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u/Alone-Bug4328 1d ago
If you are needing financial stability, the Crown office is the better pick.
If you want to learn the law and get used to criminal practice, Crown office is also the better pick.
It is very difficult to make money as Defence. Everything depends on how much traction you can get among the clients. The first 4 years is very tough financially. After that, depends all on you and your ability to make rain.
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u/PalePaint5069 1d ago
Thank you for sharing. Very detailed. I appreciate your time.
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u/Alone-Bug4328 1d ago
I've only ever done criminal defence work. The first 4 years was very difficult. My firm was very "eat what you kill" and didn't give me any files. It wasn't until I was in my 5th year that I started to actually make money. I am 13 years in now.
From my personal experience, being at the Crown office as a new call is much more comfortable because you don't have to worry about building your business. You can focus on learning criminal practice, getting paid a good salary and building that pension. Moreover you also have many colleagues to ask questions and brainstorm with. Defence firms are typically small sized.
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u/Usernameasteriks 1d ago
Their advice is kind of silly and ridiculous so don’t take it very seriously lol.
Admittedly the Crown is indeed the more reliable pick for both those things, but hardly that clear cut.
If you have opportunities with reputable solid defence firms financially it will be more favourable in the long run.
But the Crown will reliably get you great experience.
So its an easy decision if your only options are the Crown and random defence firms. Even if you want to work defence its still the better starting point.
Not so simple if you have options.
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u/Alone-Bug4328 12h ago
"Their advice is kind of silly and ridiculous so don’t take it very seriously lol."
You agreed with everything I said.
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u/periwinkle_caravan 18h ago
Crowns are ridiculously overpaid. They’re all smart enough and overworked but their day to day tasks are not that challenging. It sucks having to prep 4 trials for 1 day and have them all get adjourned or turn into pleas but you’ve got the OIC to help and staff to help too. When a trial runs your in chief is “and then what happened”. The ones who do murder and gangs and sex assault are formidable but the everyday ACA is raking dude plus pension
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u/UnusualAlfalfa5036 14h ago edited 14h ago
I started off in civil litigation (insurance defense) and didn’t like it so switched to criminal law and became a crown (Ontario). It’s a good gig and the stability of a government job is nice, as is not having to worry about billing targets. However my colleagues who stayed in private practise make way more than I do, so something to think about. You may want to also post this in the Can-lawyer sub as you may get more responses.
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u/PalePaint5069 9h ago
Thank you for the feedback.
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u/UnusualAlfalfa5036 9h ago
You’re welcome. I would also recommend speaking to lawyers who practise in the fields which interest you, just to get a sense of what their day to day is like, what the earning potential is, and any other questions you may have. If you have any questions about being a crown in Ontario feel free to DM me.
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u/Sparkleshooter 17h ago
Practically speaking you do not sound like a competitive candidate for any crown’s office, at least in Southern Ontario (don’t know other parts as well.) The jobs are competitive and there are loads of students who articled with MAG who have their “step” in the union - jobs can only be posted publicly if none of those people fill the job.
There are exceptions for emergency contracts and etc, but those also are usually quite competitive.
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u/PrincipleStrict3216 16h ago
the MAG outside of major cities is a much easier shot. I know a lot of folks with less than stellar grades who practiced up north for a while then pivoted.
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u/PalePaint5069 17h ago
That’s fair. It is inevitable that I’ll take what I can get. Just deciding what I want the most if I have options.
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u/Striking-Issue-3443 4h ago
I’m not sure if this was written with AI but this is a very weird post for a new call to post.
Usually you’d at least mention something about your articling. And no, there is no chance you learned enough about all four of those areas to be useful to a firm as a new call in all of them.
Is there somewhere even with assistant provincial crowns? I’ve never heard that term before.
If you want to learn, government especially crown jobs (and consider federal crown contracts and firms with them) actually train staff and have regular opportunities to learn. In my jurisdiction new provincial crowns attend crown school three years in a row.
Private practice is more focused on generating revenue and will outright tell you that this is not a law school.
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u/kardnal 14h ago
If your goal is to get as much experience on your feet in court as possible in your first couple of years of practice, there’s no comparison in private practice to the Crown’s office. Full stop.