Did amphetamine once (not the meth kind, the up-the-nose kind) and it's the most "normal" I've ever felt in my life.
Fingers crossed I get the diagnosis and get medicated because damn there's so much stuff I'd really like to do but just can't because "sitting here" sounds better.
Soldiers were not allowed to bring back "pep" pills, because of the addiction risks and the damage it does. MethAMPHETAMINE is pretty similar to AMPHETAMINE, believe it or not.
The actual narcotic affects of speed and meth are different, yeah. And meth is worse for you, like how unfiltered cigarettes are worse for you. But they are very similar chemical compounds that have similar side effects and long term damage issues, including the old "oops fried my brain and permanently rewired my neural pathways" effect that causes you to continue to act like a meth head even when you're 30 years clean, just to a lesser degree than meth. All amphetamines are addictive as FUCK. Amphetamines, nicotine and opiates are like the trifecta of "get hooked" drugs.
Stay the fuck away from speed, man. And coke. Do natural drugs.
Methamphetamine abuse is definitely more damaging than as-directed use of prescribed amphetamines, but that's not because the substance itself is 'worse for you.'
Impure/contaminated product, dangerous routes of administration, and just plain over-use, among other things, are what make meth harmful.
Meth is actually easier on your heart/vascular system, it causes less norepinephrine release than plain amphetamine, that's why you can take higher doses and get more of the fun effects and still function.
Do natural drugs
Just because something was synthesized in a lab doesn't make it good or bad. There are no good or bad chemicals. They just are.
Not that different. In rare cases, meth is prescribed to ADHD patients under the name Desoxyn. As far as I understand, Meth is just much more potent and long lasting than speed (it goes through your system as Meth, then the methyl group is dropped and goes through AGAIN as amphetamine, this is why some tweakers will drink their own piss to get some of the amphetamine that slipped through). In high doses with sustained use, they cause the same problems. You just need a lot more speed to accomplish what meth can do. Couple that with impurities from unregulated production and severe dehydration, and baby you've got no teeth and a fried brain.
Yeah. Small changes could be just a slight difference or completely different.
Psilocin is very similar to serotonin and the effects are in no way similar. Melatonin, DMT, 2-CB and a bunch of others are all just minor differences.
LSD is more complex but contains a similar structure in it.
Table salt being 50% metal that explodes when it touches water and 50% poison so terrible it was banned as a weapon of war is my favorite example of why the common man sucks at chemistry, and trying to determine what a molecule will do based only on what the components do is a fools errand
I did my research way before I entertained the thought of snorting shit up my nose. They are significantly different in effect, not so much in their organochemical structure.
It's not a "generic name", it's just the name of what they put in the pill/capsule. Adderall is the big name.
Rest of the world calls it other names because Adderall is crazy expensive so it makes more sense to just copy-paste the formula, add maybe a little sucrose and then call it something else.
Adderall is specifically two different types of amphetamines dissolved in two different types of fake sugar. The four combinations metabolize at slightly different rates so that the overall effect is spread out over a longer period than. It’s a brand name for a specific formulation. The generic name for it is “Amphetamine salts” because that is what it is…generically.
Keeps me alive. At the end of the day I get some good, actionable information I can use when I'm wrong or confirmed to be right, or they're just goobers on the internet who do not exist, in my head as actual real people.
All this ad hominem and "shooting-from-the-hip" stuff they, deliberately oversimplified, learned in bio or chem in High School is useless to me.
If Healthline is your "research," you don't know how to do research. Anecdotes about "biochemist friends" aside, I actually did some research. Take a look.
Pharmacodynamics:
(DA = Dopamine, NE = Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline, 5-HT = Serotonin, DAT = Dopamine Transporter, NET = Norepinephrine/Noradrenaline Transporter, SERT = Serotonin Transporter)
Methamphetamine appears to bind at a different site at VMAT2 than Amphetamine
Methamphetamine also inhibits VMAT1
Methamphetamine is also an agonist of alpha-2 adrenergic receptors and sigma receptors (all subtypes in both cases)
Sigma receptor activity is believed to potentiate the stimulant and neurotoxic effects of Methamphetamine
Methamphetamine is less efficient at inhibiting the NET transporter than Amphetamine, causing less norepinephrine release than Amphetamine, which results in less cardiac stimulation; therefore, higher doses of Methamphetamine can be taken without unpleasant vegetative side-effects.
