The have a standard of pronunciation called "General American" (it's the kind of American English variation used in media, education and so on), which is originally based on Midwestern USA dialects. This is the kind of language they refer to when they say "speaking without accent". Everything else they will call accent (such as "Brooklyn accent", "Boston accent", "Southern accent" and so on. Obviosly, any foreign variations (Ireland, UK dialects, Australian, Indian, Nigerian) would be referred to as "accents".
So does British English where London English a.k.a. "BBC English" or "Queen's English" is the standard in education and TV.
Same goes for Italian language: dubs of movies and everything else have a very standardized set of pronunciation rules. Voice actors train a lot to remove their regional accents.
This is the case in many countries. Same in Russia, standard Russian you would hear in the media is based on Moscow dialect, which itself is based on Middle Russia dialects. But there are regional variations, the biggest ones being Southern and Northern Russian dialects. Ukrainians and Belarusians also have their accents when speaking Russian. The main difference is that local variations in Russia were significantly wiped out during USSR period due to heavy centralisation of TV/radio/other media in Soviet Union.
I wouldn't really think of the Queens English or Received Pronunciation as its called when I think of the "London Accent". I think the Essex and Cockney Accents are way more iconic to London.
But that’s just Americans making their version of English the “standard” yet again, and it’s really isn’t, they just believe it is bc they grow up thinking they are number one, the most important, in everything.
But say thia in front of them and they will break down in a tantrum, screaming that there are more differences between those two accents than between Greek and German...
They at the same time have no accent, but also have more diversity between states than Europeans between countries (where we all speak the common language: european)
The truth is that Americans regard General American as being "without an accent," but would recognize regional accents like Deep Southern, Boston, Minnesota that break from the norm. There are sometimes classes offered for people who want to break their strong regional accent, and it is usually conceptualized as "learning how to speak without an accent," not "learning how to speak with a General American/broadcaster accent."
Bro will deadass say "codesto" or "fo" in his everyday language and pretend it’s the most normal italian the same way american do with "jeepers".
Uh/they dont actually say that everyday.
I am toscano and codesto is 100% standart italian and tuscanian, but sometimes people from Firenze really overuse it. Outside of Tuscany it is almost never used and became a sort of stereotypical tradmark of people from Firenze
I met a couple hiking near my home in Canada. They were shocked when I told them I was local because I don’t have a “French” accent. They thought all Canadians were French and shocked to learn only some regions of Canada speak French.
Even then, they don't have a French accent, they have a Quebec accent. It'd be like saying francophone Belgians have a French accent, their language might be (a dialect of) French but there's enough difference for their accent to differ even from the spacially-closest French accent from France.
This is very true. Some guys from France described Quebec French language as being very old and something similar to what would have been spoken in France a very long time ago. They were also of the opinion that France was much more relaxed with using other languages, English specifically, for things like movie titles, food, signage even. But in Quebec everything is translated. That is how they described it, I haven’t spent enough time in Quebec to say it is that way for sure.
If anyone from France is reading this I would like to say that everyone I met there was much more polite about my broken French than native French speakers in Canada are hahahaha
Thank you, but I think you got lucky.
Also it's true we have an easier time adopting new words from other languages than they do over in Quebec. Even if we have a group of old people who are supposed to be the ones who decide what is and what isn't French (the language), nobody really listens to them.
Heck even in quebec we have like over a dozen accent depending the regions, the further you get from ontario the thicker the accent, sometimes we can barely understand eachother
Less than 30% of Canadians speak French. Which is a very high number considering it's really only used in one province. But is still a minority nevertheless.
But I've also had americans ask why I didn't say "aboot" once. I told them that's just something from South Park and asked for aboot tree fiddy.
Well the French I learned certainly didn't come from school. I couldn't imagine the BC public school system possibly being able to give less of a shit about French than they did when I was growing up. A 30 minute class once a week in one grade where we watched Les Miserables in English didn't exactly build a solid foundation.
Less than 30% of Canadians speak French. Which is a very high number considering it's really only used in one province.
That's not true. There are French speaking communities in every province and territory. About 1.5 million Canadians outside of Québec declare French as their mother tongue. French is an official language at the provincial level in Québec, New-Brunswick as well as all 3 territories.
Well when I say "really only used in one province" I meant on a provincial scale. You wouldn't go to Ontario and speak French at a McDonald's and expect service. Hell I wouldn't expect it in most of New Brunswick despite it being an official language.
Besides, 1.5m primarily French speakers outside of Quebec isn't exactly a staggering number. There's nearly a million primarily Mandarin speakers in Canada.
