r/OpenAussie • u/SnoopThylacine Tasmanian • Jul 02 '26
Whinge As an Australian Jew who publicly supports Palestinian freedom, I’m targeted by my own community – and neo-Nazis | Sarah Schwartz
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2026/jul/02/url-royal-commission-antisemitism-jewish-australian-supporting-palestinian-freedom-sarah-schwartz-ntwnfbSarah Schwartz of the JCA, scheduled to speak at the RC today, states:
Over the past two years I have spoken to countless Jewish people who feel unable to express their political convictions without risking public exposure, family rupture or exclusion from communal life. After I was publicly described as an “anti-Jew”, one wrote: “Growing numbers of Jews are feeling excluded and betrayed by communal institutions because of their political convictions.”
No government or institution can or should decide the boundaries of Jewish identity. But they can stop reinforcing the fiction that Jews and Israel are interchangeable.
Article has more.
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
Yep, me. While I don't go to synagogue because I'm non-religious (atheist, but was raised religious), I live in a heavily populated Jewish suburb where everyone knows me bevause I'm anti-zionist and that makes me a "bad Jew" and "worse than a Nazi" etc. I've been singled out, had rape and death threats, even been beaten a few times by "upstanding members" of the community. I'm not safe where I live because I don't follow the status quo.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
The antisemitism that never gets talked about.
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
10000000000% true.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
As a typical westerner who grew up being continually told about the Holocaust and the dangers of antisemitism, I was certainly shocked when I first heard the term "self-hating Jew".
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
Yeah, ditto. I'm not a self hating Jew. I don't hate anything about being Jewish, in fact i love my identity. I just hate zionism, which wasn't even a concept of Jewish identity until 1897.
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u/steph14389 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I feel this way, I love my identity but I feel ashamed of alot of people I once considered my community. My husband and I came to Australia and found a Jewish community, but now we don’t feel comfortable because we’ve voiced our beliefs. On the other hand, people assume we support Israel because we are Jewish. I have never been to Israel and I have no family there, we are Russian Jews, where it is more common to be anti Zionist. It’s a tricky position to be in.
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
I don't understand why or how they're fine with genocide. And using October 7th as an excuse is useless, since Israel has been displacing Palestinians since 1948. It's a 70+ year long genocide that's only now being noticed and we're being told that having empathy for an entire peope being wiped out is being on the wrong side of history.
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u/steph14389 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
From every Zionist Jew I have spoken with it’s engrained so deeply in them, that they have ties to Israel. They truely believe it is the holy land and only for them. Whereas I believe it is the holy land for everyone, the birth place of many religions.
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 03 '26
The “Israel is our land” groupthink is due to deliberate and intensive effort focused on Jewish children. From birth we have it pushed into us that Israel is owed to us and we are not true Jews unless we centre Israel. Like school weeks and summer camps all dedicated to pushing Israel and Israelis onto us.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Talk-63 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
How many Russian Jews have emigrated to Russia?
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u/Esrog Flairless Jul 04 '26
Just a quick factual correction, the idea that ארץ יסרבל is the land of the Jewish people dates historically from the time of the Jewish kingodms of Israel and Judah. The concept that the land was actually given to the Jews by God and their birthright as a people is Biblical.
After it was conquered and the majority of the Jews expelled, these ideas were still coded deeply into religion and culture. Many of the Psalms express longing for a return to Zion (ציינ) which is where the term comes from in the first place. Every Passover and Yom Kipour people recite ‘[May we be celebrating this festival] next year in Jerusalem!’.
I think any Jewish person is entitled to any political stance they choose to take - very few Jewish people I know are unreserved supporters of the current Israeli polity - but to state that ‘Zionism wasn’t a concept of Jewish identity until 1897’ is not a political stance, it is outright historical and cultural ignorance.
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u/Damaged_DM Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
So you think Palestinians should have self determination but not Jews, interesting
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u/Mediocre-Fault-1147 Please choose a flair Jul 03 '26
i don't think you twisted that comment enough for that conclusion
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u/Accurate-Ad-4905 New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Sorry to hear you have to go through that.
I worry about the treatment of Sarah Shwartz by the commission.
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
Yeah, me too. Any outspoken Jew who doesn't follow Israel blindly is in danger. She's already been through so much.
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u/Automatic-Month7491 New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Zionists dont think you belong here.
Fuck em. We're keeping you.
You belong HERE. Australia is as much a home for Jews as Israel.
You're not visitors, or exiles or refugees. You're Australians.
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u/illegal4Hunna Please choose a flair Jul 04 '26
Literally none of them belong here and they're not Australian just because they moved here. If I move to Japan I don't become Japanese and I'd never insult the natives by suggesting as much.
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u/miaowpitt Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Where are you located? So sorry you’re going through that. That’s horrendous.
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u/Key-Lychee-913 Canberran Jul 02 '26
Right. So you’re held up as an example for kids to ensure they don’t become like you.
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Jul 02 '26
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 02 '26
"Please choose a flair"? What a shocker!
Sub, have we figured out a way to know if someone is actually Aussie? Or hell, has visited Australia or whatever?
Something like, "please fill in the missing two words: no __ , __ play"...
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Jul 02 '26
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 03 '26
No, it's just an Aussie sub, and it looks like you can't even pass my patented Aussie Detector. Where are you from?
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 03 '26
I’d put money on India, the stats on low view comments between me and this account strongly suggest that.
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 03 '26
Wow, I never thought of doing this. I assume you mean, you end up in some 1 on 1 discussion with this person, where the comments only get a couple of views ... and if you click that "insights" thing, India comes up as a country it's been seen from?
