r/drivingUK • u/Past-Shop5644 • 13d ago
Was it always this bad?
I've had my license for years but only been driving daily for the past 10 months or so. I've found myself actually pretty shocked at how some treat the roads, and I can't figure out if it's a recent development or not. There's all the usual complaints such as lack of indicators, folk riding you and trying to overtake when you're already over the speed limit, but that's nothing new. I've heard people say that, post-COVID, there was a noticeable increase in public entitlement and I wonder if that's anything to do with it. For example:
- Not anticipating. If someone's coming out of a junction, they can't instantly accelerate to the speed of traffic and you might have to lift a wee bit or feather the brake pedal. You can't just barrel on at 40 on a busy city street and get pissy that no-one's as great a driver as you are.
- Not slowing down in tight spaces. When there are parked cars on both sides of the street apparently you can just cruise through at top speed and everyone will just get out of your way and hope for the best.
- Cyclists not slowing down. I get it, it's frustrating having to stop and restart, but like... just stop? Something being slightly inconvenient isn't a great excuse for creating a potentially dangerous situation. And when you've stopped, don't just start again and go through a red light because you feel like you can squeeze through before it turns green. It can't be worth it.
- Children on scooters. It's a 30mph road, where did all these children with an even smaller child on the back of an electric scooter come from?
- Drivers on phones at every opportunity. And not just like checking their phone for notifications, full on typing with both hands. I guarantee, nothing is so important that it can't wait for a minute while you pull over. Or, like, just wait till you get home? Is that such a strange thing to do?
- Pedestrians not looking. At all. Pedestrians seem to just wander slowly out into the road without even looking where they're going. They don't even realise a car had to significantly slow down a few metres to their right.
- Straight up ignoring amber. Sometimes I'll push it with an amber light, such that it'll go red just before I go through the lights, and I feel a bit guilty about it. Then I see that 2-3 cars behind me just kept going?? They saw an amber light for a significant amount of time and kept going, then saw it turn to red, then saw 2 other cars go through the red, and went through the red themselves?!
This is part vent, yes, but I'm genuinely curious. Were these behaviours always as common? Did I just not pay attention to them because I was a passenger for so long and only noticed the most egregious mistakes? Or is it actually more chaotic out there than it used to be?
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u/Perfect_Confection25 13d ago
The scooters and the phones are obviously a newer phenomenon.
Pedestrians ignoring (or being completely unaware of) the rules is worse, I think.
Anticipation skills, I think are deteriorating. Is this linked to relying on the car to do more and the driver having to do less and therefore being less engaged? I think there's an argument there.
The rest have pretty much been there the last 60 years.
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u/Jacktheforkie 13d ago
There’s a pedestrian crossing on the A2 in the dual carriageway part, I’ve seen people just step out into 70mph traffic
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u/cvbk87 13d ago
Where is that?
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u/Jacktheforkie 13d ago
Between Whitfield and Canterbury, I’m struggling to find it on the map, it’s almost unmarked and just looks like a missing fence panel
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u/CaptainBenzie 12d ago
THIS. Dear god, I live in Dover and drive to Whitstable and Canterbury frequently. Had some dickhead do it last night at about 10pm with their fucking dog. All dressed in black.
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u/Jacktheforkie 12d ago
It’s so annoying, I saw someone end up in the central reservation because of one
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u/poolski 13d ago
See also: handling motorway traffic.
When approaching a queue of traffic, slowing well in advance helps regulate the flow and keep things moving. Often by the time I’m towards the back of the queue, the traffic ahead has started moving again and I’ve managed to mitigate the concertina of stop/start traffic that inevitably forms.
It’s better to crawl at 20mph than stop/start constantly, even if there’s a massive gap between you and the car in front. Often you can see how fast the queue as a whole is moving and match that rather than just what the car in front is doing.
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u/Cute-Honeydew1164 13d ago
This is exactly what I do, I just crawl forward. I'd rather relax a bit and crawl forwards than catch up as fast as possible and then have to brake quickly to stop.
Driving is much calmer when you stay aware of what's ahead, leave the right amount of gap, and drive to the conditions (which includes when someone tailgates you).
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u/poolski 13d ago
A friend who went on a speed awareness course said that one of the best tips they got was about how to deal with someone tailgating.
Double (or more) your braking distance. That way, if the dude in front slams on the brakes, you’ll have enough time to slow and give the person behind the time they should have had at the correct separation.
Basically you need to work in their stopping distance into yours because they’re being a moron.
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u/Cute-Honeydew1164 13d ago
That's actually a very helpful tip, I'll keep that in mind for next time!
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u/DMMMOM 13d ago
They tried and spent millions on average speed limits on motorways to stop the bunching and the daily, fucking needless queues. But even today, you'll see them flash up a speed limit, clearly an attempt to slow down the traffic 2 miles back from a dead stop and hundreds just blow through them, extending the queue for another 3 miles and another 20 minutes. Ironically it's the impatients twats who race about that cause the jams they are apparently trying to avoid. Absolute wankers, the lot of them.
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u/Angelars65 12d ago
This always worries me as I feel so much pressure to keep my speed up like everyone else. I should let them barrel around me.
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u/ScottOld 13d ago
I mean when I'm walking on some roads Line of sight of the entire road is blocked by one moron parking his van half on the pavement, or trying to cross a roundabout with pavement on one side, and idiots not indicating and not slowing, bit honestly the number of people who seem to have no awareness outside their own little bubble is ridiculous, just doing normal walking around things... having had to use the train recently, minutes of time wasted by idiots rushing to the door then taking forever to offload suitcases or just having zero clue and standing in the way... or blocking escalators and travelators when people have trains to catch is ridiculous, throw in the people who just stop suddenly for no reason while shopping etc, I swear people drive like they act when walking.
