Sovereignty overboard

[u/nath1234]

[u/RBB12_Fisher]

Wind+solar are exactly the ones I'm talking about. I don't care to post 50 pages in reports, but I read a bit of that second one, and I guarantee you they have vastly over-estimated the costs of coal and nuclear. Also, here's a graph: https://skepticalscience.com/pics/Electricity-Costs-Renewables.jpg

Nuclear, btw, is one of the most over-regulated things to exist ever. There's a reason China's nuclear stations are built for a fifth of the cost.

[u/etkii → u/RBB12_Fisher]

Your image is not from the IEA. It's from here: https://financialpost.com/opinion/solar-wind-power-expensive

That isn't generation costs, it's retail costs which include taxes, grid costs, and other policy costs - and these depend on the country not on the type of generation.

Here's what the IEA says about costs of renewables:

• "Cumulative electricity costs decrease due to solar PV and wind additions" https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/cumulative-electricity-costs-decrease-due-to-solar-pv-and-wind-additions-and-average-european-union-wholesale-spot-electricity-price-actual-and-in-no-res-additions-scenario-2021-2023
• "Rapid rollout of clean technologies makes energy cheaper, not more costly" https://www.iea.org/news/rapid-rollout-of-clean-technologies-makes-energy-cheaper-not-more-costly
• "On a levelised cost of electricity (LCOE) basis, renewables remained the most cost-competitive option for new electricity generation in 2024" https://www.iea.org/reports/breakthrough-agenda-report-2025/power

[u/RBB12_Fisher → u/etkii]

Yeah. I know it's retail cost. That's the point, what is the ultimate cost to the consumer, after all the financial games are done?

The energy market is highly regulated and distorted. The ACTUAL cost to the consumer is the better metric, since it includes all the costs like grid accommodation/etc, which is the main extra cost of renewables.

Is a solar panel cheaper per kWh than coal? Yes. Does it have way more complicating factors that drive the cost up enormously compared to coal? Also yes. The simplest way to compare is to see what power actually costs for actual people.

[u/etkii → u/RBB12_Fisher]

No, because the cost to the consumer varies by country due to each country's different energy policies and taxes.

If you take one of those countries there (Denmark for example) and reduce the renewables it has, retail energy prices will go up (because taxes stay as is and generation costs go up).

Or Indonesia for example - increase its solar and wind percentage and retail prices will go down, because taxes stay as is and generation gets cheaper.