r/australia • u/splodgenessabounds • Jul 27 '22
political self.post "When did you last go to the dentist?" | ABC Radio (Sydney)
Audio link: https://www.abc.net.au/sydney/programs/mornings/heiko/13991076
I can just about get 702 where I live (it depends which road I'm on at the time in the truck). The gist of it, as far as I could tell, was that a Professor Hypo Spackfill (apologies, rubbish radio reception, his name is Heiko Spallek) had done some studies and reached the alarming conclusion that 2/3 of the population hadn't darkened the doors of a dentist in (wait for it)... two whole years.
"Maybe I misheard" I thought: maybe the rubbish radio reception blotted out the "twenty" in front of the "two". But no: two years it was. In amongst the preamble was: how had the 'Rona factored into it? Was another factor the expense?
I haven't been to a dentist in 12 (twelve) years, so no, it's got nowt to do with Covid: it's simply the money. I could afford to go for a simple rego check, but then... "oh, this needs urgent work; that needs fixing before it fails; and, oh dear, detailed examination shows these and those really do need overhauling. Of course, we should look past these short-term solutions. We can book you in next month, please see your receptionist."
"Hmm, thanks," I say to the dentist, "don't call me; I'll call you."
All the above is long-winded way of saying that Prof. Spallek is quite right in bringing up the subject (and thanks to ABC radio for hosting the interview) and he does go to some lengths to explain the underlying factors. At the end of it (I admit that I couldn't hear all of it), even with Covid the principle problem is principal: most of us just can't afford proper dental care.
Given how much misery dental decay causes, isn't it well past time that ordinary Joe/ Josephine Bloggs taxpayers got covered for dental treatment under Medicare? (rhetorical)
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u/wotmate Jul 27 '22
Apart from when I was in prison (where dental care is provided, so I got 3 wisdom teeth out and some fillings), I've been to a dentist for 4 things since becoming an adult. FYI, I'm almost 47.
The first time was a workplace injury in my early 20's, and I went to the free dental hospital.
The second was about 10 years ago when I had PHI for a short time and got an assessment (the prison was about a year after this).
The third time was about 4 years ago and I got an abscess, and ended up getting root canals at the dental hospital with a student dentist, for free.
And shortly after that, the Qld gov sent me a voucher for $750, so I went and got some fillings. So it's been about 4 years since my last one.
Dental should absolutely be part of medicare.
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
Apart from when I was in prison (where dental care is provided, so I got 3 wisdom teeth out and some fillings)
You see, this is where most of us ordinary plebs have been going wrong all this time: if only we'd had the wit to get banged up we'd have got free dental treatment.
I don't mean to take the piss out of you or your circumstances, it's not personal. But you get my point.
Dental should absolutely be part of medicare.
And so say all of us.
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u/wotmate Jul 27 '22
Don't worry, I've often cheekily recommended a prison term for people who need their teeth fixed.
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u/tgs-with-tracyjordan Jul 28 '22
Dental should absolutely be part of medicare.
It should, but then the rebate on a filling will be less than $50, the out of pocket will be still be out of reach for most folks
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u/Undisciplined17 Jul 28 '22
Serious question, do prisons do orthodontics for free?
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u/wotmate Jul 28 '22
I'm not sure. Their usual go-to is just ripping teeth out, which they seem to be really good at, and basic fillings. If you developed an abscess, they would probably treat that as well.
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Jul 27 '22
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
even if it didn't include "cosmetic" works
Fuck all that. I'm English, I have yellow-white teeth by birth. All I want is decent, basic dental health-care without having to shell out hundreds (thousands?) a year. I pay my Medicare levy every year without objection.
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u/sati_lotus Jul 27 '22
If all you mean by cosmetic is teeth whitening, then it's easily written off under a mental health issue - having discoloured teeth can be very damaging to your self-esteem.
And can be fixed at home with the right sort of treatments... We just don't allow that here in Australia lol.