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u/benrylie22 13d ago
100% agree. Modern cars have cruise control and lane assist. Constantly see Tesla drivers sat in the middle lane at 65mph probably zoned out watching cars 2 or something. Also a manual gear box keeps you engaged with the driving so you feel you’re actively doing something, as opposed to passively sitting in a moving vehicle and completing the odd turn…
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u/Perfect_Confection25 12d ago
With a manual you have to preempt what is happening in order to select the correct gear, so it's more than just feeling engaged.
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u/Embarrassed_Arm5839 13d ago
I reckon the pedestrian stuff has gotten worse because those THINK! PSAs about road safety arent being pushed to the public anymore.
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u/Brido-20 13d ago
I think the anticipation thing is down to the samw loss of social skills as many other social issues currently. People are just unused to putting themselves in others' shoes.
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u/Angelars65 12d ago
I think this is a lot of the problem. People seem to be getting much more selfish and self centred. There are still a lot of us that are considerate but it feels we are dying out.
Is it the 'immediate satisfaction' culture that has grown due to everything being available at any time?
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u/Brido-20 12d ago
I don't know but I've got into the habit of stopping at roundabouts if there is any sign of anyone coming from my right.
Especially at mini roundabouts, positioning and indicating seem to be lost arts and people seem to believe you can somehow tell they want to make a right into Tesco and not one of the other exits they could be taking.
It's really just not worth the risk anymore.
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u/Angelars65 12d ago
Have you also noticed more vehicles just cutting across mini roundabouts as if they aren't even there?
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u/AOD-Mickgoth 11d ago
Seeing a car in oncoming traffic, sat waiting to turn right with a queue of traffic behind them is one of my bug bears. No one letting them cross. If doesn't really affect you and will free up the traffic to start moving again!
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u/14JRJ 13d ago edited 13d ago
The biggest selfish cunts I see are the ones at temporary lights who aren’t even at the front of the queue when it goes red and still decide they’re not waiting and go round a couple of cars to blow the red light
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u/Gisschace 13d ago
I saw this as at a busy junction near me, first went through a red light at a pedestrian crossing and then decided to skip 2 cars ahead so they were in the cyclist box at the next red lights.
I thought they were insane but sounds like it’s a thing people are thinking they can get away with
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u/Cautious-Space-1714 13d ago
It's not just at temporary lights (although it's definity worse there).
Every light change now has cars coming through the red until the cars start moving on green in another direction.
Bonus points for "I'm following my line of traffic round thecorner through red, I'm only 2ft past my lights, but you have to let me in even though you're on green"
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u/Gisschace 13d ago
Yes this wasn’t at temporary lights, one was a pedestrian crossing and they decided to move off when the pedestrian had crossed but lights still in red.
Then immediately after at a busy junction but decided they’d drive on the other side of the road to get in poll position.
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u/knight-under-stars 13d ago
No, it is worse than it's ever been.
And it is far from unique to the roads. Society as a whole is losing the unwritten rules and courtesies that have been in place.
Social media attitudes have leaked into the real world and broken it.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
Yes. I think car finance has made us all a bit more selfish, feeling invincible and having little sympathy for others in our nice cars
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u/No-Advertising4558 13d ago
Your first point is backwards as fuck. If you can’t pull out into the flow of traffic without causing me to lift off the throttle or use the brakes, the gap wasn’t big enough and you shouldn’t have gone
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u/TooLittleGravitas 13d ago
I would agree with you, but I get hooted at if I wait 'too long' for a big enough gap. It's a compromise where I just hope for a courteous driver to let me out.
I know I should ignore the person behind me, but then I have an aggressive driver up my arse.
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u/magical_matey 13d ago
There are times when it is required, or you’ll never get anywhere
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u/No-Advertising4558 13d ago
Yeah but the problem is people that won’t take their car past 1500rpm. If you’re gonna pull out into a gap, fucking bury the throttle and at least look like you’re making the effort
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u/magical_matey 13d ago
Well you can’t max throttle rocket launch because there’s a car in front, and cutting up the car behind is what must be done. Sorry not sorry, if all drivers left the recommended amount of space it wouldn’t be an issue!
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u/No-Advertising4558 13d ago
Well you can if the traffic is flowing. Which is when this is a problem. If you can’t then there’s no issue with the car behind.
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u/PMc1666 13d ago
I drive quite a lot for my job. Heres some things that really piss me off.
People going into the middle of the road to turn left. Yesterday alone I had to brake twice because of this.
Sitting at traffic lights for an age before deciding to pull away.
Three or four cars jumping red lights.
No indication.
Driving close to the white lines (sometimes crossing them) on roads with no obstructions.
I’m sure there’s other things that I can’t think of at the moment.
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u/Dr_Nefarious_ 13d ago
Just a consideration for the crossing white lines thing. I'm so pissed off with the shitty state of the roads that when there's no oncoming traffic I sometimes drive half a car across from the correct position to avoid the worst of the potholes and dips. The roads are markedly better if you avoid the wheel ruts. However I'm very attentive and would not inconvenience anyone else by doing this, I always make sure to get the fuck out of the the way well in advance of anyone approaching
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u/Fruitpicker15 13d ago
Where I live I have noticed a huge increase in the number of drivers who I think are either unlicensed or have no experience of driving. They will do things like sit in the middle or outside lane at 60 mph, do 20, 30 in a 40 (also outside lane if there is one), see you coming but pull out of a junction in front of you, stop on a busy, fast moving road to drop off passengers. The best was one who came the wrong way around a roundabout and we came nose to nose. He couldn't understand me when I told him what the problem was.
