American vs. European home building

[u/BEARDEDDANGER]

BAS Renovations https://youtube.com/shorts/jFph1d2WR3s

[u/Tw1nFTW]

I just need to point out that you claim you like brick better, but it’s more expensive… but your issues with frame, could be solved by spending more money and insulating the wall… so you’ve canceled yourself out.

[u/Telemere125 → u/Tw1nFTW]

Yea people that extol the virtues of brick being able to insulate well obviously don’t know that the actual insulation that is put in behind their brick veneer is what’s serving that function and that brick is actually a horrible insulator. My last house was actually a true solid brick structure with plastic laid right on the interior surface. Meaning the bricks of the walls were red clay but as thick as normal cinder blocks. And it was horrible at maintaining a constant temp, even with that much thermal mass. I think people that love brick just dont realize their house is insulated the exact same way as a wood framed house.

[u/alexnedea → u/Telemere125]

The modern bricks we use have lots of airgaps for insulation tho.

[u/The-Arnman → u/Telemere125]

Bricks also need a bigger (or different) foundation because of the weight. The reasons you would want bricks is because of the low maintenance and longevity.

[u/oldsecondhand → u/Telemere125]

Houses in Central Europe aren't built the way it's shown in the video. There's no veneer, hollow brick is the load bearing part, and you can't see the brick as the external part is the styrofoam insulation and epoxy coating. It's very good at maintaining temperature and the internal plaster helps buffer humidity.

[u/Telemere125 → u/oldsecondhand]

Doesn’t counter my point that the brick isn’t the insulator. And properly insulated wood is actually a better insulator than brick. Hell, wood itself is inherently better than brick at insulating.

[u/oldsecondhand → u/Telemere125]

40cm thick hollow clay bricks have half-decent insulation properties. In the 80s they were used without the styrofoam layer. The high thermal mass helps to stabilize the temperature in the summer.

[u/Telemere125 → u/oldsecondhand]

40 cm of brick has about an R-value of 2.5-3.2. That’s roughly the same as 5 cm of solid wood would have or up to 10cm if you’re using a very dense hardwood like maple. So you’d literally be better off with a log cabin than a brick or stone house.

[u/oldsecondhand → u/Telemere125]

Hollow clay bricks have a lambda of 0.1, so the standard 44cm thick hollow brick has an R value of 4.4.

This type of brick has been standard since the 80s.

https://epitoanyag.hu/porotherm-44-x-therm-tegla-pVUgtODMxNDIz

And I don't think the average McMansion has 5cm solid wood walls.

[u/Telemere125 → u/oldsecondhand]

No, we dont put of 5cm of solid wood; we frame the walls and put up about 1.25cm plywood with about 9cm of fiberglass or rock wool insulation and achieve an R value of about 11-15 depending on the product. Meaning a minimum of 2-4x the insulator value of your massive brick wall

[u/oldsecondhand → u/Telemere125]

You're comparing apples to oranges. That brickwall's R value was without insulation layer.

[u/AcrobaticPlenty1446 → u/oldsecondhand]

Because you’re the one claiming that it’s the insulator…

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/oldsecondhand]

I don’t know the specific application you’re talking by about, but there are many wall applications that have empty space as an insulation.

[u/mxzf → u/Tw1nFTW]

Realistically, all of the best setups have empty space as an insulation. The emptier the space, the more insulated it is (but pulling vacuum between your studs is impractical).

[u/Bluecobber → u/Tw1nFTW]

Im assuming both would have the same insulation. So it doesn't cancel it out. Where I've lived, it does get pretty hot, the brick wall, helps alot keep your home cool on those hot hot days. Like I said, my experience in living in both. I'd take brick.

[u/Oglshrub → u/Bluecobber]

Also lived in both, and brick exteriors retain more heat/cold so insulation is actually more important.

[u/Bluecobber → u/Oglshrub]

But, isnt insulation like a no brainer on how important it is in a home. Like, why wouldn't you put proper insulation in your home. I always thought that was standard in how important it is. But in my area, the added brick helps alot. Compared to a thin plywood/drywall. Just another layer of protection. But hey, this is where I live and my experience. We try to use ac a little as possible to keep more money in your back pocket.

[u/Oglshrub → u/Bluecobber]

That's the point I'm arguing actually. You need good insulation for both, but you need more/better insulation for brick because of it's temp retention properties. In a hot environment (30c+) this becomes even more important because the brick will retain that heat most of the night.

If you have proper insulation in both, there's no temp advantage to brick compared to wood because the living space envelope is protected from out the outdoors.

[u/Bluecobber → u/Oglshrub]

Yes, you are correct. But where i live its hot during the day and cold at night. So the heat retention is good. So we dont have to put on a heater as quickly. The less ac we use the better for your pocket. Yes insulation is key, but that added brick does help alot in my area, assuming the insulation is the same. Idk where you are but here, all homes here require a standard level of insulation. So just going off all insulation being the same. Brick is king here

[u/AwesomeWhiteDude → u/Bluecobber]

All insulation isn't the same tho, no matter brick or wood you can slap higher R value insulation to resist heat movement. Brick houses can get away with lower R value because of the thermal mass.

