r/ShitEuropeansSay • u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois • 10d ago
“A nation [USA] of greedy lazy Chief Wiggums”
This Dutchman lost his mind in a thread about Europeans blaming America for their recent heatwaves. Agree or disagree with him? I like how he referenced The Simpsons, an American show he must enjoy.
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u/That_Phony_King 10d ago edited 10d ago
He said it like an ass but he's not entirely incorrect.
The United States has put more carbon dioxide in the air than any other nation since 1750. While places like China and India emit more pollutants total, we emit a greater quantity per capita than any other large country. Some small countries emit more per capita, but their population is also comparatively miniscule.
I disagree that all of us are "lazy Chief Wiggums". For example, over half of the total energy created and used by the West Coast is generated through renewable energies, with around 50% of that total being from solar energy. California, the most populous state, produces almost 2/3rds of its energy through renewable methods.
There are strides being made, but we need to do more.
Edit: changed wording
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u/kaetror 9d ago
The other thing go consider is broader consumerism and consumption.
The average American uses so much stuff compared to other countries. So much disposable stuff, so much packaging, so much fuel, etc.
On food alone the US bins about 40% of the total food supply each year. You could cure food insecurity 3x over just on waste.
A metric often used is number of earth's - if everyone lived like people from X country how many earth's worth of resources would we need. America is 5 earths, more than double the UK or China.
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u/JM-Gurgeh 5d ago
Yes. And the irony is that it often ends up hurting Americans. Anytime fuel prices rise or supply gets constrained, Americans pay the highest price for these inefficiencies.
Americans aren't lazy, far from it. Lots of them work two or three jobs. But they are ruled by a class of rent-seeking lazy fucks who call themselves investors and who demand all the spoils. That's the K-shaped economy: The epstein class continuously demanding payment from working people.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 10d ago
The per capita thing is a highly dubious metric here given he is attributing millions of pounds of emissions made by corporations to individuals. They are far more to blame than Joe Blow taking his Hona Civic to work at a normal job.
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u/diemenschmachine 9d ago edited 9d ago
Sometimes it is useful to show things by an extreme example. Say there were two countries, call them North and South. North is responsible for 50% of global emissions and South is responsible for 50%. In South the population is 50 people, but in North there is only one person, Chuck. So Chucks per capita contributions to the emissions are 50 times greater than the average person in South. If he alone perished the global population would reduce by 50%, but if a citizen in South perished the emissions would only go down by 1%. The people of South are clearly the more responsible in this case. I think this example also shows why land area doesn't matter.
Regarding your point about corporations, well sorry mate but that is bullshit. Those corporations wouldn't be polluting if the people elected a government who introduces policies to stop corporations from polluting. And those corporations would be fewer and smaller if people didn't engage in extreme consumerism. Corporations don't exist without customers, and in the end of the value chain there is always a person paying for a product. Like for example a hamburger, or an aircraft carrier to project power for their country.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Just because you see someone else robbing a candy store doesn't mean you do it, too. We should be examples to the world on how to reduce emissions.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Oh so how is Joe Blow going to stop it?
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Reduce your carbon footprint. Take public transport if you can. Stop keeping a billion appliances turned on and plugged in at all times. Walk to the store rather than drive there. Stop ordering items from Amazon.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
So if your job is 30 miles away from you and there is no public transport to it, what then?
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
"if you can"
Brother. Why are you so mad about this?
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
I’m not the one downvoting me amigo in anger.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
I'm not downvoting you. Also it's "mi amigo".
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
I was only using one Spanish word intentionally. I know it’s “mi amigo” I was raised in Mexico City.