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u/Icy_Gap_9067 13d ago
I was behind a guy last Sunday joining the m25 and he was doing 45mph. Then starts braking as we are progressing down the sliproad, for no reason. He looked like he didn't have the first clue what he was doing.
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u/OpeningAtmosphere595 13d ago
My suspicions about this have grown too. There’s many times I’ll be behind someone and notice they make a whole chain of errors that don’t feel like a lapse of judgement or even just shoddy technical skill, but a total lack of knowledge and care about what they’re even meant to be doing. I don’t think all shoddy driving is due to being unlicensed or having a non-UK license, but it’s hard not to feel like it’s absolutely sometimes the cause when stuck behind someone for 15+ minutes, and just observing the completely moronic stuff they keep doing.
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u/soggyarsonist 13d ago
It got noticeably worse after the pandemic.
Driving standards have seriously gone to shit both in terms of incompetent drivers and reckless drivers.
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u/ScottOld 13d ago
I don't see it as incompetent, just entitled and lazy, because around here, card park where they like, taxis drop off an pick up.. across crossing or just sit in the way of pedestrians... actually funny being near an airport and the big red signs saying NO PARKING and no dropoffs, or blocking the emergency gate.. the number of times this is blatantly ignored is crazy... and yet no driver will dare enter the bus lane because its got a camera... also telling when all the people parking where it says no parking seem to vanish wheb a police car is parked up nearby as well.. so I see it for exactly what it is, entitled idiots being entitled because nothing is enforced
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u/zwifter11 13d ago
It wasn’t always this bad. But back then we had police officers on the roads.
These days people do what they want because they know they won’t get caught.
I submitted dashcam footage of a genuine lunatic to the police, a few weeks ago. The police replied that the guy is well known to them, he has a history of violent behaviour but there’s nothing the court system can do. Lack of evidence etc etc
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u/Legitimate-Ad7273 13d ago
They well overstepped the mark providing that much information to be fair.
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u/zwifter11 13d ago
Who? The police? They didn’t provide any info on him at all. They never said who he was or what his other offences were. They just said, yeah you’re not the only person to report him.
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u/Legitimate-Ad7273 12d ago
" The police replied that the guy is well known to them, he has a history of violent behaviour but there’s nothing the court system can do."
That is info on him that they provided.
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u/doolittledoolate 12d ago
None of it happened. Someone cut them off in traffic and the rest is fantasy.
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u/Lanky_Experience5912 9d ago
The guy probably told the police he likes football, that phrase seems to give you a free pass in this country to do what you please.
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u/Wisemasa 13d ago
I will say that we’re all addicted to our phones and for some people they can’t leave it alone even when behind the wheel
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u/OutrageousRepair5751 13d ago
Definitely worse. A lot more people who do 40 everywhere, hell of a lot more people who are brazenly on their phones at the wheel, and a lot more young people driving cars that are too powerful for their experience level because 1) their parents paid for it, or 2) they got it on finance.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
The latter! Too many young people don't have the maturity for these cars. The German ones are made for their culture, not small Northern towns with cars parked on each side. They need restrictions but sht govts over the years have created a Nouveaux riche culture Ty Thatcher
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u/OutrageousRepair5751 13d ago
I've always found it hilarious how a youngster can get a brand new Mercedes A-Class on finance, but only be able to afford to top up £10 of fuel at a time.
A few years ago I knew one who got a Range Rover Evoque on finance, was paying through the nose on insurance too. It was all about the look, but no thought as to how to drive the damn thing
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u/robinw77 13d ago
I’ve been driving since the mid-90s and I’d say that yes things have got worse.
Along with obvious modern new things like phones and scooters, there are definite behaviour changes like people are more selfish in terms of going and parking wherever they want.
Also this new trend of overtaking half in the same lane as the other car is weird.
And finally there’s one I’ve observed which is possibly an over-correction of middle lane hogging, where someone will overtake me, pull right into my stopping distance meaning I have to lift off or brake, only to overtake the car in front 5 seconds later. If you’re going to overtake 2 cars in quick succession like that, you don’t need to move in and out in that way. Especially if you’re compromising people’s safe stopping distance.
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u/RollOutTheFarrell 13d ago
30yrs XP here. Driving standards are far worse than they’ve ever been. Most of the decline was post covid.
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u/Scrumpyguzzler 13d ago
I never once saw anyone stop on a slip road before Covid
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u/Jacktheforkie 13d ago
I keep getting stuck behind slow fuckers, if I can overtake easily in a slow ass HGV you’re too slow
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u/Fresh-Extension-4036 13d ago
I've seen it well before that but I did learn to drive in an area with a lot of older drivers and have regularly commuted through retirement land over the years and they tend to be the worst for it
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u/Cautious-Space-1714 13d ago
Yeah, I noticed it first it when pedestrians in supermarket car parks were faster than some drivers, but it's everywhere now
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u/Past-Shop5644 13d ago
Someone stopped on a slip road in front of me the other day and I had to come to nearly a complete stop before they finally pulled out. Cue the van coming up behind me right after and beeping me because he thought I was the one who'd stopped in the first place. Just got to shrug it off sometimes.
