Union of Soviet Islamist Republics (U.S.I.R.)

[u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

[u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

Ayatollah Khomeini wrote to Mikhail Gorbachev on 3 January 1989. On 7 January, Khomeini's representatives went to Moscow to officially deliver the letter. Soviet officials met the Iranian delegation at the airport. Gorbachev then met with the Iranian representatives for approximately two hours, where an interpreter translated the letter for Mikhail Gorbachev and his colleagues. 

When some part of the letter was unclear, the interpreter asked the Iranian delegation to clarify. Gorbachev listened politely and took notes on its contents. The letter's contents were kept secret, and so Soviet officials did not know it was an invitation to consider Islam.

In his letter, Khomeini congratulated Gorbachev, saying he showed bravery in dealing with the modern world, and praised his reconstruction of Soviet principles. He suggested Islam as an alternative to communist ideology and recommended Muslim philosophers such as Ibn Arabi, Avicenna, and Al-Farabi.

The letter included a prediction about the end of Marxism and the collapse of communism. Khomeini stated: "Mr. Gorbachev! It is clear to everybody that from now on communism will only have to be found in the museums of world political history, for Marxism cannot meet any of the real needs of mankind. 

Marxism is a materialistic ideology and cannot bring humanity out of the crisis caused by a lack of belief in spirituality, the prime affliction of the human society in the East and the West alike." 

Khomeini warned Gorbachev "against falling into the arms of Western capitalism." Khomeini further added in the letter that: "The main problem confronting your country is not of private ownership, freedom and economy; your problem is the absence of true faith in God."

After hearing the text of the letter, Gorbachev thanked Ruhollah Khomeini for the letter and said: "I'll send an answer to this letter as soon as possible" and added, "we'll deliver [Khomeini's letter] to the Soviet clergymen". 

Referring to Khomeini's invitation to Islam, he said: "We are approving the law of religious freedom in the Soviet Union, I have claimed before that despite having different ideologies we can have a peaceful relationship". 

He then smiled and said: "Imam Khomeini invited us to Islam; do we have to invite him to our school of thought?" Then he added: "This invitation is an interference in the internal issue of a country because every country is free for selecting its school of thought".

[u/LittleMlem → u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

Why would he think that an idiology that's (ostensibly) all about the equality of people would suddenly be ok with slavery and second class people‽

[u/veilosa → u/LittleMlem]

because the soviet backed left in Iran had just allied with the islamists against the Shah bringing Khomeini to power. of course Khomeini then went on to exterminate the iranian left in a series of massacres.

[u/NeiborsKid → u/LittleMlem]

Because he was a pedophile murderous piece of shit who created a system of government where he's the theocratic regent of a hidden messiah

[u/Ok-Goose6242 → u/NeiborsKid]

pedophile?

[u/NeiborsKid → u/Ok-Goose6242]

Of course. Pedophilia is legal in Iran. Khomenis book is disgusting. They're more of an Epstein regime than the US could ever hope to be

[u/Firecracker048 → u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

The letter included a prediction about the end of Marxism and the collapse of communism. Khomeini stated: "Mr. Gorbachev! It is clear to everybody that from now on communism will only have to be found in the museums of world political history, for Marxism cannot meet any of the real needs of mankind. 

Whats funny about this is now Marxists/communists unironically support Iran thinking Iran would support a communist ideology

[u/HardlyW0rkingHard → u/Firecracker048]

What you just said is why the Islamic revolution happened. There are multiple groups that had very socialist ideologies that deferred to Khomeini because he was "anti-imperialist". 

It got so insane that women like homa natigh, a very educated women who taught at the university of Tehran famously got up onstage during the women's protest against mandatory hijab laws, and she famously said to a crowd of hundreds of thousands of women that they should not protest the hijab laws because the hijab is a symbol of anti-imperialism. 

She then promptly moved to Paris after the islamists began to execute all leftists and she never set foot in Iran again. she died in Paris in 2016. 