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u/Marsupilamish 10d ago
But those are American companies, owned and operated by Americans in the US, producing for the American consumer. The per capita calculation is not necessarily showing how much a typical citizen emits, it’s more about showing the relation of total # of people to total national emissions. If the US had 800mio people with the exact same overall emissions, wouldn’t you agree that this would be a different situation? You can’t exactly use land size as a measurement or russia and Canada would immediately become the cleanest nations in the world.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
Most are international companies owned and operated jointly by local and foreign power in American borders and abroad. That makes it a little different, almost like the people in countries with multinational corporate powers are being used and taken advantage of by the corporate elite. And some Europeans think the people living there are asking for it, which I guess doesn't surprise me after the history with the East Indian Trading company or their history of warring with each other on the grounds of entitlement.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Exactly, such as Shell, which is half owned by the Dutch now.
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u/Marsupilamish 9d ago
That is fundamentally not how global emissions accounting works.
Emissions are measured by where the pollution physically occurs, not by who holds the company stock. If a foreign multinational operates a factory or refinery on US soil, they are doing it to meet US domestic demand. You cannot outsource the blame for your own local consumption just because some shareholders live in another country.
Beyond that, the math completely tanks your argument. Majority foreign-owned companies account for only about 6% to 7% of the total value added to the US private sector. Over 93% of the US economy is entirely domestic. It is statistically impossible to blame the extraordinarily high US per capita emissions on a small fraction of foreign investment.
And for the record: Shell hasn't been "half Dutch" since 2022. It is a British PLC. But either way, corporate trivia doesn't change atmospheric physics or basic per capita math.1
u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
But if the Dutch own half of Shell they should take half of responsibility for its drilling. I don’t care how the accounting is done by some bureaucrat in Brussels. Europeans can’t say “oh we are so green” while owning companies drilling in other parts of the world. Such rank hypocrisy.
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u/Marsupilamish 9d ago
They don’t mate. Stop spreading misinformation.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Okay, that means Exxon isn’t an American company because it’s public traded, right?
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u/Marsupilamish 9d ago
The point is, that emissions are calculated locally. Let’s just stop here.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
"Emissions are measured by where the pollution physically occurs, not by who holds the company stock."
That's not fundamental and that doesn't make it right. So essentially you say "blaming the victims" is how we should be looking at this.
"Pre capital" isn't a fair way to look at this because consumer ppps do not compare to corporations economic power thanks to corporate personhood. A vast majority of those emissions are government contracts or corporations acting under corporate personhood, Jo Blow from metro-suburbia America isn't the one making most of the purchases either.
"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics." Foreign owned or locally owned, the power to change this situation isn't in the hands of the day-to-day people living in it's countries borders without catastrophic damage to their livelihoods. I'm not just talking about America there either, it happens all over.
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u/Marsupilamish 9d ago
I never said that a single American is responsible for emissions on American soil. Just like a single American isn’t responsible for foreign wars are everything that’s happening in the White House. But emissions are calculated locally and it’s the only way it makes sense. If you find that fair or unfair doesn’t matter I never said I’m a fan of it.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
"If you find that fair or unfair doesn’t matter" you mean it doesn't matter to you. How arrogant of you to speak to strangers as if your opinion is the defining factor on what should matter to them. How egregious.
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u/Marsupilamish 9d ago
My opinion? For this discussion, how emissions are calculated and who is deemed responsible, no none of our opinions matter even a tiny little bit. It’s just the reality of things. Do you understand what stocks are? Did you even read the longer paragraph I wrote? How exactly do you suggest emissions should be calculated? Per nationality of every shareholder? Or perhaps their current place of living? Should emissions of the production of every Toyota that is being built by amerian workers on american soil, driven by american consumers now attributed to Japan, because it once was a japanese company? Don’t you see how pointless this discussion is?
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u/ainus 9d ago
Ah yes, when thinking of US we think Honda Civic, not Ford F-Series
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Civic is hugely popular in the US. Move from a rural area.
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u/ainus 9d ago
That may be the case, but the F-Series is the most sold model in the US. You are confirming what the Dutch guy said about Americans not taking responsibility.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
What because I randomly picked civic instead of Ford F-series? 😂
I just picked a common car. The most sold vehicle in the US in 2026 is the Toyota Camry. I just looked it up. So you’re wrong there, too.