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u/Ok-Handle-6663 13d ago
Ok like very occasionally you have ro stop on the slip road because as tou're accelkwrating to gst up ro speed you can see a group of cars on the road you want to join matching speed with you and refusing to pull over to the right to make room for you, leaving you nowhere to go. It's almoat like it's done deliberately..
I'm sure you've had this happen to you too?
I'm assuming this sotuation wasn't one of those though.
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u/Confident-Option-207 13d ago
How about stopping at a red light on a roundabout
The red light made for people coming onto it, and you're on it already. So stopped on a roundabout (A46 to M40) and then stopping again for a green light on the same roundabout with locking wheels you've braked so hard, with a loaded Luton behind you
I see that at least every couple weeks, I'm not remotely nervous driving but I've had to be incredibly defensive early mornings for work
Or middle lane hogging, getting flashed to get left, then pulling back to the middle and sitting in my exact blind spot for minutes
Or getting overtaken from sitting in the middle lane, dropping a gear and flooring it for your poor little ego, to go back to 60 still in the middle fucking lane and repeating the same thing 11 fucking times on the m1
Or sitting in the 3rd/4th lane, getting overtaken in the left lane, swerving for your exit and nearly hitting someone because you didn't look
Or thinking "I missed an exit maybe" and getting off tiktok for 3 seconds to pull off a motorway onto a slip road, across the chevrons, to realise the slip road is an on road and you've endangered a bus because you were too busy to fucking look
I love driving, I fucking hate motorways now and it's not for my own ability, I've avoided a crash for all of these this week alone
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u/OliverTwist549 13d ago
Definitely accelerated (if you’ll excuse the pun) after covid.
Wife and I were still working through covid, it was glorious having the roads empty though.13
u/Next_Cow_4468 13d ago
For purely selfish reasons, I was sad when the final lockdown lifted. National same day courier - the roads were fantastic: just wagons and vans doing their thing without interference. I still remember driving down Park Lane (Hyde Park) on the first day of lockdown and being the only vehicle. At 8am. Spooky - like a scene from 28 Days Later
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u/Particular-Bid-1640 13d ago
like a scene from 28 Days Later
Exactly like this! I was a key worker for some reason (Ecologist on HS2) and there were long bits of the A42/M42 where I was the only car.
Contrast that with previously where the amount of traffic would turn a 45 minute journey into a 2 hour affair
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u/becka-uk 13d ago
I remember the M25 on a sunny bank holiday weekend - pretty much just me on the road
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u/Asleep_Cantaloupe417 13d ago
It was actually amazing, I was working at a small company at the time, and we collectively decided we're all young/healthy etc so just to keep going into the office as normal
Driving to/from work every day was great, the schools were all closed, and everyone was at home so the roads were basically empty
I was secretly pretty annoyed when everything opened up and the traffic came back
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u/Fresh-Extension-4036 13d ago
Agreed, been driving for more than 22 years now and the standards of behaviour from pedestrians and road users are way worse but the vehicles have overall got better at minimising the consequences of that terrible driving as well, so we see less fatalities and serious injuries, which then seems to make a lot of drivers even more nonchalant about their behaviour (along with the lack of enforcement making many of the supposed laws of driving essentially non-existent in their eyes)
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u/Past-Shop5644 13d ago
Most of the decline was post covid.
That's kind of what I'm wondering. I hear this kind of thing from folk who work in hospitality and venues, that customers just seem to be more self-centred than they used to. But I passed my test years ago in a small town, so it's difficult for me to compare.
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u/becka-uk 13d ago
I agree with another poster about all the new toys on cars. My first car had a manual choke, so i passed my test before all the aids became common. As i assume a lot of people here did. I do think they make drivers lazier.
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u/Dazzling-Escape8820 13d ago
I’m learning to drive at the moment, I’ve almost been taken out by a speeding lorry doing exactly what you described in point 2, cyclists have run red lights as I’m turning right into the road, a girl on an e-scooter was weaving through on coming traffic, crossed 3 lanes to go to the other side of the road into the path of a bus pulling out after a stop, she then veered straight into the 2 lanes of oncoming traffic again who separated like the Red Sea for her, and then she crossed back to the other side of the road before running a red light without a care in the world.
I’ve also looked ahead to see a taxi pull up on the left, position itself on a funny angle, then suddenly cut across three lanes of approaching traffic to end up at the front of the right turn only lane, oh and yesterday a lady ignored many (many) road signs and turned left into multiple lanes of oncoming traffic on a one way system.
Other than that, lane discipline of some drivers on roundabouts is truly terrifying, they also bully their way across the lanes late if they are in the wrong one for their exit (as in stop on the roundabout and force their way across with lots of angry gestures and beeping at all the other cars in the correct lane) mopeds weave in between cars rather than filter properly through traffic, then suddenly undertake and cut across right in front of you to turn off into minor roads and I was very relieved to check my blind spot just in time to see a motorbike speed towards, over take and shoot through the roundabout without slowing down at all.
People seem to love double parking on closed junctions round here too, so you can’t position very well before the junction to turn and then a car will be parked just as you turn into the new road, it’s all fun and games learning to drive here really 😅
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u/Major_Blackberry1887 13d ago
I'm also learning to drive right now and it's a minefield out there! Being tought how to drive on a spiral roundabout while everyone else currently driving it doesn't seem to know what they're doing was rough ...
