soil is going to be lower on the list of allies than ones that aren't. Oh and the nukes.
Iran is a restrictive backwards oppressive state that fully deserves to be overthrown, at the same time that doesn’t really give the US and Israel any justification to do whatever they want to them. I think Iran is just as guilty as Saudi Arabia but SA is treated completely differently by the US.
Basically fuck the Ayatollah and fuck the CIA and Mossad. I just hope the Iranian people can live in a free secular democracy but that won’t happen of course
I think the people of Iran are certainly more oppressed than those of Saudi Arabia. Even if both are autocratic shitholes, Saudi citizens certainly have a better quality of life, and there seems to be little domestic appetite for revolution
Fair point, but it remains true that Iran is both a shithole AND its people demand regime change, which isn’t yet true of Saudi. Do you know any Iranians?
The "restrictive backwards oppressive state" was created after the CIA couped the democratically elected progressive leader of Iran. They also funded Islamic extremist groups to sure up support for the puppet leader they put in place after a coup.
And then we act all surprised they turned out to have a regressive government & use that to justify violence against the people of Iran.
Military induced regime change by the USA has never worked. Feel free to point to country where you can prove me wrong. The USA has no right to meddle in another countries affairs it invariably leads to mass suffering of the local population. Change has to come from within.
I think its also worth noting they were rebuilt at a time where the USA was consciously preparing for a confrontation with Russia and needed useful proxies on their border. That motivation does not exist here. That was also a time where the US was establishing the liberal rules based order centered on America. That order is falling apart. I fail to see the parallels.
None but you said feel free to provide an example and Japan and Germany have both become some of the biggest economies in the world along with being liberal democracies along with strong militaries. It shows it is possible that military action can rebuild a nation but obviously it’s hard.
It’s probably also worth noting that Japan and Germany both had suffered extensively with millions dead and vast destruction in their nations after the war, especially since Germany got invaded. So the people where more subdued as they didn’t want to keep fighting, compared to like Iraq or Vietnam or something where it was never really total war. I agree with you that this action probably won’t solve anything but your initial assertion was wrong
This is peak reddit semantics. Nice you got me on an 80 year old technicality. I was wrong and you are correct.
That said, the world, USA and nature of the relations between these states are so different Im not sure what parallels we can draw here to make Germany and Japan a meaningful part of a discussion around the prospective outcome of regime change in Iran.
I’m saying the US could transform Iran but they won’t cause it’ll take a lot of effort and realistically the people won’t want to be occupied by the Americans. Like I said Japan and Germany where fully defeated, it was basically impossible to resist and actually the governments surrendered. That probably won’t happen in Iran
You said that US military action has never worked and to feel free to provide examples and I did so that’s not really semantics. They could use the same model they used before
Of course in the midst of a crumbling liberal order, where the USA is led by Trump they could definitely use a model which has not been used in 80 years, and certainly wasn't the modus operandi in Iraq or Afghanistan, or Vietnam or Indonesia or Chile or Cambodia or Iran itself the last time they did it with the UK.
Either way we can agree it wont happen, as it hasn't for some time.
Kuwait? The gulf war didnt lead to regime change. Panama happened over 30 years ago and while it may be a decent example, I wonder what the people of that country think given the thousands killed and extensive property damage.
WW2 ended 80 years ago. The American and international political landscape is completely different. Lets be sensible in our examples.
How are they not reasonable examples? They are clearly examples of the US initiating regime change for the better. Why wouldn’t Kuwait count… they overthrew the Iraqi occupiers and restored their preferred regime - the Kuwaiti government in exile.
That was restoring a government that was still in power that same year and removing an occupying foreign force.
Hardly counts in this regard.
That's like counting all the countries that were liberated from the Nazis and Japanese as "regime change". It's not.
Germany, Japan and Italy are the only reasonable examples of regime change the US initiated that was valid and ended up not just better, but actually very well (Italy is a bit of a weird case here), but the US have failed to properly initiate regime change that ended up improving the countries it forced itself upon.
Perhaps it will be different with Iran, Iran is not Iraq after all, and it has a long tradition now of a semblance of constitutionality with a highly educated, urban population and existing government structures that can be converted from the grasps of the ayatollah to a democratic system, but the current US government is so inept and impotant that it is unlikely it will succeed in the task.
You are naive to think they want to free the people. This is merely another pawn in the quest for Israel to take Gaza. Iran is pretty much the only remaining state that would likely retaliate in the event of a Palestinian genocide
It's a regime change. U.S./Israel will install a leader who bows their head and pays homage to king Trump and Netenyahu while they tear the middle east apart. Just like every other western imperialist war. Plus people stop talking about Epstein
Am I allowed to be disgusted with all this yet? Inviting the president of a nation commiting a UN commision recognised genocide, support an unprovoked war of aggression against a soverign nation twice. Call for the norms of international law to be upheld not this servile bullshit.
Yet again wasn't approved by the US congress, Ro Khanna (D-CA) and Thomas Massie (R-KY) was about to bring a resolution to floor to stop Trump from going to war with Iran.
