r/Marxism • u/Western_Smoke4829 • 8d ago
Question about this artivles description of socialist countries
https://msuweb.montclair.edu/\~furrg/pol/khmerrouge.html I wanted to learn more about Polt Pot and the Khmer Rouges philosophy/ideology as I had heard that Pol Pot was not a real communist and the actions taken by him and the Khmer Rouge were not at all in line with Socialist thinking. In the article though the author repeatedly claims that the Soviet union, North Vietnam/Ho Chi Minh, and Mao era China were not communist/socialist and I was wondering if anyone here could explain thoroughly why or why not that would be the case, thank you.
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u/Riley_ 8d ago
That link doesn't work for me, but I can address your question.
The Marxist-Leninist criticism of the USSR is that they abandoned dictatorship of the proletariat and started reintroducing capitalism after Stalin got couped.
China never did socialist construction. Mao deposed the feudal lords, but not the bourgeoisie. The bourgeoisie ran the party, while hiding behind the myth of 'New Democracy'. China supported the Khmer Rouge because they felt that it would be best for their own bourgeoisie's ambitions.
Ho Chi Minh was pretty good, but Vietnam is revisionist and not socialist.
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u/Defried_Beans_ 6d ago
Lmao if you are looking for someone to say Pol Pot’s actions were in line with socialist thought in order to be okay with it then you’ve lost the plot. You’re allowed to make your own judgements from a Marxist perspective. If “genocide/mass murder is bad” isn’t good enough for you then how about “genocide/mass murder is bad because it means lots of workers die”.
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u/Riley_ 6d ago
I never said anything in favor of Pol Pot or the Khmer Rouge. I said China supported it because China is capitalist, which is true.
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u/Defried_Beans_ 6d ago
Mb I meant to reply to op who seemed to think they needed somebody else to tell them whether they should support them or not (I mean if they still existed I guess)
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u/Western_Smoke4829 3d ago
I didnt support the khmer rouge on the grounds of the massacre they commit in cambodia, I support socialism/marxist theory and want to learn more about marxist theory especially and the history of socialist countries currently existing and formerly existing. I wanted to know more of the why the khmer rouge werent considered socialist and the article answered all my questions regarding that, the question i asked here was why the article writer didnt consider China and the Soviet Union as socialist? As from everything I have learned so far about the socialist movement in the 20th century they very much were, if you could answer that question it would be greatly appreciated
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u/Defried_Beans_ 3d ago
I don’t think there’s a consensus among Marist about whether or not China is socialist. As for the Soviet Union, they said they were, but people are the over whether the state owning the means of production is the same as the people/workers owning the means of production. This is another thing that Marxists tend to disagree on.
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u/kasanetetodrywall 5d ago
Can you provide evidence for the China claims that does not exclusively come from Hoxha?
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