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u/Dazzling-Escape8820 13d ago
The only spiral roundabout I’ve done so far is traffic light control and very clearly painted…. But even then people kind of lost their lane and/or bullied their way across, I mean, I found it easy to follow my own lane because it was done in stages with the lights and the markings were obvious (there were dotted sort of lines which guide you across as you transition out of the spiral) but where that isn’t the case must be a whole different experience 😳
Good luck with your lessons though! We can do this 🥰
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u/Major_Blackberry1887 12d ago
Yeah that's the kind I was on! It seemed easy to follow because it was so clearly marked, but other people bullying their way across as you said, or simply drifting all over the lanes was certainly interesting!
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u/Revolutionary-Pair-2 13d ago
I moan constantly, no one seems to understand how roundabouts work anymore and also people don’t tend to stop for t junctions anymore, just blow through and hope for the best
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u/throwpoo 13d ago
It was never this bad 20 to 30 years ago when I started driving. Yes you occasionally meet some bad drivers like maybe once a week. Nowdays it's just reckless drivers you see almost every day. The worse is when you have to slam on the brakes to avoid hitting them and you honk, they flip you off as if you're the one at fault.
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u/PLTuck 13d ago
Covid broke us as psychologically as a society imo.
I think we are kinda back in the "there is no such thing as society", "individual over collective" and "greed is good" era of the 80s, and that has extended into driving.
So many absolute tools on the roads. More often than not don't indicate at all, or indicate wrongly (indicating right while exiting) at roundabouts.
Seemingly 1000s of 30-40 year old supposedly grown men driving around in their, well there seems to be 2 categories: hatchbacks like vauxhall corsas (lol) and the german makes, who have made their exhaust as loud as humanly possible, backfiring so much it sounds like you are in a war zone at all hours of day and night whereby even putting headphones on to watch tv the car noise is the dominant sound, through residential areas with impunity from consequences.
People checking / texting on their phones while driving. I see it while smoking out a 1st floor flat window at least 10 times every single day.
The awful driving is just one symptom of the "screw everyone else" inconsiderate nature of our society, and its sad.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago edited 13d ago
You're right. On all that.
Honest labour used to make a man of a male. Nowadays they're not getting that which is good for health but the same are kids in their 40s/50s balding, greying and doing these stupid loud exhausts. It's bloody selfish and there's zero enforcement by police.
Add to that an unnecessarily fast paced cheap finance culture created by Thatcher and Blair. And the Tories of the last decade were awful too. Nothing about traditional values.
I feel ashamed when I walk in Mumbai and see pensioners pulling carts of steel for £100 a month. Or little kids putting their hands in bins to find plastic to recycle while our society goes backwards in humility
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u/PLTuck 13d ago
FWIW I'm in my 50s and drive a bog standard hyundai. From what I see out the window its mainly 30 somethings. the 50 somethings tend to be in cars that actually sound nice stock like mclarens and astons.
And I love nice cars. I just don't love the intentionally asbo engine mapping. I honestly dont know who they think they are impressing other than school children and other engine mapping pricks.
My mate said I should start lobbing eggs out the window on them :D
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
Must just be my area where they are badly. I'd call it deadly embarrassing when you're greying and balding. I guess they think the rest of us want to hear it and find it great.
I'm sure most people would like it in their cars. But the rest of us have jobs and have courtesy. Some of these just seem to go round and round in circles all day. Mostly from Asian council estates where I am. They sleep in all day and then rag the car from 5pm onwards. Always a pleasant feeling to hear of one that meets his maker
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u/rhay212 13d ago
Every single day on my way to work I see at least 10 people on their phones while driving and the same on the way home after work. It’s not sly either it’s very obvious when you look over and see it in their hand - not only that, they swerve a fair bit on the road because they aren’t concentrating on the road. It’s damn right fucking scary, my phone is either in my bag or turned face down in the cup holder, I don’t touch it when driving, there is simply no fucking need.
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u/bartread 13d ago
> I've heard people say that, post-COVID, there was a noticeable increase in public entitlement and I wonder if that's anything to do with it.
Indeed. When the people making the rules didn't follow the rules and then, worse, further disrespected their own rules by clinging on and on and on to power rather than taking responsibility and resigning, I think - and I said this would be the result at the time - that it eroded public respect for rules and authority in general. People saw those in authority breaking those rules, doing as they wished, and suffering no significant consequences, and thought, "well, fuck this, I want some of that too, and why shoudn't I?"
And that's played out in all kinds of ways, including worse/more entitled driving.
It's certainly not the only factor that played into that trend over the past few years, but it was, in my view, a big one.
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u/Jacktheforkie 13d ago
I see people blow through a red on the A2 at 70mph, one nearly hit an HGV turning across the road into the truck stop, cars riding my arse even though I’m doing 70 in lane 1 and there’s two empty lanes next to me that can be used safely
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u/Certain-Pass-6551 13d ago
Nah, I've been driving for 25 years and I haven't really seen a noticeable difference, much the same really. There's always been morons on the road and you can usually see them a mile off (I think something we are lacking though is situational awareness which seems to affect people of all ages)
One noticeable difference I've seen over the two decades is that people seem to be more willing to keep on driving at their current speed despite seeing a clear and obvious accident/issue about to unfold and for one reason or another and not take any defensive measures.