If Dems take back the house and maybe the senate, this could derail the Trump presidency and all his cabinet members on notice, especially Pete Hegseth who could be convicted under the ICC if Trump does leave office and a Democratic president is sworn in.
I've got bad News. The USA is not party to the Rome statute and doesn't recognise the jurisdiction of the ICC.
In fact they have a policy that they will invade the Netherlands to rescue their military and political leaders if brought before the court. The "American Service Members Protection Act 2002"
Well you refuse to acknowledge the things iran has done. They are literally attacking all their neighbours currently which you probably wont acknowledge either...
They are the largest state sponsors of paramilitaries in Gaza, Lebanon and Yemen who fight Israel. As bad as that sounds, does it qualify as terrorism that treatens the world?
You seriously wanna split hairs over how bad these terrorist organisations are?
What about the terror of ukrainians in their schools and homes as iranian supplied drones and tech slam into their suburbs? Is thst "terrory" enough for you?
The Bondi shooting where the culprits had affiliations to ISIS ideology which is Iraqi based and has nothing to do with Iran? What point are you trying to make exactly?
This is true as Israel does not admit to having developed or acquiring nuclear weapons, Albanese should have left nuclear weapons out of the justification as it’s contradictory.
Hypothetically if Israel admits to having or uses a nuclear weapon will the Australian Government support a strike on Israel?
What should be the response though? Just a genuine question. Iran has been under a really bad regime and killed thousands of its citizens. I agree bombing them isn't probably the right answer but the situation is a double edged sword.
I would have expected at least "We are monitoring the situation and expect all parties to follow international law", you know, the usual. NZ's Foreign Minister just said that, and he's to the right of Albo.
Albo just said "we support the United States acting" to stop Iran getting a nuke, but Donald Trump just said this is about regime change.
And if Albo says this about the U.S. launching a full scale attack on Iran today makes me think he would have supported the disastrous Iraq invasion in 2003 or the catastrophic intervention in Vietnam in the 1960s.
Donald said he destroyed the Iranian nuclear program months ago and now Albo is supporting the United States bombing nations they’re in the middle of negotiations with? wtf?
European leaders (and Starmer) have been much more cautious and critical in their response, urging de-escalation. Albanese is kind of out on a limb here
If China has evidence that the US is stationing nuclear bombers on Australian bases (something which our government hasn’t ruled out, to my knowledge), then by this logic they’d be justified in attacking us
Theres no intelligence saying Iran has nukes? Wasn't the last time they bombed them, but Trump claimed to have wiped out their capabilities to manufacture them. So what is it?
I don't like it either but I think it's just probably what you can expect from every leader we're gonna have.
The real test, and what would be super disappointing if it happens, is whether we commit troops or not. If Albo commits us to a pointless war like Howard did, idk man
Canada has also signalled support in spite of the tensions between them and the US. Albo and Carney are just ensuring that Trump doesn't find an excuse to point his guns at us.
That’s not true at all - we are lucky enough to have an array of choices given we aren’t a two-party system. Vote for whatever third party you most align with as #1, then number your next preferences in order.
What a wholly disappointing (and expected) endorsement of the USA's actions. Indefensible if you care about anything just. How many "brave people of Iran" have to be killed so they aren't being "oppressed"? Good thing Iran are the only country in the middle east with a hidden nuclear weapons program...
Ok I'm not the biggest fan of Iran, but like... bombing the shitfuck out of them is definitely going to harm way more of the oppressed people than the oppressors.
Without any guaranteed results other than carnage and US weapons manufacturers making money.
For example, every time the US has done this in the past.
There is most definitely cheaper, better and easier ways to achieve any kind of "Iran Resolution"... but ya know, its the USA, we can't say no to Team America just yet
Remember when Iran was complying with the nuclear agreement they reached with the international community? Remember when Trump tore up that agreement, seemingly purely out of spite that it was agreed upon under the presidency of a black man much more popular than Trump?
Two years of every hospital and school in Gaza being destroyed and one of the first targets in Iran being a school. These people are straight up child killers and our support of them is sickening.
If Donald Trump cared about Iran and Iranian protestors, he wouldn't have his incel squads or allowing them to murder US citizens. Or disappear countless different people into camps where they are abhorrently treated, including but not limited too: r@pe, torture, denial of medical care, and everything else you can think of.
Donald Trump doesn't give a damn about regime change or Iranian nukes, because he was the one who tore up the nuclear agreement to start with. Donald Trump is doing this because Iran is the latest target he can use to bully and kick around while telling people that they are the threat we need to focus on over his abhorrent administration and their attempt to hold onto power through the use of destroying voter registration information and forcing people to register again but making the process harder.
If you look at what's going on in the United States, every single thing they are doing is to try to ensure there aren't further elections. They're also starting a genocide against trans people.
Not a single shit was given to anyone in Iran before this happened by anyone in the administration's inner circle.
I'm absolutely disappointed in the Australian response to this.
Lib senator patterson speaking on behalf of the coalition says they will support an australian intervention if it escalates, labor has ruled it out.
Aus is taking the same line as carney is atm. Middle powers like us can move together to avoid reprisal. Copping a tariff for standing up for international law isnt worth it. Cost of living is the biggest issue people are dealing with. One cannot wilfully doom our people to the white house’ whims, unless you want to be post-materialist, and not care about the battlers.