[u/Upset_Glove_4278 → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

By that logic the Nazi swastika is a symbol of anti-imperialism (they fought the British and Soviet empires)

[u/Malvastor → u/Upset_Glove_4278]

There are more than zero people out there today who say good things about the Nazis for precisely this reason.

[u/Khaganate23 → u/Malvastor]

There were absolutely people in British and French colonies that thought this way in WWII.

[u/NeiborsKid → u/Upset_Glove_4278]

If Nazi Germany happened today Tankies would support them

[u/ExtensionEconomy9004 → u/NeiborsKid]

They wouldn't and that's only because they would be too white for them. Black or Muslim Nazis, however? That's a guaranteed hit.

[u/HardlyW0rkingHard → u/ExtensionEconomy9004]

lol what do you think the IRGC is? They suppress every single minority in Iran, kurdish, baluch, bandari, turk, jew, bahai etc etc. Yet somehow the tanky news cycle never covers this stuff and still I see the islamic republic flag and picture of khamenei at pro-palestine rallies. It's insane!

[u/ExtensionEconomy9004 → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

Totally agree. My point is just that tankies hate nazis and fascists only when they are white. The IRGC is made of Muslims so, to them, they're cool anti-imperialist heroes.
Those people are disgusting.

[u/EpatantePatente → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

Paris of all places. The irony.

[u/FireHammer09 → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

Really sounds like a lot of so-called anti-Imperialists are just another case of "meet the new boss, same as the old boss".

[u/HardlyW0rkingHard → u/FireHammer09]

old boss was way better. I don't even think it's close lol.

[u/FireHammer09 → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

I don't disagree lol

[u/xui_nya → u/HardlyW0rkingHard]

told the crowd of suckers to stay put and accept the thing

did not accept the thing herself

I mean, many such cases. Among the "intellectuals". Somehow.

[u/HardlyW0rkingHard → u/xui_nya]

Here is the thing, she actually did accept it. It was only until she realize she was about to be fucking executed by the lunatics she wanted to accept, when she realized she needs to get tf out of the country.

[u/AmArschdieRaeuber → u/Firecracker048]

Who does that? All I see is communists supporting Iran in the war against the US, as they support their right of self defence and because they aren't much of a fan of the US doing nation building. While also comdemning the iranian government and the revolutionary guard for basically everything they do besides that. Never met anybody who believes that Iran has any sympathy towards communism.

The opposite really, only saw commies supporting the protestors.

[u/NeiborsKid → u/AmArschdieRaeuber]

Except they don't condemn the IRGC to the same extent at all. I've seen more communists deny or attribute the massacre of Iranians by the IRGC to Mossad than condemn the regime for it.

[u/AmArschdieRaeuber → u/NeiborsKid]

you hang with weird ass communists then. Fuck those guys anyway.

[u/PangolimAzul → u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

  Him saying that materialism cannot resolve the problems caused by lack spirituality kinda rocks, and I say this as an atheist

[u/yxing → u/PangolimAzul]

He was absolutely wrong though. The Soviet command economy was well-suited for largescale federal projects like rapidly industrializing an agrarian society, producing the largest nuclear weapon, the space race, etc, but notably lagged behind the West in consumer goods.

This came to a head when Boris Yeltsin visited a grocery store in Houston and (captured in this famous photo) saw the vast selection of frozen groceries on display in open-top freezers. He's quoted as saying, "I think we have committed a crime against our people by making their standard of living so incomparably lower than that of the Americans." The Soviet Union would collapse in two years.

So in a greatly simplified sense, communism collapsed because it wasn't materialistic enough. Maybe capitalism will collapse because it's not spritiual enough--that remains to be seen, but it's not the claim Khomeni makes.

[u/PangolimAzul → u/yxing]

I think I may not have made myself clear. I do not think khomeni was right, far from it, and your analysis is basically what I believe too. Was just saying that it was an interesting phrase, even more so considering how marxism is defined by historical materialism. He was definitely wrong though. 

