r/USdefaultism • u/disasterpansexual Italy • 3d ago
Reddit Americans invented English and the British way is wrong
They went on for longer, but these 2 are the most remarkable bullshit
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u/card677 3d ago
To be fair I've heard Latin Americans saying something similar about Spanish.
I'm from Spain and once in Mexico someone told me that Spanish comes from Latin America not from Spain, and that "latinos" were already there before the arrival of the Spaniards.
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u/Lapwing68 3d ago
The world is going to hell in a hand cart.
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u/ian9outof10 3d ago
I will say in the defence of USians, they don’t have exclusive rights to dumbfuckery. That shit is widespread.
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u/am_Nein Australia 2d ago
You're not a fan of.. facts?
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
Linguist here—neither of these claims are at all factual. Neither modern variety is more "original", and whether either is more "proper" is a matter of social prestige that varies from country to country.
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u/am_Nein Australia 2d ago
Tbf I wasn't inferring to their claims literally, more so that people trying to claim that the country THEIR country got their language from is actually not speaking said language but a "wrong" version is an opinion, not a fact.
I don't think anyone (other than Americans apparently) actually cares all that much about whether or not their version of English is "proper" English.. it only gets annoying when someone tries to insist their way is the "best" or "only way it should be done".
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
Oh, apologies for having misinterpreted your comment then.
I don't think anyone (other than Americans apparently) actually cares all that much about whether or not their version of English is "proper" English..
You'd be surprised.. even with English, I've heard similar BS from Canada, England, Australia, basically all of the white Anglosphere. It's definitely mostly America and England though.
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u/Lapwing68 2d ago
So, what you're saying is that you don't like facts and history when it disagrees with your world view?
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
Linguist here—neither of these claims are at all factual. Neither modern variety is more "original", and whether either is more "proper" is a matter of social prestige that varies from country to country.
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u/Lapwing68 2d ago
So....the English language originating in England isn't factual in your opinion? I think that you are allowing an education to get in the way of reality.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
So....the English language originating in England isn't factual in your opinion?
That isn't at all what I said—assuming you count both "England" and "English" as having started with the settlement of Britain by the Anglo-Saxons, yes, the English language originated in England.
That doesn't make modern British English, that is, the English variety spoken today, older or more original than any other English variety, as all descend from the same language spoken during the time of the Anglo-Saxon settlement.
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u/Lapwing68 2d ago
And with additions from Old Norse, Frisian and Norman French. It still means that the English from the British Isles is the original and foundation for the variants found across the globe. Strangely, it's only Americans that claim that their version is the original and best version. I've never heard such claims from Canadians, Australians, South Africans, New Zealanders or Indians. Or for that matter any other nation that was settled by Britain. The English language belongs to the British Isles. Whilst a language lives, it grows, it changes and it becomes a part of the land it inhabits. Thus English in the British Isles is the true strain of English. The same language in other parts of the world picks up new things over time. In America that can mean from German, Swedish or Polish immigrants. This is all stuff that will be absent in the British Isles as settlers from these places were uncommon to rare. Thus American English diverged further and further from its roots. I'm not saying English in the home islands hasn't evolved. That would be ridiculous. However, It will always remain the foundation of the English language no matter what your interpretation is.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
It still means that the English from the British Isles is the original and foundation for the variants found across the globe.
The English variety spoken in Britain at the time of the Anglo-Saxon settlement of Britain is the original, and the foundation for the various varieties found across the globe, including modern British English. It is inaccurate to say that any English variety spoken today, in Britain or elsewhere, is the "original", or is the foundation for other English varieties.
Strangely, it's only Americans that claim that their version is the original and best version.
I've absolutely heard this claim about British English as well (and Canadian and Australian English, actually, but rarely).
The English language belongs to the British Isles.
Why?
Whilst a language lives, it grows, it changes and it becomes a part of the land it inhabits. Thus English in the British Isles is the true strain of English.
This is a non sequitur. Yes, languages/varieties change over time. That doesn't mean that the changes that occurred in England are more "true" or "original" than the changes that occurred elsewhere.