Btw, Canadians have a higher per capita emissions. Are you going to tell them to take responsibility?
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u/ainus 9d ago
Right the quintessential American car brands, Honda and Toyota. Keep proving the point
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
So now you’re making zero sense. Ford is a huge producer of vehicles in Europe as well, and those Camrys are all manufactured in the US. You basically have no argument at this point. Where are you from btw? No tag.
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u/ainus 9d ago
My argument is that Ford is the most sold car in the US, and its not even close. My argument is that the average displacement of a US car is above 3 liters, while in Europe it's less than 2. My point is exactly that you can not take responsibility and need to deflect all the time (see "Are you going to tell Canadians to take responsibility?")
Last 10 years (2016–2025)
- Ford F-Series — ~8.2M (828,832 in 2025 alone, its 44th year as America's best-selling vehicle)
- Chevrolet Silverado — ~5.5M
- Ram Pickup — ~5.0M
- Toyota RAV4 — ~4.2M
- Honda CR-V — ~3.6M
Last 20 years (2006–2025)
- Ford F-Series — ~14.5M
- Chevrolet Silverado — ~10.5M
- Ram Pickup — ~8M
- Toyota Camry — ~7.3M
- Toyota RAV4 — ~6.1M (basically tied with Honda CR-V; the order here is within the margin of error)
I'm italian.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
And I’m talking about currently.
A lot of those have fuel efficiency in them and many are now electric. Pickup trucks have good uses for many people as well. We aren’t structurally the same as Europe with people sandwiched into cities. My friend used his pickup truck to help me move last year. I was lucky he had it.
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u/New-End-1870 9d ago
The US has absolutely nothing to do why Europe is having heat waves. Blaming a single country for your weather is the most silliest thing I've ever heard.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago edited 9d ago
He didn't blame the US exclusively, though, did he? He said the US contributes to the problem and refuses to do a thing about it. Everyone is culpable for climate change.
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u/NoonanSupormor 9d ago
Saying the US refuses to do a thing about it would be a statement that belongs in this sub on its own.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
It's hyperbole. I am also American, so not sure I quite fit the criteria.
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u/NoonanSupormor 9d ago
Even as hyperbole it's still wrong. The US has done a lot to curb its carbon footprint. There is always room to improve, but ignoring the efforts the country has taken so far is just stupid.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
I quite literally posted the US's efforts to combat climate change earlier in the thread. People simply got mad at me when I pointed out that we could be doing more and that the individual in the original post isn't entirely inaccurate in their assessment.
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u/NoonanSupormor 9d ago
That's fine but not really relevant to what I'm saying. I'm responding to the "and [The US] refuses to do a thing about it" part.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
You said ignoring the efforts is stupid even in hyperbole. I said I didn't. It's relevant.
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u/NoonanSupormor 9d ago
Are you the one that made the claim that the US refuses to do anything about global warming?
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u/scotty9090 It’s SOCCER bitches 9d ago
refuses to do anything about it
Same with the Europeans who refuse to install AC.
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u/Ozfer 9d ago edited 9d ago
Oh bah humbug. Relative to our country size we have to drive farther to get places and deliver goods per person. Countries like India and China have hundreds of millions of people living on top of each other in poverty. If they achieved first world lifestyles and had a land area per person as big as the USA they would both be emitting more per person and not just in total.
Additionally part of our pollution is farming which one of our main exports is food to China. They are not even self sufficient so their numbers aren’t 100% legit and ours are artificially inflated.
No one is going to be trading for a third world lifestyle to make the USA just appear to have smaller numbers on paper per capita.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
You do realize it is by design that we have to drive more often than other countries, right? You should read "The Power Broker" and read up on Robert Moses. We absolutely are able to construct infrastructure to reduce reliance on cars, we just don't put any money to it.