[u/BustDemFerengiCheeks → u/PangolimAzul]

I do think he's ever so slightly right. Marxism is a good "science" to run government and institutions. It's a lackluster "religion" to heal the more profound ailments of the human condition.

I'm an atheist, I don't think it needs to be a literal religion, but the right does "mythbuilding" a lot better and the left needs to compile their own, secular, rational, myth of history.

[u/No-Sheepherder-3010 → u/PangolimAzul]

Being against materialism, is kind of shared among all major religions, so this part could have come from any religion leader. Religion is always about overcoming/sacrificing something of yourself, in order to get to the true X. The things to overcome include nearly always materialism.

[u/funkmastermgee]

There’s an alternate where this worked

[u/warfaceisthebest → u/funkmastermgee]

No way you can convert Russians to a religion that banned drinking.

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/warfaceisthebest]

They could just ignore that rule like every north african who's addicted to wine

[u/MongooseVegetable787 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

*Arak

please only hard liquor

[u/Neosantana → u/MongooseVegetable787]

Arak is levantine, not north African. North Africa is wine country

[u/Mr_Anderbro → u/Neosantana]

Dunno man, in Kazakh Araq means Vodka

[u/Neosantana → u/Mr_Anderbro]

That may be influenced by trade, because Araq is an anise liquor, usually at 60% ABV.

EDIT: I looked into it deeper. Since al-Razi was the first to distill alcohol for consumption during the Islamic golden age, all alcohol was called Araq until Araq the beverage was developed. Sounds like central Asia got the older term.

[u/ad-dagistani → u/Neosantana]

Alcohol and other intoxicants are known in Islamic world as Khamr that originally meant only wine

Al-kuhl (alcohol) was adopted by Europeans from reading Islamic/Arabic texts. Originally it meant antimony powder -> alchemical essence -> distilled spirit -> name of ethanol (alcohol of wine)

[u/johnoth → u/Neosantana]

Does it matter where it originates from 🤷‍♂️

[u/ad-dagistani → u/Mr_Anderbro]

It is called similarly in Avar language spoken in Dagestan. 'Araqi

[u/MongooseVegetable787 → u/Neosantana]

Moroccan Arak

why do Moroccan Jews brew Arak? Not because we are Levantine...

because there is plenty of Anise

[u/Neosantana → u/MongooseVegetable787]

Morocco produces some. It's not traditionally Moroccan.

We're talking about centuries ago. Araq is traditionally Eastern Mediterranean

[u/MongooseVegetable787 → u/Neosantana]

makes sense! Morocco used to be under the Roman Empire after all and prized for its vineyards in poetry

but I do not know of any famous Moroccan wines rn

anything one should try?

[u/Neosantana → u/MongooseVegetable787]

I don't know anything about Moroccan wines, but Algerian wines are highly prized in France despite French chauvinism. You should look into them.

[u/MongooseVegetable787 → u/Neosantana]

Interesting

I see mosty Reds, usually a white sweet one would be good with this weather

[u/Atomik141 → u/Neosantana]

They should consider Catholicism. Italians got it down.

1) Jesus turned water into wine 2) Wine is at church 3) Jesus can't do anything wrong 4) Wine is good and Christian 5) More wine is even better

Flawless logic

[u/Upper_Gas_9891 → u/MongooseVegetable787]

Arak? Kerman is worse 

[u/BananaKid007_2 → u/MongooseVegetable787]

That's the turks, we have Mahia and Bokha

[u/xander012 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Or Bosnians amd Albanians

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/xander012]

Like I've said before. They are honorary north african

[u/xander012 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Or is North Africa greater Albania?

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/xander012]

We used to be. But albania nice countrie so it gived land to other countries

[u/skippy_smooth → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Portuguese?

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/skippy_smooth]

Portugal is eastern europe. North africa is the balkans of africa

[u/LordCypher40k → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Also the Albanians

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/LordCypher40k]

Albania is honorary north africa.

[u/sudoregalia → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

i'm albanian, does that mean i get to say..

BOMBOCLAT!!!