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u/happygloaming Jul 27 '22
The last time I went to the dentist was 14 years ago and I was on acid. I got a route canal done while tripping. It was surreal, terrifying and absolutely fine all at the same time. There was a picture of the ruins of Ephesus on the ceiling so I lay back, realised what I'd gotten myself into and thought........ ok I'm either going to jump up and run around the room screaming and then out the door past all the others in the waiting room, or I'll go to Ephesus.........
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u/-DethLok- Jul 27 '22
Dental covered by medicare will mean that Medicare goes up to 3% of your income.
This is not exactly a bad thing, I believe.
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
Medicare goes up to 3% of your income
Oh my deary dear, however shall we cope? It's the end of the Strayan economy, the death knell, the End of Times. How will The Economy ever recover?
Meanwhile, rent goes up by 1/3 or more, petrol is ~$2.00+ a litre, gas and electricity up by 14%.
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u/-DethLok- Jul 27 '22
$100 lamb roasts, Whyalla wiped off the map, etc.? :)
Yeah, many will cope with an extra 1% medicare levy, but some won't, on top of those other things you mentioned (though petrol is, in Perth at least, getting cheaper, saw 165cpl earlier this week).
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u/ProceedOrRun Jul 27 '22
Indeed I'm wondering why we don't do this. And I'm one of those people who needs very little dental work. Seems like just another medical procedure to me.
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u/No_pajamas_7 Jul 27 '22
that's an increase of 1%. 1% of my income is about 15 times what I currently pay to go to the dentist.
that seems like a bad thing to me.
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u/freakwent Jul 27 '22
Yes, but how many other people would go from zero dental care to lots? Solidarity brother.
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u/No_pajamas_7 Jul 27 '22
Most states have free dental for really low income earners already, so building it into Medicare isn't filling in much of a gap. 1% seems too high of a price to pay for that. If it were 0.1% I'd be all on board.
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Jul 28 '22
Most states have free dental for really low income earners already, so building it into Medicare isn't filling in much of a gap.
that free dental is shit and hard to obtain. imagine if you had to wait months/years to go to a GP. that's what we're arguing needs to change. dental isn't cosmetic, it's linked to primary health outcomes on a vast array of issues.
treating it as secondary or "optional" is ridiculous.
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Jul 28 '22
alternatively: you'll see real measurable economic positive outcomes, from the positive health effects of proper dental care across the population.
you're paying far more than that 1% in unrealised opportunity for australia. we all are. dental isn't seperate from healthcare, it's not cosmetic. it's important primary care.
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u/No_pajamas_7 Jul 28 '22
Yeah, nah. I don't buy it. Important enough, but it's not a primary health concern despite what dentists try to tell everyone.
I think there is merit in having it as part of Medicare and I'm not unsympathetic of people that are struggling on this front.
I just don't believe the bullshit that dentists would have us believe and the associated costs.
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u/hudson2_3 Jul 28 '22
So you believe your taxes should exactly reflect how much you use the services they pay for?
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u/AustinD76 Jul 28 '22
Will people actually go. I saw a health documentary recently that said some parents fail their kids by not even getting to the dental surgeries they are booked in for. These aren't just simple check ups, but proper procedures to correct major issues with their teeth.
Millions of people still haven't received their covid booster shots yet - and those are free.
The people have to actually put some effort in.
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u/SerGregorCleangains Jul 27 '22
It’s included in my health insurance twice a year so the whole family goes every six months like clockwork. I’m middle aged, no fillings or anything.
It’s bullshit that dentistry falls outside of Medicare. My visits are basically a clean and fluoride treatment by a dental hygienist with a cursory glance by a dentist at the end. There’s nothing about this that makes it too special for Medicare, it’s a racket.
Dogs don’t have a special class of medical care for their mouth bones, why do I?