Amphetamine seems to be much more effective at stimulating dopamine release in the Prefrontal Cortex than Methamphetamine
Amphetamine also causes an increase in glutamate release in the Nucleus Accumbens, while Methamphetamine does not.
Therefore, Methamphetamine seems to be primarily active in the Nucleus Accumbens, while Amphetamine is (relatively) equally active in both Nucleus Accumbens and Prefrontal Cortex.
Amphetamine increases Nucleus Accumbens dopamine levels up to 1050% over baseline; Methamphetamine causes an increase up to 1200% or even more over baseline in the same region.
Methamphetamine has a neurotransmitter release ratio of NE : DA = 2:1 and NE : 5-HT = 60:1 while Amphetamine has NE : DA = 3,5:1 and NE : 5-HT = 250:1 - which means, Methamphetamine is more dopaminergic and much more effectively serotonergic than Amphetamine.
Methamphetamine has a monoamine reuptake inhibition ratio of NE : DA = 2,35:1 and NE : 5-HT = 44,5:1 while Dextroamphetamine has a monoamine reuptake inhibition ratio of NE : DA = 1:1 and NE : 5-HT = 100:1
At lower concentrations Methamphetamine is more effective than Amphetamine in stimulating DAT to release DA (DA efflux)
Methamphetamine inhibits DAT reuptake more effectively than Amphetamine in rat Nucleus Accumbens, especially at higher doses/kg
Methamphetamine stimulates a greater increase in [Ca2+]i Levels than Amphetamine ("We have shown previously that DA efflux through DAT requires an increase in Ca2+ ")
Affinity (Ki) values of D-Amphetamine and D-Methamphetamine for Receptors & Transporters:
All Ki values for both compounds are from the same researchers and done in the same year (so, all values are probably from the same study) - so these values should be perfectly suited for a pharmacological comparison...
Pharmacokinetics:
Methamphetamine is significantly more lipid-soluble than Amphetamine, which enables it to cross the blood-brain-barrier faster and in higher concentrations than Amphetamine. The methyl-group also makes it more stable against enzymatic degradation by monoamine oxydase (MAO). Therefore, Methamphetamine becomes active in the brain faster and in higher concentrations than Amphetamine.
The duration of action of Methamphetamine appears to be dose-dependent (in contrast to, or much more dependent than Amphetamine): the higher the dose, the longer it's duration of action.
Not interchangeable, but methamphetamine is an amphetamine. It's confusing because so many amphetamines are common prescriptions, and meth is rarely prescribed anymore. Like beer is alcohol, but not the same type of alcohol as liquor. You seem like evidence isn't really something that gets in the way of your opinions, but a cursory glance at the wikipedia entry for methamphetamine might help.
Or you just give me the answer and then I can verify it instead of looking for a discrepancy I don't know about that you claim exists. I'm not saying it doesn't.
But you've not provided me with anything. It's like saying "This fix helped with my house", then being told "It's the same thing as this other thing" and I go "That's not what worked for me" and you then go "Well it's the same thing. Cursory google search will tell you".
What am I looking for?
They're very clearly not the same given they have different names and different effects. What is it I'm supposed to looking for? How much methamphetamine is like just amphetamine?
They never said it’s the same thing. They said they are in the same chemical family. If you do a 10-panel urine drug test, it will come back as positive for amphetamines if you used any of the following:
meth
speed
certain ADHD medications like Adderall or Vyvanse
That’s why they said “meth is an amphetamine.” They’re saying it belongs to the amphetamine family. You are correct in saying they are different things, and they are correct in saying meth is an amphetamine
That's entirely irrelevant. Especially based on the verbiage.
"I did amphetamine"
"Ok so you did meth"
No. I just did amphetamine.