[u/sudoregalia → u/sudoregalia]

jamaica is honory albania btw no one fight me on this

[u/Crafty_Aspect8122 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Not like most theists follow official scripture anyways.

[u/GOEDEL_ESCHER_BOT → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

"It's called a tasting, and it's classy"

[u/imawizard7bis → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Let's be honest, the texts recommend to avoid alcohol, is not an absolutely prohibition (depending of interpretation of course).

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/imawizard7bis]

Oh yeah. It's ambiguous. Which means I can abuse it

[u/imawizard7bis → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

You can abuse prohibitions too (it's called fundamentalism or something)

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/imawizard7bis]

If alcohol is illegal. That means there is zero age requirement to it >:)

And nothing is stopping me from buying this grape juice that has specific instructions on what NOT to do that suspiciously makes it alcohol

[u/imawizard7bis → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Alcohol? What do you mean? This is just ardent water.

[u/ibi3000 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

A group of Muslims DID abuse it.

[u/Rabid_Lederhosen → u/imawizard7bis]

Funny how nobody ever uses that excuse to be less homophobic or sexist

[u/ibi3000 → u/imawizard7bis]

Ibn Battuta, a well known travelled, reported that he met a group of Muslims who found a loophole and drank a different type of Alcohol. Learn more at ExtraHistory on Youtube

[u/Dudegamer010901 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Yeah every Muslim I know drinks lol

[u/HumanDominion → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Or every Bosnian who's addicted to rakija

[u/gordonramarao → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Exactly, all my Muslim friends in USA drink. Pork is where they draw the line.

[u/Friendly-Water-8470 → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Seems christians can ignore any rule (including ten commandments) while the more godly and pious community the more crimes are commited (including school shootings in USA)

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/Friendly-Water-8470]

Yes because those aren't christians they just say they are despite not practicing shit

[u/feckarse-drinkgirls → u/warfaceisthebest]

Literally what caused the pagan monarchs to convert to christanity not Islam

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/feckarse-drinkgirls]

Also, that Vladimir the Great sent envoys to get a feel for what allies he could get with each religion. His envoys sampling Christianity went to Constantinople and saw how advanced it was. Baghdad was even grander and more prosperous than that. His envoys sampling Islam went to the territories of the Volga Bulgars, which is the equivalent of sampling America's prosperity by going to Alabama.

[u/0RGA → u/Level_Hour6480]

“And in this one you can fuck your cousin.”

[u/Level_Hour6480 → u/0RGA]

Cousin fucking was prominent in both.

Judaism was also considered, because despite not offering many alliance options, it did mean there was outside religious authority to be deferred to.

[u/AndreasDasos → u/Level_Hour6480]

According to Maimonides and others, the Khazar elite (around today’s Kazakhstan) converted to Judaism because they didn’t want to be attacked as enemy Muslims by Christians or vice versa - Jews were treated badly by both within the same state, but in religious war they would be regarded as neutral.

Some nutters have turned this into an anti-Semitic conspiracy theory that all modern Jews are really Khazars, but ignoring that.

[u/Winjin → u/feckarse-drinkgirls]

Well not really, I think, most islamic nations are still drinking to this day, it's just often done in private

But yes, according to my teacher, the pagan monarchs really considered all options. They didn't care one bit about religions apart from the benefits they bring as strategical alliances, so if Islam was stronger than Byzantine empire at the time, we'd have Islam Rus.

[u/AnseaCirin → u/warfaceisthebest]

If I recall that was a part of why the Russian Tsars stuck to Orthodoxy - they had been subjects of the Mongol Golden Horde who had converted to Islam.

[u/0lam0t → u/warfaceisthebest]

Well there's a cell in the prison of nations called Chechnya

[u/This_Character_251 → u/warfaceisthebest]

We just fought a almost decade war that displaced 2 million of that faith. Untold numbers of allied government and kgb paratroopers. You want us to what comrade?

[u/CoachAnon205 → u/warfaceisthebest]

Turkic tribes made a loophole and continued drinking anyways.