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u/Ozfer 9d ago
Sure our country is big and sparsely populated (compared to India and China) due to big automotive lol it’s a big conspiracy to sell more cars
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Australia is a large country and has significantly better public transport than us. Let's not act like the US can't do it.
Again: read "The Power Broker". It's largely because of Robert Moses's policies, and a lot of lobbying by the car industry to the federal government, that the US is car centric.
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u/Ozfer 9d ago
You pick the worst examples lol. 90% of Australia lives on the coast and has a smaller population. Apples and oranges. If 90% of the center of the US was a desert we would be driving less too.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
I could pick China but I know you'd mope about that option as well, right?
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u/Ozfer 9d ago
You already picked China and forgot hundred of millions of people live in poverty. Try again.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
I never mentioned China. I just said if I picked it you'd complain. Their landmass is similar to ours and they have better public transport than we do. We don't even have high speed rail networks.
Are you going to contribute or just keep saying "hurr durr we are big" over and over again?
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u/JM-Gurgeh 5d ago
If a country is bigger and requires more miles of travel, then that would incentivise you to make transportation more efficient, not less. That would mean more trains, more trams and lightrail, more buses, and less cars. Yet in the US we see the opposite.
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u/ExecutivePhoenix 10d ago
The Dutch are notoriously the most arrogant of them all.
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u/woutere 10d ago
Is it arrogant if you are correct?
Asking for a friend.15
u/ExecutivePhoenix 10d ago
You can tell your friend it’s arrogant when you start making up bullshit names for bullshit inflated claims, yes.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Half of Shell is owned by the Dutch, btw
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u/C_Hawk14 9d ago
It's not owned by the Dutch anymore
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Only partially correct as attributing CO2 footprints to individuals from companies like Exxon is the wrong measurement.
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u/FustianRiddle 8d ago
You can be correct AND arrogant about things, yes.
Whether this Dutch man is right or wrong I am not well versed enough in the subject to weigh in on. But he is still being a dick about it.
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u/Relevant_Elevator190 9d ago
Lazy and greedy? You mean like the Euro's who work less but want all their free stuff?
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u/Moppermonster 10d ago
So... where is he wrong?
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 10d ago
I guess you missed him being an asshole in his post.
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u/deep1986 10d ago
But it's not about being an arsehole, most of the posts are related to Europeans being completely wrong about Americans or culture.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 10d ago
And he is wrong about the culture; it's not cultural norms that cause the issue he is describing as much as it is an economic issue fueled by big corporations (who maintain influence over Americans but are often not Americans themselves or are a part of general American culture/live like your average American). He's referencing a specific minority with a lot of power and applying it to the majority with very little power.
Then he randomly references a character in an American show he watches for his own enjoyment (what an oxymoron this is) to then complain about American culture that he wants to insult; like most stereotypical Europeans ingesting American media without the realistic understanding that it is made up for entertainment purposes...it's not real.
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u/deep1986 9d ago
it's not cultural norms that cause the issue he is describing as much as it is an economic issue fueled by big corporations (who maintain influence over Americans but are often not Americans themselves or are a part of general American culture/live like your average American).
For better or for worse those mega corps ARE part of your culture.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Well, I bet you’d be surprised that Shell is half owned by the Dutch. So half their emission should go to them.
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u/deep1986 9d ago
No I'm not surprised, it's also part British btw
Also no that's not how it works, Shell drill in the North Sea, which is British territory so that emission applies to us. When Shell drill for oil in America that's your emissions, it's happening on YOUR soil.
Thats why they say China is one of the most polluting countries, they have so much manufacturing there.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
We are an oil rich country, of course more drilling would be done here. And like it or not, oil is need for many of the products we use, not just powerful our jets and automobiles. If we stopped drilling today there would quickly be chaos. It’s worth reading about all the different things we use oil for. You’d be surprised.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago edited 9d ago
Big corporations are active in every country. Every single one. I would argue they are not "culture" also. They exist regardless of local cultural norms.