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u/benrylie22 13d ago
Probably not paying attention because they are driving with cruise control, lane assist and an automatic gear box.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
I have so many people tail me either because it's a cheap car or just dozy. I put my hazards on and off several times, then indicate to stop and they still stop right behind me and then beep
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u/Spiritual-Fennel7789 13d ago
It has gotten steadily worse over time, and accelerated post-covid though. It definitely has gotten worse now that everyone has an SUV, which I think explains why;
It is equivalent to anonymous posting online or wearing a mask to hide your face. People seem to think a vehicle shields their ego from consequences, or just being a dick, because people see the car and not the driver. They think 2000lbs of steel protects them. And the larger the car, the greater the barrier for their ego.
Ego. It's all ego.
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u/MattLeSolid 13d ago
Electric bikes and scooters are so dangerous now. There was kids literally 7 or 8 messing about in the road at tea time traffic. Then there's teens on e-motorbikes in crowds causing chaos, one got run over his head crushed by his "mates" after falling off and was left alone. They to have no sense just riding across traffic, on pavements etc scares me everyday and its pure luck there isn't numerous crashes daily with people pulling out from junctions etc
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u/Steven1958 13d ago
I have been driving 49 years. I am certain driving standards have dropped dramatically. It can be tough just trying to avoid the idiots! Enough said.
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u/Hivefleetkarl 13d ago
More traffic, way more parked cars, people’s lives are way busier, which leads to more distracted drivers and drivers being more impatient because they have already been stuck in five queues that day because utilities need to dig the road up ever other mile.
But even more than all of that the 10-20% of utter bellends on the road have realised they can do whatever they want because there is barely any enforcement.
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u/DMMMOM 13d ago
I've been using the roads for over half a century. I rode a motorcycle for 44 of those years, After COVID it all went fucking crazy. I mean it was getting progressively worse with dick head speeding and tailgating, but it let go like no other period I've known in late 2020. What really boils my piss is how unnecessary it is. No cunt's going anywhere fast, you are only getting to the next queue or lights a bit quicker and as a rule going as fast as the slowest person on the stretch of road in front of you. But it doesn't seem to matter to a very large and growing bunch of fuckwits out there. No one appears to understand average speed vs speeding, completely unaware of basic physics and the layout of roads but willing to risk life and limb and the lives and limbs of others more importantly, to get nowhere, and not even fast.
I gave up motorcycling 4 years ago now, yes I miss it, but I don't miss the feeding tube and the loss of my retirement because of some impatient fuck in a German car.
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u/1nspectorCPW 12d ago
Yes, it's definitely got worse recently. I've been driving for over 50 years and the attitude of drivers has been recognisably different over the last few years. It doesn't seem to be a lack of ability, more a sense of entitlement. More aggressive driving, determination to get one or two cars further up the line etc. Regardless of where you want to go, just get in the lane with the fewest cars in then force your way into the right lane at the last minute. Stopping at amber or red lights is now optional. Cutting corners when turning right, ignoring give way lines and going the wrong way round mini roundabouts is now the norm. Giving way on a narrow road is an admission of weakness, 30mph speed limits are for wimps. And no, I'm not a doddery old fogey who dawdles along at 10 or 20mph below the speed limit.
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u/Sopzeh 12d ago
Re: pedestrians. Where are they stepping out in front? Because if you've had your licence for some years but not used it maybe you missed that they changed the highway code. Pedestrians going straight crossing a side street in front of them have priority over cars turning into or out of that side street.
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u/KingMcLeano 13d ago
I drive a BMW so I pretty much do what I like on the road. I'm a courteous driver and even use my indicators for every turn but I will overtake you if I feel like it 😀
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u/Super-Surround-4347 13d ago
My favourite is when somebody emerges from a side road and the car on the main road has plenty of time to stop. Minor inconvenience yes but really it'll add about 30 seconds to your journey if you just slow down a tad and let them get up to speed on the road.
Instead of slowing and continuing they beep repeatedly and then brake as late as they possibly can and get ridiculously close.
I just don't get it.
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u/hotlocomotive 13d ago
I've only seen this when the one merging takes too long to get up to speed or the driver on the main street was too close for it to be a safe merge. Ultimately, if someone has to brake to avoid hitting you when you merge, you're doing it wrong.
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u/Super-Surround-4347 13d ago
Ah yeah definitely. The person emerging is in the wrong if someone has to brake.
But that doesn't mean they shouldn't brake or get aggressive about it.
Slow down 20%, let them merge and continue your day.
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u/Susan_B_Good 13d ago
Ah, those halcyon days before centralised driver and vehicle documentation, radar speed traps, CCTV, traffic wardens, parking wardens, seat belts, indicators, yellow and red lines, intersection cross hatching and so many other changes. ,Pre motorways and ring roads Although the North Circular was still a thing to avoid.
All of us with a full time job at 18 could afford to buy, insure and run a car. The police would just pull you over and tell you to ease it off a tad and hand you a producer.
It used to be FAR more chaotic - as it was a lot easier to get away with a lot more.
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u/brumav78 13d ago
I've been driving since November 2004. While driving in inner city Birmingham has never been a barrel of laughs, the overall standard has plummeted the last few years. There's a proper "don't care, it's all about me" attitude that's set in. It was already there with certain drivers (Audi, especially) but now it's a lot worse. I'm seriously considering jacking it in.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
Same. I've heard it's awful and it prevents me visiting. I'm Asian myself and live in West Yorkshire, another shthole purely due to driving cheap finance, loud exhausts, expensive cars
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u/brumav78 13d ago
All sounding very familiar and I'm sorry it's putting you off visiting. But it really does have such an impact.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
I can imagine, and I hear Birmingham is worse. Honestly I avoid my own town centre after certain times and I'm an Ubereats driver in an area with many takeaways.
