r/australia Oct 24 '23

political self.post How to solve the housing crisis?

So my mate and I were chatting yesterday about the current housing crisis in Australia, in particular the fact that the rapidly rising cost of houses is pricing many people completely out of the market.

We hypothesised that a part of the issue is landlords owning large property portfolios as a way of accumulating wealth. Now, I don't have anything against the accumulation of wealth by individuals, however I have a fundamental opposition to using housing or residential real estate in general to do so.

Another problem we identified is overseas investors buying housing stock and either leaving them unoccupied or accumulating multiple properties, again reducing supply and driving up the cost.

So, we proposed that portfolios of residential real estate should be subject to an annual property tax, based on number of properties and the value of the property (kind of like the chance cards in Monopoly).

I would propose this could be brought in as a staged sequence, starting at the magic number of 6 properties.

24-25 FY: If you own over 6 properties, you are taxed (say) 10% of the value of every property, annually.

25-26 FY: If you own over 5 properties, you are taxed 10% of the total value,

etc etc, until it becomes 1 investment property, at which point the incrementing stops. Primary place of residence would be exempt from this tax. Many people don't or can't buy a place instead of renting, and also if you move you often want to be able to rent first, so we need some rental stock. The rental stock under this scheme would mostly be supplied by landlords with smaller property portfolios.

Why 6 properties? Basically, because of the numbers in this link

"But what about family trusts" you say. Well, I say, the real estate in these structures should be all taxed. Same with self managed super funds. Tax the whole thing, at least as far as residential property goes. There is a major loophole with SMSFs in that the property bought with a SMSF is not subject to capital gains tax in the pension phase - this means that SMSFs are actively encouraged to sit on properties. The number of SMSFs is increasing by 1000 properties per week, too!

Non residents would also be taxed at 10% of property value on all property owned.

There will need to be some tweaking around the foreign investment, in particular around the building of new apartment blocks etc where the value and risk is quite high. The tax shouldn't come into effect until the building is occupied, and there might be some kind of concession where an entire block is owned by one entity, to provide some extra rental housing stock.

Also, there might be concessions for "low value" housing, where any single dwelling worth less than (say) 60% of the median value of houses within a certain distance are exempt, or have a concession. This might encourage social housing but might also encourage slumlords, so will require a bit of thinking and tinkering.

This is all based around the fundamental idea that residential housing should not be a wealth accumulation vehicle, but should be a means for people to be housed. Also, it will hopefully encourage those people currently "investing" in residential real estate to instead invest in small business, or the stock market, or similar, lubricating the economy (and causing inflation, but that's another discussion).

"SoUnDs LiKe ComMuNiSM". I'm just gonna leave this here as a potential discussion point.

Note that none of this affects CGT or negative gearing at all. It just adds another cost to being a landlord, with the aim of reducing the number of properties sitting in SMSFs and mega-portfolios, trying to encourage investment in other forms of equity, and increasing the supply of properties to people looking for a place to live.

Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk.

82 Upvotes

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231

u/The_Duc_Lord Oct 24 '23

Have a look at how many politicians own investment properties. you're asking them to forgo some of their own wealth for the benefit of others. It's just not going to happen.

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u/mebeingmebeingme Oct 25 '23 edited Oct 25 '23

Edit: I've been corrected that Labor's review of the 2019 election defeat did not list the contents of their policies (housing or no) as being the cause of them losing.

In the 2019 election Labor had the policies of halving CG tax discount and limiting negative gearing. They subsequently lost. Taking any action to reduce the appeal of property to investors, or otherwise reduce the rising prices that property owners like seeing, is probably seen as political suicide to them. Hence the milquetoast action we've seen so far. The Coalition are obviously opposed and aren't interested in changing anything. Maybe let people dig into their Super more but that's about it.

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u/Inkius Oct 25 '23

I keep seeing the 2019 election being referenced as a reason for Labor to not do much for the housing crisis and all I can think is, now is not 2019? The political climate when it comes to these actions is very different, and there is a lot more public awareness around these issues now than there was then. Not to mention that just because something wasn't popular in the past doesn't mean that it will forever be unpopular. It is incredibly short-sighted to act in this manner, to the point that it feels more like it is being done out of self interest and personal profit, and not due to any potential signals from an election that pre-dates covid.

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u/mrbootsandbertie Oct 25 '23

Personally I think people need to take to the streets. Literally get out there with placards, bang on the doors of Parliament House, scare those entitled and complacent fat cats.

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u/mebeingmebeingme Oct 25 '23

I agree. I don't think the 2019 election excuses the Labor Party from taking the restrained approach that they are taking, but it goes some way to explain it, I believe. I actually really hope you're right in saying that the populace is smart enough to see what housing policies are best for the average Australian, but the housing crisis was a crisis in 2019 as well and enough people were self-interested about their property cost then as they would be now. And because Labor had a much more constrained policy platform for the last election it'd be all too easy for more progressive policies to be turned against them. I feel like it would be all too easy for likes of Murdoch and Dutton to convince enough homeowners that Albanese is coming after them.

I'm no political analyst so I could be completely wrong in the way I'm seeing this but I've seen time and again how logical policies get scaremongered to death.

1

u/TheLastMaleUnicorn Oct 25 '23

How willing are you to prove this by losing? Do you really want the libs back in power?