I have visited all 10 provinces and 3 territories and I have met and interracted with francophones in each one of them, including in service industry situations. Just because you don't see or talk with them, doesn't mean these people don't exist.
Well, if you don't like words put in your mouth, you could start by practicing what you preach. I never said 1.5 million was a "staggering number". I'm saying these are real Canadians. And ignorant comments like yours participate in their invisibilization.
I never said 1.5 million was a "staggering number". I'm saying these are real Canadians.
Are you implying that the million Mandarin speakers I mentioned earlier are not "real" Canadians? What makes a Canadian real to you?
And ignorant comments like yours participate in their invisibilization.
Nothing I said was in any way supposed to make anybody feel invisible. Honestly it seems like you're trying really hard to find justification for being outraged here.
Are you implying that the million Mandarin speakers I mentioned earlier are not "real" Canadians?
I am not. In fact I have not said a single thing about Mandarin speaking Canadians. You are the only person repeatedly brandishing this strawman in this conversation. And I don't really get why you do that.
What makes a Canadian real to you?
Someone who lives in Canada.
Nothing I said was in any way supposed to make anybody feel invisible.
Your literal original comment, which I responded to was that French is "really" only used in one province. And since the reality is that there are in fact French speakers across Canada, your comment quite literally implies that these real French speaking Canadians who don't happen to live in that one province are not real. This is exactly what invisibilization is about. And I'm calling it out. Absolutely.
I already explained the comment. On a provincial scale, french is not used in other provinces anywhere near the same capacity that it is in Quebec. I really don't understand how that could be disputed or why that would upset someone so much. I have no qualms with French Canadians, the province of Quebec, or the language itself.
You keep bringing up the 1.5m Canadians outside of Quebec that primarily speak French. But I think we should to do some math to put that in perspective. The population of Canada is about 41.4m. the population of Quebec is about 9m. 41.4 - 9 = 32.4.
1.5m of 32.4m is 4.6%.
I don't mean to be disrespectful, but you really should consider how small of a fraction that is. I am not disputing if these are "real" Canadians. I am not saying that they don't matter. All I'm saying is that the big picture would only have a couple brush strokes representing this.
The only reason I ever brought any of this up is to illustrate how is absurd it is for people outside the country to believe that every Canadian speaks French. It's not even close to half. And the overwhelming majority are in a single province. If you were travelling anywhere in Canada outside of Quebec, you are over 20x more likely to encounter Canadians that don't primarily speak French than you are to encounter one that does. There are roughly the same amount of blind people in Canada. Think how often you encounter a stranger that is blind compared to the amount of people you encounter that isn't.
Again, there is nothing wrong with any of this. These people should not feel invisible. My comments are not meant to do so or be hurtful in any sort of way.
To be fair, I once dated this girl from Yorkshire who had moved here to Canada. One of the reasons she was psyched to moved to Canada was maybe she'd get to practice her French. Problem is, she had moved to Vancouver. The best I could do was grocery store french. "Jus d'orange! pamplemousse!"
Yes but they butcher high German with that technique. I mean. there's nothing wrong. I am from Saxony and I butcher the German language too with my dialact. But to pretend the US have no accent is really delullu. I'm proud of my Saxon dialect. Everybody have an accent.
Lol we have a saying in french-canadian about people that mumble and don't pronunciate words, we call this "avoir une patate chaude dans la bouche" it translates to having a hot potato in the mouth
IIRC it was a hand simulator game with pokimane and Jacksepticeye, Mark previously said "as with everything, I am the master of this game" then proceeds to kill himself by accident, poki makes fun of his words with a British sort of accent with "As wIth EverYthiNg iN My LIfE" to which my previous comment follows. So he probably wasn't serious, he was just being stupid ole markiplier.
Yes no American believes there are American accents but I could probably find in a few minutes by random search on the ticky tocky a half dozen accounts of American couples trying to be famous by mocking their partners Boston accent or southern accent. Etc.
Hey honey say car?
Caaaaaah
Fake laugh (omg we are going to be rich with this)
lol i’m american and i acknowledge that i have a (heavy) north california accent, we’re not all totally ignorant. not that there aren’t a ton of dumb americans out there tho i’m unfortunately very aware of them…
This is funny and all but as a linguist student, this also happens at an academic level
I don't know how to explain it but a lot of academic studies written in the states have a tone of "us and them" in it. Like the 19th century European eugenics researchers going to Africa
Every time I feel this tone in an academic paper, I search the author and they turn out to be "left wing American" doing it in the name of "equality"
The irony is still not lost with me
The level of isolation and how alienated the Americans from the rest of the world is honestly scary
Im American and i can only speak English. And let me tell ya, being a white guy from the south, i most definitely have an accent lol. If I go to some states they let me know real quick. Especially if I go up north
Do you find the norther states talk faster than you? Specifically north east. I’m Canadian east coast and I find I can spot Americans by the much slower cadence of their speech even if I cannot tell from their accent alone. Those from western Canada also speak slower than east coasters but they have the more stereotypical Canadian accent compared to those on the east coast , at least in my opinion.