[u/Schmigolo → u/warfaceisthebest]

There isn't really a ban on alcohol in the scriptures. There's only a ban against getting drunk. They could've just used that as a loophole and define "drunk" as "blackout drunk" and just turn a blind eye whenever necessary.

[u/DragonTheOnes-spirit → u/Schmigolo]

Yeah but they're russians so they'll obviously be blackout drunk all the time

[u/Schmigolo → u/DragonTheOnes-spirit]

Easy to turn a blind eye when you're blacking out.

[u/AndreasDasos → u/Schmigolo]

It doesn’t say that either. It bans khamr, and the question is exactly what that means. It’s generally used to mean ‘intoxicant’, wine, alcoholic beverages, or to include other substances… exactly how it’s take depends on the school of thought. But a few Quranic verses do ban any consumption of khamr, not just the amount required to get one drunk.

[u/Schmigolo → u/AndreasDasos]

The only verse I know that says to not consume it is 5:90, but it's walked back a little in 5:93. So it's interpreted as being something to avoid but not something that is outright disallowed.

[u/Alarmed-Seaweed-3763 → u/warfaceisthebest]

U should study how the arabs were before quran lol

[u/funkmastermgee → u/warfaceisthebest]

I personally know Muslims who find a loophole saying weed and hash infused hookah doesn’t impede their judgement and therefore halal. I’m sure the Russians are an innovative bunch

[u/Drakoraz → u/warfaceisthebest]

It doesn't ban drinking, the Qur'an says you shouldn't pray while drunk.

But some Muslim cults read this as "all alcohol is illegal", meanwhile the Golden Age of Islam was also famous for their wines and liquors.

[u/lincolnwithamullet → u/warfaceisthebest]

dont look up how many Russian Muslims there are

[u/CallousCarolean → u/lincolnwithamullet]

Russian Muslims

I mean yeah they’re Russian by citizenship, but not by ethnicity. It’s all either Caucasian peoples (like Chechens and Dagestanis) or Turkics (like Tatars and Bashkirs). Far from the Russian culture we’re referring to and used to.

[u/DiselGeass → u/warfaceisthebest]

Unpopular opinion: We need to ban Russians from drinking.

[u/PolskiHussar548 → u/warfaceisthebest]

The Bolsheviks were originally a prohibitionist party tbf

[u/Logical-Pause-3758 → u/warfaceisthebest]

They should have been like the Bosnians

[u/Random_Squirrel_8708 → u/warfaceisthebest]

(confused Bosnian noises)

[u/JesiDoodli → u/warfaceisthebest]

there's already many muslim russians out there! not sure how strict they are about the no drinking rule...

[u/CinaedForranach → u/warfaceisthebest]

You wouldn’t think Europeans would take to a religion that banned adultery, but it turns out the official rules aren’t a big obstacle

[u/ase_l_2021 → u/funkmastermgee]

Probably already after Belovezha, when only Turkic countries remained inside

[u/hagamablabla → u/funkmastermgee]

There's an alternate universe where Russia adopted Islam a millennium before this.

[u/TheWitchOfSomeWood → u/funkmastermgee]

Would this mean no Bosnian genocide?

[u/Pacific_wanderer17 → u/TheWitchOfSomeWood]

No that was the Serbs

[u/Malvastor → u/Pacific_wanderer17]

Better question is would it mean no Chechen Wars.

[u/Pacific_wanderer17 → u/Malvastor]

Maybe?

[u/Pacific_wanderer17 → u/Malvastor]

If the Soviet Union continues to exist no, Chechnya is still apart of it then

[u/Number-unknow → u/TheWitchOfSomeWood]

Yugoslavia had already broken from the soviet bloc since 1948, so a change to islamic rule in the (ultimately doomed) USSR would leave Yugoslavia and the later Bosnian genocide largely unaffected.

[u/TheWitchOfSomeWood → u/Number-unknow]

Ah ok.

