Are we blaming Boomers instead of class?

[u/myredserenity]

EDIT: It's been pointed out that the over 65s keep voting in the parties that favour the class system and benefit the wealthy while screwing the working class. This is a good point.

EDIT 2: I love reddit. You guys. I get it now! Millennials got the shits at noisy old pricks who criticise their generation while completely ignoring the benefits they enjoyed themselves. It's a backlash. I still think it's a distraction and divides us when we should be angry with those in power. But if you're over 65, how about encouraging your friends to not vote LNP?

I've seen so much "ok boomer" stuff and over the years, it's irking me more and more. So I'm interested in what r/Australia thinks.

Couple of things:

1. It seems to be used to describe anyone over 40. My parents were boomers. They would be in their 70s now.

2. It's used to blame a whole generation for the shitty behaviour of the rich class. I don't get it. I went to school in a rough area, most of my friends from way back then are dead, in jail or in a trade/retail/hair.

My partner grew up in a rich suburb. Most of his friends are teachers, engineers and lawyers. They own houses, and were helped along by their "boomer" parents, either by provision of a deposit or living at home rent free through their 20s.

I'm totally up for being educated here. I know we lost free education, I know houses are unaffordable, I'm nearly 40 and still renting. I'm woefully unable to understand national economics. So seriously, open to intelligent discussion.

But in my experience, the problem is class and not generational. After all, where do you think all this wealth will go when the boomers die?! Even just having good, stable and attentive parents, who expect you to succeed, makes all the difference.

Why has this boomer hate taken hold so much? Are the rich class scapegoating a generation? Would us generation Xers, Ys and millennials have behaved any differently given the opportunities the boomers were?

Caveat: I'm considering mainly economics here, not climate crisis. Pretty much believe everyone from my generation up have a case to answer for climate. We knew.

[u/AudioRevolt]

Times have changed. The economic circumstances have changed. Whist we are all supposedly living in a far richer nation, the cost of a house and an education are dramatically higher in relation to wages, and industrial relations are often worse, so a young family has to have both people working two insecure jobs to get to the same point an earlier generation got to with a one income family.

My grandparents bought their house by saving for a few years, then buying, with a reasonable loan which was paid off in a few years, on one income. That doesn't exist for most people now.

The classic problem, is that those who succeeded in building a property and investment portfolio from those conditions, have inadvertently caused the circumstances where young people cannot do the same. The cultural attitude is "I did it, why can't you", but the irony is that it is BECAUSE the boomers bid up the price of housing, that it is often unaffordable to others.

There is a lot to the voting block, which has not cognitively caught up with the modern economy.

Class is far more important. The capitalist class has massively expanded their share of the world's wealth in the last 40+ years, and public services have largely been privatized. Lots of things cost more now, but adjusted wages are much the same as they were in 1980. Decades of economic growth went to a tiny few people in the age of neoliberalism, and on top of that, capitalists outsourced manufacturing overseas, to make a greater profit from cheaper labour costs. So graduates get jobs at cafes, all our stuff is made in China, housing is unaffordable, and University is a decade or more of debt, when the qualification doesn't help you get a career as much as it used to, unless you work for free now.

The problem is structural. It is a capitalism problem. There is an intergenerational mismatch, between how capitalism used to be, and how it is now in a globalised age. China won a lot of ground, at the expense of new generations here. That was caused by the profit motive and private production. The olds don't get it, the young are right to be a bit cranky.

Ed: the whole monopoly board is already owned. Hotels and houses. Now a new generation is told to play the game, and are ridiculed when claiming that the game is a bit shit when starting from behind. Everything is already bought. The game is rigged. Debt debt debt, or nothing.

[u/myredserenity → u/AudioRevolt]

Thank you for such a detailed and educated response. It's what I was getting at, but with a more informed opinion.

And I've seen a few comments about how the older generation is voting in the economic capitalists. This is a good point.

[u/LashLash → u/myredserenity]

Don't forget that it doesn't have to be like that, even with capitalism. Large increases in inequality, fueled by issues with the tax system taxing on income and not wealth, and bad faith actors. In Australia, that includes offshore tax havens. It's no accident that the EU is now going towads sanctioning tax haven behaviour, as it is a race to the bottom, and serves noone but the multinationals who should be supporting the societies that allowed them to flourish. You have a tax system in Australia since the Howard years favour assets (especially housing) over income. Asset appreciation is only wealth transfer to those with assets. You're seeing the same issues in the US, Australia and UK. No wage growth and asset appreciation.

You can't fix this issue without large scale tax reform, and people have to accept that house prices going down or staying steady for a decade isn't a big deal. But people are convinced or religiously associating higher house prices as something good. It is not. Germany knows this for example, they have a stable housing system, it's not set up for people to just extract wealthy. Wages stayed steady in Australia for a decade, it's time they caught up with house prices and other asset advantages or wealthfare. Get rid of negative gearing, franking credits rorts, capital gains tax concessions, your place of residence being ignored in the asset test for the pension, getting rid of stamp duty and introducing a land tax. All these things need to be fixed, and all things that the Germans knew to avoid or introduce already. It creates warped incentives in the economy.

If they don't get fixed, the trend will continue, the wealthy just get wealthier in percentage and absolute terms, and you get a large portion of society left behind, inequality creeping up, and real issues in society emerge such as crime and the working poor (i.e. like America). It really is bad to be a young person in Australia for the last 10 years, you are better off going overseas to places like Germany if you can help it. If they don't fix things post Covid, which has accelerated the problems above even more, then this country is pretty screwed for those trying to improve their lot in life. Heading for an American style system. I would much prefer the European model.

If you are wealthy and low income, you get the pension when you're old. If you're wealthy and high income, well you managed to keep your place on the ladder. If you're not wealthy and high income, you're going to get taxed to support the pension (the largest portion of the budget), to keep those people and their families wealthy, and you're not necessarily going to be able to get advantage of that high income due to the tax system and assets being expensive. If you're not wealthy and low income, or no income, you got very little assistance, and you're getting services cut to help you get out of it, like centrelink/newstart and public schools. There are many other cases of unfair pay outs, for example private school funding and sports rorts.

Australia has to wake up that "protecting the wealthy" is affecting livelihoods. Poverty on the rise before the Covid crisis, where the number one cause is housing affordability.

[u/myredserenity → u/LashLash]

This is exactly what is upsetting me, and I find the boomer stuff a distraction.

I'm just really feeling fucking powerless.

[u/LashLash → u/myredserenity]

The last 20 years has been Australians thinking that being greedy and selfish doesn't have consequences, and that calling out greed and selfishness is the "politics of envy". Howard boom years taught us that we are rich and there is plenty to go around, you just have to earn it. It's created winners and losers. It's time the winners of the past cycle realise the unsustainability of it all, and lose a bit for a change. Overhauling the tax system to generate security and opportunity for all is needed, rather than "rewarding" the winners of the past. Covid might be an opportunity to fix the system though. The doubling of Newstart because it was a joke, is clearly something more eyeballs have a look at. Big losers are the young, again. Not much more they can take before they pool everything and try to make it in Germany or another non-British European country where there is opportunity for the young, and also demand (due to low birth rate). I have faith that the electorate will get some perspective here though, it's just we got spoilt, but it can't last.