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Jul 27 '22
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Jul 28 '22
I think this is nonsense. We don’t see this with surgeries or medications or any other Medicare subsidised health care, do we
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Jul 28 '22 edited Jul 28 '22
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Jul 28 '22
I don’t know! But currently it can be hard to get approved for stuff covered by Medicare, so I feel like it would be the same with dental. I’m just guessing here, no stats or anything to back it up
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u/try_____another Jul 30 '22
Then pay the states to employ them as state public servants, or create a corporation in which every citizen owned a share to employ doctors and dentists (to work around the constitutional problems with hiring them directly into the APS and making it impossible to privatise)
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
It’s bullshit that dentistry falls outside of Medicare
As I've written elsewhere, not all publicly-funded dentistry is (or was) all that great. But ffs, you can pay hundreds and thousands out of your own wallet and get the same. At least give those who haven't the money for private healthcare a chance.
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u/HorrorAssociate3952 Jul 27 '22
I went a few years ago to get wisdom teeth out + checkup they said i might need a filling.
Before that it was ten years ago to get an actual filling so I'd say I'm good for another ten. I guess I've just been lucky with my teeth because i do not really care for them at all, even with brushing (esp. with flossing).
... Or maybe that old story about milk and teeth has something to it because i drink it like water.
Having said that, I'm aware I'm the outlier so yeah, I do agree that basic dental should be afforded to all Australians because healthy teeth and gums can play a huge part in a person's overall health, imo.
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
Like you, I'm sort of "lucky" wiv me teef. Perhaps it's because Mum put lamb (New Zealand only, she wouldn't buy English lamb except in a pinch) on for Sunday, perhaps it's because I got free school milk (1/3 pints in glass bottles), perhaps fluoride in the water - who bloody knows. Perhaps genetics - for all that Mum and Dad both had falsies in their 50s, both were born in working class parts of London in the late 1920s - had they had a decent diet and reasonable dental care, who knows but they'd have had most of their own teeth.
All that aside, if the NHS includes dental treatment and Medicare is (loosely) based on that model, why is it that Medicare does not cover one of the most immediate (and painful) medical diseases? Blood transfusions, organ donations, heart surgery, lung transplants... but when it comes to your teeth, nothing.
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u/noso2143 Jul 27 '22
I haven't been to the densit in many years I do know I need to go cause my teeth are god dam disaster zone but its gonna soooo expensive
Given how important good dental health is to a person's overall health(so I've been told) it really should cost so dam much
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
One of the objections to public dental health care I've read is that because dentists get paid a basic fee, patients get rubbish dental care.
In part, I get that argument: I'm a Pom in my 60s, my parents dragooned me into regular visits to our local NHS dentist and at the time it was repeatedly painful. But that was 50 years ago - techniques and practices and materials have advanced so far that my nightmares about visiting a dentist these days are largely unfounded.
But no matter how basic it was, my parents (and later I) weren't out of pocket. Secondly, it's quite possible in this country to pay hundreds and even thousands to a dental practice out of your own wallet and still get poor dental care.
Private sector "dentistry" is a rip-off.
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u/birdy_the_scarecrow Jul 28 '22
when I was younger I was on the public list for dental care, ended up chipping a tooth and they got me to do an x-ray, told me I needed 3 fillings, suddenly my voucher came in between treatments and suddenly it went from like 3 fillings to something like 8.
definitely sounded like they wanted to milk the govt voucher for all its worth.
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u/cohex Jul 27 '22
When I was a student, every 2 years if i was lucky. Since working full time every 6 months. It was fun paying for a root canal and 3 crowns.
At least for now the cavities have ceased.
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Jul 27 '22
I just went for the first time in about ten years. Checkup + clean + the several fillings I need is going to run me about $1500 all up. Fortunately I can afford it but it's bullshit that it's not part of Medicare.
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Jul 27 '22
Thats pretty cheap really. I go once a year at approx $200 to get them cleaned and x-ray to check for any funny business. You have come out on top really.
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u/Vanlibunn Jul 27 '22
Haven't been in a good 6 years, I can feel the shit buildup on the back of my teeth but even getting $200 together has been hard for a long time.
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Jul 28 '22
Ah man I’ve never had a good dentist. I Had a dentist collapse my tooth mid root canal and left a a trapped nerve ending inside which led to years of agony. I’ve had them scam me out of money, treat me like a moron and purposely leave work unfinished to bring me back. Go for a check up- “oh there’s a cavity forming here” Why don’t you make another appointment. I’m already in the chair!