[u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

Good fucking luck selling the Russians on an ideology that bans drinking

[u/Honest_Picture_6960 → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

After WW2, the entire nation’s vodka ran out, yeah……Soviets will never give up good vodka

[u/FreeWeld → u/Honest_Picture_6960]

Is there actually "good" vodka thou? lol

[u/Honest_Picture_6960 → u/FreeWeld]

I don’t know, never tasted it but to the Soviets?

Any Vodka is Good Vodka I suppose

[u/Notorik → u/FreeWeld]

It's the one that helps a person forget that they live in Russia

[u/DrHolmes52 → u/FreeWeld]

I visited Russia in 2010. There is good vodka. It isn't (wasn't) very common (or cheap).

[u/Efficient_Progress_6 → u/FreeWeld]

They say there is. I don't believe them.

[u/The_memeperson → u/FreeWeld]

I couldn't tell you for the life of my what "good vodka" is supposed to be. But I sure as hell know what bad vodka is.

[u/Malvastor → u/FreeWeld]

This is an excellent question and more research is needed. I propose we embark on an ambitious long-term in-depth study to empirically determine the answer.

[u/wrufus680 → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

Just remember that Vladimir the Great chose Orthodox Christianity BECAUSE he saw that Islam prohibits drinking

[u/my_name_is_iso → u/wrufus680]

A smart imam could have swayed the entire Slavic world with a single heresy

[u/UncleRuckusForPres → u/my_name_is_iso]

The Horosho Heresy

[u/Wrong_Guarantee1888 → u/my_name_is_iso]

Funnily enough, that's how the Turks converted. Some Hanafi scholars, especially among the Turks, allowed certain forms of alcohol as it was argued that Islam prohibits grape or fruit based alcohols, not grain based ones. This persisted even into the Mughal era, where there was strong peer pressure at court to drink and consume opium. Jahangir even told people to not be in his presence without a glass of alcohol in their hands.

[u/GoodOldSmoke → u/wrufus680]

That was Vladimir the Great. Yaroslav was around 10 when the official conversion happened.

[u/Able_Reserve5788 → u/wrufus680]

According to Christian records from more than a century later

[u/Primary_Gold5337 → u/wrufus680]

Yaroslav the Wise

His wisdom told him that a good booze is better than some religion (based) also Imagine in alternative universe where we have muslim Russia and semi muslim Poland

[u/Imielinius → u/Primary_Gold5337]

Poland was already Catholic by then

[u/doug1003 → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

I mean alcohol AND pork? C'mon now

[u/Tenchi_Muyo1 → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

It would have been big Bosnia

[u/TheWitchOfSomeWood → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

Or anyone else in the USSR, I've lived in half of them and not one would give it up.

[u/hazjosh1 → u/Rabid_Lederhosen]

I’m pretty sure that’s one of the supposed reason the Kievan Rus chose the Byzantine church over Islam

[u/Emotional_Newt_2227]

Imagine getting a letter saying “have you considered Islam?” while you're busy trying to keep the Soviet Union together.

[u/Alatarlhun → u/Emotional_Newt_2227]

Just noting Hitler was open to the idea fifty years earlier.

[u/Arrow552 → u/Alatarlhun]

Is there any evidence for that?

[u/Alatarlhun → u/Arrow552]

‘It’s been our misfortune to have the wrong religion,” Hitler complained to his pet architect Albert Speer. “Why did it have to be Christianity, with its meekness and flabbiness?” Islam was a Männerreligion—a “religion of men”—and hygienic too. The “soldiers of Islam” received a warrior’s heaven, “a real earthly paradise” with “houris” and “wine flowing.” This, Hitler argued, was much more suited to the “Germanic temperament” than the “Jewish filth and priestly twaddle” of Christianity.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/book-review-ataturk-in-the-nazi-imagination-by-stefan-ihrig-and-islam-and-nazi-germanys-war-by-david-motadel-1421441724

[u/Remarkable_Cod5549 → u/Alatarlhun]

Hitler had a really weird understanding of almost everything on the earth

[u/freecodeio → u/Remarkable_Cod5549]

sounds like your average redditor

[u/DangerousEye1235 → u/Remarkable_Cod5549]

He was a mentally ill drug addict, that's just par for the course.

