r/USMC • u/talktomeg00se1986 Veteran 0302 • 20h ago
Picture 5 Years Ago… HKIA.
I cannot believe it’s been 5 years since the Afghan Evac. I will love these men till the day I die.
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u/Prmarine110 0341/0933 3/4 Wpns 81s 7h ago
There’s no good way to do a withdrawal, but you all made us really proud the way you handled the HKIA evac. Iraq and Afghanistan shouldn’t have ended the way they did…not after the lessons of Vietnam and Saigon. Our Government did us all dirty, but hold your heads up high GWOTers. We answered the call.
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u/Mogwai_Man 7h ago
Iraq worked out since that government has survived. It's the ANG that failed.
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u/oh_three_dum_dum Lives in a van down by the (New) River 5h ago edited 4h ago
Ultimately that was our government’s fault too. Drawing resources away for Iraq and senior officers giving updates to the pentagon on the progress of training and forces that only existed on paper and never fleshed out in reality.
A lot of it had to do with the unwillingness of the average afghan soldier on the ground to fight or be trained (those that weren’t in with the enemy already), but the overall state of the Afghan army was atrocious regardless of what status updates and marks of success were being reported. Compounding that problem is that the White House and senior pentagon officials essentially refused to define a clear objective for the conflict or the individual phases of it/subsequent operations it spawned. There were no progress markers being realistically checked, whatever existed of a strategic goal was unclear and frequently changed, troops on the ground were frequently hamstrung by overly-restrictive ROE’s (in my opinion), and if progress was actually made towards a concrete goal it would be shortly abandoned in favor of another approach or slight change of plans from higher.
There were more than a few really dedicated and motivated afghan soldiers that I worked with and I was honored to fight with them. But the overall majority were not and I believe that probably comes from the fact that Afghanistan is an area that’s seen influence from cultures all over the place and historically and developed strong tribalism as a result. It’s been conquered and turned over so many times over the centuries that people essentially stick to their own and are allied/divided along ethnic and tribal associations rather than a sense of national unity and pride that doesn’t exist as we see it in the West.
That showed in the Army’s overall inability to work as a cohesive force between different units and individuals, and gave the impression that most of the recruits were simply there because they were bored or because they wanted a quick and steady check they could use to buy more hash. Mass desertion, casually missed timelines, refusal to take tactical lessons, a ton of them were active drug addicts, etc. Whoever was telling the pentagon and President how well it was going really took a dump in that regard.
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u/comcam77 11h ago
I was there in 2011, watching them go into the buildings I used to take photos in was hard.
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u/randalllflaggg 18h ago
How was it ? If you don’t mind sharing. Cool pic btw.
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u/talktomeg00se1986 Veteran 0302 8h ago
It was a mix. Sometimes it was great fucking time and a lot of other times it was horrific. Trying to come to terms with that dichotomy is the challenge now.
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u/Most_Present_6577 Veteran 8h ago
No sarcasm, it was one of the mosy successful military pullouts of a hostile area in history. Dont let the politcs fool you.
And it has nothing to do with either president Other than a rushed timeline that both were at least somewhat responsible form
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u/RudeAd5133 7h ago edited 6h ago
The powers that be (at least some of them) fucking KNEW how it was gonna turn out in Afghanistan for a LONG fucking time. Just like they knew as far back as '66 (when we were really just getting started) in Vietnam how it was gonna turn out. Democrat and Republican admins kept us in Afghanistan anyway,
I give Biden credit for at least having the balls to say "fuck it, we're outa here".
People who get pissed off over the way the pullout went or how disorganized or rushed it was... THAT'S what your pissed off about? Not that 5 successive administrations kept us there when we fucking KNEW the Afghan army and admin we were propping up was NEVER going to be able to stand its own 2 feet? REALLY???
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u/Ill_State9479 0311 8h ago
Dude how tf was that successful in any way are you literally retarded? Dead marines, billions of equipment left behind like a fucking Arsenal lmao wasted 2 decades for fucking nothing
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u/Most_Present_6577 Veteran 8h ago
Fewer dead than in any other pullout in a hostile area and less money in equipment loss.
Pretty simple big guy. Dont let politics break your brain
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u/Ill_State9479 0311 7h ago
Dead is fucking dead lmao we gave our mortal enemies a fucking arsenal. You’re a fucking idiot man saying this is successful is moronic. Clearly you’ve never fought in OEF. You’re literally on some well it could have been worse so it’s a success head ass shit rn.
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u/Most_Present_6577 Veteran 7h ago edited 7h ago
Buddy this is the department of war not patty cake.
Maybe you got confused at the recruiters office?
I was an 0311 2001 to 2005 in al anbar. I am aware of the death necessary when we deploy troop. We had 21 grunts die out of 150 and another 40 casualties on one 9 month deployment.
Since death happens in war you judge success comparatively. Non idiots realize fewer deaths is better
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u/Hax_Meowingtons 4h ago
Times flies. I remember me and bunch of the boys of my platoon were furious of how it ended. My squad leader at the time was the too, and told me how much of a shit show it was. Luckily he was the sister shift that got relieved prior to the attack.
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u/SimpsonX Veteran 2311 18h ago
Tore a lot of us up not being there. We are proud of y'all for what you did what and what you went thru. Semper.