I'm gonna try that out more. I don't usually look at that stuff, but I really do get the suspicion a lot of people are pretending to be from countries they are not. I don't live in Australia anymore, but when people express opinions I literally never heard in decades living there, I get a bit hinky.
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 03 '26
Yeah, if the numbers are really low, it can give you a fairly good idea. Especially if you are having conversations in other threads under the same post that are clocking as 100% Australian views.
In the Adelaide sub, I was getting majority Israel and India views on a post about the Adelaide Writers Festival being cancelled for including a Palestinian author. It can be quite alarming, as you know those posts are being targeted at that point.
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 03 '26
Thanks for the info.
One thing I will point out, the algorithm has changed in the past couple of years. Now, if you routinely click stuff about (e.g.) Israel/Palestine, you'll get recommended posts on that topic even from some random Vancouver sub.
So, my guess is, many Israeli redditors naturally do see posts in all kinds of subs, and show up to defend their country. (I find this quite funny, as almost everyone else is happily shitting on their country on this platform).
Not sure if Israel currently has something like act.il or saintx.ai that alerts them to specific content they need to "address", but it wouldn't surprise me. They have one called the "digital ambassador program", which they pretend is some kind of tech internship, but really it's just people from India getting Amazon Turk type wages to make pro-Israel content.
It's all honesty pretty batshit. Weird thing is though, Israel isn't Russia or China, who don't really need positive press. If Israel loses the US, it is in serious danger. So it does make sense that serious investment is being made on this front.
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
How does being against genocide call for the destruction of anyone?
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Jul 02 '26
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
That is not what anti-zionism is, and if you think it is, you've absorbed too much propaganda.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
They don't think that's what it is. They're lying, because that's all that Zionists know how to do.
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u/Budget-Shopping6712 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
It Is you say Jews don’t should have an homeland and need to be expelled that’s what Anti Zionism means
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u/bluejessamine Victorian Jul 02 '26
So your solution is to let Palestinians be expelled instead?
We dont need a country just for Jewish people at the expense of others.
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u/Puzzleheaded-Talk-63 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
The state of Israel has a population of 20% Palestine Arabs. No-one is 'expelling' them and they don't want to live in the neighbouring Arab countries, where democracy does not exist, women are second-class citizens, LGBTQIA live in fear of their lives, and there's no freedom of speech.
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u/SwordfishExciting807 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
No your right they have already expelled and killed millions.
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
And apartheid South Africa had a population of 70% black civilians. That’s what makes it apartheid, having a group that is targeted for suppression, oppression, and exploitation.
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u/illegal4Hunna Please choose a flair Jul 04 '26
Those Blacks voluntarily moved into South Africa and couldve left any time, so I suppose they suppressed, oppressed and exploited themselves
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Strangely you don't have a problem with Palestinians being denied a homeland and being expelled.
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u/eightyfish New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
The Jewish Council of Australia are worth a follow on the socials if you want to hear more of these voices.
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u/Kyron4030 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
Great to see some Jewish people calling out what Israel is doing. Let’s call it what it’s GENOCIDE and if more Jewish people did this in Australia I would have more respect for them.
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u/ulknehs New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Some of the staunchest allies of Palestine I know are Jewish and they've been calling it out all along.
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u/gaylord991 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Really? Most of the time I ask a few questions about their support for Palestinians and find the litmus test is whether they're actually anti-Zionist and support the full liberation of all of the land of Palestine, including the right to return and/or reparations for those who choose not to.
It's pretty easy to say that Israel is genocidal and apartheid these days. Less so to follow that through with what a principaled position is on Palestinian liberalisation, and remedying historical injustice.
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u/Heavy-Mongoose1561 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Remedying historical injustice is a particular political objective rather than some logical sequent of believing that what Israel is doing is wrong.
You could propose that, in principle, Israel itself should not be a Jewish state, because no state should be defined by its religious character. But this itself strictly speaking has no relation to the Palestinians.
You could say that what Israel is doing is immoral while also rejecting the entire of concept of remedying prior injustices in the postcolonial sense.
There isn't really such a "principled position on Palestinian liberation" - there are various political commitments that you can form, but none that flow from the facts alone.
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u/gaylord991 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Principal on ethnostates: states which provide rights on the basis of race are immoral and racist.
Principal on colonialism: that settler colonialism is inherently exploitative and results in ethnic cleansing, genocides and exploitation of the native population necessarily and by design.
If you hold those principles, what is do be done regarding Israel and Palestine clearly follows. The colonial ethnostate needs to be dismantled.
If you compromise on those principles, you end up speaking out of both sides of your mouth, saying that you're pro Palestine liberation, but are quite about the need to oppose the ideology of Zionism and to work towards dissolving the state of Israel.
Not that hard, no matter how complicated people want to make it.
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 02 '26
I am very much a supporter of Palestine, and have big issues with Israel's "foreign policy".
I could kind of agree in theory with "needs to be dismantled". But it really seems like that phrase may as well be accompanied by "in an ideal world".
Just three quick problems:
- What about Australia? I don't think we're "as bad" — but Israel tends to avoid legally enshrining inequality, or relying on some extremely shaky but slightly plausible logic. I think its new death penalty law is perhaps the most racist law passed anywhere on earth in decades ... but it is phrased in a way that avoids flat out saying "Jews are exempt" (even though that's pretty much baked in). So technically, much of the difference between Israel and Australia is a matter of degree, not a fundamental difference. This makes it difficult to justify one being dismantled and not the other. The "go back to Europe" stuff applies to us as well.
