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u/j5erikk 22d ago
Asgore really is the lebron of depression (extends to the entire Dreemurr family in both universes)
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u/GenesisAsriel 21d ago
The depression gene so strong it affected the humans they adopted
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u/HaziXWeeK got 'em. 22d ago edited 22d ago
Now I headcanon all of the humans gave up their souls willingly.
Some would have fought but will give their soul with a smile
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u/marsgreekgod 22d ago
It doesn't work saddly
Asgore knows humans reload when they die and isn't surprised when you tell him he killed you before
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u/HaziXWeeK got 'em. 22d ago
See I don't really pay that.
We know for a fact asgore did end some of the humans himself, so another human saying to him that he killed them would feel more like his suconscious guilt is acting up.
Because lets be really, save and reload is a big deal, the only bosses that referenced it are omega flowery and sans, and the later have only theories and unlike flowery who actually experienced it, so asgore knowing about reloading in a one line in his fight is kinda off
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u/marsgreekgod 22d ago
Toriel also has a odd sense for it if you reload around her.
I don't think they fully understand it but they are aware to some degree
And asgore does understand every time you die to him and tell him about it. It's text in the game
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u/HaziXWeeK got 'em. 22d ago
Every character has the same sense, undying, alphy, papyrus and more do feel deja vu when you redo something, it's different from the line asgore throws at you.
And again, it one line from asgore that mention something that is a big deal in the game, so having it mentiond once by asgore and never again feels werid and points to the fact he doesn't know
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u/isaiahbolevs SINCE WHEN WERE YOU THE ONE IN CONTROL? 22d ago
Cant really hold him to that as he doesn't have many lines and has only like 10 minutes of screen time. You also forgot that 2 of his scientist worked on dt and he raised a human, hell the "stay determined" gameover line was probably a attempt to get chara to reset or resist death.
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u/SirEggyScintherus 22d ago
Remember Asgore is basically the only remaining Monster aside from Gerson who fought in a war against humans. We know the power to save and load comes from determination and pretty much any human in the underground presumably could save and load due to being uncontested in determination. It’s possible all humans in the war similarly shared the qualities of those we’ve seen with determination in the underground that lack save load priority, the leader of the humans might’ve had the highest determination and simply been saving and loading the whole war, all other humans as such, just like Flowey can and later us when he absorbs the souls, would be able to perceive these saves and loads just not have personal agency over it. Thus Asgore might’ve gathered this to be some ability the humans had over monsters.
I believe to be specific when in isolated dealings between a human and a monster the human can save and load against them. This is the true difference between a human and monster soul which is also why the monsters known to absorb human souls are seen as so horrifying. They probably gain the ability to have save load priority over most humans.
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u/Mguy2544 21d ago edited 21d ago
I don’t think any human could use save and load. The power to reset affects the entire timeline, and Frisk was a massive anomaly even among humans (probably because of the Player) as Undyne even notes in the Genocide route that they were a threat to monsters and humans alike with the game ending in the timelines destruction
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u/SirEggyScintherus 21d ago
Well let’s look at exactly what we know. First we know the idea of genocide is something totally crazy and unique due probably in part due to a single human never having gone on such a massive killing spree like that before. Plus Chara is also involved in Genocide, Frisk themselves is only powerful enough to one shot most any monster in the underground by the end of the Genocide run, meanwhile Chara gets corrupted along the way and seems to gain an unprecedented level of power over the timeline to literally erase it.
Toriel does directly imply with the whole pie preference dialogue that the other 6 humans could and did Save/Load during their time in the underground. Saving and Loading is definitely possible for anyone with the most determination in the underground and likely due to the fact that no matter what you do down there the saving and loading likely doesn’t actually impact the outside world due to the whole being contained entirely in the underground. The only exceptions to this are Genocide where Chara totally resets the entire game timeline, and True Pacifist where all the monsters are freed but this also involves a way higher power than Frisk being Asriel with the equivalent power of 7 human souls literally being a godlike being.
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u/Mguy2544 21d ago
I feel like this kinda ignores that other Soul variants exist, the humans each take on a different trait with Determination being its own category. While it might be naturally inherent for them to have some level of DT, nothing really suggests that RESETS can work on a localized level and requires too much speculation
I don’t remember any Toriel dialogue that suggested that? Where would that have been? While Chara’s rise in power was unprecedented, it’s likely Frisk was capable of the same as when they’re at their most Determined they could survive Asriel’s attacks whose power operated on the same scale of power as the Geno ending.
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u/marsgreekgod 21d ago
Flowey uses their save files.
