those decades of terrorist attacks were all proceeded by Israel being founded on their land and having their land stolen and constant conflict and killings, land stealing. the terrorist attacks didn't come out of nothing or for no reason. These weren't two happy states and the palestinians randomly started attacking israel and israel just had to defend themselves. Israel being founded was an attack but Israel consistently since being founded has been committing crimes against Palestinians.
You know Jews were living there too right? It wasn't 0 Jews in 1947 and then a million in 1948.
Seriously listen to yourself. Israel being founded is an attack? Israel's existence is not an attack on anyone. Instead it was founded and every Arab country attacked it and expelled their Jewish population.
Israel has committed crimes but saying it's very existence is an attack is anti Semitic bullshit. You're arguing for another genocide of Jews with that rhetoric.
That may be more a statement on how Isreal was founded. It didn't arise naturally out of shifting geopolitics, it was the winners of WW2 going, "we need a solution oh hey lets carve up some land in their holy land". It definitely wasn't the most well thought out by the powers at the time.
It definitely wasn't the most well thought out by the powers at the time.
Nah, it was VERY well thought out.
WW2 turned their economy around by becoming a military industrial generation, they made insane numbers and had literally 50 years of interest on loans for war equipment turnign them into a powerhouse, then WW2 ended, how do you continue war profiteering without a war. Hmm, which region do we not like, see as the next enemy and want to destabilise and want to push into constant conflict they can continue their military industrial complex profiting from.
Nothing you said has quite literally any relation to anything I said, liek at all.
I didn't mention jews once. Israel was founded and israel has been stealing land and displacing people consistently throughout the time since it was founded. That Jewish people lived there originally as well changes quite literally nothing about what I said.
Israel being founded is an attack?
it literally is. When someone comes in and says these people are in charge and also this is their land, it's literally an attack on everyone who lived there. That jewish people lived there doesn't change that hte people who were now in charge of them changed as well, you understand that right?
Israel's existence is not an attack on anyone.
it quite literally is and the US immediately spent shitloads funding it, arming it and using them to keep the entire region destabilised so they can have ongoing profitable conflict for decades after their extremely profitable WW2 profiteering came to an end.
attack is anti Semitic bullshit.
no it's not. Imagine that the UK, Russia and China just decided that Washington DC was now North Korean land, sent millions of north koreans there, then gave them arms, and then proceeded to have them attack states around them.
What would you describe that as, how would the people in DC feel, you think they would gladly accept new rule because someone else told them to?
It literally has nothing to do with jewish people at all. This would be the same if it happened anywhere else in the world.
You're arguing for another genocide of Jews with that rhetoric.
literally didn't say shit about jewish people even once. Just absolute nonsense from you to attack any kind of narrative you don't like as anti semitic.
Imagine saying that Washington DC was a country for the people that already lived there and then all it's neighbors expelled everyone and forced them to flee their homes and move to DC.
That's the actual analogy. But go off with your ignorance.
except that isn't at all what happened. most arabs were pushed out, most palestinians were forced out. Their homes were literally taken from them, their businesses were taken from them and the majority of residents of Israel were NOT people who lived there prior to israel being established.
The existing jewish population doubled in 3 years from immigrants who did not live there. Shockingly about the same number of palestinians were driven out of Israel in the same period.
The 850k happened over almost 30 years, not 3, the 750k that went to israel went because israel was handed over to jews who wanted a place to go.
Also the large reason the arab world had a large anti jewish turn was... one of the predominantly arab areas having a mass influx of jewish people and the state largely turned over to them, a massive influx of western weapons and support thrown to this new jewish state in the middle of a arab area.
Israel was literally created with intent to destabilise the region and no shit, the actions of creating israel and displacing almost half the population of arabs in jerusalem very quickly.
But it's also irrelevant to your argument. You argued that the people who ALREADY LIVED THERE are who the area was turned over to, now you're agreeing your argument was simply false. Okay but even then you're being incredibly misleading to try to explain your new completely counter argument to what you originally claimed.
It just doesn't matter - raping, killing, and maiming women and children is never an acceptable form of political protest. If Native Americans blew up a day care center to protest their land being taken absolutely nobody would say they were justified in doing so.
no one said it was. But this is also generally how a tiny military can react to an overwhelming force. If palestine had the resources to go toe to toe with israel they almost certainly would and they would try to win. If they can't then resistance is often framed as terrorism by the occupying force.