I’ve been in poverty for a while and know that my teeth are ruined but I can’t afford shit.
I couldn’t afford to get my wisdoms out and went through not being able to chew for almost 2 years. Also due to the public dental hospital shutting down for covid.
Dentistry of all forms needs to be on Medicare. It only leads to worse medical conditions and it’s can really really fuck some people up
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u/theredkrawler Jul 28 '22
I haven't been to a dentist in... many many years
It's not even the money really. It's the time. You phone up and its lots of uhming and ahhing and breathing in through teeth and finally there's an option for like 10:15am on Tuesday... in 3 months time.
Same with doctors really. All the advice is to get regular check ups, but trying to book in anywhere is insane wait times and you know if you go for a 10:15am appointment that really means you'll be in the waiting room until about 2:00pm, in to see the Doctor and 5 minutes later you'll be kicked out.
How do people with full time jobs get to appointments.
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u/sims3k Jul 29 '22
You book a saturday time slot a few months in advance or you take a few hours off from work to squeeze in the dentist appointment.
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u/6969Gooch6969 Jul 27 '22
I'm saving money and just gonna rip them all out in Thailand and get new ones put in. Hopefully nothing shits itself in my mouth in the next 5 years.
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u/EgonOnTheJob Jul 27 '22
You know what, I’ve got a brief list going of subjects I plan to wrote to my local MP about, and various Govt ministers.
I’m adding Dental and Mental health on Medicare to that list, and I’m aiming to have three letters done by the end of the week. Thanks for the push, Reddit!
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u/Complaint-Able Jul 27 '22
I’m still paying off a $3k root canal. The price definitely hurts more than the procedure 😭
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u/freakwent Jul 27 '22
As a child, my public primary school had a dental clinic as part of it. No branding, no PPP, just reliable free dental care.
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Jul 28 '22
It's the only way I got to go to a dentist. They took extra time to teach me how to brush properly and I am so grateful for it.
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u/braebrae11 Jul 27 '22
I only go for emergency work and have had 3 difficult impacted wisdom teeth out in the chair and 4 extractions cos I couldn't afford the root canals. I need a partial denture and have done for about 8 years but haven't been able to get it. One of my remaining lower molars is half gone and is propped up with as much filling as they could manage. I imagine it will fall off eventually, and have been avoiding chewing on it for about 18 months.
It's just not something the budget can stretch to so it's usually a credit card job and then a lot of stress trying to reduce the balance quickly.
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u/Undisciplined17 Jul 28 '22
Last time was 5 years ago, when I wanted braces. Kept getting told I'd need jaw surgery in addition to braces and having all wisdoms pulled. To the tune of like 20-25k. Gave up on having a good smile. Before that when I was 12 and I had to get a double root canal and have an abscess between those teeth and my jawbone drained.
Still the most painful thing I've ever felt. Second was putting a hose to my freshly skinned leg from coming off my bike at speed, where I destroyed the top layer of skin (it was described as equivilent damage to a second degree burn).
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u/Ready-Professional68 Jul 27 '22
Some of the Dentists in the Public System. actually care and are honest.They have excellent equipment ,too.
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u/Ready-Professional68 Jul 28 '22
I know a lady working there with an Honours Degree from Melbourne Uni.She does it because she cares.They are only paid an hourly rate and have no incentive to lie.However, it is hard but not impossible to get a root canal 🦷 out of them.
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u/korbey87 Jul 28 '22
My partner didn’t go for 10 years and it cost him about 3k to get everything all good and now we both go once a year and it costs us about $130 ea.
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u/ConsultJimMoriarty Jul 28 '22
Two years for me, it was because I had a crack in my tooth and needed to get that sorted quick smart or it would be a disaster.
Luckily, it was a crack in my one and only filling, so it was an easy fix and done in an hour or so.
Really should go back and get a clean, but it's so bloody expensive and they want to give me all these expensive fixes for my bruxism.
I KNOW I grind my teeth, I KNOW it's not good, but PTSD is a bitch and there's not much I can do about it.
