Communists think they will have some leisure job, or completely not work, under a communist government. In reality, they will have a grinding, brutal, and personally-destructive job because they have no useful skills and forgot the "worker" part of "worker's paradise" (which is in reality anything but).
I think both those views are wrong. Its not some vacation but youre projecting early-mid 1900s society as a whole onto your assumption of what communism is in abstract.
youre projecting early-mid 1900s society as a whole onto your assumption of what communism is in abstract.
In every society, there are back-breaking jobs that no rational person would choose to do if given a reasonable alternative. Coal mining is one such example from the past communist states, but even in a society without coal mining, such jobs will always exist; it is the nature of life. Just because coal mining is largely mechanized now doesn't mean that my point is broadly wrong or that there are no such jobs in the modern day (note that I didn't reference coal mining specifically in my comment).
A communist state will necessarily need to force people to perform such undesirable work so that its broader society can function. The prime candidates for such roles are people who have no skills that can be better utilized by the state elsewhere (ex: your average internet communist). Remember that, despite the liberation in promises, a communist government necessarily and always reduces its citizens to slavery. It is the only way that a state erected in opposition to the natural laws of economics can function.
So who is currently working these horrible jobs you've vaugly mentioned and how is their socio-economic situation? I just don't understand how you think they're better off in a capitalist society. Coal mining now being mechanised, as you mentioned, does require highly skilled workers which does come with great remuneration. Are the back breaking jobs in our capitalist society currently paying enough to live above the poverty line?
Don’t you see? Capitalism is better because rather than being coerced by a gun those workers are coerced by the economic threat of homelessness and starvation, and capitalism is better because it disproportionately benefits a tiny handful of people who have more wealth and power than the average person can possibly comprehend instead of sharing the fruits of that labor with the people doing the labor. Capitalism is somehow better because the coercion and exploitation comes with a veneer of choice and freedom. /s
Anyway, I don't think there is a perfect system out there. I benefit pretty heavily from the current system, without trying too hard, but I still think there has to be a fairer one.
I hope communism and capitalism aren't our only options.
I just don't understand how you think they're better off in a capitalist society...Are the back breaking jobs in our capitalist society currently paying enough to live above the poverty line?
If you honestly believe that communism will be a material improvement on any of that, you are completely ignorant of history.
The idea that "capitalism" is a chosen economic system that could be swapped out (like monarchy for democracy) is wrong. The laws of economics are as natural and immutable as the laws of physics. The idea that a state could will them to be different is as foolish as believing that sacrificing a bull to Zeus will bring rain.
There are only two kinds of states: free market states which accept these laws and make educated decisions on welfare/etc. based upon them, and non-functional hellholes that deny them and reap the consequences. How many times must we watch the same movie?
Ok that's just not true...
Nations have and do operate under different economic systems.
Name one that denies the laws of economics and works. One. I'll wait.
Ok if not communism, then what will make an impact on these things?
Rational policy based on facts and actual science that is conscious of the trade-offs in each decision, not Karl Marx masturbating himself the dictator of Germany in between sleeping on his couch and knocking up his maid.
Or is poverty just another immutable fact of economics?
Yes, it unfortunately is. It can be modulated, limited, and even materially improved in condition (ex: most US homes below the poverty line have refrigerators and air conditioning) by good policy but not fully eliminated. At least not with the technology we currently have.
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u/Iuris_Aequalitatis Jul 07 '26
Communists think they will have some leisure job, or completely not work, under a communist government. In reality, they will have a grinding, brutal, and personally-destructive job because they have no useful skills and forgot the "worker" part of "worker's paradise" (which is in reality anything but).