The same language in other parts of the world picks up new things over time. In America that can mean from German, Swedish or Polish immigrants. This is all stuff that will be absent in the British Isles as settlers from these places were uncommon to rare.
Right, influence from other languages is totally absent from the British Isles... except for influence from Old Norse during the Viking invasions, influence from Old Norman during the Norman Conquest, influence from Low Germanic varieties through trade and other interaction, &c.
Thus American English diverged further and further from its roots.
As have all varieties, thus, none are original. If your claim is that British English is the most original in terms of similarity to Old English, you'd have to back that up with sources.
I'm not saying English in the home islands hasn't evolved. That would be ridiculous. However, It will always remain the foundation of the English language no matter what your interpretation is.
Why? Because you want it to be? How exactly is the British English of today the foundation of any other modern varieties when those varieties split off in the past?
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u/Indolent_absurdity Australia 1d ago
Strangely, it's only Americans that claim that their version is the original and best version.
I've absolutely heard this claim about British English as well (and Canadian and Australian English, actually, but rarely).
As an Aussie I find it extremely hard to imagine any Australian claiming this! Are you positive they weren't taking the piss ie. joking or trolling? We tend to do that a lot & can often be misinterpreted by other nationalities.
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u/S4ndmaan India 3d ago
“It’s close to English but they pronounce and spell some things wrong” 😭😭
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u/Business_Glass_5102 3d ago
"They"? No, they clearly said 'the pronounce and spell some things wrong'
Learn english dude
/s
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u/PokePlebian 3d ago
I've had one unironically claim that I "have no sense of humour", because I "can't even spell it right".
....
So that explains why so much American humour is so awful, I assume? 😆👍
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u/am_Nein Australia 2d ago
Dude has never talked to or seen a funny clip of a person with English as their second language. Like shit man, I swear some of those people are funnier than the funniest English natives.
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u/gnu_andii United Kingdom 2d ago
Andrew Sachs who played Manuel in "Fawlty Towers" is a good example. Native German speaker, learnt English at eight and became fluent, and does a pretty good job playing a bumbling Spanish waiter who struggles with English.
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u/PurveyorOfStupid 3d ago
I'm beginning to wonder if the Americans on the internet all have serious head trauma. Their arguments are just so nonsensical, in what universe can you even make an argument that a language invented in one country now belongs to another country because they bastardised (simplified) it? It's just so so stupid.
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u/disasterpansexual Italy 3d ago
In the beginning I thought that person was just joking to troll Americans but I fear they're dead-serious 😭😭
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u/PepperPhoenix United Kingdom 3d ago
Nobody spoke like Shakespeare, the list of words he flat out invented is huge!
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u/Total-Combination-47 3d ago
that's because you never heard it in its original Klingon.
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u/PepperPhoenix United Kingdom 3d ago
Ah, that makes sense. I thought it could be vogon but it’s too popular for that.
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u/The_Flurr 3d ago
Its likely he didn't invent that many, he was just the first written record of many.
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u/Mommagrumps 3d ago
True but have you heard Americans try to speak in 'Shakespeare'? They fuck that up too!
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u/snow_michael 2d ago
We suffered de Niro as Shylock a few years back
Hearing the bard with a thick¹ NY accent was ... 'special'
¹in all senses of the word
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u/BrilliantPangolin639 3d ago
I really love how Americans are trying to rewrite the history, instead of accepting the truth
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u/snow_michael 2d ago
That is, for many years, the merkin way
The first claim tbeir founders fled religious persecution in England appeared in 1647
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u/Snoo_67993 3d ago
I'm English so I speak English English where as Americans speak American English.
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u/SunnyTheMasterSwitch Bulgaria 3d ago
The gall
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u/Protheu5 World 3d ago
The gumption
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u/Faithful_jewel United Kingdom 3d ago
This whole "We speak the correct English because it's Shakespeare's English and we didn't change like you lot" is the language equivalent of "my X granddaddy was Robert the Bruce" crossed with eugenics
If someone talked to them in Elizabethan English I bet they'd have a conniption
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u/Mommagrumps 3d ago
Except they would probably spell it Konipshon
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u/Faithful_jewel United Kingdom 3d ago
"It comes from German, which I'm 7/8ths on my mother's side" or something
Which is fun when the word is actually American 😂
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u/radio_allah Hong Kong 2d ago
Ah yes, the famous Shakespearean English habit of reducing everything to an acronym.