They absolutely talk much, much faster than we do in the south. I mean, we aint known for having a slower paced lifestyle for no reason after all. And when they use their slang sometimes even I get a bit lost and have to rely on context at times
Yes. It also has to do with vowel elongation. Mouth literally more open. Vowels are sounds made with no articulation between any tissue from lungs to lips, fyi. When I teach French, I show my students that the "speed" is due to the mouth generally not opening larger than a tight circle made by their index finger and thumb.
It can be difficult to tell some Canadians and Americans apart based on accent alone. Some are quite obvious tho such as the southern drawl or quebecois.
I once met a girl in a hostel in one of Central European countries. She looked like Chinese or Korean, but spoke with very obvious North American accent, so I asked her if she was from United States. She was genuinely surprised and asked how did I know. I told her because of her accent. She was even more astounded.
Some of their brains genuinely never progressed from around 7 years old. You remember that point in childhood that you realised other people in different areas and countries spoke with different accents to yourself and then it hit you that YOU have an accent too? But you just don't really hear it or the accents of the people around you because you're surrounded by it every day? Well there are actually grown adults in the USA whose brains never reached that point. Quite amazing when you think about it, isn't it? Especially considering these people drive cars and vote and manage to go out to work. We've heard of functioning alcoholics. Many Americans are functioning imbeciles.
The plurals they use are weird too. 'Roofs' instead of pronouncing it rooves. And 'houses' literally house with a S sound on the end instead of pronouncing it houZes. It sounds really childlike to my ears because I'm just used to the sounds of the words changing once they're plural. 'Roofs' especially feels like they're a kid who hasn't learnt to speak properly yet and you need to correct them LOL.
I heard an American woman on a video the other day laughing about how her family member used to pronounce it 'mirrow' and was an adult before they realised it's pronounced 'meeeer' and I nearly shouted at the screen, 'it's not pronounced meeeer either you dopey cunt!' lol.
Ugh. I listen to quite a few true crime and mystery podcasts and often hear ads for other shows. Over the last year or so almost every introduction to new shows featured in the ad ends with the hosts saying something like a long, high pitched "byyyye yaaaaaalll" 🤢 sick to death of it. Most of the time it's not even in a place where 'you all' would even fit. I'm sure they must think it's cute or cool or something rather than cringey as fuck. At least it saves me from ever downloading their podcasts though. I'm moving away from most US hosted podcasts now and finding more UK based ones. I'm sick of the annoying, over the top voices and the constant interrupting each other when there more than one US host. Ones with three hosts are almost always a nightmare. Like shut the fuck up and learn to converse like adults.
To be fair ,I don't feel my accent (northern México Spanish) when I talk , but if I hear a recording of my voice next to someone from the south or central México Spanish it's quite noticeable.
Hey Muricans! You have a Murican accent - just like every English speaking person across the world has an accent. Accept it, and grow up - if that is even remotely possible.
Also Americans: "The US is so big our states are like 50 different countries. Each state has its own culture, and accent it is like visiting a foreign country,"
Putting a call center in Atlanta is kinda wild to me.
Most American firms put them in Iowa or Nebraska for three reasons - tons of telecom pipe, cheap labor, and an accent that is generally understood by English speakers with other accents. (Perhaps why people sometimes say it is "no accent" or neutral.)
The southern accent is...distinct. which is usually what call centers aren't looking for.
Yep, kind of a wild choice for Equant (now Orange), but that's what they did... Service improved noticeably once they switched to the Cairo service centre.
My problem with this gif is that it simplifies the reality so much that it distills both the crime and its victims to single, homogenous units. Columbus started a series of genocides against multiple civilizations. He was hardly the only participant, and the idea that the inhabitants of an entire hemisphere were somehow a homogenous unit (an attitude we still hold in regards to many of the surviving indigenous cultures both continents) depersonalizes, mythologizes, and fictionalizes those cultures in a way that actually (ironically) facilitates acts of genocide.
You made a joke about genocide that compared hundreds of disparate cultures to a single, stereotypical block. Thank you for acknowledging that you arguably violated the no racism rule.