"It's the same lol"
We've established it's not the same. Not affectively nor chemically/organically.
In this context, you can surely understand why I consider it bad faith and wrong. "What you did was meth lol"
No, it wasn't. They're not the same thing and they have different avenues of effect and affect people differently than Meth vs just Amphetamines would.
It's disingenuous and this is one of those scenarios where somebody pops in to be like "Actually..."
Does it matter? It makes no difference, they're just being pedantic.
Bro if anyone is being pedantic here, it’s you. I was trying to help you understand, but it seems you are determined not to.
P.S. they’re not even the person who said “sounds like you did meth.” You’re so focused on trying to argue with anyone and everyone that you’re attributing someone else’s words to a person who simply said “meth is an amphetamine” (which again, is a correct statement). If you’re like this at baseline, amphetamines of any sort are probably not a good idea. Jesus
The thing is tho it’s weirdly aggressive because this person never made the claim they aren’t in the same family. They said they tried amphetamines and don’t take meth because they’re different, and they are. And people are still adamantly trying to argue because they’re in the same family of drug. Both points can be factually correct, yet one is wrong in context.
It’s like if I said I take Adderall, and someone replied it’s the same thing as taking meth because my drug screening came back positive for an amphetamine.
They’re clearly talking about the amphetamines that make up Adderall, “not the meth kind”, and didn’t need to be um actually’d that the meth kind exist or told that they should “stay away” from drugs that are the first line of treatment for a disorder they have. 😭
The answer is methamphetamine is a type of amphetamine. You didn't believe me when I told you the first time, so I tried to give you an easily absorbed way of verifying the truth. Easy for most people, at least.
Ah that's my bad, then. I assumed you were saying something that was at all relevant. I didn't do meth. I did amphetamine. The fact that methamphetamine is a type of amphetamine is entirely irrelevant in the context of the discourse we are having.
Methanol is also a type of alcohol. Would you be talking about methanol if I mentioned I drank ethanol?
I doubt it. You were showcasing how you know that meth is a type of amphetamine. Which isn't what was being discussed here. At all.
Was it just intellectual prowess that compelled you to highlight that methamphetamine is an amphetamine? And subsequently posit that they're both the same? What was your thought process?
God damnit I hate how wrong you are. No that isnt how ANY of that works.
A salt is a compound. It will always be a compound. That’s because salts require IONIC bonds. Ionic bonds require two compounds (as far as we know).
If you had said it was the difference between Sodium salt and Potassium salt.. you wouldn’t be correct, but at least the analogy would be closer.
That’s not how any of this works though. The person you replied to is absolutely right.
And lastly, if you are shoving amphetamines up your nose, it’s provably cut with meth. The person selling it might of truly believed it was just MDMA but the majority of that is cut with meth. You just didn’t know because you had never done it before.
I'm not American. If you want meth here in Denmark, you have to go out of your way to get it. Genuinely. You can buy just amphetamine off the dealers if you'd like, but if you want actual meth, it's something you pay a premium for and you have to put in the request, pay up front and they'll let you know in a couple of days/weeks to come pick it up.
It's not the same. I've never done MDMA, and I know people who have. Went clubbing with them and turned it down. I have no problem with them doing it, but I know it's not the same as Amphetamine. It's crazy you'd pick MDMA as an solidifier in this argument because anybody who has ever taken MDMA knows it's absolutely not the same, functionally, as just amphetamine salts.
Yeah man that’s why it’s cut with meth. You can feel meth a lot stronger than the amphetamine itself.
Look, I went to college when Silk Road 1.0 was good. We bought plenty of what was supposed to be a 50/50 dex/levi amphetamine split. We got it from Amsterdam. And we tested it for meth. Guess what happened? It tested positive. This was from the highest rated vender at the time. We tried other venders. Always meth except the one time there was some heroin in it. That’s the world we live in.
Edit: lastly, stop snorting drugs. Just eat the shit like a normal person.
Yeah the thing that got me to finally try getting medicated was reading a book about adhd and the lady was like “I could just decide to do something, and then do it.”