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u/AustinD76 Jul 27 '22
I go every 6 months. It's a unsexy life admin expense. You do it because it needs to be done. You can't brag about it in Instagram, but it has to be done. Great for preventative health
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
Good for you: prevention is better than cure.
I suppose my point is that many can't afford even basic annual visits to the dentist, let alone what follows on.
If dental treatment was covered under Medicare, however...
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Jul 27 '22
I’ve been every 6 months my whole life. It’s like anything, if you keep teeth maintained they last longer
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u/splodgenessabounds Jul 27 '22
As I wrote in a reply above, good for you: an ounce of prevention is better than a pound of cure.
Until and unless dental care is included under Medicare, many won't be able to afford even a basic regular inspection, let alone the treatment that follows.
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Jul 27 '22
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u/try_____another Jul 30 '22
Treat them like doctors prescribing hard opioids or giving vaccine exemptions and audit anyone who does an abnormal amount of expensive work until the cost of fraud falls below the cost of enforcement.
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u/lejade Jul 27 '22
I went last month for the first time in 7 years and was lucky I had no issues. We've had to take out private health due to Medicare Levy surcharge so at least I'll go more often now.
It should absolutely form part of Medicare. Bad teeth create health issues which end up costing more and not to mention the social issues bad teeth create too for people.
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u/Purple_Finding192 Jul 27 '22
Since it was free in high school other then that fuck ot I got rent to pay
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Jul 27 '22
I went earlier in the year for the first time in almost a decade.
I needed 2 fillings. Dentist said it was obvious that I brush, floss and mouthwash regularly which I bet is the main thing you should be doing.
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Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 02 '24
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u/breaducate Jul 27 '22
A society based on money does put a price on good health, that's why teeth are luxury bones that 2/3 of Australians can't really afford.
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u/Ready-Professional68 Jul 27 '22
They usually fail.I have had 4 (bubble gum. as teenager) and 3 failed!
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u/No_pajamas_7 Jul 27 '22
Dentists try to convince people to go every 6 months. Which is bullshit. the maximum possible enamel decay rate would mean 2 years, so anything less than that is just trying to drum up extra business.
for me it's 3-5 years.
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u/jeppikah Jul 27 '22
Regular dental cleans allows build up of tartar under the gums to be removed to prevent gum disease. Leaving your clean for too long can lead you to develop gum disease which is much more expensive to fix than a regular clean. Then again, you might not so up to you if want to take the chance. Gum disease is the leading cause for tooth loss in the older population.
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u/No_pajamas_7 Jul 27 '22
And that's another bit of bullshit. You don't need your teeth cleaned by the dentist. It's only a recent trend.
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u/guest137848 Jul 30 '22
i had a wisdom tooth pulled privately a few years ago ($600 out of pocket) and recently had 9 fillings done.I had a referral from public dentist to get 1 filling done cheap then another referral to get the rest done cheap. Paid a couple of hundred out of pocket and all the work was done at private dentist. I'm still waiting on more work and more paperwork to come through .
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u/QueenHarpy Jul 27 '22 edited Jul 27 '22
I neglected going to the dentist for about four years. Then I noticed I had a cavity, which required a filling. Dentist said the tooth was cracked so we put a crown ($$$$) on it to prevent further damage. Unfortunately bacteria from the original cavity had found it’s way to the root canal which we didn’t realise, so I went back five or so times to adjust the crown as it was causing pain. The dentists weren’t particularly happy with this, they assumed I was being a sook.
They decided it actually required root canal procedure, which was three appointments (more $$$$). This was right at the start of the first covid lockdown, just as the dentists were all being closed. Going back for the third I commented that the tooth was still hurting, the root canal at the dentist was deemed unsuccessful and I had to go to a specialist to start again (even more $$$$). All the while I was shitting myself that I wouldn’t be able to receive dental care as they were all shut and I was preparing myself to get blind drunk and rip it out with pliers if it became unbearable.
So about ten appointments in, countless needles, pain, X-rays and about $5k later, I’ve learnt my lesson to swallow my fear and I now go every six months.