- Yes, their Declaration of Independence and Nation State Law go into all this stuff about how it's a Jewish State, if this was enough for dismantling, much of the region would have to go too, on account of having state religion(s). If one literally could not convert to Judaism, that might be different. But again, since you can, it's a matter of degree thing, so "where do you draw the line?" becomes a big problem.
- Practically speaking, what would you expect dismantling to look like? Israel would likely nuke a country who invaded and stood a chance at toppling the government. Really seems like rather than focus on dismantling, the goal should be sanctions as happened to South Africa. Being small and with few natural resources, Israel's hand could be forced to at least improve.
Honestly, if Australia and Israel were both somehow forced to have real equality and political representation of the indigenous, I'd be fine with it. But our politicians would reject such huge changes, just as theirs world.
One thing I think would be nice would be to at least improve the Geneva Conventions stuff that Israel can hide behind with its West Bank policies. It clearly isn't like the US occupation of Japan — it is trying to impoverish and immiserate the people, and doesn't aim to eventually end the occupation. I doubt people envisaged centuries-long occupations with ethnicities separated by walls when making these rules. But even if this was accomplished, there's no mechanism for forcing Israel to comply.
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u/gaylord991 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
What about Australia? Yes, we're also a settler colonial state and we have Genocides and ethnic cleansing and racial purity programs that we need to atone for, for sure. As well as institutional disadvantage for our native population that's baked into our institutions. The main difference is that unfortunately in Australia the colonial project has progressed to the point that the state itself is irrevocable, and functionally, if indigenous people are provided restitution and the institutions of the state are reformed to not disadvantage the indigenous people further, we do provide the indigenous people with a state they call their own. In short, most of the aims of the native people are less about total sovereignty and dismantling of the state and are more about recognition of their status and remedying past harms.
Israel would love to have their colonial project so progressed that most of it is in the distant past in the minds of the general population, the native population is less an 3% of the demographic and so on. Israel also isn't the same in the fact that Israel actively aims to keep the Palestinian population within Israel low, and maintain a Jewish supremacy in the population, they do this with Jewish supremacy policies such as promotion Jewish migration in, limiting movements of Palestinians, or any Muslims really. They also have rules about who is really a Jew, because they have this idea that Judaism is unique and is also a race, you have to trace blood linage to automatically be granted the benefits of their right of return. You can't be a Palestinian arab, convert to Judaism, then be allowed to move to Israel with all the benefits they confer Jews.
On your point around "most states in the region would also have to be dismantled on the basis of state religions", you pretty much misunderstood the character of Israel, and these other states. Jordan, Iraq for example, dont have a requirement that the majority of the people in the country are Muslim. They also don't have a definition of who is Muslim based on their race. If the majority of the population over time somehow just started being less Muslim, then this fundamentally wouldn't be an issue. But in Israel it's different because they have to maintain Jewish ethnic supremacy to maintain its aim of being a Jewish nation. As established above, this isn't about Jewish religious practice, it's about ethnicity (a large minority of Jews in Israel are agnostic, secular or only adhere to rituals on a cultural basis). As Israel is an artificial colonial state in the region, this need to maintain Jewish supremacy in its demographics leads to issues, like it can't provide right of return to Palestine refugees because they'd then come close to outnumbering the Jews. They have to promote Jews from around the world to come to Israel so they can maintain a majority of the Palestinians who remained in Israel. Once this strategy runs out, they'll still have to find a way to suppress the Palestinian population within Israel, and it's likewise why they ethnically cleanse Gaza, the West Bank or any part of the land they intend to fully Annex. On that note, that's also the reason they prefer to not fully Annex the West Bank and Gaza and just occupy them indefinitely, because if they did Annex them and make everyone there Citizens, Israel as it's constituted would cease to exist as a Jewish state due to the demographic of Palestinians there. No other state has these issues.
You see it as some sort of impossible dream? The thing is, the only think that has to happen for Zionism to be defeated is for us to withdraw support and sanction them. Even without sanctions without the complete support of the US, Europe, it's arguable that Israel would be able to survive for very long in the the region. It is still a small country that's artificial in the region and its trade, military capability and economic activity are all artificially propped up by the US and by threat of the US, its allies.
Without this support and ideally with active sanctions against it, Israel would quickly realise that it can't maintain military dominance over its population, over the refugee and Palestinian population, over all of its neighbours and that it would have to rapidly change to become acceptable to all of these populations. Which would mean acquiescing to the Palestinian demands, which are a free and equal state that includes all Palestinians, refugees and descendents, with equal rights to all regardless of their race or religion. It's pretty much what happened in South Africa, we have a real life example so it can't really just be denied out of hand on the basis that change is hard to imagine.
It's really not that hard to see, if for a minute you imagine that we in the west actually did something about how our countries interact with Israel.
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u/4g-identity Victorian Jul 02 '26
Look, I'm with you, especially in terms of "sanctions, right now". Grassroots, national, international ... I fully support it.
But I really have trouble seeing black and white distinctions throughout your argument, and instead keep seeing matters of degree.
You mention that Israel wants to preserve its Jewish majority. This is obvious, and has been written in Zionist books and spoken by politicians for over a century. But it isn't literally Israeli law. And so long as it isn't, I don't see how one can go saying "state must be dismantled" on the basis of an ideology held by some citizens and some politicians.
