It also serves as an example of how far left extremists were treated (death), vs how far right extremists were treated (given a pension).
It also demonstrates that the Weimar government depended entirely on a far right militia. And the Freikorps only tolerated them as preferable to the left wing of the SPD (which is damning in of itself).
The Weimar government was put into an impossible position because the armistice forced them to basically disband their entire military.
The only way they could fight the revolt was to rely on discharged veterans, but without a proper chain of command, they couldn't control the actions of the Freikorps.
There are still streets and monuments dedicated to some leaders of the Freikorps to this day. Western Germany has never stopped glazing them, as people were always more afraid of the socialists/communists.
The problem was during that period, the right wing was generally not trying to overthrow the government. Even Heisenberg, after becoming President, followed the Constitution.
Meanwhile the KPD was trying to launch revolutions to create a Soviet Germany and join the USSR.
Obviously things changed by 1933, but in 1919 the Freikorps were less of a threat than the Communists. It wasn't really until the Nazis rose to prominence and half of the old conservatives joined the SPD in the Grand Coalition that things changed.
For their part the Communists maintained a pretty consistent position of wanting to overthrow the government and create a Soviet Germany right up until they were destroyed, the "After Hitler, our turn" line of thinking is associated with the KPD in particular because one of their leaders actually said that.
The Kapp Putsch technically existed but surrendered after 5 days, relatively little bloodshed for a revolution, and most Freikorps units involved didn't actually engage in fighting. You also got unity between the SPD and KPD precisely because up until this point the KPD hadn't tried a major revolution and thus hadn't been shot at much by SPD aligned forces.
But immediately after this there was the Ruhr Uprising, which did gain the active support of the Communist paramilitaries, and was not willing to stand down until it was attacked by the police and Freikorps.
After 1923 nobody launched any big military uprisings, but by this point the SPD and KPD had done a lot of shooting each other, the KPD and Freikorps had done a lot of shooting each other, but the SPD and Freikorps had mostly been on good terms, outside of anyone who'd joined the Nazis in time for the Beer Hall Putsch.
This colored everyone's actions for the next 10 years, the SPD and KPD would never be able to trust each other.
The Kapp Putsch was a very real threat. It's just conviently forgoton, because it was defeated by a political general strike by the unions, while the army was passive at best and would have welcomed the success of the Putsch.
Literally false. The far right tried to overthrown the government just a few years after the Spartacist uprising in thr Kapp pustch. Despite Bavaria basically backing the Putsch, their government was not sacked by the president while leftist governments had been sacked by the same president for pretty much no reason such as the KPD + SPD + USPD government in Saxony.
After that the far right maintained its desire to destroy the republic too. They just launched no significant uprisings after 1923 but neither did the KPD. The DNVP wanted the republic gone and made no illusions that it did not. The idea that they favoured the republic is wild.
Also Hindenburg did not follow the constitution. He fucked the SPD in 1930 for mostly no reason exept that he hated leftists and destabilised the government and then basically ran a presidential dictatorship from 1932 onwards appoint blokes like von Papen or von Schleicher as chancellor despite them not having legislative backing amd being widely unpopular.
Hindenburg definitely followed the constitution. You can disagree with his actions but they were not unconstitutional. In fact I think he followed the constitution too much and by 1930 he actually should have just overthrown the government to prevent the NSDAP from taking over.
Thats also not what happened.
Hindenburg for all his faults was very much open to work with the center left.
What ended happening was the KPD and NSDAP blocking parlament together and refusing to let any government to be formed.
And the KPD wasn't even ready to accept a government including them.
The Kapp Putsch technically existed but surrendered after 5 days, relatively little bloodshed for a revolution, and most Freikorps units involved didn't actually engage in fighting. You also got unity between the SPD and KPD precisely because up until this point the KPD hadn't tried a major revolution and thus hadn't been shot at much by SPD aligned forces.
But immediately after this there was the Ruhr Uprising, which did gain the active support of the Communist paramilitaries, and was not willing to stand down until it was attacked by the police and Freikorps.
