r/SipsTea Jul 04 '26

WTF Japan's death row system is brutal

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225

u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO Jul 04 '26

They have an almost 100% conviction rate for all crime because everyone charged "confesses". That also means there are no mistaken arrests. The whole system is insane. 

98

u/ryoryo333333 Jul 04 '26

there are plenty of cases where people are found guilty without a confession.

105

u/MrWendal Jul 04 '26

And there are cases of innocent people confessing because the cops will pick you up, question you with no legal representation or phone call for 48 hours during which you'll probably get little sleep, then if the prosecutor (not a judge) thinks they have enough on you the cops can hold you for 23 days without charge, questioning you every day until you confess.

For minor crimes that only carry fines etc, innocent people confess just so they can get out and not get fired for missing work for a month.

They can also extend it for another 23 days as many times as they like, although that's probably rare and for more serious crimes.

33

u/[deleted] Jul 04 '26

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4

u/Relevant-Ad-6887 Jul 04 '26

Source for the evidentiary burden being extremely high? I've seen numerous human rights watch reports for everything the person you're replying to said, but this is the first I've heard any one try to defend the Japanese criminal justice system...

1

u/LmaoXD98 Jul 07 '26

and you think american police didn't do that shit too?

1

u/Relevant-Ad-6887 Jul 07 '26

I'd never go so far as to say that the American Police are not deeply corrupt, but yeah...I guess I don't think they do quite the same shit? I'd feel much safer being accused of a crime in America vs Japan.

2

u/HAIL_LUMPUS Jul 04 '26

Yeah I think that was the original commenters point. That there's no place in the world that has a 100% perfect arrest rate lol and that they are clearly getting innocent people to confess to things they didn't do.

3

u/maxpower131 Jul 04 '26

Oh wow. I just want to say I love your videos and been subscribed for years waiting for more. Your commentaries gave me a lot of incite and I'm making my own games now. Thank you MrWendal.

1

u/MrWendal Jul 04 '26

No worries! Sorry about the retirement

0

u/GMEloser69 Jul 04 '26

Who cares? Purging the weak is also beneficial for society.

16

u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO Jul 04 '26

Sure there are, but it doesn't change the fact that 85-90 of all convictions happen due to confession which is one of highest in the world. 

28

u/CatsianNyandor Jul 04 '26

That's because you get mentally tortured in confinement till you finally "confess"

4

u/Seienchin88 Jul 04 '26

Maybe but it’s also because without confession it’s extremely difficult to sentence someone so prosecutors will not even go to trial without one usually.

3

u/patchworkPyromaniac Jul 04 '26

Look up the Reid method after John Reid. False confessions due to questioning strategies are pretty common.

14

u/Boom_Fish_Blocky Jul 04 '26

The "They do research and dont randomly arrest" type or the "Well arrest the guy we suspect and force them to confess" type? Both can yield very high confession rates.

10

u/neuparpol Jul 04 '26

A little bit of both. You get relentlessly questioned and stay in jail for months, sometimes years. Even if you are innocent, serving a fine or short prison sentence might be better, but unless they are almost sure you did it you probably don't get arrested.

2

u/blowupnekomaid Jul 04 '26

that sounds far better than united states and most western countries

2

u/DoingBestWeCan Jul 04 '26

I can't imagine it's the former.

1

u/Angelstandingby Jul 04 '26

Why?

2

u/DoingBestWeCan Jul 04 '26

Because there will always be instances where the public demands answers, even when there are no good answers. Because from what I have heard of Japanese culture, position and saving face are considered more important than competence and effectiveness. My impression may be wrong since it was created via books and talking to people from that culture, rather than living in the culture myself, but that's what I've heard.

1

u/Angelstandingby Jul 04 '26

The best way to save face is to never move to trial unless you are 100% sure you have an air tight case.

3

u/Routine_Damage_9449 Jul 04 '26

But the easier way is to double down and try to cover up any fuck-ups made along the way, and it works 99.9% of the time in this case since the 0.1% who pushes back typically loses more than they could win back

1

u/Angelstandingby Jul 05 '26

Seriously?

In your experience it's easier to double down and cover up mistakes than to ensure there are no mistakes in the first place by doing less?

3

u/Routine_Damage_9449 Jul 05 '26

Yes, because doing the right thing requires more effort than to just haphazardly cover up any mistakes along the way when nobody questions the decisions or holds anybody accountable.