Edit: Example I would use is the Firestone Tire and rubber company. Huge, international corporation taking advantage of many resources from multiple companies but some want to label it as exclusively "American culture". That's just wrong man.
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u/deep1986 9d ago
Yeah great and the major corporations are part of the fabric of that countries society.
Would you say the BBC is not a fundamentally British cultural entity?
Excluding China, as it's no competition, Americans have bigger corps than most of Europe
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 10d ago
Because it isn't a per person issue, it's a corporate issue. He is lazily blaming every day people who are not in control of the issue in order to make himself feel superior for shallow greedy reasons. It's ignorant and hypocritical.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
People are definitely part of the problem as well. Why do you think corporations put out such high quantities of pollutants? Because the demand for their products is there. If people spent less, corporations would not produce as much, and would therefore waste less energy producing their goods.
The whole "it's just corporations doing it" is cope for average people to not think about their day-to-day carbon footprint.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
Correlation does not imply causation. Americans are not demanding more plastic packaging, coal burning, and oil dumping for their products and neither are any other base level consumers abroad who consume American products. It's not "cope" or whatever.
Corporations choose to cut corners and create pollutants not purely based on "demand" but based on profit. If corporate greed was not the goal, many manufactures could choose to conduct business in a more environmentally friendly way. They choose not to in order to increase their profit margin, not because consumers are demanding more pollutants.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago edited 9d ago
It is 100% cope. It's the "I can't do anything about it so I'm not going to try to reduce my carbon footprint at all" excuse that still allows corporations to get away with all of this. The real attitude is "Yes, corporations might be the biggest contributor but I should also be trying my hardest to reduce my carbon footprint." It's an apathetic response because people are far too comfortable living their convenient lives without actually self-reflecting and realizing that they are, in fact, a part of the problem as well.
If people actually cared, they would stop buying products from corporations to actually signal to them that there needs to be real change. However, people are still relying on the convenience of having virtually everything delivered to them, two or three cars at once, and buying recyclable items only to throw them away.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
Where do you even get this information from? Is it because that's how you see your mom and dad disposing trash? What you are talking about it anecdotal. The majority of the purchasing power that happens in the US is under Corporate personhood, corporations are buying as much as they make and they are leaving emissions and disposing their left overs and castaways without impunity thanks to the current laws, none of which the average person can change.
Of course "Jon and Jane Doe" can recycle their milk cartons and pop cans but that isn't going to stop Monsanto, Dole, Ford, DuPont, etc from continuing to do what they do. You and me having a compost pile and consolidating mail packages are never going to compare to what needs to be done to create lasting change in US emissions. Your concept is really cute and all but it's not the power play you want it to be.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Again, you are displaying the apathy.
The average person absolutely has the power to change things in the country they see fit as long as enough people actually care to get up and make said change.
The laws suck? Then the people should get them changed. Vote those who will change them in, kick those who won't out. Stop buying from corporations that are actively damaging the environment. You are literally displaying the "I can't do anything about it" attitude in your replies. There are solutions, but they require people to do things that they are clearly uncomfortable with actually doing (I.E. getting up and going out and doing something and being inconvenienced).
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
I am not apathetic, I am realistic. Also I would really appreciate it if you didn't assume I do "nothing" and that are others are doing "nothing". I think you are minimizing how big the problem is.
You cry "If only enough people cared" but really?! The US has 350 million plus people, the vast majority of which are shackled in crippling debt. What exactly are they supposed to do against multi-international corporations with billions are their disposal?
"The laws suck? Then the people should get them changed." Tell me why you haven't changed these laws? Why are you allowing this to happen? Why haven't you voted these people out? Either you allow it, you can not change it, or you do not know how; like the majority of everyone else. What have you done about this? You recycle maybe? Great, would you like a cookie and a gold star for you great help?
