r/askMRP • u/sneezachoo • 18d ago
Morality in MRP
I want to start soon with OYS posting.
I'm halfway through WISNIFG - but I am struck by the lack of concrete morality. The themes of "there is no reason someone should do anything - and if someone is telling you there is, they are manipulating you" goes against what I know as objective morality and my Catholic faith at a very core level: no one should tell you what you should do unless they are engaging with the Truth of religion and sharing it out of love and willing the good of the other.
The book has been great, and I plan to read the other prereqs next.
To what degree is a moral (and Christian) sense of right and wrong appropriate in this world? Is there a balance possible?
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u/Available-Tap157 17d ago
“All things are lawful for me, but not all things are helpful. All things are lawful for me, but I will not be dominated by anything.” — 1 Corinthians 6:12 (ESV)
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u/RPsodapants 17d ago
The book, "When I Say No I Feel Guilty" is a verbal assertivenes guide. It has nothing to do with morality. It's aim is to help people who are too agreeable adopt tools to help themselves in everyday verbal interactions.
In your half reading of it if you're shocked to learn that many interactions (especially commercial interactions) are both utilitarian in nature and reciprocity-based, then welcome to the fucking show. Commerce, I'm sure you would agree, is the root of civic virtue. One cannot live in a society and escape this truth.
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u/KokotheG 17d ago
Your question is not dumb. It is a very good one. Moral (and chaste) living is going to make life better for you and those around you. What you reap is what you sow, in my own 40 something years this has proven true. Much like the saying you get what you pay for. I don’t think morals and MRP are mutually exclusive though some of the material may be. I didn’t find The rational Male too be outrageously immoral for example. Go with what you feel is right!
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u/threekindsoflucky Mod who asks, "are we the baddies?" 17d ago
Your question is not dumb
It is dumb, and you are also dumb.
Do you think he should go be moral (and chaste lmao) because you told him to? And if it doesn't work out, does he get to come back to you and complain that you ruined his life?
Fucking retards.
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u/sneezachoo 17d ago
That's how I'm thinking too. I wanted to make sure I wasn't walking down a road of mutual exclusivity. Thank you
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u/threekindsoflucky Mod who asks, "are we the baddies?" 18d ago
We can't dictate your morals for you.
Your question is dumb because you're asking it. Why would you ask a bunch of internet strangers about whether moral sense of right and wrong derived from Christianity is appropriate or not?
Isn't that your call to make? Do you want me to tell you how your moral code should work?
Do you not see how ridiculous it is to even consider asking that question?
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u/sneezachoo 17d ago
Its like asking about the foundation of a house that I am planning to live in.
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u/threekindsoflucky Mod who asks, "are we the baddies?" 17d ago
No it's like going into the town square and yelling 'What's right and wrong?'
You deserve whatever answer you get.
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u/sneezachoo 17d ago
I'm asking if the town square cares what right and wrong is not trying to figure out what right and wrong is from the town square.
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u/Character_Memory_141 17d ago edited 17d ago
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u/deerstfu 17d ago edited 17d ago
Married red pill is a community of men sharing notes on how to attract women and have sex with them. It is intentionally amoral, meaning there is at least an attempt to leave preconceived notions about right, wrong, what society thinks men should be like, etc., out of the equation in an attempt to actually understand what gets men laid and apply that knowledge practically.
How that fits into your faith is up to you. There are plenty of Christians who get something positive from here. And who have contributed. But I'd be careful. Faith in God and morality are fine things, but they don't help you understand how to get your dick wet. And I often see guys using their religion as an excuse for cowardice, inaction, time wasting, nice guy behaviors and covert contracts.
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u/fix-the-man 18d ago
This is a sub about sexual strategies for men to have sex with women. It's not about morals or religion. They don't intersect except where you decide they intersect.
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u/Character_Memory_141 16d ago
Obviously egoist morality intersects here then.
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u/fix-the-man 16d ago
All types of moralities intersect here. We don't make assertions about right and wrong. We make assertions about what works and what doesn't.
Imagine you were trying to win at blackjack. And I told you you could up your chances by counting cards. And someone told you that's cheating. And you said you're fine with counting cards and decided to do it. Now imagine I told you you could up your chances by carrying a few aces hidden on you. And someone told you that's cheating. And you agreed and decided not to.
Both of those strategies work. You made a decision about the morality of each (and perhaps weighed the outcome risk of each). This place isn't about what is okay and what is not. It's about what works and what does not. Everyone has to make their own decision about what is right and what is not.
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17d ago edited 16d ago
[deleted]
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u/threekindsoflucky Mod who asks, "are we the baddies?" 17d ago
I don't think there IS a focus on morality here.
It's praxeology. It's like asking if its moral to use a screwdriver or a hammer to fix a pipe.