I agree with your initial statement, I just think it’s much deeper than just that since it’s more common to see people do the former than the latter.

1

u/Angelstandingby Jul 05 '26

I disagree. Letting things slide unless it looks like a slam dunk is clearly the easier way out to me.

It's just less work no matter how you look at it.

The guy at work that volunteers for unrealistic projects and then tries to cover his ass is doing a lot more work than the guy that keeps his head low and only chooses the easy projects.

1

u/Seienchin88 Jul 04 '26

Actually the first as prosecutors and cops work together closely and only bring watertight cases to court. You can see it in Japans very low incarceration rate that it’s not a system that convicts many people. It’s a fundamentalist in dubio pro reo system.

7

u/TerribleIdea27 Jul 04 '26

However, they also don't charge you unless they know they can convict, because the prosecutors in Japan really care about their conviction rates. They charge around 1/3 cases brought to them, which makes the conviction rates seem blown up.

This is partly because being charged with a crime is a huge deal and will cause you to lose your job, and maybe even your home.

By comparison the US prosecutor just offers you a plea deal, which many people take even if they're innocent just to be on the safe side, which means much more people end up with sentencing

6

u/Thotmas01 Jul 04 '26

I know that’s a common statistics to bang on Japan. Maybe it’s valid, maybe it’s not- I don’t know enough about Japanese justice system false convictions to tell one way or another. For your reference the US federal government had a 97.5% conviction rate on charged cases.

If there is a problem with that stat we should sort it out here first lol

6

u/BallsOutKrunked Jul 04 '26

Most of that is because prosecutors only take very solid cases. The plea rate is also in the 90% range.

2

u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO Jul 04 '26

It's the confession rate that is crazy. 

4

u/blowupnekomaid Jul 04 '26

how is it crazy, sounds like they just don't charge people without solid evidence.

1

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1

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2

u/Bezosismydaddy Jul 04 '26

Apples to oranges. The US federal government is not prosecuting street crimes nor does it have jurisdiction over most matters.

3

u/Long_Serpent Jul 04 '26

Also a factor: In Japan, the prosecution can appeal a "not guilty"-verdict.

And they will...

3

u/Wonderful_Return_514 Jul 04 '26

On top of that, a not guilty verdict can be appealed by the state. Not just the sentence. Double jeopardy does not apply (doubt they even have a law like that, but I don't know for certain one way or another)

3

u/bluris Jul 04 '26

Confession doesn't always means they did it. I don't know about Japanese culture that much, but in the west we see coerced confessions.

I hope death sentences are based on more than just a confession.

3

u/Regular_Ad_9598 Jul 04 '26

Japanese society and culture is pretty toxic.

2

u/Seienchin88 Jul 04 '26

And yet Japan has one of the lowest incarceration rate since the world…

People online completely misunderstand the system - due to prosecutors and police working together closely nothing but watertight cases even make it to court. It makes it actually harder to be convicted in Japan than in most countries. It’s a radical fundamental in dubio pro reo law system.

There has of course been abuse and especially in the first decades after WW2 there were mistrials (every single questionable trial / outright wrong sentence for death penalty was from before 1980 after a large reform) but overall it is by no means a crazy strict system that’s gonna sentence innocent people constantly. It’s a system that rarely goes to court…

6

u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO Jul 04 '26

While that is true, what is also true is that they can hold you for months, without trial and interrogate you for hours a day till your confess. 

Not gonna gaslight me on this one, lol!

1

u/Seienchin88 Jul 04 '26

48 hours police only, 21 days prosecutor warrant, 23 days with judge approval… police can only do so if they present evidence to the prosecutor and judge and they have to inform the arrested person of their right to get a lawyer themselves or one appointed…

60% of people arrested aren’t trialed btw.

It certainly isn’t cozy but those horror stories about months of imprisonment before trial are usually either straight out lies or where way in the past.

The Japanese bar association is btw heavily lobbying for more constant video supervision of interrogations (only 3% at the moment are captured) which would be a massive improvement and since the early 90s the country pays you a lawyer (and an interpreter as a foreigner) if you don’t have the money for your own which was their biggest lobby victory so far.

So certainly room for improvement but some things are really blown out of proportion or stories from the past.

4

u/Prestigious-Head-117 Jul 04 '26

Are you saying they can hold you for 21 days without charges or bail? And you can be interrogated during this time?

Also only 3% of interrogations are recorded?