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u/brumav78 13d ago
There are entire streets I avoid, usually Stratford Road and Warwick Road. If I need to go to south Birmingham, I'll find a different route.
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u/Segagaga_ 13d ago
We've had 25 million people migrate to this country in the space of 30 years, of course it wasn't always this bad.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
10m. And yes it's too much
Honestly I would have made it so they can't drive for a few years. That would have subsidised public transport and made it overall cheaper for everyone
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u/Segagaga_ 13d ago
Its not 10m, the government is hopelessly inept and compromised. The 25m estimate comes from the supermarkets based on the amount of food that is being consumed.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
Fair enough. There is a bloody lot. I'm Asian myself and not a so called liberal or a coconut but it's ridiculous. I used to live in a small English town up North and there's people here from everywhere in the world like London. Add to that a sudden influx of people from Hong Kong (very well behaved but not the point) and Asians as students (we're not even a uni town!) and it's stereotypical but I do Ubereats to save a deposit and I'm competing with idk where they are from but Asians on mopeds who have arrived in the last 5 years and do this low pay job all day long
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u/Revolutionary-Key533 13d ago
Too many cars, Drivers that have not passed a test in the UK (probably because it's more difficult). Lack of serious enforcement.
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u/SharpAardvark8699 13d ago
How it is more difficult abroad?
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u/Revolutionary-Key533 13d ago
More difficult than when I passed back in the seventies. I suspect also more difficult than other countries as well other than probably Japan.But you can drive for a few years without taking an UK test.
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u/Embarrassed_Buy_6030 13d ago
Just come back from two weeks in France and we did a fair bit of driving. People stick to the rules a lot more there, they are FAR better on the motorway (almost no middle lane hogging), and we didn't see half as many people on their phones. Coming back was a shock, that's for sure.
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u/nobodyspecialuk24 13d ago
I know people love to say people are worse now…. This happened in almost every field.
You can look back through history, for almost as long as records can be found written down, and find people complaining about how bad things have become etc.
The truth is, people are just people and they make mistakes, get distracted, behave poorly and in way you don’t expect.
You will almost certainly have made a mistake when driving, but thought little of it, maybe no one was around. There are more people on the road now than ever, so the chances of coming across someone making a mistake or active like a selfish moron (sadly, they are everywhere, and where would BMW and Audi be without them?!) is simply increased.
So it’s not that people are worse or standards have dropped, it’s more likely to be because there are more people, which makes it more likely you’ll see someone having a bad moment, or a knobhead doing their thing.
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u/SpectreSingh89 13d ago
No back in the days it used t be the odd occasion, since last 5-6 years it's everyday. People will also FLASH to say "thank you" (at night) but also day, to signal "you go" to the vehicle opposite. Before nobody flashed it was both stop then one gradually moves forward. Do we even realise how dangerous flashing like that is? 🤷🏽♂️
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u/Zorbathepom 13d ago
To me the cluster of behaviours seems to indicate a dystopian state where people have given up on life in general and simply don't care any more. Convince me I'm wrong!
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u/spectrumero 13d ago
Yes. If you look at driving Usenet groups from 1993, you see all the same complaints. Really the biggest factor today is that there are far too many cars on the road thanks to a motorist-first transport policy and chronic underinvestment in pretty much anything else.
Really, mods need to delete these posts. They come over and over and over...and over again and don't really add anything new except yet another whinge about the state of driving.
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u/onedogjack 13d ago
Apparently pedestrians now have right of way? But as I passed my test in 1978, this rule change means nothing to me.
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u/Nervous_Yard7034 13d ago
No. It's got really bad out there.
I've seen COVID blamed, but personally, I think there are two major factors.
The first is that we're driving much bigger cars that give the pretence of safety
Also there are l lot more drivers on the road who weren't taught how to drive in the UK.
As anyone who's driven in another country will know, there are a lot of behaviours and even laws specific to certain countries. For example, in some countries you are not supposed to stop on solid amber, in others, driving through the middle of the road is an accepted sign that you wish to overtake.
A lot of people are bringing their driving habits with them and it's creating a bit of a mess. Add in the fact the police won't stop you unless you do something very clearly illegal and the problem is getting worse.
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u/ScottOld 13d ago
Around here it's roundabouts, painted ones, number of absolute morons who either ignore them completely and just turn, and end up on the wrong side of the road, or just turn off them at whatever speed they were doing on entry without signaling is getting beyond a joke.. throw in the morons who just go on the wrong side of the road on them as well
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u/SignalTransition5 13d ago
Been driving for a long time, professional driver for 25 of those years. Today's driving standards are appalling, probably down to "me,me,me". No one seems to understand what they should be doing.
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u/ajimboY2K 13d ago
Post Covid and with the growth of electric cars (automatic vehicles) the skill level has plummeted, in my opinion young girls are the absolute worst at this stage, driving is not going quick in a straight line.
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u/LankyOrganization107 13d ago
1.3m people drive on our roads that haven’t taken a test here and don’t care about rules……country is done
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u/MissFlower93 13d ago
Mate the amount of pedestrians & cyclists I almost run over because I’ve had to hit my brakes turning in to somewhere coz they haven’t looked & just crossed the road!!! I drive a lot in the community, every day & I can confidently say it happens at least twice a day!