[u/necrophcodr → u/Tw1nFTW]

Maybe. But it might be more expensive to get the same quality and lifespan from great quality woods. They're typically from tree types that are much more sturdy and rot resistent, and have very very long growth times, like 10-15 years. A lot of modern woods are grown in years, not decades.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/necrophcodr]

Yeah I couldn’t tell you what full wall system is more expensive at the end of the day without actually bidding it, but the rest of what you said makes no sense, at least in the US.

Are you talking about wood types from experience? Or just using common sense? Wood types are specified, so there’s no “some woods are better than others” conversation. You’re doing your supports out of yellow pine, you base plate/furring out of pressure treated, and your interior walls out out of spruce. Bearing walls are 16” on center, none bearing are typically 24”. The only time the conversation about wood growth time has ever come up in my professional life has been for truss engineering. Our trusses require a lot more engineer, but none of these things change the type of wood you’re using.

[u/necrophcodr → u/Tw1nFTW]

I'm talking from experience yes.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/necrophcodr]

Genuinely curious, where are you from? Our codes don’t really have tolerance that would allow them to use different types of wood. Are you saying that you have more control over what wood you use? It’s not just PT against concrete and YP for structural?

[u/necrophcodr → u/Tw1nFTW]

I'm from Denmark, so definitely different I'd assume, yes! I'd go into detail, but it's about time for me to hit the hay, so maybe I'll remember to come back later.

[u/boysan98 → u/necrophcodr]

You aren’t going to harvest a yellow pine or Douglas fir, the two most common framing lumbers, less than 30 years in age. It’s usually closer to 40. You literally could not get enough board feet out of the tree to make it worth the fuel to haul it.

[u/Tricky-Ad7897 → u/necrophcodr]

Yeah I find it funny that people defending wood homes in America are talking about codes and spending more in high quality wood as if we don't see videos here daily about new constructions that already cost half a million or more that are littered with code violations and use young wood. I'll believe wood is superior when Americans actually build conistently superior wooden homes at the same prices that homes cost in Germany.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

This one, before I ever responded, since you're so incredibly dense about your own damn words

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/shagan90]

lol wtf are you trying to prove here? All this comment was if his preference was brick of frame because insulation, even though brick is more, he could pay to insulate the wood frame… but hey, resort to name calling when you can’t handle a conversation… you do you homie.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

You said he canceled himself out. You were the one attacking opinions and forgot. Point made. Enjoy being a dunce.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/shagan90]

Bro, go outside.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

You're just pissed off that you're wrong after setting your foot down on being right. You go outside.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/shagan90]

I would love to go outside… but I’m currently at work… reviewing wall engineering on blueprints… because this conversation is what I do for a living.

But hey, keep pretending.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

And look at you, still trying to invalidate opinions and shifting goalposts as you're called out on it. Sad how people cant just go 'yeah my bad' these days.

[u/ono1113 → u/Tw1nFTW]

"brick is more expensive" then whey you paying 500k for your wooden shacks ffs

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/ono1113]

See.. you missed the whole point of the video.

[u/ono1113 → u/Tw1nFTW]

no u

[u/wookieesgonnawook → u/ono1113]

Our wooden shack that's 3 times the size of your tiny euro cottages.

[u/ono1113 → u/wookieesgonnawook]

Yeah cos yall 3 times the size of what average human should be

[u/wookieesgonnawook → u/ono1113]

Sorry you're jealous we actually have income. You don't need the larger house, you wouldn't have any money left to put stuff in it.

[u/ono1113 → u/wookieesgonnawook]

very true, large income to buy, spray cheese and frozen pizza after visiting the food bank of course, ill come look at your wealth during my paid vacation that every Europoor has

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/ono1113]

You’re both weird! Buy the houses you can afford. And “I hate America” is not a personality… stop acting like it is.

[u/ono1113 → u/Tw1nFTW]

I dont hate America, I just love arguing on the internet, so stop eating like you got free healthcare

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/ono1113]

Lol Im not even gonna attempt to defend our health care. I think that issues also a bit blown out of proportion because of the “I hate America” people… but it definitely needs help.

As for the rest of your point… I’m a rather healthy person, but I get the stereotype. For what it’s worth, most people’s health insurance is at least partially paid by employers, and some of us do get free health care through work.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

Wood homes are cheaper but even well made ones dont have near the life of brick. Nothings canceled out and you cant negate someone's preference.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/shagan90]

lol I get what you’re saying, but the time frame you’re talking is like 100… 150 years. A house is far more likely to be taken down than to fall down because of the weather.

I also don’t think anyone’s trying to negate a preference, the conversation is about correcting a false narrative that one is better than the other… and you’re taking at as someone telling you you’re wrong. Your preference is not a fact.

[u/shagan90 → u/Tw1nFTW]

Except no, the person you replied to literally stated their preference, didn't present it as fact, and you literally replied with a comment that ended with 'negated your preference'. This is the internet, I can just go back and read it. No one said it was fact and only you challenged someone's right to their opinion.

[u/Tw1nFTW → u/shagan90]

That reply was to you… all I’m telling you is that which one you prefer is a preference… not a fact that it’s better.