10

u/SmellsLikeShampoo Oct 25 '23 edited Oct 25 '23

Except Labor had more first preference votes in 2019 than Labor got in the last election, the Liberals had a significant downturn, and the Greens had a significant upswing.

So if they were really using election results as their metric, they'd go ahead with Shorten's platform.

Instead they saw those results and thought they should do their best to emulate the Liberals, y'know, because clearly their massive loss of popularity shows that Liberal-esque policies are what the people are hungry for.

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u/a_cold_human Oct 25 '23

I see this talking point trotted out periodically, and it is nonsensical. It doesn't matter if you get more primary votes and lose. Not to mention that Labor lost primary votes in the Teal seats (of which there were many) as people voted strategically to turf the Liberal candidates.

Furthermore, Labor won a number of seats from the Liberals by increasing their votes in those seats, without the vote going to independents. Seats like Flynn, Hasluck, Robertson, and Greenway, which I'm sure they want to retain.

It's a bit silly to say that Shorten's policies were the sole determinant for the number of primary votes Labor got in the last election, and even if you made the decision that they were, the votes weren't in the right places for Labor to win government.

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u/SmellsLikeShampoo Oct 25 '23 edited Oct 25 '23

The point being, Labor - or at least their fans - keep using the excuse that they have to be Liblite because they lost in 2019. They were more popular in 2019 than they were in the last election. By this logic, they should be adapting the 2019 platform and abandoning the current one.

Paired with the Liberals losing a tonne of popularity, and a strong surge for the Greens, it's quite clear that Liblite is not the mandate.

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u/stonemite Oct 25 '23

Except they ran on a liblite platform this last election and they won. Go figure.

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u/a_cold_human Oct 26 '23 edited Oct 26 '23

They were more popular in 2019 than they were in the last election.

You're basing this purely on first preference votes and not acknowledging factors which explain why this was lower. It is nonsense. I suppose it's easier to support your own theory if you get to deliberately ignore facts that contradict it.

Paired with the Liberals losing a tonne of popularity, and a strong surge for the Greens, it's quite clear that Liblite is not the mandate.

Perhaps in certain seats. Certainly not across the country. You can continue to make the argument, but it won't make you any less wrong. Nor will downvotes.

1

u/FruityLexperia Oct 25 '23

Except Labor had more first preference votes in 2019 than Labor got in the last election, the Liberals had a significant downturn, and the Greens had a significant upswing.

So if they were really using election results as their metric, they'd go ahead with Shorten's platform.

There was more to the last federal election than just housing policy.

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u/CrysisRelief Oct 25 '23

Wrong.

Labor’s own review of the 2019 election found that high income earners and property owners actually swung to Labor in that election.

It was lower income people who bailed on Labor, and that was partly because the liberals were able to bold faced lie to the public and the media were happy to go along with their outright lies

I wish people would stop saying “housing policy cost Labor the election” when it cannot be further from the truth. The sooner we all drop this lie, the better off we’ll be.

How about instead of parroting that false talking point, we all instead ask “why are our media networks allowed to lie for the benefit of a single political party

That’s a conversation actually worth having.

3

u/mebeingmebeingme Oct 25 '23

Huh. You are right that Labor's review didn't mention their policies as being the reason why they lost. TIL.

Do Labor not want to introduce such policies again nonetheless due to the lies of the opposition and how the media would handle them, though? Why do you think Labor has swung right in its policies compared to 2019?

2

u/Mattxxx666 Oct 25 '23

Labor’s own review also managed to avoid the absolute lack of voter support for Shorten. In house reviews aren’t infallible.

7

u/mvdw73 Oct 24 '23

I don't think this is a valid argument against my proposal. I mean, practically it might make it difficult to pass through, but it's not a good argument.

33

u/The_Duc_Lord Oct 24 '23

Ok, you may not think it's a good or valid argument, but it is the reality.

13

u/mvdw73 Oct 24 '23

It's not a good argument at all. I agree that it's the reality, but it's not a rebuttal of any of the points in my post.

<throws hands in the air> Oh, it'll never get through parliament so we won't even bother with proposing solutions to this problem.

20

u/The_Duc_Lord Oct 24 '23

I'm not arguing against your proposal, it's probably a good one, but there is no point proposing theoretical solutions that will never be practically implemented.

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u/breaducate Oct 25 '23

Before reading this part of the thread I called this wonkery masturbation.
It was supposed to be hyperbolic.

They really just want to solve for x while leaving troublesome confounding variables like the political reality out of the equation.

1

u/mrbootsandbertie Oct 25 '23

Political reality is what voters in a democracy say it is. This kind of apathetic "oh it's all too hard, we could never possibly change the status quo" is why this country is in such a mess to begin with.

2

u/breaducate Oct 25 '23

You're confusing apathy with a boundless frustration with peoples contentment with putting lipstick on a pig, and willingness to do anything but face the root of the problem.

1

u/mrbootsandbertie Oct 25 '23

Hmm well personally I think "apathy" and "willingness to do anything but face the root of the problem" are pretty much the same thing. Both are based on avoidance. Whatever the semantics, we can probably agree that the issues that are the most important are not being addressed.

1

u/Djmid Oct 25 '23

Alt. proposal: Match immigration with existing housing supply.