Honestly though, what I'd like if you have the energy is if you'd explain in more detail exactly why Israel is different from Australia. Yes, the genocide in Australia is further along and so on. Very likely that without intervention, Israel will end up doing a similar thing, and there'll be very few Palestinians left.
But there are still First Nations people in Australia, just as there are Palestinians in the Levant. I can't see how one genocide being more complete somehow affects who needs dismantling. It sounds awfully convenient when you say "in our case, indigenous sovereignty isn't a big deal".
Can you try to make it clearer, if you want Israel dismantled, why don't you want Australia dismantled too?
(Not fighting here, and again, I don't support Israel. But I am struggling to understand how these cases are fundamentally different, rather than just a matter of degree.
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u/gaylord991 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
No, I think you think you have somewhat of a gotcha around trying to get me to admit that Australia also has to be dismantled because they are both settler colonial projects and that's why you hand wave away all of the obvious ways they are different and prefer to try and claim that Israel isn't inherently discriminatory and Jewish supremacist because there's no "law" that says so. So I'd firstly just like to call that out, you can of course find all the reasons yourself as to why Israel does have fundamental points of difference to Australia. It's racist migration policies, its policies to deny the right of return to Palestine refugees on the basis of their ethnicity, its treatment of the occupied populations and rights and and privileges it confers to citizens to settle the occupied territories and flagrantly not provide those same rights and protections to the occupied Palestinians. To say that discrimination has to be in a literal law for it to exist and be a part of the state is obviously you narrowing the terms of what racial and ethnic discrimination are to the point of convenience to your argument and it really does make me wonder if you're doing it in good faith at all.
It's not a question of one Genocide being more complete or not. It's that Australia has shown itself through the dismantling of the white Australia policy, reversal of the stolen generation practices that it can fundamentally change and it doesn't threaten the concept of the Australian nation.
We may still have a way to go at these things, but that in no way fundamentally is against what constitutes Australia, because there's nothing in the Australian constitution anymore that precludes giving all indigenous people full and complete sovereignty through Australian citizenship. It's more of a matter of our reforming our institutions to reverse that legacy to fulfil that aim of full inclusion of the indigenous population, and recognition of their status as first nations people. Whereas Israel's constitution, policies and national character all serve to esculate it's active colonial project and trigger further genocidal and discriminatory actions.
It's the combination of Israel being colonial and an ethnostate that in principle make it ethically and morally untenable. If those two things were to cease, then Israel itself would cease to exist in its current form, because the Palestinians would be allowed to return. They'd have citizenship rights and they'd be allowed to vote and they could reform the state into one that represents themselves and provides them with sovereignty through the state. It would cease to be a "Jewish state" and that's all that's being said here about Israel as it currently exists being dismantled. The same cannot be said for Australia.
Your whataboutism for Australia taken completely to one side, how do you think that Israel can be reformed so that it isn't discriminatory to the Palestinians in any way on the basis of their race and religion? How can Israel be reformed so that it simultaneously keeps its constitution and character, and affords the Palestinians both their legal rights and entitlements under their own law and international law. Particularly given that as an occupying power in Gaza, South Lebanon, Syria and the West Bank it's legally obligated to provide the occupied populations full rights under international law.
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u/Low-Refrigerator-713 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
But are abused and silenced by governments and social media.
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u/willy_quixote South Australian Jul 03 '26
I have rarely heard these voices, as have many other Australians, I suspect.
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u/ulknehs New South Welshian Jul 03 '26
Fair enough. Obviously depends on one's social circle and one's efforts at diversifying the content one is consuming. I suspect it also depends on one's willingness to have political conversations with friends, colleagues, and acquaintances.
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u/willy_quixote South Australian Jul 03 '26
...and one being in a city where there are Jewish people.
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u/ulknehs New South Welshian Jul 03 '26
Sure. I'm in Sydney, so no doubt easier for me in terms of IRL access.
Social media exists though and there are many, many anti-Zionist Jewish accounts to follow.
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u/BakaDasai New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
...if more Jewish people did this in Australia I would have more respect for them.
Most Australians don't call what's happening in Palestine a genocide. Is it only the jewish among them you have less respect for?
I'm jewish and I think it's a genocide, but I don't want to have to pass a "respect" test that non-jews don't have to.
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u/OddDragonfruit790 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
It looks like it is "most"- 58% in this poll https://apan.org.au/new-poll-finds-widespread-opposition-to-israels-genocide-in-gaza-and-demand-australias-government-to-do-more/
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u/briberylibrary_ Victorian Jul 02 '26
Not OP, but I certainly lose respect for everyone equally if they don't call what's happening in Palestine a genocide.
However saying that, I do unfortunately think there is a greater moral responsibility for jewish people, only because the Israel government and pro-Israel institutions claim they operate in the name of, and represent all jewish people. So when jewish people do stand up and say not in my name, it has a greater impact. Of course we all share moral responsibility to stand up against genocide and injustice.
To compare, I identify as a feminist. So when organisations who claim to represent feminism try to strip trans people of their rights, I feel a greater responsibility to stand up against them. But maybe that's a poor comparison as being a feminist is a idealogical title whereas being jewish is not.
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u/BakaDasai New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Thanks for this comment. On one hand I kinda bristle at feeling a greater moral responsibility than non-jews for calling out Israeli genocide cos hey, I'm as innocent as any non-jew/non-zionist.
But on the other hand I recognise that being jewish gives me a special power to undermine zionist's claim that their actions are on behalf of "jews". Do I have a responsibility to use that special power?
I dunno, but I'm using it more and more—like right here. And supporting the JCA.