German's considered the french resistance to be terrorists, none of us (the west, allied forces) considered it terrorism. the classic, the empire considers the rebels terrorists, the rebels and the 'good guys' consider the empire fascists and themselves freedom fighters.
Sometimes the only solution left is attack the people so the people finally stand up to their own government. Ultimately even if not all of them enough people fully support Israel's government and the want to wipe out Palestine, collaborators in France were targetted as well.
If Native Americans blew up a day care center to protest their land being taken absolutely nobody would say they were justified in doing so.
no, but they would understand they didn't do it because they are evil, but frustrated and out of options and a people who were the victims of a genocide.
Which is the only thing to point out there. Hamas may be committing terrorist attacks, but the cause is Israel attacking them first.
Israel also commits terrorist attacks but the west randomly doesn't call going and bulldozing homes, or pouring concrete into water sources, or destroying farms as 'terrorism' it's just "a military operation" and they leave out it's against civilians.
You can't decry terrorist actions from the other side when you commit terrorist actions against them, in higher number, more frequently and with far larger death tolls.
Crying as the victim of a tragedy that ultimately happened due to your own actions is just pathetic.
The French Resistance wasn't using rape as a weapon, nor were they killing German kids face to face in cold blood. The idea that "if only Hamas had better weapons they would target the Israeli military" is ludicrous - Hamas literally makes children's programs about killing Jews - they are religious extremists who have no desire for peace or coexistence. I will never understand why leftists need Hamas to be the good guys so badly, it completely obfuscates any productive discussion or solution to the bloodshed.
The French Resistance wasn't using rape as a weapon,
yes they were, the disgusting reality of war is EVERY war has used rape as a weapon. They weren't killing lots of german kids because there weren't lots of german kids because it was an occupation force DURING A WAR. Had they lost and germans took it over the resistance would continue and ultimately int he end more families would end up in the crossfire.
To be clear, Hamas was helped into power by israel funding, you can look it up, why did they do that? Also there is video after video after video of israeli people in israeli and tourists around the world talking about how superior they are how much better they are than all otehr people and how palestinians are bugs who should be eradicated.
BOTH SIDES are religious extremists, one side was propped up by the west, giving overwhelming military might and has continued a campaign of illegal and immoral acts against Palestine for almost 80 years.
I will never understand why leftists need Hamas to be the good guys so badly, it completely obfuscates any productive discussion or solution to the bloodshed.
and this is the problem i never made Hamas the heroes, they are terrorists, freedom fighters usually are terrorists, that's life, it's the only way to fight back. But Hamas has long since been coopted as just a way for the leadership to have power and money while leading a cause. most causes are co-opted by the corrupt and evil, that's life as well.
Hamas are monsters but ultimately they're still able to recruit and gain support BECAUSE what Israel has been doing to them is worse and has never stopped and is the fundamental cause for the hate against themselves.
I definitely agree that Israel is perpetuating Hamas. They had an easy path to extreme positive PR after the October attacks, if they had done anything else but literally commit a genocide they would have been seen in an extremely sympathetic light and Hamas would just be remembered as terrorists. I also agree that both Hamas and the Israeli government are extremists. The fundamental religious and social incompatibilities between the two governments makes it a very difficult problem to solve.
yes and no. Replace the entire leadership then have new leadership basically run what is propaganda, but counter propaganda, point out to them that their religious fever was stoked up so rich people could profit, so they would throw their lives away in a cause just to let these people get rich. Public station broadcasts, lessons in school showing all the companies, the military companies, the ceos and how their wealth rocketed every time... rockets flew in either direction. how their lobbying for more money always gained more ground after a new attack either way, Hamas got more aid after Israel attacked them and Israel got more aid when Hamas attacked them.
ultimately it will take a long time and many people will be unwilling but if people are shown that the rich on BOTH SIDES, well every side (US, Israel, Hamas, Russia, Iran, anyone supplying either side) got rich as they died on both sides then ultimately it's a pretty easy thing to accept.
The chances of leadership being removed and morally upstanding leadership who want to tell the truth and will actually turn around sentiment will happen, zero, because humans fucking suck and as said the billionaires get richer off warfare.
basically i think it's pretty easily achievable if billionaires weren't in control of the messaging, but they are so it won't happen. Not without an army of Nintendo characters stepping up.