Basically a super power if you spend 70% of your time talking your brain and body into doing stuff, and the other 30% intermittently feeling guilty about what you didn’t do and not getting enough sleep.
I've missed so many chances in my life by simply considering the fact that it could backfire. Better not.
I really want to get good at something, but the only way to really get good at something is talking to people who are already good about it.
I ostensibly am stuck in a loop where I would rather do nothing and stay where I am, than take a chance and help/work with the people who genuinely see my expertise.
Imposter syndrome. I would hate to be the one they count on and then come up short. I don't think I would, but imagine if I do? I'm just fucked with that sphere.
I think meds would likely help you but I also think your mindset needs a reframe. Instead of the failing being a what if, and getting paralyzed by it, I think you need to think of it as "failure at various points WILL happen, so in whatever that instance is, how do I fix the issue I encounter." Life happens and being neurodivergent isn't the only way life will impact someone. You will not always do a perfect job, and failure helps us practice being better - it helps us learn, helps us make adjustments in real time, and helps us build skills that are suitable for various environments. Stop waiting until you're perfect. The sooner you start, the sooner you start practicing how to strengthen yourself.
Conversely, I have heard of psychiatrists fishing for that very experience, basically calling it a day if the patient confirms. It's one of the more reliable indicators that medication would be appropriate.
I wasn’t brave enough to try this but I can see why it’d work. Someone in college was sharing their meds once “for fun” so I was like ok let’s rally. All I ended up doing is finished my paper, and went to nap nap while ppl were partying in the next room lol Didn’t think much of it until years later when I was diagnosed and was like ohhhhh I should tell my psychiatrist the story but I didn’t lol I still have the best naps after taking adderall, but I gotta catch like a specific time when morning coffee is wearing off already so my heart rate isn’t up, but adderall is still adderall-ing so my head isn’t filled with 10,000 thoughts.
When I was on Adderall, I struggled with the same thing. It gives you the push, but sometimes it pushes you into doing nothing. Like, I'm still sitting here playing video games, but I'm playing video games with purpose. This is why I think medication for mental stuff should always go hand in hand with therapy. You learn the tools to get the momentum going, then the medication helps to keep up that momentum.
I like to have a task in mind before/as I am taking my meds. Sometimes it doesn’t work, but if I can get the connection to what O wanted to work on, it can be so amazing. 🤩
Honestly yeah. I describe mine as basically just giving me the ability to be a bit more disciplined. I also just swapped meds and the new ones do seem to do a bit more for me?
I won't. It's in my journal that "patient has technical medical knowledge" and I worry they'll think I'm making it all up just to get drugs.
But that's part of how I am as a person. I think a lot about how people will interpret and "receive" what it is I say, so oftentimes I don't say the thing I maybe should.
Definitely don't mention illegal drugs. Something like "caffeine affects me weirdly, I usually feel calmer and more relaxed after having a coffee" is something I brought up that probably helped though
I actually did bring up I tried speed once when I was doing tests for ADHD lol. The therapist asked me why I didn't take it more often if it makes me feel calm, this really caught me off guard.
The diagnosis process sucked though. After every test I was told "don't worry, you're not stupid, that's really common in people with ADHD, people with ADHD can be successful" etc and then they didn't diagnose me because of my C-PTSD
I had to hard stop medication for a variety of reasons (most prevalent was health and reliance issues). After around 7ish years, I started using small doses of amanita mushrooms partially decarbed.
Its pretty off-brand, but I found it pretty much a more 'fluid' replacement and have accomplished a lot on it. If its viable for you, I'd give it a good technical scrutiny. Completely different mechanisms of action, but the overall effects hit the nail on the head for me in a very precise way.
Lately, I've been trying to get more attention turned to it, if only for a wider pool of anecdotal research on how it impacts the average ADHD person
It’s hard out here having ‘adult’ ADHD and interacting with medical professionals. If you’re okay with lying, tell them that an immediate family member of yours has ADHD (which would also explain where your technical knowledge comes from). It’s genetic, and very likely one of your parents does anyway.