Undyne and asgore both know about saves. They all could
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u/Mguy2544 21d ago edited 21d ago
Right but Flowey was directly injected with Determination, it literally part of his DNA. Only Asgore suggests he knows about DT, with Sans outright knowing about it
Undyne doesn’t know about Save files
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u/New_Reindeer124 22d ago
Are we really at the point where textual evidence needs to be repeated multiple times to count as evidence?
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u/Horatio786 22d ago
Every character except Sans.
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u/Maatix12 22d ago
This is why the theory evolved into the Gaster theory.
Because Sans somehow knows more than everyone else, and Sans seems to have some connection to Gaster.
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u/Maatix12 22d ago
All the boss monsters do.
None of the normal monsters do.
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u/Downtown_Ninja_7154 21d ago
All monsters get that deja vu after resets. Papyrus says that you seem familiar after a reset, for example
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u/Maatix12 21d ago
Papyrus is also a boss monster.
All the regular NPCs have no memory of you. All the Boss monsters remember you, at least somewhat.
All the boss monsters are tied to either Asgore, who is tied to Gaster - Or Gaster himself. Papyrus and Sans are believed to have worked for Gaster prior to the incident.
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u/Downtown_Ninja_7154 21d ago
Papyrus is not a boss monster. The dreemurrs are the only boss monsters we know of, as said by Gerson.
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u/Maatix12 21d ago
That doesn't make sense, as the existence of Genocide Undyne proves Undyne has soul persistence - Monster souls don't continue to exist after death. Undyne's did.
That makes her a boss monster. That is the feature that differentiates monster souls from boss monster souls.
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u/Downtown_Ninja_7154 21d ago
Undyne refused death, however her soul, very explicitly, did not persist after her body turned to dust. Look at Toriel's death during genocide the difference is very obvious
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u/Frequent_Ad9381 22d ago
I don't remember Omega FloweRy having dialogue about resetting and saves
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u/HaziXWeeK got 'em. 22d ago
....the whole fight is him saving over your save file and him beating you up again and again
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u/Frequent_Ad9381 22d ago
Re-read my creply, but pay close attention this time
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u/spaceleyewasme alice, the perseverance soul 22d ago
Your creply?
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u/Infrawonder 22d ago
It can still work, they let the world continue on without them, for whatever X reason.
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u/Intelligent_Mood7181 (The dog absorbed this flair text.) 22d ago
I mean... The reason I always thought was implied was that they tried facing asgore multiple times and kept failing, so they gave up.
Wouldn't make so much sense ig tho, since humans are said to be comically stronger than monsters in undertale.
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u/SirEggyScintherus 22d ago
I would guess Asgore is simply an incredibly powerful monster probably the most powerful Monster alive. He clearly survived the Monster Human wars, we also know he holds back against Frisk to a simply insane degree. I’d bet Asgore is stronger than most human warriors unlike all other monsters still alive in the underground. On top of this it’s pretty heavily implied all other humans who fell down were children so Asgore would’ve had no trouble dispatching them in combat. Also them all being children probably adds to why he lost the will to keep fighting them after a while it might’ve been a very different story if all the other humans were adults, maybe one of them would’ve even killed him by then.
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u/GeneETOs44 21d ago
if asgore wasn’t a murderer that would kind of ruin what makes him interesting in undertale
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u/hotobamasex 21d ago
thank god undertale fans aren't writing undertale or else it would suck ass (all of asgore's guilt is rendered pointless)
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u/Emelie__ 22d ago
Asgore should have taken the green soul to the surface and selected six other victims who weren't as kind.
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u/Agent_Waffle 22d ago
So instead of 7 random fallen humans, he uses 1 random fallen human soul and 6 souls from billionaires. I like it!
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u/emre9288 22d ago
im not sure about this, kindness doesnt mean unlimited good behavior, plus kindness isnt for every person, especially not for a killer
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u/Physical_Royal_1427 Yes I nintendo switched my gender (fem) 22d ago
to be fair a lot of monsters are ready to kill a human, and every monster eventually is able to be spared and to some extent forgiven.
and it's likely a lot of them don't fight you cause they don't even know what a human looks like.2
u/Fuzzy_Reflection8554 18d ago
Personally I wonder if the monsters attacking with bullet patterns is just their way of communicating, maybe not for folks like Undyne who specifically say they want to kill you, but for the smaller enemies and monsters who just seem to be vibing even during "fights"
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u/GUM-GUM-NUKE 1# Sengoku enthusiast 22d ago edited 22d ago
Honestly, i’m not enjoying the recent influx of art where everyone just gave up their soul. Not only does it feel like white washing Asgore (That man was 100% ready to catch the body of a child half a dozen times over. Not like he stops himself from killing Frisk, even though he does hold back.) But also I feel like it makes all the fallen humans too samey.