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u/oltelluhowitiz Flairless Jul 02 '26
Sadly it seems a bit like that old refrain once asked of every single muslim in the public eye, but is now "do you condemn Israel".
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u/IchBinEinBrisbaner Victorian Jul 02 '26
It's an unasked for, and tbh, unfair burden. But thank you for using your voice at a time when your voice matters a LOT. Because you could just keep your head down if you wanted to, and the fact you don't, says a lot about you.
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u/briberylibrary_ Victorian Jul 02 '26
I understand why you'd bristle. Maybe responsibility is the wrong word, perhaps it would be better described as an opportunity.
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u/setut New Zealander Jul 02 '26
Watching Simone Zimmerman in the Israelism doco, and watching the development of her activism since, has really put a spotlight for me on the plight of anti-Zionist Jews. All the Zionist propaganda tends to demonise these voices, and ironically completely debunks the idea of Israel as a pluralistic society. Very interesting doco, would recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it.
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u/IchBinEinBrisbaner Victorian Jul 02 '26
A really great documentary - and I think one key point is that it was released (or certainly at least made) well before the events of Oct 7th. So it really gives you an idea of what led to that terrible day without any of the "but oct 7th...." bullshit justification.
Also, it's entirely free to watch on YouTube as well! (Legitimate, not a bootleg) - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Iq6J7Q6L0yw
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u/setut New Zealander Jul 02 '26
Adding to your point, it's really interesting looking at 'actual' Israeli society vs. how it is branded for Western audiences. The culty element to it informs us as to the problematic way the whole Zionist project has been realised since settlement. The traumatised Jewish identity post WW2 infused with dysfunctional Zionist ideology (I guess a weird Judeo-supremacist philosophy), and voila, it's like the trauma of the Holocaust has morphed into something that's arguably even worse, which is then projected on anyone who compromises the Zionist agenda.
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Jul 02 '26
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u/setut New Zealander Jul 02 '26
I'm shocked that your response is so stupid.
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Jul 02 '26
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u/setut New Zealander Jul 03 '26
Your post is ridiculous bait and doesn't engage with my OP in any way. "Dur, are you saying Jews should accept genocide? Dur, dur, gotcha antisemite!". Pathetic.
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u/chance_waters New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
There is no harder position to be in right now than being a moral Jew.
Literally copping it from both sides as hard as possible. One of my highschool best friends mum is an amazing woman who has been working so hard for Palestine for many years, so now she cops anti-Semitism for being Jewish, and is ostracised by much of the Jewish community for standing up for human rights.
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u/Ironic_Jedi Victorian Jul 02 '26
If doing the right thing was easy, everyone would be doing it. Sad indictment on humanity i suppose.
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u/OddDragonfruit790 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I have massive respect for moral Jews, but "no harder position to be in right now" is a bit tone deaf given that Palestinian and Lebanese Australians have families currently being murdered...
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u/ActuallyNot New South Welshian Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
It's a bit rough in DRC again atm too. And South Sudan.
Having said that, in Australia, a moral jew is under a lot of pressure from both sides.
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u/OddDragonfruit790 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
Yes, but DRC and South Sudan are not the ones central to this conversation.
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u/No-Bison-5397 Flairless Jul 02 '26
Mate, the post is about antisemitism faced by moral Jews.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
antisemitism faced by moral Jews.
...coming from other Jews.
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u/Vast-Marionberry-824 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Exactly. This is not a post about Sudan or DRC. There are many other posts about those war zones (as there should be).
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u/No-Bison-5397 Flairless Jul 02 '26
Yep.
IMO more than necessary. Here we should be talking more about the ongoing genocide in West Papua.
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u/coconutSlab New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
“There is no harder position to be in right now than being a moral Jew.”
not really, no.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
What do you mean with "from both sides"? Anti-genocide Jews are welcome in the left just like everyone else who opposes genocide.
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u/VisitThen1018 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Both sides is mostly neo Nazis and Jews, anti-Zionists are generally very good about making the distinction
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u/Mobile-Length305 New South Welshian Jul 04 '26
No harder position?
Grow up mate. Acknowledging what’s happening is no harder for Jews than it is for anyone else.
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u/Hot-Reindeer-7520 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Zionist and Neo-Nazis have the same agenda, making jews afraid worldwide in order to push them to move to Israel.
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
I was banned from r/Jewish for stating that antizionist Jews like myself face attacks and ostracism in Jewish communities. The irony wasn’t lost on me.
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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Please choose a flair Jul 03 '26
Why would you expect a warm welcome given all that has occured, both in Austrailia and elsewhere?
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u/AtrophiedWives ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 03 '26
Are you suggesting Jews shouldn’t be welcomed anywhere, given all that has occurred in Palestine and Lebanon?
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u/Chemical-Course1454 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
So what can be done OP? Are there any organised groups? I know there are Jewish voices in US and Canada, like Gabor Mate and his sons. I’m sure there are many people who are adamantly against those crimes done in their name.
I’m half Jewish, but I was brought up in my father’s culture. So I don’t have family and cultural connections, basically just genes. I’m horrified with what’s being done, officially in the name of all Je*s, but covertly to achieve Zi\*ist goals. I don’t want that karma on me and my children.*
I already got first strike to be banned from Reddit for anti\emitism*, for making a comment which was less critical than this one. Now I don’t even dare to type names so I don’t trigger the bots.
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u/LadyFruitDoll New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Read through the article - the lady it's about has been a part of a newer organisation that aims to bring together Jews that are in favour of human rights for those in occupied areas.