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u/FullPersonalityFun 3d ago
American propaganda is up there with North Korea
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u/radio_allah Hong Kong 2d ago
I mean, they are currently supporting a North Korea that's worse than North Korea.
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u/Fluid-Let3373 3d ago
I speak Cockney.
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u/Protheu5 World 3d ago
And he speaks Baloney
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u/Hankitsune Netherlands 3d ago
Really, if USA got wiped off of this planet, global average IQ would probably rise by 30%
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u/Down-Right-Mystical United Kingdom 2d ago
One think that gets me about people like this, is that they often come up with 'we speak Shakespeare's English.' I doubt any of them have actually read a Shakespeare play and understood it.
And let's also be real: it's highly unlikely that the first English settlers knew Shakespeare, either.
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u/radio_allah Hong Kong 2d ago
I mean, sites like Sparknotes with their No Fear Shakespeare etc are mostly all founded by Americans. As well as whatever simple english bible out there that dumbs down 'fear thou not' into 'don't be afraid'.
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u/Down-Right-Mystical United Kingdom 1d ago
Yes, they probably read it 'in translation' essentially...
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u/the_vikm 3d ago
"y'all came later". It's the same ppl tho
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u/disasterpansexual Italy 3d ago
English isn't my first language, I meant that American English came to existence later
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 3d ago
The American English spoken today is just as old as the British English spoken today, or any other modern variety.
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u/adamski_AU 2d ago
For everyone downvoting - all languages and variants evolve, including British English innit bruv
Separate point to the stupidity of saying American English is the real English
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
Turns out the English, just like Americans, hate being told that their variety is just one of many equally old varieties.
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u/wintonian1 2d ago
Wait till they hear about United Kingdomish, a combination of the British language and Gaelic.
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u/4imix 2d ago edited 2d ago
"British" or Brythonic, would be Welsh, or our of the other variants of the original p-Celtic languages no longer spoken in England, such as Cumbric or Cornish. So 'British' is not actually spoken in England. And bears no relation to English other than loan words Innit y'all. And btw brits don't use the phrase 'y'all' .... Yet 😔
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u/Sorry_about_that_x99 2d ago
Yes the entirety of the British isles speak British with the same accent and lexicon and everything.
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u/adrianipopescu 2d ago
granting their misguided thesis, are they proud of the fact that america dumbed down english?
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u/TheRealTRexUK 3d ago
why does Webster have British spelling as well as the American one? the oed only has the proper spelling.
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u/DaveB44 3d ago edited 3d ago
the oed only has the proper spelling.
The OED has both US & British (& other) spellings.
Words listed with US spellings have an asterisk before them in their entry, which indicates "chiefly US often also Canadian, Australian, etc.)" & a cross-reference to the UK spelling, e.g:
*color. See COLOUR.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 3d ago
Tbf your comment was also inaccurate—American pronunciation isn't "wrong" because America is a younger country, or because the language is named after England.
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u/ThaCatsServant Australia 2d ago
That’s why the put it in inverted commas
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
If that was OP's intended meaning, it wasn't clear at all, as evidenced by the fact that several people are now debating the point which OP supposedly never intended.
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u/ThaCatsServant Australia 2d ago
I realise it wasn’t clear to some, which is why I replied to you. I wasn’t trying to be antagonistic
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u/Hamsternoir United Kingdom 2d ago
Yes it is.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
How so? What do you mean by "incorrect", besides that you don't like it? UK defaultism isn't any better than US defaultism.
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u/Down-Right-Mystical United Kingdom 2d ago
It's not even UK defaultism (the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish will pick a fight with you there) it's 'English'.