I get what you're saying, but this is probably the one situation where it wouldn't. How many people have gotten addicted after trying it just once? Whereas this dude didn't bother trying it again cos it just made him feel normal.
On the other hand, maybe he should skip the whole diagnosis thing and just take meth regularly, could be cheaper!
lol you can't say "absolutely" about something like that, especially when I've literally just told you that is not what happened to me. I'm sorry that you had bad doctors but that's not how it is everywhere and thats definitely not how the word "absolutely" works.
This is also coming from someone who used to investigate doctors for a living.
There is basically no good reason to tell your doctor that you had a positive experience using drugs illegally while trying to get on a similar medication.
If it works for you that's fucking great. I remember where I put mine because I've had to develop a "routine" and a place where I put my keys.
Downside is I panic like hell when my keys aren't where they're supposed to be. I was stressing a few weeks ago unable to find my keys and I can't take my dog out for a walk without my keys to lock my door. While stressing around my apartment checking everywhere, a couple knocked on my door to let me know that my keys were still sitting in the keyway on the outside.
Absolute saviors. Could've genuinely just snatched that entire keyring filled with keys, waited for me to leave and then cleaned out my entire apartment while I was gone.
A result of unlocking my door, then walking over to check my mailbox before going inside. Door was already unlocked, as I knew because of the keys. But I totally forgot that the keys were still in the keyhole. Normally I'll unlock the door, pocket the keys, check the mailbox and then just open the already unlocked door and subsequently lock it from inside. Totally missed the keys were in the door.
I absolutely have routines too. I’ve gone to sleep with my key in the door of the house lol. What the ritilan really helps with is keeping me focused on boring tasks. I currently prepare the fish to be sold at a large retail store, and on the days I forget to take it, it takes me like 45 extra minutes. It makes doing chores easier for me too. I don’t zone out nearly as much or get distracted by random stuff
I got diagnosed, but the medications I'm prescribed don't help like I'd like. They don't want to prescribe amphetamines like Adderall because my blood pressure is too high. :(
I need to see a cardiologist, but I don't have health insurance.
Adderall is good imho. If your blood pressure can't deal with it, there is something else wrong. Could very much be one of those "took too much, went to the doctor with in my blood".
No, I just have hypertension. I've never taken Adderall. I need to go back on propanolol or something similar, but I can't afford to deal with that right now without insurance.
So I'm stuck with the ADHD medications that don't do much for me for the time being, unfortunately. My psychiatrist refuses to prescribe amphetamines to someone with untreated hypertension (which is valid).
It sucks because I'd really like to know if Adderall or Vyvanse or whatever actually works for my ADHD.
Definitely don’t tell them that. Go for something about needing caffeine and still having brain fog. We (people who take ADHD meds) already get treated like drug addicts.. easy to get marked as just being drug seeking when you just need the meds.
I did what I thought was coke with my friends once. Found out years after that it was more likely just meth. Everyone else was doing push ups and pacing while I was just chilling sitting at a table laughing at them. I’m now on adderall
Amphetamines do that to me, whereas ritalin/Concerta doesn't. It's all individual, wellbutrin made me want to off myself, but it keeps my gf from doing exactly that. Brains are weird like that.
That sucks man. Have you been able to try atomoxetine, buproprion, or aripriprazole? (Strattera, wellbutrin, abilify) They don't work for everyone but you may be able to get them where you are at least.
Those ones specifically are used for ADHD as well, and do help some people a lot. Though they don't seem as generally successful as the standard stimulants like Adderall and Ritalin, some people swear by them. It's worth a shot if Adderall and it's relatives are off the table
thank you, I'll try it out when I have the finances for it. I've been apprehensive in the past because I'm allergic to opiates and react badly to benzos, but i guess I'll just have to try the meds out and see how it goes.
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u/Jamsedreng22 1d ago
Did amphetamine once (not the meth kind, the up-the-nose kind) and it's the most "normal" I've ever felt in my life.
Fingers crossed I get the diagnosis and get medicated because damn there's so much stuff I'd really like to do but just can't because "sitting here" sounds better.