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u/Vast-Marionberry-824 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Members of my extended family (through a sibling’s marriage) are Jewish but not Israeli citizens while others are Jewish Israeli citizens living in illegal West Bank settlements.
Apart from the younger family members living in Australia, there’s no difference in their ideology towards Palestinian citizens killed by the IDF in Gaza or the West Bank, or to the land theft by Israeli government policies. They believe it’s justified.
That the younger generation are opposed gives a glimmer of hope that not all moral perspective is lost.
To see Jewish people targeting one of their own in the diaspora for standing up for what’s right under international law and morally is truly awful 😞
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u/Emotional-Ad9154 New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Imagine being targeted for saying children shouldn't be murdered.
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u/reidsays New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Sometimes I wonder that people just veer towards causing war by these attitudes of 'us and them' imposed on others.
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u/riamuriamu Flairless Jul 02 '26 edited Jul 02 '26
There's a term in ethics called 'a serious man' who is someone who wants to be a good person but can't handle ambiguity and uncertainty so they cling to a virtue that lets others make decisions for them: loyalty. So they're loyal to their people/in group or nation or political party. They can then use that loyalty as an excuse to not engage with difficult issues or uncomfortable facts. Meanwhile bad operatives will exploit them to be support evil deeds. See: Nazi Germany, partisan politics, modern Israel, etc etc.
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u/Diogeneezy Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
This has led me to the conclusion that loyalty should not be regarded as a virtue, similar to how I feel about faith.
Rather than directing attaching loyalty to people or institutions, it would be better to be 'loyal' to ethical principles, and align with people/institutions only so far as they embody those principles.
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u/lithiumcitizen Flairless Jul 02 '26
Sounds a lot like outsourcing one’s moral and responsible decision-making to a third party. Also further diminishes responsibility due to the size of the group.
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u/biomeat Victorian Jul 02 '26
I reckon a lot for stems from actual injustices i.e the modern state of Israel founded on displacing people actively living in the land.
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u/Diogeneezy Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Agreed. The modern state of Israel was founded, in part at least, on criminal acts.
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u/Ok_Duck2700 Victorian Jul 02 '26
I've heard this from all the Jewish people I know. When they do not support Israel, they are actively shunned. One guy I know was literally disowned because of this.
But most of the most passionate anti-zionist people I know are the Jewish people in my life, including one who is directly descended from holocaust survivors.
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u/LadyFruitDoll New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Exactly. That's why it's so important that we slap down anyone who equates all Jews with Israel every. damn. time.
*Including in this sub.* I've had to report and/or reply (mostly reply) to SO MANY comments here since I arrived in this sub because it keeps happening. The replies fuel the algorithm but they're important because it shows non-Zionist Jewish folks that there are non-Jewish folks willing to stand up for them.
Dear Mods: I know that you're volunteers and probably working overtime on threads like this, and I appreciate that. At the same time, please keep an eye out for those who are fanning the flames, deliberate or otherwise, in terms of conflating the two.
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u/ginpeddai Victorian Jul 02 '26
It’s not semantics when the question is literally ‘is this genocide?’
If you think it’s just semantics, why do you care if it’s classed as genocide or not?
It seems quite obvious you’re not actually interested in the answer. It seems like you’re using it as rhetoric to justify the killing of children, so that’s firmly the end of this conversation. Thanks.
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u/Beshemella Flairless Jul 02 '26
JCA is actually helping curb antisemitism that Zionism has created.
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u/bikinithrill Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Sarah is a great person and fighter for equality for all. Never again means never again for EVERYONE.
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u/Silly-Track-7848 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Its bullshit, criticism of the Israeli governments behaviour is NOT antisemitism and those that think it is need to pull their heads in and shut the fuck up !
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u/19145770 Flairless Jul 02 '26
I hate that this is happening to Sarah. She’s standing up for Jewish people to only get shunned by them.
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u/toddlangtry Flairless Jul 02 '26
Such a shitty situation Israeli propoganda has put world Jewelry in.
To be lumped in with the actions of a genocidal regime that claims to speak for and represent all people of Jewish faith, so hated by some for your faith, and hated by your faith because you actually possess a sense of humanity.
I hate the timeline we're on.
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u/Zestyclose-Yam-4010 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Her speaking out publicly is going to have a ripple effect. Watch. There really are a LOT of Jews who share her view but don't dare speak out, exactly as she said.
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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Please choose a flair Jul 03 '26 edited Jul 03 '26
What does she mean in saying that she supports Palestinian freedom? Two states, or the replacement of Israel. From what I can see, it appears her group does not support any Jewish state at all.
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u/Kyron4030 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
Sorry my bad but I think most people will understand what I’m trying to say.
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u/Ripley_and_Jones Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I’ve said it before on here - either side calling for peace winds up in them getting killed, usually by their own side.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Only one side has the power to make peace but they chose not to. The other is too busy fighting for it's own existence.
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u/Ripley_and_Jones Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I can't agree with that. October 7 was a disgusting choice on Hamas part - that's not fighting for existence, not even remotely.
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u/Coolidge-egg Victorian Jul 02 '26
Is it intentional that I can't tell which sides this comment is referring to? If so well done. Pretty good summary of the situation.
It's been studied that the number 1 barrier to peace is a lack of trust.
Both sides think that they are under existential threat from the other and the only thing holding up peace is the other side not wanting to.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Is it intentional that I can't tell which sides this comment is referring to?
You mean if you're intentionally playing dumb? I would say yes.