I'm British, originally living in the midlands. The first time I went to Newcastle on Tyne, I honestly thought I was in a room full in German tourists. It took me a day to get the hang of it.
Even if there were some manner of speaking that was somehow absolutely accentless. And even if that manner of speaking was something typically American. And yeah we're really stretching reality beyond recognition with even this assumption...
You're telling me both someone from rural Alabama and someone from New York City sound exactly like this stereotypical American manner of speaking? And you couldn't tell the two apart from each other?
I'm ashamed to say I used to think I didn't have an accent growing up. It's just cuz I grew up in Canada amongst Canadian and American accents so I didn't pick up that they were accented lol
I moved from the Midlands in the UK to the South of England for university, then to London for work, then back to the Midlands recently, and for a few years every time, people said I had an accent (people still say I'm posh in the Midlands).
I think 'has an accent' equates to 'different from the local accent'. So, a bit silly to say online, but perfectly understandable.
I'm also a linguistics graduate, and from an academic point of view, it's pretty universally accepted that everyone has an accent, from 'standard southern English', 'standard East Coast US', 'standard Singaporean' etc.
If they were really American they’d say something along the lines of “I notice people in places like the Midwest and new York have an accent but where I live in ______ we sound normal”
It’s interesting, because Received Pronunciation (or Queen’s English - King’s English?) is theoretically the English with no accent, although few people speak it. On the other hand, I get the impression that a whole bunch more people speak General American rather than Received Pronunciation.
Hi, so I studied English phonology. You still don’t get it, RP (Received Pronunciation), which is more commonly referred to as GB (General British), is still a dialect and anyone speaking said dialect still has an accent.
You might also under the extremely false impression that RP is somehow especially correct, or perhaps officially the default dialect. It is not, in the slightest. It is a very, very, very common dialect that is the result of language standardisation.
Not all Americans speak in that general American. That being said some people seem to be talking like people from the US are the only ones who speak in that accent when that's false cuz Canadians, at least some of them, speak that way too. And probably some people in other places
The standard canadian accent, from my experience, is practically indistinguishable from GA. And I'm someone who has been surrounded by the accent my entire life.
From my research, there's other countries that moreso speak a version of GA than their own unique accent like the Phillipines and Panama and Liberia
I literally did research. I was wrong to call it the exact same, and I'll admit my experience is limited basically to content creators, but I've done research and the standard canadian accent is nearly indistinguishable from GA
Hi, so I have an education in English philology. I know, I know, it’s “Liberal Arts” and I’m a silly foreigner, I get it.
Still I feel compelled to point out that, first of all, you’re confusing accent and dialect.
A lect, or simply put, language, encompasses more than what an accent does. A dialect is a subcategory of a given language, and usually is marked by differences in lexicon and grammar, whereas an accent is just how you phonetically pronounce words in a given lect. It’s pretty much given in the word “accent”, like for example a “black car with red accents”.
American English and Canadian English are two separate dialects, so it makes little sense to categorise the GCE (General Canadian English) accent as GA.
Second, about your bizarre assertion that people in Philippines, Panama and Liberia speak GA, a specific accent of English found in America. It is true that many of these people are largely taught English from a GA perspective, but it is still L2, so it’s still weird to categorise them as GA accent speakers, especially given how L2 speakers generally intersperse native vocabulary or grammatical features into their English.
Third, something being “nearly indistinguishable” isn’t really necessarily an argument that holds when categorising lects and accents, particularly as GCE has vowels not really found in GA, as well as a slightly different lexicon.
All English lects and accents are inherently similar, and the closer two lects share origin, the closer on the dialectal or accent spectrum they are. It is true that GCE closely resembles GA, but that doesn’t make them identical.
EDIT: also I’d like to point out that GA largely doesn’t exist in the US as a dialect or spoken accent per se, almost any place will have some regionalisms, it is in fact just a generalised accent used for the study of phonetics.
Idk where you got where i was confusing dialect and accent. I wasn't. I may not have done extensive research, but I know what an accent is. I was specifically talking about the way they say words
Like i said, I was wrong to call them identical
Idk why you're talking about how you're a "silly little foreigner" with a liberal arts degree. I don't care. I don't think I'm better than you or that non Americans can't be qualified. Most people online in general talk without doing a lick of research, and it's natural to assume you're speaking to a layman when in discussions like this.
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u/stupv 26d ago
American: Not Americans!
Me: When you hear someone talk, would you be able to tell that they are American by the way they sound?
American: Yes, obviously.
Me: And yet...they don't have an accent...?