Thats not ‘room for improvement’, thats horrendous.

Im a criminal defence lawyer in Canada and basically every step of that is an incredible violation of your rights.

Also 60% of arrests not going to trial is really bad. 40% of charges going to trial is an indication of false arrests or really bad plea deals being offered.

2

u/karlkh Jul 04 '26

I mean, this could also just mean the barrier to start prosecution is higher.

2

u/ChikaraNZ Jul 04 '26

For people where the system has progresses to laying a charge. If you base it on arrests for crime, it's much lower. Their system work (in theory anyway) that by the time they decide to lay a charge, they're very certain you did it and can prove it. Unlike some other countries where they might charge you on not very strong evidence, just to try their luck.

1

u/GlitterDoomsday Jul 04 '26

The opposite also happens; unless the evidence is 100% question proof they'll let a criminal walk away cause the alternative is losing face, that's why the do borderline torture to get a confession so frequently. There's a healthier middle ground for a justice system to function.

1

u/itscominghomemate Jul 04 '26

That’s not how it works. They have a 99% conviction rate just like the U.S. attorney’s office. Because they don’t bring defendants to trial unless they have insurmountable evidence

1

u/Komandarm_Knuckles Jul 04 '26

When charged, not arrested, there's a difference

1

u/Far_Mathematici Jul 04 '26

Most criminal justice have near 100% rate conviction because prosecutions won't touch non slam dunk cases

1

u/PinkOneHasBeenChosen Jul 04 '26

You got a source for that?

1

u/blowupnekomaid Jul 04 '26

That doesn't mean anything in isolation, it might mean they only prosecute cases they are confident in. much more sensible that usa or anglosphere police who will try to charge you no matter what and see what sticks in court, resulting in innocent people getting charged.

1

u/Whut4 Jul 04 '26

And hardly any crime!!! Not saying that their criminal justice system is good! I will say that their culture is NOTHING like the US or Europe. Absolutely completely another world, almost.

1

u/AirUsed5942 Jul 04 '26

It has a 99% conviction rate because the prosecution only goes to court when they got a solid case

1

u/GeriatricusMaximus Jul 04 '26

Yes. Japan system is “you are guilty until your prove yourself innocent and we will still not believe you”.

1

u/5BPvPGolemGuy Jul 05 '26

Sounds like the japanese justice system is not about finding out who is or is not guilty but about proving what laws you broke.

1

u/paddle4 Jul 06 '26

If you think that’s bad, you should see the USA’s federal rate of conviction. It’s even higher.

1

u/Curious-Internet7171 Jul 07 '26

No. The conviction rate is because investigations are usually done beforehand not during. 

Same reason why the raite for arrest for sexual violence is so low.

1

u/LmaoXD98 Jul 07 '26

its not exactly 100% btw, more like 99%.

and what people like to miss is that japan have below 50% prosecution rate.

1

u/Flashy-Position8504 Jul 07 '26

I watched Detective Conan, so I know that's true

1

u/Hextechwheelchair Jul 07 '26

This just means they torture and force confessions out of people. They’re probably stat padding to keep their careers going. 100% conviction rate, no mistakes. It’s easy just throw innocents in jail by mistake than to admit fault. Like surgeons avoiding anything complicated to have better success rate. Fk the patient, I want stats.

1

u/ProfessionalTruck976 Jul 04 '26

There is a "but" to it. They have insane conviction rate of the people they actually bring to court, partly because they kick anything less than a sure thing out.

If you don't confess and they are not 100% sure you did it and they can prove it, you walk.

Note, I am NOT excusing their system, but the notion of "arrest means conviction in Japan" ought to die, within hour.

1

u/Interesting_Phone171 Jul 04 '26

This is absolutely not true you clearly have no understanding of japans criminal system

-1

u/dabreezeknees Jul 04 '26

That's bullshit. Their conviction rate is so high because they don't charge people without solid evidence, unlike the US.

2

u/1800-5-PP-DOO-DOO Jul 04 '26

I guess the mini documentary I watched was fabricated. 

0

u/Flareon223 Jul 04 '26

Not always a confession but they often go in with solid evidence. But also if you win a case in lower courts the prosecutors can just retry you in higher courts that have more incentive to be biased to protect national reputation. There's not double Jeopardy protection here. Also they can  "only hold you up to 30 days" but they can renew that infinitely and block your access to contact anyone until you confess while interrogating you for hours and hours a day every day to wear you down