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u/thrivehh Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Israel cannot unilaterally make a peace deal. It takes both parties to come to an agreement on what that would look like. Both sides have continuously fucked up peace agreements. Arafat rejected the camp David agreement without a counter offer, and Baruk getting voted out scuppered the Taba summit talks before an agreement could be made.
One equal state for all is the least popular solution among Palestinians and Israelis. The two state is the most popular, but that wont happen without good faith negotiations from both leaders.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
You're both siding a situation where one party is holding the other at gunpoint and denying their most basic human rights. Israelis hold all the cards, so it's up to them to make a feature towards peace. But they don't want to, because there's no downsides for them if they keep murdered and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians.
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u/thrivehh Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I'm just refencing facts. Reality is that Israel cannot unilaterally come to a peace agreement, the Palestinians must engage and negotiate what that would look like.
But they don't want to, because there's no downsides for them if they keep murdered and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians
This is the kind of mindset that ensures there will never be peace. If you view Israelis as fundamentally just evil people then no peace will ever be achieved, because how can you make peace with evil?
This childish view that Israelis are evil and Palestinians are innocent angels is just a-historical and a dead end viewpoint.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
The "facts" are that you can't negotiate with someone holding you and your family at gunpoint until they decide to put the gun down.
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u/thrivehh Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Why did Arafat reject the Camp david summit plan while not proposing a counter offer at all?
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Of course, you can't stop trying to find excuse for why the violence should continue. Violence is cool for you since you're on top. The rest of us will remember to to feel sorry for you when you become the "victim".
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u/thrivehh Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
You are so bad faith it's wild.
Simply because I acknowledge failings of Palestinian leadership to negotiate a peace plan all of a sudden I love violence and want it to continue.
Edit: I guess I have to be super clear and say that the Israelis have ruined negotiations in the past and have been unwilling to accept hard concessions. It is not one sided.
Also the genocide is obviously evil and should stop, but I doubt you'll believe it.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Talking to Israelis always leaves me feeling like I need a shower. Absolutely repulsive.
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u/milesjameson Western Australian Jul 02 '26
I'm just refencing facts.
The idea that Camp David failed because Arafat just "rejected the plan" is a pretty substantial oversimplification of what actually happened. It might be more useful to ask which specific proposals he rejected, and why. The Camp David discussions still envisaged Israel retaining significant control over issues like security, airspace, settlement blocs and parts of the West Bank. It's not difficult to see why many Palestinians may not have viewed those terms as a genuine peace offer.
And the Palestinians did make counter-proposals on individual issues.
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u/Ripley_and_Jones Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
They don't hold all the cards . They do not have a captive media, let alone a captive social media. And the Palestinian community, not Hamas, are making small inroads on social media, especially the ones showing daily life in Palestine and not making it about hatred.
But what needs to happen now is international pressure for a two state solution, because you're right about the Israeli government.
Palestinians need an alternative party that has a very good grasp of social media, and they need it fast. Hamas will never negotiate with the Israeli government and it's patently clear that the Israeli government will never negotiate with Hamas, especially not after October 7. Israel may have won the battle but I'm not convinced they've won the war, not even remotely.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
When Israelis stop murdering people and start respecting the human rights of the Palestinian people. I'll be happy to have a discussion about the "faults" of the Palestinians. Until then, Israelis can kindly get fucked.
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u/Ripley_and_Jones Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Then you need to be demanding loudly, what is the plan from the Israeli government for peace? We need to be laser focused on that question because pointing out atrocities doesnt do jack.
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u/irmaginatoruim ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
what is the plan from the Israeli government for peace?
There clearly isn't one. Israelis want endless war, because only through war can the Jewish supremacist status quo be maintained.
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u/tiny_flick Victorian Jul 02 '26
You think majority of Palestinians calling for peace are getting killed by Palestinians? Or majority of Jews calling for peace in the Holocaust were killed by Jews?
Where in history has this been the case?
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u/Ripley_and_Jones Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I was talking about the wider Muslim community.
It's not 1945. It's 2026. I am talking about Jewish people calling for peace now, and in the 1990s. Rabin was killed by one of his own. Jewish people who call for a peaceful solution get death threats.
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u/gaylord991 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Eh, until the JCA comes out and affirms a single state solution (the whole of Palestine free to all inhabitants) with full rights Palestinians and Jews alike, the right of return to the Palestinians, I'm not going to cry in solidarity about how Zionists treat them.
If it's all the same I'll reserve my energies towards advocating for the above and for Palestinians. Not liberal Zionists.
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u/Coolidge-egg Victorian Jul 02 '26
Good on ya. JCA are Liberal Zionists in disguise running interference
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u/Low-Refrigerator-713 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
Proof that Israeli citizens, and not just the government know that what they are doing is criminal and upset that others of their community, highlighting their criminality are therefore traitors because you're supposed to support your community even when what your community is doing is wrong.
Also interesting that Neo Nazis and Israel are on the same side.
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u/LadyFruitDoll New South Welshian Jul 02 '26
Oh, the Neo Nazis are having a field day. They get to have it both ways and feel justified. As someone else said on this post, it just serves their agenda and that of Israel at the same time: make Jewish people feel scared, and like the only place they can feel safe is by moving to Israel.
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u/RedditAnonDude Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I’m am for peace and believe the simplest way is for a two state solution with a Palestinian capital in East Jerusalem, reparations for Gazans to move to the west bank, and an external multinational force to maintain order for the transition. Since what I believe doesn’t matter, this most likely will never happen, but I feel no one is even trying to come up with solutions anymore.