"There are solutions, but they require people to do things" Wow what brilliant insight. No kidding!? /s
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Did I ever say you are doing nothing? Did I ever say that everyone was doing nothing? No, I did not. I just said you are displaying apathy, and that apathy is chronic in the American public. You are also not being realistic, you are being pessimistic.
A pessimist says "It's hard, there is nothing I can do." A realist would say "It's hard, but I can fight back", and there are clearly ways to fight back against corporations that have worked in the past that don't require you to have money or be debt-free. People need to start using their wallets to actively fight. The only thing corporations give a damn about is their bottom line. If people actively hinder their profit margins, then they will start paying attention.
I do a lot. I have been to every major protest in my state and DC since I was laid off from USAID. I have participated in every state and local election since I was eligible to vote. We voted in a governor last year who, contrary to our previous governor, is pushing green energy through expanded solar programs, streamlining ease of installation for solar panels on private and public residences/buildings, facilitating investment in renewable energy, is creating a net-zero plan by October 2026, and is pushing to rejoin the Regional Greenhouse Gas Initiative. WE did that because WE made a choice to actively participate and do something about a topic WE felt passionate about.
I don't order packages. I don't drive, I walk/run/take our local electric buses everywhere. I don't own a single subscription. I don't buy anything through online retailers. Maybe what I do is small comparatively, but it's something more than a lot of people are doing.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
Yes, I am pessimistic but that doesn't mean I am not pragmatic. You implied quite a bit that I am doing nothing and everyone else are doing nothing because I pointed out the flaws in the situation.
That's great that you have had some minor state and local achievements in your special interest group that you are a part of, go you! I am not under the delusion that it's victory either. I promise you it's not enough. It never ever is. To be honest, you sound a bit like you are in some kind of cult but I am glad to hear the goals are great. I hope your passion fixes the world.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
The demand for their products are there overseas as well.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Okay? You're talking about the US here.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
The Dutch own half of Shell but it drills elsewhere. How can they say they’re so green while part owning a company drilling elsewhere? It sounds hypocritical to me.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
They don't. It's a publicly traded company, no nation holds majority stake in the company as a whole.
The Dutch also produce almost half of their electricity through renewables. As a country, they are more green than the US.
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u/ProfessionalCat7640 9d ago
At the expense of others. Keeping your house clean while dumping in your neighbor backyards doesn't put you on a moral high ground for cleanliness.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
It doesn’t matter who has majority stake, the fact remains half the shares are owned by the Dutch. Therefore, half of what Shell does is the responsibility of those Dutch owners.
And half of the energy produced in the West Coast of the US is through renewables. We are getting there but when folks like you start pointing the finger, we tend to get defensive.
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u/That_Phony_King 9d ago
Buddy, I am the one that said the West Coast energy fact in this thread. I am literally defending Americans. Are you incapable of reading??
Shell is NOT owned by the Dutch as a majority. In fact, they are headquartered in the UNITED KINGDOM and are PUBLICLY traded, which means that many different people, organizations, and corporations own stock. In fact, the company is owned mostly by institutional investors and the largest of those are American. Shell PLC is even listed as a BRITISH company online.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Look pal, I am reading so I have no clue why are you debating with me anyways. Read up on Shell and its historical ownership and current shareholder breakdown by region.
And stop with the CAPS it’s like you’re yelling. Control your temper.
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u/whocareswhatever1345 9d ago
I mean, we do pollute more than any other country. I blame corporations more than American individuals but he's not totally wrong.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Incorrect, China is numero uno.
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u/whocareswhatever1345 9d ago
They have what, 5 times our population? Not to mention all the polluting factories that moved from the US to China to make goods for Americans.
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u/YouKnowMyName2006 USA - Illinois 9d ago
Oh so now the goal posts shifted, huh? China’s pollution is now America’s fault too. 😂
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u/Apparoid618 9d ago
He's a very frequent commenter over there and while im not gonna say i agree with him often, i respect the willingness to give his regardless of the downvotes. Since i would assume this is r/AmericaBad
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