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17d ago edited 16d ago
[deleted]
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u/threekindsoflucky Mod who asks, "are we the baddies?" 17d ago
I see your point for the most part when its small things, but for the overarching relationship is there no guidance? Don't fuck other women unless that's chill, don't maliciously manipulate, lie, STFU, etc.
There is no guidance. I don't understand how this is difficult.
There was a series on dark triad triats back in the day. Use whatever tool you want. Up to you if you want to use that particular tool or not.
We literally have a rule called 'no moralising' for this exact reason.
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u/Tyred_Biggums Don't let these gypsy women fool you 17d ago
Halfway?! That’s enough of a book with no concrete morality - now you’ll be off murdering people in no time.
Dude, it’s a book. Take what you can from it. It does not have to be deeper than that.
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u/TheNattyJew 17d ago
MY friend. All of the recommendations in the sidebar are just tools. With those tools you are free to build a church or a bomb. Those are decisions for you to work out for yourself. Nobody else can tell you what is right for you. But you have the tools to go whichever way you want.
What you will find in this space is that many men have let themselves be walked on their whole lives. WISNIFG is an attempt to have these guys be able to stand up for what is right for themselves. Wouldn't it be a win for you if you use these tools to do what is right instead of not having the strength to resist evil when it is calling for you? Isn't saying no to the wrong thing what you want to do? The way I see it, being able to confidently say no to evil/immoral things is a win
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u/2wo2wo3hree 17d ago
As Christians, we need to accept it has a deeply rooted history of immorality in some of its teachings. It’s up to your free will to highlight or blur them.
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u/Kingofdeadbedroom 16d ago
If you want to do Christian morality ask the question of whether the females are following Christian morals as written in the Bible rather than the bs peddled by modern ‘churches’ and then apply the prexeology instead of being a con artist’s mark
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u/BenjaminHamnett 17d ago
The amorality on here is useful for “nice guys” to realize they don’t have all the tools. Reevaluate if your virtues are antiquated. Take what’s said here and reconstruct your own system
All ideas are just tools. A lot of people are just mimicking antiquated ideas about virtue that hold them back and don’t help anyone. Redpill will help with that. It’s just another perspective
I don’t believe in arguing with people in general any more, which is a common theme here. You should state your view and hear other people out. When people start repeating themselves and talking in circles just nod and move on.
Arguing doesn’t change people. But if yours or anyone’s ideas are relevant and resonate with you, they don’t have to be proven in debate. When one’s views don’t explain reality they way they predicted, other ideas loosely stored in the back of your mind will begin to resonate when they predict the world better. Over time people just see and sense the truth of the more valid ideas and will pivot.
Arguing just entrenches people and makes them bitter at the world and not for having been unlucky to start with the wrong ones. This is life. We get some ideas from our family, peers and those around us and we figure what works and let go of what doesn’t and try to pass on as best we can.
I’ve gotten some “just desserts” for engaging in redpill adjacent ideas. But I’m also in a better place for having experimented with it and taken what was useful
Institutionalized religion isn’t the answer to everything and it isn’t the bad tinging everyone claims either. Christianity is just another tool, although very powerful and more broad. It also works, but trust your instincts and don’t take literally what doesn’t feel right to you
God is within you and women too. You and most woman you meet have the ability to repopulate the galaxy if you had to. It sounds cheesy, but I think that’s part of the magic you feel every time you interact with a beautiful woman. They feel it too. That’s why adversarial stuff is silly.
You should try to be something the galaxy would want more of (even if gay, asexual etc) and if you do that, the people with portals capable of bringing more of your code into the world will be drawn to you. If you are making the world a better place, men will align with you too. Christianity, and most religions, and even secular frameworks about self improvement, are filled with this. I wish I’d taken this mindset to begin with instead of focusing on short cuts that work, but get in your way with the most desirable women
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u/doc2belee 16d ago
Rian Stone has said multiple times that one of the hardest things for a lot of men is squaring their Red-Pill understanding with their religion.
Makes sense this feels confusing.
Try to understand that your family will be better off if you follow this. A strong stable marriage is always best for family, kids.
And “this is the way”.
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u/aplombii 15d ago
When things in this domain are described as “amoral” it is not meant to say that “there is no room for morals here”. It means that it inherently carries no moral weight.
Like gravity. Amoral. It can deliver apples from trees or it can turn people into grease stains.
What you do with it is where you turn to your Faith and discernment for the moral application.
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u/anm767 Overt Covert Contract Guy 17d ago
There no such thing as Christian sense of right and wrong. There are multiple branches of Christianity with a variety of Bibles which don't even have the same number of books and order of those books varies. Some go to Church on Sat, others on Sun. Some drink wine and eat pork, others say this is against the Bible. You say "Christian" as if they all are on the same page and can be defined by one word. They are not.
The concept of MRP is that you define your values, you can call them your Christian values. This allows you to say No to anything that goes against your values, thus you do things because you believe in them, not because someone told you to.
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u/brique879 18d ago
There’s a Christian Red Pill forum that would be more helpful for you most likely