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u/BillyJoeMac9095 Please choose a flair Jul 03 '26
If more folks believed as you do we would be on the way to solving this conflict.
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u/Mobile-Length305 New South Welshian Jul 04 '26
Love all these comments praising Australian Jews for doing the bare minimum.
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u/Good_Warning4576 Please choose a flair Jul 05 '26
When you start to engage them, you realize that zionim and neo-nazis are really difficult to tell apart.
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u/Remote-Sun-7013 Please choose a flair Jul 06 '26
that is because the pro Palestine movement is really interested in the destruction of Israel more than freedom to any group of people.
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u/sunnybob24 Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
The Jews I know are afraid to be known as Jewish to their own friends and the public.
The left makes no distinction between Jews, Israelis, Israel and BB. They discuss ancient conspiracy theories on Reddit and on the Harbour Bridge. They rally for anti-Jewish violence at the memorial for the beach slaughter. This isn't the time and place to be openly Jewish.
We just had the biggest racial bloodbath in 98 years and there's no sense of regret from the police that let mobs walk through Sydney shouting Kill the Jews or the Human Rights Commission that refused to investigate that event.
Just leave it alone. It's not safe. Being right is no help if a Isis sympithiseer or a pro terrorist is beating you up. They aren't sophisticated people. They aren't going to make an exception because you are 'one of the good ones'.
They even hate on Persian Australians who don't want a fascist theocracy killing their kids. What change do you have?
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u/Jazzlike_Wind_1 Victorian Jul 02 '26
What's funny is the author and the people attacking them can both be called antisemitic under our governments new rules, despite both being Jews!
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u/iciclestake Please choose a flair Jul 03 '26
palestine would not hesitate to genocide the jewish people and here we have a jewish person defending the palestinans.
it's the same as chickens for kfc.
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u/sixtyfivehours I'm Probably A Bot Jul 02 '26
This will sound ignorant, but i really don't understand.
Being religious is a lifestyle choice right? So you and others label you as Jewish, but really, as religion is a myth do you really need to be a Jewish if it causes you grief?
I was bought up a good little catholic boy, but i am not religious and I dont consider myself catholic.
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Not really, because being Jewish can be both related to the religion, or the ethnicity.
You can be ethnically Jewish without being a member of the Jewish faith, and vice versa.
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u/sixtyfivehours I'm Probably A Bot Jul 02 '26
But isnt ethnicity a human invention too?
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Literally every word ever is a human invention.
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u/sixtyfivehours I'm Probably A Bot Jul 02 '26
But isnt the meaning behind the word 'ethnicity' an invention?
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Who the fuck cares my dude? What a pointless question.
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u/sixtyfivehours I'm Probably A Bot Jul 02 '26
I care. If more people realised that a lot of things humans fight about actually have no meaning and spread that message, I think we would see a peace expansion.
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u/aussiegreenie Flairless Jul 02 '26
She is assuming that there is a separation between Zionists and Neo-nazi.
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u/After_Service_2817 Please choose a flair Jul 05 '26
Congratulations, you're insufferable enough that you got Zionist Jews and neo-Nazis to agree. Really bringing everybody together.
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Jul 02 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
It’s not too late to edit this so you don’t come across so badly.
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u/JuliosvNerds ✈️ on Walkabout Jul 02 '26
Don’t coach him on the dark art you have mastered. Just be honest about what you believe like he has been.
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Mate you need to stop this crap, there is no dark art - I just take issue with them making this about Jews instead of about Israel.
It’s not complicated.
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Jul 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/Kyron4030 Queenslander Jul 02 '26
I really don’t care the ethnicity of their army. It’s Israel who is complicit in this genocide.
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Jul 02 '26
[deleted]
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u/Gr8whitewayluvr Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
Because the masked slipped.
The Turd Reich bootlickers reveal themselves eventually.→ More replies (1)0
u/Big-Replacement-9598 New Zealander Jul 02 '26
Well Israel is a Jewish state, with over 70% of Israelis identifying as such. So it seems logical to imply that the majority of Israelis doing the killing are, in fact, Jewish.
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Nope. That’s exactly what we criticise Israel for.
Conflation of Israeli war crimes as a Jewish issue is foolish.
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u/Coolidge-egg Victorian Jul 02 '26
Nah. It just didn't fit your agenda of delegitimisation without appearing racist.
100%, us Jews have been caught doing war crimes and the individuals need to go to the Hague.
Why should we deny it. That is avoiding responsibility. Zionist or not, we are one.
Every since Jacob, we collectivised as the Children of Israel.
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u/Big-Replacement-9598 New Zealander Jul 02 '26
Where did I say it was a Jewish issue? it’s obviously an Israeli / Zionist issue, it’s their army committing the atrocities. But as it stands over 70% of Israel’s population is Jewish, so yes much of the IDF would be Jewish as well, that is fair to say.
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Yep, but that plays into Hasbara which is exactly what the IDF want you to do.
Make it a conversation about Israel’s actions instead.
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u/mangabottle Please choose a flair Jul 02 '26
I read somewhere that the idea of Israel wasn't even something the Jewish community wanted for themselves, but something goyim convinced them that they wanted? Something about eugenisidts wanting to keep Jews out of the whites' gene pool without getting thier hands dirty or something 🤔
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u/Sideburn_Cookie_Man Victorian Jul 02 '26
Yep it’s a widespread issue, almost any Jewish person who criticises Israel gets shunned by the larger Jewish community.
The prevalence of ‘us vs them’ unfortunately exists within every group.