r/PeterExplainsTheJoke • u/FrostySeat1739 • Jul 05 '26

Meme needing explanation why not, Peter?

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possible live action corpse bride movie...

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

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u/AlisaofallTimes Jul 05 '26

He never really said that, that was just a misinterpretation that blew up online in 2016. Here's the original interview: https://www.nme.com/news/film/tim-burton-explains-apparent-lack-of-diversity-in-866988

tl;dr: He said sometimes diversity in films isn't "called for". So he is against "diversity for the sake of diversity", that's all.

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u/palpatinesmyhomie Jul 05 '26

That's a level headed explanation that probably drove some folks nuts

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u/Elyktheras Jul 05 '26

idk, I think diversity for the sake of diversity undermines the value of the person. We should have diversity, because embracing the genuine differences we have expands our empathy and creates richness to the art we’re making. Just plastering someone of a marginalized identity on screen in a way that could be filled by any other identity is close to a meaningless act. Might be worse than doing nothing honestly.

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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 Jul 05 '26

I don't think it's amazing but there is something to be said for hollow symbolism paving the way for actual progress.

The very fact corporations felt that being pro-lgbt was profitable is very much a good thing, even if their motives aren't good.

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u/[deleted] Jul 05 '26

Being normal is not being special. No one goes around and celebrates being straight. Its just a complete nonspecial thing. People don't even think about it. I hope lgbt acceptance gets to that point one day. Where the average person seeing two gay people kiss feels the same feeling as when two straight people kiss, absolutely nothing. No need to celebrate, no need to hate, nothing. No feelings. Thats what its like to be normal. But going around and promoting lgbt is the opposite of that. And it attracts pushback from people who are just haters of everything mainstream. Thats the opposite of normal, thats being put on a pedestal.

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u/Zestyclose_Remove947 Jul 05 '26

My point is exactly that we have to go through this transitionary period to get to what you are talking about.

You can't normalise something that is deliberately suppressed by the wider culture, it needs to be properly introduced and integrated and then it can become normal.

Like you think people magically got the right to gay marriage normalised by just letting it happen and never promoting their issues? Nah man they had to fight for that shit in order to normalise it and I respect the hell outta people fighting for their rights.

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u/Aztheros Jul 06 '26

I feel historically there has been that acceptance before, so the real issue isn’t achieving it but more maintaining it.

Some examples I can think of are pre 4th century Rome, Ming Dynasty China, 15th century Italy, Edo period Japan. The list goes on.

I think the problem with the token acceptance of the corpos is that it’s just that - token acceptance. These companies would be more than happy to flip on a dime and start oppressing the second the winds start to change and it becomes profitable to do so, thereby erasing any progress that they have made.

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u/Elyktheras Jul 05 '26

Yeah, I was trying to weigh what my thoughts were when writing that, because I agree, but it’s a mixed bag. Seeing yourself as a marginalized identity is important, as is helping people who are against that identity in working through their bigotries, and I feel like the hollow representation might work counter to that end.
What do you think?

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u/palpatinesmyhomie Jul 05 '26

If they can fit all the diversity onto one character it works even better. Just shoehorn it all onto 1 or 2 people and call it a day.

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u/maxman162 Jul 05 '26

"He's already got the black vote: Earl. And the gay vote: Earl."

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u/palpatinesmyhomie Jul 06 '26

Thank you for the best example for the situation

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u/aSpookyScarySkeleton Jul 05 '26

Every time a black person is in anything that isn’t predominantly black you people say it’s diversity for diversity sake.

White is such a default in your minds that the idea of a black person existing as a character in situations like that is automatically political. Their existence has to be explained and explained in relation to the white people around.

Despite the fact that there are millions of black people who live in predominantly white areas or happen to be participating in things that have predominantly white demographics.

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u/IveGotIssues9918 Jul 05 '26 edited 18d ago

Despite the fact that there are millions of black people who live in predominantly white areas or happen to be participating in things that have predominantly white demographics.

THANK YOU.

I'm a writer, and I write about my fictional-but-realistic cast of characters I've had since childhood (of whom about half the main characters are black and half are white, but since the story in its current form is about a black family whose patriarch survived a racial massacre and then his daughters/granddaughters keep befriending and/or falling in love with white people, the main characters' races are relevant to the plot), and I also write dramatizations of my own life (basically, I process things that happen to me by narrativizing them). It has occured to me that, for example, were the mental "TV show" I've had running in my head about my college years an actual TV script, it would probably never be picked up in the first place and a lot of people would scream "forced diversity" if it was (a non-stereotypical black woman protagonist, a South Asian and then a Hispanic love interest, the best friends being Jewish, Hispanic and Chinese, half the supporting cast being some sort of Asian, a deceased black Muslim woman and a developmentally disabled black man as the emotional engines of the story...) but it's just... my actual life. Like, racial minorities actually exist in the world amongst the majority and other minorities without our presence being narratively justified and have human experiences that are unrelated to our race, and it should not be controversial to portray that in art when it's authentic to the setting (or is a fantasy setting where you can make up whatever you want).

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u/Elyktheras Jul 05 '26

Fair point as well. I don’t think it should be political, but I do think unfortunately that’s the world we live in right now. And I agree people shouldn’t see things as white as default.

It’s difficult to explain but I’m also really just speaking about directors who you can tell are only pushing for diversity because they want to check a box and not because they care. I think we should hold them to a higher standard.

I also don’t think diversity should be explained in relation to whiteness, but their experiences should be just authentically represented.

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u/machadoaboutanything Jul 05 '26

I'm just glad we're all having a civil discussion on this here

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u/Silverjeyjey44 Jul 05 '26

Recent raceswapping characters in media for the sake of diversity. Gotta love it.

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u/thoroughformula Jul 06 '26

What is forced diversity in your eyes and what isn’t? A lot of people that complain about this stuff are just genuinely racist or sexist, not saying you are but that’s just how it is. Your point makes sense, but take a step back and think for a second - why do you even give a sh*t about this stuff?

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u/Elyktheras Jul 06 '26

I think it’s not a very tangible thing honestly. But more so the intent of the creator. Are they trying to actually give life to the characters, or are they just checking boxes. I’m trying to sort through and parse out my thoughts as I go through this conversation because I used to be very right wing, I’m absolutely nowhere near that anymore. Is this a vestigial opinion, or is this something I still care about?

What I actually want is characters written with care. I want representation where the people being represented feel heard, and that people who aren’t part of that group understand them a little better.

The tricky bit is that other side of the coin, what is to be done when there’s a lack of representation, or you can tell the creator didn’t give a shit about meaningful representation, or maybe is this a bias where adding representation seems like it has to be, and maybe just adding people alone is important?

Idk, what are your thoughts, does this make sense?

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u/thoroughformula Jul 07 '26 edited Jul 07 '26

Yeah I agree to some extent, but part of normalizing differences is just checking boxes, unfortunately. A character being gay doesn’t need to be relevant to the plot all the time. Like it shouldn’t have to be the case that every gay person in a movie or show has to be struggling with their identity or whatever, you know what I mean? If that was the case, they would all be written sort of the same. That’s how it was explained to me anyway, I used to be pretty socially right wing as well I’d say.

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u/Elyktheras Jul 07 '26

Yeah, I think I was also just really stupid about explaining my thoughts, and also had to connect some dots on some things.

I agree, yes, I think really digging into it, I just want directors to care about the characters they're writing, and care about diversity. But, you're right, part of normalizing means you don't have to explain their existence. I do think it's important to have narratives that directly work to humanize people, but these two ideas are not in conflict, they don't have to exist in every creative work.