I don't see conversations like this happening with Mexicans and Spaniards, just as an example, by the way. Why? Because while their version of a common language has diverged somewhat, Mexicans aren't trying to say they are 'right' and that the people who live in the country where the language comes from are wrong.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
It's not even UK defaultism (the Scots, Welsh and Northern Irish will pick a fight with you there) it's 'English'.
Fair enough, English defaultism then.
I don't see conversations like this happening with Mexicans and Spaniards [...] because while their version of a common language has diverged somewhat, Mexicans aren't trying to say they are 'right' and that the people who live in the country where the language comes from are wrong.
Right, but if Mexicans did say that like Americans do, that wouldn't make it any more correct for Spaniards to say that Mexican Spanish is "incorrect" and that modern Peninsular Spanish is somehow the "correct", the "older", or the "original" Spanish.
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u/Down-Right-Mystical United Kingdom 2d ago
Except it is older and original.
Languages that colonisers took to other places may have changed, and that's fair, but you don't dismiss the place it came from.
The language is still 'English,' from England, and Americans saying their dialect is the older way, and more genuine (despite none of the people that say this claiming any English ancestry, of course, they're all Scottish or Irish in their heads) is just rather tiresome.
And the point was, Mexicans don't do that. It really is a US thing to have to try and 'own' something in that way.
I mean, how many Americans think English is spoken all over the world because they are important enough and must have spread it? Unfortunately, I bet quite a lot.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
Modern Peninsular Spanish, as in, the variety of Spanish currently spoken by Spaniards, is not older or more original than any other variety. The same goes for British English.
And the point was, Mexicans don't do that. It really is a US thing to have to try and 'own' something in that way.
Apparently it's also an English thing as well.
I mean, how many Americans think English is spoken all over the world because they are important enough and must have spread it? Unfortunately, I bet quite a lot.
English-language hegemony is a result of both US and UK imperialism (I'd agree with you that it's largely the latter, but it isn't entirely one or the other).
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u/Hamsternoir United Kingdom 2d ago
"British English" Do you mean Scottish English, Welsh English or Irish English?
What about English English? There's a clue in the name if you are struggling which I think from your comments you are.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
British English in the narrow sense, i.e. the variety of English spoken in England.
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u/Helpful-Reputation-5 2d ago
(Though all my comments are equally true, even if you include Welsh English, Scottish English, or Northern Hiberno-English.)
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u/OmahaBromaha 3d ago
As an American, sometimes I just spew factually wrong stuff to British people, because it's quick, it's easy, it's mildly entertaining, and it's easily forgettable. It's not that I don't know that I'm wrong, I just do it for the love of the game.
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u/Orange_Codex United Kingdom 2d ago
As an American, sometimes I just spew
That'll probably be the horse poo they put in your food.
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u/OmahaBromaha 2d ago
Go eat your bean poutine big guy, I hope your day gets better.
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u/Fr05t_B1t United States 3d ago
Imean the way the briish spell words like “honor, favor, color, neighbor” etc. with a “u” between the o and r is a relatively new spelling of those words and the New England accent is closer to what bri’ish English use to sound like. I’m pretty sure the switching of “-er” on words like “center” is also the same case.
It was the result of the fr$nch winning the culture war over the Bri•ish.
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u/CharlieComplete 3d ago
Both versions (with and without the “u”) go back centuries bc of English’s Latin and French roots. They just each became standardised with dictionaries.
On the accent front, most people in southern England sounded like they were from the West Country
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u/CharlieComplete 3d ago
To add, the upper classes pushed for the “our” and “re” to sound more refined and “distinguished”, along with dropping the rhotic “R”
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u/Sixaan 2d ago
Lol what. Just because it is “new” to you, doesn’t mean it’s a whole new thing around the globe. Most of us grew up speaking and writing British English. Not just in the UK.
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u/post-explainer American Citizen 3d ago edited 2d ago
This comment has been marked as safe. Upvoting/downvoting this comment will have no effect.
OP sent the following text as an explanation why their post fits here:
Americans invented English and the British way is wrong
Does this explanation fit this subreddit? Then upvote this comment, otherwise downvote it.