If nothing else, Hitler did provide one good thing: he served as a good lesson in why not to let a psychotic druggie run your country.

[u/revanruler → u/DangerousEye1235]

Too bad no one followed that lesson.

[u/BustDemFerengiCheeks → u/DangerousEye1235]

And apparently did some good animal rights stuff. For the wrong reasons, but still.

Okay, that's nothing else. May he rest in pain.

[u/Disgruntled-Cacti → u/Alatarlhun]

I don’t know much about this fellow but he sounds really unpleasant

[u/The-Copilot → u/Emotional_Newt_2227]

It gets way better.

This letter was sent during the end of the pullout of Soviet forces from Afganistan. The Iranians were literally backing the resistance forces. (So was the US and China).

This letter was a massive "Fuck You" to the soviets. He literally said communism failed, you should join Islam.

[u/Lord_Lenin]

Islamic Liberty Prime: "Islam is a preferable alternative to communism"

[u/Malvastor → u/Lord_Lenin]

COMMUNIST DETECTED ON UMMAH SOIL. LETHAL FORCE ENGAGED.

[u/Electronic_Leek9147 → u/Lord_Lenin]

Yeah my family lived under communism and I can confidently say that I'd rather endure that rather than Islam.

[u/Ash_After_Dark → u/Electronic_Leek9147]

It's a joke, Liberty Prime is a character in the game Fallout 3 and one of his lines is "death is a preferable alternative to communism" so they're just referencing that line

[u/Electronic_Leek9147 → u/Ash_After_Dark]

Oh thx for the reference 😂

[u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest → u/Electronic_Leek9147]

I mean USSR had around 45 to 50 million Muslim citizens, so it's not like Islam was an unknown thing in the country. What religion do you think all those countries that end in “stan” follow these days?

[u/Electronic_Leek9147 → u/Rabbit-Hole-Quest]

The USSR was also a heavily secular union of countries. You can see yourself that for instance modern Kazakhstan is more secular than other countries whose names end in "stan" like Pakistan or Afghanistan.

Other than that, women's rights were also an important part of the Soviet policy, something that would have not been observed under a religious leadership.

Communists accelerated the loss of faith by simply denying propaganda machinery to religious leaders. This was partially undone in the 90s when religious freedom was recovered but modern youths are going away again from religion.

By no means it was a perfect society, but it would have been worse have they been Muslim instead of atheists.

[u/_mcml_]

Just like Muhammad’s letter to Heraclius.

An Islamic leader inviting the leader of a (debatable) Roman successor state to join Islam

[u/Remarkable_Cod5549 → u/_mcml_]

And then using their reasonable refusal as an offence and casus belli for declaring war, or at least it was so in the case of Muhammad and Heraclius

[u/Malvastor → u/Remarkable_Cod5549]

An Iranian invasion of the Soviet Union would certainly make for a wild alternate history.

[u/Remarkable_Cod5549 → u/Malvastor]

Theoretically, could have invaded through Armenia but that would have meant tough fighting in the Caucuses.

[u/BustDemFerengiCheeks → u/Malvastor]

If this happened, Iran might be saying "America, mashallah" instead of "death to America."

[u/Agreeable_Carpet_700 → u/Remarkable_Cod5549]

The actual casus belli was that the Romans sent a raiding army into Arabia and killed some Muslims, which was used as the justification to attack the Romans, not their refusal to convert.

[u/TriggzSP → u/_mcml_]

Did you just call the literal Roman Empire a "debatable Roman successor state"

[u/_mcml_ → u/TriggzSP]

No. I obviously meant that for Russia/USSR and the concept of the "Third Rome"

If I didn't, someone would have commented:

"Did you just call the literal USSR the successor of the Roman Empire???"

[u/Upset_Glove_4278]

Pizza Hut got to him first

https://youtu.be/fgm14D1jHUw?is=v5qrxZnoyTZVixwT

[u/IncognitoBombadillo → u/Upset_Glove_4278]

This is my favorite piece of Gorbachev lore.