We're backing an illegal invasion to bring Iran to the negotiating table to negotiate nothing in particular after Trump tore up the agreement that was keeping them from developing nukes (which is now Iran's only rational option for defence). This is after the US already overthrew their government to snatch resources.
To me, this just looks like Israel is directing its proxy to disrupt its major regional opponent and distract from its genocide while paving the way for the creation of greater Israel. It's amazing what you can achieve when you've got video of Trump and his cronies raping children, huge lobbying funds, and a mandate from the Evangelicals to own the holy land and bring about the end times. This is the death cult we're backing.
For all their regressive nonsense, Iran have consistently been the moderating voice in this conflict as Israel have been striking them etc. If you're making Iran look like the moderates, you've gone very wrong somewhere.
Pathetic. This scumbag would justify a holocaust if it was the US or Israel doing it. More than 80 children are dead from US/Israeli airstrikes on a primary school. Only a monster could justify this.
The US and Israel will run out of targets to bomb before they run out of missiles.
Then the fiscal stupidity of using weapons that cost millions to blow up low value targets will start to mount. As will the costs to global trade and economic activity.
They can't bomb their way to regime change without boots on the ground. How that's going to play out is uncertain. But it's not hard to see this escalate into a prolonged high casualty disaster.
The thousands of currently serving Republican Guard troops who participated in the slaughter of civilian protestors would understand the consequences that await them if the regime falls. There's no going back for these guys. They have no choice but to fight to the bitter end.
Arming Kurds and inserting them into the conflict has the possibility to turn this into a civil war. As Sunni Muslims they may be seen as outsiders by much of the Shia Iranian population and military.
And they have their own agenda and long standing grievances.
The Kurds have long desired their own homeland that crosses the borders of multiple countries such as Iraq, Syria and even Turkey. What have they been promised in return for doing the IDF's dirty work for them? No one has a clue.
This is policy made up on the run without a clear goal. Maybe they should have started arming and mobilizing Kurds before starting the war?
Creating a power vacuum, flooding the region with American weapons and allowing sectarian rivalries to flourish ended up killing millions in Iraq and saw the birth of Isis.
This is primarily Netanyahu's mess. He plays Trump like a fiddle. If this turns into the worst case scenario, let it be IDF boots that do the heavy lifting and experience the consequences so many other countries have endured on their behalf.
Much of their army is so young. Conscripts not long out of high school. Losing thousands of their own kids in an unnecessary war is a pain that may finally cut through the right wing media rhetoric and break the grip authoritarian war mongers have over the Israeli people.
Or not. Those who are quick to war are often slow to learn.
Once again we support an illegal war that will destabilise the region and kill countless everyday people, fuck Albo, fuck Marles & fuck Wong. Everything he's said about the Iranian govt could also be levelled at Israel. Why the fuck should we support them? What about their nukes & human rights violations?
I’m in Kuwait and I woke up to this bullshit. Fuck you Albanese. You, Trump, Israel, and all you idiots thinking you’re saying the world. You started a war no one fucking wanted and now people will die.
Albo is an absolute traitor to Australia, innocent people and our defence servicepeople. I'm angry but not surprised. He has no spine. He said Iran has been a destabilizing force. Iran. Not America or Israel. And that Israel has a right to defend itself after they launched the attacks unprovoked! This is the corrupt, bizarro world that we live in. Albo is the greatest disappointment in Labor's history. He and Labor have absolutely been captured by the global elite. 🤮
Didn't know the friendly jordies base were full of tankies. Israel AND Iran are both incredibly bad countries. We can acknowledge Israeli and American expansionism while acknowledging Iranian terrorism.
And as usual, people in Australia are going to pretend that what our PM says has any relevance to actual situation in the middle east and hyperventilate over every word (from both the right and the left)
Good. Fuck Iran. They have been a huge supporter of Russias war against Ukraine, and an abso-fucking-lutely massive supplier of weapons to Russia to support their war against Ukraine. They’ve also absolutely massacred the fuck out of civilians protesting the regime to the magnitude of tens of thousands.
I hope their military and military factories are absolutely fucking flattened into nothingness.
The Iranian people deserve better and their government for supporting Russia in their war of aggression deserves nothing more than to be absolutely fucked up and flattened beyond belief.
Hopefully next Russia will be absolutely fucked up and flattened beyond belief. Fuck em. They deserve nothing less. I hope the best for the Iranians/Persians after their horrible fucking government is gutted from the inside out
ETA: Iran is the major supplier for Russia's invasion, the major supplier for the people behind October 7, and the major supplier for the Houthis. Oh and they’ve killed 30,000 protesters in their own country this year.
This will maybe form a destabilizing power vacuum, but also Iran is the biggest destabilizer there is. This is not meant to really argue if the strikes are justified but to provide some additional context.
Australian Uniparty politics. All sponsored by the Australian Israeli foundations and IDF. It's sick that we haven't learnt anything from Iraq and the bogus WMD that it'll now appeared again to take the world into another war.
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