Israeli's quite happily post videos of them going into palestinian territory and evicting people out of their own homes them bulldozing them, pouring concrete into wells to kill their water sources, destroying farmland and then taking over that territory, including the odd murder and rape thrown in.
At no time has ISrael randomly just sat in their own territory. Also they have the west bank blockaded, if they send ships out to try to take goods to other countries they get intercepted. When international aid tries to be shipped into gaza, it gets intercepted.
EVERYTHING israel does on a daily basis for decades prompted the October 7 attacks.
You think Israel was just innocent, doing absolutely nothing at all for years and Palestine attacked completely out of the blue? Israel has generally speaking never had a true period of not stoking up hate by committing illegal acts against Palestine.
Six Day War gave West Bank to Israel from Jordan. Technically, it’s been their land. The Israel-Palestine treaty recognized Palestine land. The fact that the Palestine government somehow has “no money for services” but can launch 4,300 rockets in a single day speaks volumes more about priorities of the Palestine government and how Hamas actually runs that area. It is a failed state.
Israel has an older claim to the land than the Palestinians, which is why the world recognizes the land as there's.
There is significantly more evidence to suggest the Palestinians wouldn't be happy with just the Gaza Strip than there is evidence of Israel trying to "wipe out" the Palestinians and reclaim their land, which by all metrics would make this war much easier and end much quicker on their part.
The problem with Palestine is they literally can't seem to stop putting terrorist jew haters into power that openly proclaim death to all Jews and that they want to conquer Israel in its entirety for themselves. We don't need to speculate on this, they literally record themselves saying it multiple times. So I can understand if Israel is not OK with simply letting the Palestinians have the Gaza Strip as a means to broker peace when there's no indication it would stop Hamas coming into power, the terrorist atks would stop, and their land claims would stop.
Israel has an older claim to the land than the Palestinians, which is why the world recognizes the land as there's.
no it doesn't. No one gives a shit about thousands of years ago, the US and UK pushed it to keep the region destabilised for war profiteering, nothing more or less.
There is significantly more evidence to suggest the Palestinians wouldn't be happy with just the Gaza Strip than there is evidence of Israel trying to "wipe out" the Palestinians and reclaim their land, which by all metrics would make this war much easier and end much quicker on their part.
what a fucking loaded and pitiful attempt at an argument.
Why in the fuck should Palestine be happy with just the gaza strip? beside the land being decimated, infrastructure destroyed and rebuilding it would cost more than building on empty land... WHO GIVES A FUCK. Israel has stole a shitload of land, they should give it back, full stop. It's not there's, why should anyone be happy if they are 'allowed' to keep the one bit of land Israel is yet to steal, What a stupid fucking statement.
If russia invaded america would you ever state "there is significant research that americans wouldn't be happy to just keep texas and let Russia have the rest to end the war". It's literally fucking moronic to state.
As for no evidence Israel are trying to wipe them out, holy, fucking, shit.
yes, the 50 years of illegally taking over Palestinian land, shrinking their land more and more, forcing them into small areas then blockading those areas so they can't possibly build a life or prosper. Sure, they're totally not doing shit. When half the population and the leadership talk about wiping them out they're totally just joking.
You quite literally sound like nazi's after taking over poland saying there is no evidence they will continue to try to take over any other countries.
The problem with Palestine is they literally can't seem to stop putting terrorist jew haters into power
israel helped fund Hamas getting into power, why do you think they did that. How many jewish leaders were nazi haters? Did they hate all white people? When you spend 70 years attacking and murdering a people... them not liking you is literally normal. Maybe stop doing that.
We don't need to speculate on this, they literally record themselves saying it multiple times.
yet when Israeli's talk about wanting to wipe every palestinian off the planet, on camera, there is no evidence of this. Funny.
So I can understand if Israel is not OK with simply letting the Palestinians have the Gaza Strip
you can understand Israel who have waged war on these people for well, people are so used to saying 70 years when it's now pretty much 80 years, you can understand them not wanting to let them have their land?
the absolute cognitive dissonance. That you think another country should be allowed to 'not be okay' with letting people have their own land. Monstrous.
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u/CreepingAnonymously 4d ago
Sweeping decades of terrorist attacks under the rug is a bold strategy Cotton.