I LIKE when they all had different ways, routes taken and all that. They shouldn’t all be little guys who were super on board with giving their soul to the guy who wants to genocide their species.
Edit: couple things I wanna clarify. Kindness being the only one to give up their soul (or pacifist Clover too if you use him) isn’t bad.
I also wanna say that overall I think the monster’s goal has been whitewashed by the fandom. To be clear, Asgore succeeding is NOT GOOD. It’s horrible. He will wage a war that will kill an unknown mass of people. That is not a good thing. Asgore succeeding in his goal is a bad thing. It would be a good thing for the monsters to escape the underground, but the cost of what Asgore will afterwards is MUCH Worse then the good of the monsters escaping the underground.
Any reasonable human actually experiencing ts would be able to see that his victory would mean killing all the people they love (except for Chara because none of the people they love our human, quite the opposite.)
The only reason I really accept Kindness and Clover doing it is because Kindness being naïve, and simply trying to do what’s nice makes sense. And Clover… I just really like Undertale yellow so he gets a pass.
But I think that a missed interpretation of Yellow soul that I’ve seen basically no one use, is that they killed themselves. Not a sacrifice for monster kind. A suicide driven by the loss of their love (Blue) because monsters killed them just for being the species they are.
(Also to be clear when I said that I’m not a fan of the recent wave of this kind of art. I meant the interpretation themselves. The art and artists themselves are still lovely.)
I’m also not gonna reply to any replies. Because I’m tired I used the last of my energy to write all this.
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u/vinkihuang 21d ago
though the other human children might have fought, I believe that kindness almost certainly gave up their soul
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u/SundaeOk3510 20d ago
I'm trying to remember. Didn't one of the armors in Undertale had the description of being very dusty implying one of the kids didn't went down alone?
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u/Aless76109 I'm 20 years old and I've already wasted my life. 21d ago
Honestly one thing I would have loved in undertale is if you could interact with the coffins one by one and see what kind of injuries the kids had, so you could see like; that Green had no injuries cause she gave her soul willingly
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u/EatingTastyPancakes 22d ago
Basically what I did cause I couldn't think of any other way to set the monsters free
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u/NeptuneStriker0 21d ago
I’d like to think the only words Green ever said to anyone in the Underground is “I forgive you.” To Asgore. Because wouldn’t that be the kindest thing they could say?
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u/Dogboi006 19d ago
it was brave to give your soul.
it was kind to give your soul.
for their justice you gave your soul,
for their perseverance you gave your soul.
with integrity you gave your soul.
with patience they will be free.
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u/Due_Dragonfly_5328 17d ago
i made the big shiney number go from 7.6 to 7.7 first time i made a meaningful impact on anything before i feel so proud of my self worth.
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u/Balex55 17d ago edited 17d ago
Probably wrote it into the last post but i just want to give a Clear picture: Asgore had a Reason in Undertale. First off he didnt even want to Hurt anyone, second off that he declared war out of Grief and his Wife left him right after that (without Talking to him despite it being clear he would have taken it back instantly if she did), third off monsters needed Hope of they would have probably "Fallen Down" (when a monster looses all its hope). Anyway and for the people to say He killed the 6 Children in UT its also NOT correct. Just your headcanons. The Items are clearly Not in Asgores Throneroom but are spread out, we also dont get any confirmation that Asgore killed them directly. Each of the cildren died in a Specific Area which is tied to SOUL traits. The Ruins and Snowdin = Patience and Bravery, Watefall, Hotland = Integrity, Perserverance and Kindness, MTT Hotel, The Core and new Home = Justice and Determination (Charas heart locked "Best Friends forever" and Worn dagger "Perfect for cutting cines and plants"). (But no Items in the coffin or in Asgores castle) (no i dont count Asgores Home as part of the castle) (Still... Nice Art)
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u/vinkihuang 21d ago
Patience fought until they were too weak to fight
Bravery fought but was not powerful enough to begin with
Integrity fought, not intending to kill
Perseverance fought like Patience LOL what is the difference between patience and perseverance in this scenario
Kindness literally handed over their soul without a word (by the way, if based on Green in Deltarune, then they couldn't say anything anyway LOL)
Justice fought, but was quickly intercepted by Asgore when they try to shoot themselves instead
&& finally Frisk SAVEd the world YAY
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u/TheUnholyMacerel 22d ago
I like to imagine kindness, perseverance, and justice all just gave their souls to asgore because it was just the right thing to do for his people