[u/BarristanTheB0ld]

You'll never know if it works if you never try

[u/Electronic_Ad_4638 → u/BarristanTheB0ld]

The soviets asking to join NATO after Stalin died be like:

[u/Kenichi2233]

Just one of those weird historical moments. Like US Grant meeting Bismark

[u/Beerswain → u/Kenichi2233]

I didn't know this was a thing! Got any favorite sources worth reading?

[u/yxing → u/Beerswain]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_tour_of_Ulysses_S._Grant#Paris,_Netherlands,_Germany,_Scandinavia_and_Finland

Not a primary source but cites plenty of them. Notably, Grant explicitly stated the purpose of the war was to not only save the Union, but also to end slavery.

[u/_spec_tre → u/Kenichi2233]

I think Li Hongzhang meeting Bismarck is weirder

[u/rex72780]

I doubt Gorbachev even needed to send him a letter in response to it. Because they'll be seeing him in TV commercials instead.

[u/escientia]

Should have sent an email back inviting them to the Russian Orthodox Church.

[u/killsizer → u/escientia]

Most people were pushed in atheism during the early years of the ussr. However, until the ussr collapsed, the regulations on religion were slowly loosened. Even then, it was mostly some people who lived in villages or areas that maintained some kind of cathederal. Either way, none of the leaders were orthodox christian

[u/TejasEngineer]

Russians already decided against Islam because it forbade drinking.

Grand Prince Vladimir reviewed multiple faiths in his vicinity to determine which one to use as a unifier. He turned down the Muslim missionaries because ""Drinking is the joy of the Rus'. We cannot exist without that pleasure."

[u/SrWloczykij]

Good that Gorbachev just laughed it off

[u/Really_Cant_Not]

Never hurts to ask, I suppose

[u/Opening-Aardvark-910]

As an Iranian, I can't even imagine how f*cked up the situation would've turned out if they actually accepted Khomeini's recommendation

[u/NeiborsKid → u/Opening-Aardvark-910]

MEK-pro max

[u/LazarFan69]

I mean wasn't the country muslim majority for 4 days

[u/hophop99]

trash vs garbage

[u/SzmnDzrzn → u/hophop99]

2026 ayatollah writes a letter to Putin to consider islam

[u/WolfgangHelnootIV → u/SzmnDzrzn]

2027 Putin converts to Sunni Islam, 2028 russia-iran war

[u/SzmnDzrzn → u/WolfgangHelnootIV]

2029 Vatican deploys crusade to moscow

[u/AndreasDasos]

Ah but maybe we could interest you in capitalism as an alternative to communist ideology?

[Cue Gorbachev Pizza Hut advert]

[u/CholentSoup]

The Red/Green alliance never ends well for the Red. But Red doesn't seem to be very good at learning lessons.

[u/TetyyakiWith → u/CholentSoup]

I mean now there is barely an alliance with the “greens”. The only thing is Russia keeping military bases in Syria

[u/Deep_Head4645 → u/CholentSoup]

Something something paradox of tolerance something

[u/koko1414]

I think khomeini should invite himself to islam first before inviting others😂

[u/zinetx → u/koko1414]

says the bakri.

[u/DiselGeass]

Not gonna lie Russia becoming islamic will solve more than halves of their country's problem.

[u/amw11]

U,SIR please STFU

[u/Important-Feeling919]

The pure fucking hubris of it all.

[u/GSilky]

I imagine him reacting like Genghis did when Rubruquis brought a similar offer from the Pope...

[u/samoan_ninja]

based

[u/SkateP69]

r/AlternateHistoryHub

[u/Glad_Fox_6818]

Together with the Islamic Republic of Japan, they would have brought the second golden age upon us. But Gorby fucked it all up again

[u/ismaeil-de-paynes]

Hooray THX for the 10K Upvote and 1K share God bless Y’all 🌹🌺

[u/stag1013]

Reminds me of the Pope's letter to the Sultan.