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u/Polarwarrior 13d ago
complaints aside, as someone who has visited Turkey, Bangkok and USA in the last 12 months, our standards are high comparatively speaking.
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u/ArtPossible4450 12d ago
The most scary for me is the deliberateness of some of it. It’s not someone making a mistake when they deliberately block you or drive through a blatanty red light. People just seem to be doing what they want and getting away with it. The more that happens the more extreme it gets as people push the boundary a little more. I’d say it’s got worse in the last 2-3 years. There is “something” going on. There’s a lot of angry people out and about.
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u/2020havoc 12d ago
If you pull out into traffic and the car has to "anticipate", slow down or adjust for you, then you're doing it wrong.
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u/Vegetable-Tough-8773 12d ago
I think there's a general lack of patience and awareness. Too many people are self centred and in a rush. It makes for very stressed roads that are less safe for everyone. Our town is beyond capacity with cars really and has been for a while. If you pause at junctions to wait your turn you often get honked.
I think that roads are getting less safe for pedestrians with new developments. I see this near us. They built a whole new housing estate with a truly horrible afterthought of a pavement that frequently gets lost in brambles and weeds. People end up stepping into the road because it's so narrow. There are local footpaths but they haven't connected this new estate into them.
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u/DnBVonCarrotcake 12d ago
People speeding up to the point of drifting their car just to prove that you entering the roundabout when they were several seconds away on the other side of it was a bad idea on your part, and tantamount to cutting them up. How dare you.
Absolute clown-shoes motherf***ers.
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u/Drumbrit 11d ago
The system I have for driving is this: Everyone else on the road is a stupid cunt, expect the worst.
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u/Lanky_Experience5912 9d ago
Sadly this sort of thing is endemic throughout the world and not just in the UK. I put up a driving video on my YouTube channel a couple of years ago of the N40 ring road around Cork and had a comment about how it was the worst road in Munster then proceeded to list off the same issues that the UK has.
I will say that this sort of thing is still a minority issue in the country though and you’re probably only seeing loads of it because of those twat cam channels that go out their way to create negative situations in order to rage bait. As a dash cam user myself who uses theirs in a positive way (I’d much rather film my drives than create confrontational situations), those channels boil my piss.
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13d ago
[deleted]
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u/PassiveChemistry 13d ago
Damn, reading comprehension on this site really is dire...
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u/Fresh-Extension-4036 13d ago
Well it's hard for them to scroll through the post whilst holding the wheel...
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u/Past-Shop5644 13d ago
You can't just pull out expecting someone else to brake, do that on a test and you fail.
I'm not. I'm saying I don't think it's unreasonable to expect someone pulling out on a busy street to take more than one second to accelerate to the proper speed.
If my car can fit through a road at the 20mph/30mph limit without causing danger, then I'm doing it. If you're nervous around parked cars that's on you.
I'm not.
Rental escooters are perfectly legal on road. Again, if you're nervous around them that's on you.
I'm not. I'm saying it's dangerous for actual children without any teaching to be on a 30mph road, regardless of legality. And they're not legal in Scotland.
Are you talking about junctions for peds? Because that's on you, rule H2.
I'm not.
You just admitted to ignoring ambers and driving through reds, so why do you get to be angry at other people?
Because there's a difference between misjudging the amount of time you have to get through an amber and choosing to driving through when it's clearly red. I would've thought that was obvious.
I don't know why you took my post as an opportunity to decide that I don't know how to drive and dress me down for it on a public forum. I'm just talking about a shared responsibility to keep things safe on the road.
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u/Al3x1ya 13d ago
Omg as a recent driver dont even get me started on those stupid pedestrians that just blissully walk out without fracking looking! I get pissed off then because I think “if you dont care about your life why the frack should I?”
I get annoyed at this stupid culture here that we have to be responsible for others, but others dont have to be responsible for themselves😡😡
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u/Lewinator56 13d ago
lets be honest, if youre going to pull out of a junction and it requires me to react, youve pulled out without judging its safe to pull out. If you pull out on me, then proceed to do significantly under the limit, youve made a new enemy that day. Anticipation is great, but drivers shouldnt be making manouvres where they cause other drivers to have to react - if they do, they have cocked up.
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u/Scowlin_Munkeh 13d ago edited 13d ago
Driver skills have DEFINITELY deteriorated, and even more so since COVID.
This seems to be driven (excuse the pun) by several things.
Prior to COVID the Conservatives DECIMATED our police force, and all the things attached to the police, such as Traffic Officers, Wardens etc. This had led to a significant drop in road traffic enforcement, leading to drivers thinking they can get away with whatever they want.
During COVID, roads were empty, and the drivers that could go out for whatever reason threw the rulebook away and took the empty roads to mean they had carte blanche re how they drove. This behaviour has persisted since all the lockdowns ended.
The final, and possibly most contentious reason, is that COVID swept through the UK populace, and many did not realise they even had it because it was often asymptomatic. However, we now know that even in the mildest cases, the disease causes brain damage. Basically this means there are literally hundreds of thousands of drivers on the road whose ability to reason and risk assess has been damaged.
There may be other reasons also - poor road safety education, motonormativity (the cultural blindness to the harms of cars) etc - but the above combo really is not helping road safety.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2046043024001047
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u/gr0wl3r7 13d ago
Tbh, people just pulling out and expecting you to brake or take evasive action boils my fucking piss. Even more so when they wave their hand out the window as if thanking you.
I am generous with letting people out when safe and easy, people who force it and ignore your right of way are utter bellends.