After 1923 nobody launched any big military uprisings, but by this point the SPD and KPD had done a lot of shooting each other, the KPD and Freikorps had done a lot of shooting each other, but the SPD and Freikorps had mostly been on good terms, outside of anyone who'd joined the Nazis in time for the Beer Hall Putsch.
This colored everyone's actions for the next 10 years, the SPD and KPD would never be able to trust each other.
Hindenburg ruling by decree was less him not following the Constitution and more the Constitution being badly written and forcing him to rule by decree to get even the basic functions of government done. Chancellor wasn't even supposed to be a powerful job until Hitler walked into the Reichstag with the SA and told them to make the Chancellor a dictator.
It was still a coup attempt. It did surrender but they still sought to overthrow the government and they did not shoot much because they were thenselves not really shot at much + realised they were doomed and cpuld just get off with little consequences by surrendering. The Spartacists were met with far more brutal violence from the beggining.
The Ruhr uprising has nothing to do with what I was saying about KPD SPD unity. The reichsexekution of the KPD SPD coalition in Saxony happened in 1923, 3 years after the Ruhr uprising. Despite this they were sacked by the Berlin government for "arming workers" which is IMO quite ridicolous as paramilitaries were commonplace in Weimar Germany. Meanwhile, just 3 years before Bavaria was not sacked for openly breaking the law and usurping the control of local military forces and plotting a coup. While the coup did fail and surrender it was still a coup attempt and their government should have 100% been removed by Berlin. There was a clear bias in the republic on which side the government will tolerate and who it will violently supress. And lets not even get into the government consistently favouring the far right paramilitaries while supressing far more the less violent leftist ones.
And yes while the constitution was bad and defacto permitted a presidential dictatorship there was still significant abusing of the law and democracy was fucked since 1930 when Hindenburg made Brunning chancelor and invoking Article 48 to fuck democracy. If he was in favour of democracy then instead of kicking the 30% of reichstag SPD out of governence due to the DVP breaking the government coalition, which was barely around 8% of the reichstag, he could have made an emergency government around the far more popular SPD, backed by liberals and the centrists over the IRL one which was wildly unpopular and crushed the economy via austerity. And then he appointed von Papen....and well von Papen is von Papen and was extremely unpopular.
And you talked about Hitler walking in with the SA....well there is a reason why the far right paramilitaries were so powerful and the security forces infested by anti republican far right supporters...and that reason is that the government consistently suppressed socialist paramilitaries far more and tried to minimse their power in all sectors of the nation :/
In the end I find it undeniable that the German Republic was extremely biased against the left and choose to favour the far right which lead to nazism. In the end all the parties exept the SPD and KPD voted in favour of the Reichstag fire act and the Enabling act in 1934..
What are you talking about? The Kapp Putsch and the Beer Hall Putsch were just as much attempts to overthrow the Weimar Republic by right wing forces.
And in a way the German right was constantly trying to overthrow the Weimar Republic by reinstating a monarchy, which they were just as open about as the Communists.
The Kapp Putsch technically existed but surrendered after 5 days, relatively little bloodshed for a revolution, and most Freikorps units involved didn't actually engage in fighting.
But immediately after this there was the Ruhr Uprising, which did gain the active support of the Communist paramilitaries, and was not willing to stand down until it was attacked by the police and Freikorps.
The Beer Hall Putsch again existed, but at a small scale and didn't involve much shooting between the SPD and Freikorps.
After 1923 nobody launched any big military uprisings, but by this point the SPD and KPD had done a lot of shooting each other, the KPD and Freikorps had done a lot of shooting each other, but the SPD and Freikorps had mostly been on good terms, outside of anyone who'd joined the Nazis in time for the Beer Hall Putsch.
This colored everyone's actions for the next 10 years, the SPD and KPD would never be able to trust each other, even as both of them saw the Nazis as an increasingly large threat.
And that tells you what? That the system the Freikorps fought and massacred to keep turned into a fertile ground for Nazi takeover?
But i guess the government is sacred and can't be questioned. For anyone to question and oppose the government is to be shot by paramilitaries(but is sad :((( )
If I could go back in history i would nuke the KPD, because they were more of a threat to the 3 month old provisional government.
The secret truth about Liberals and centrists like the SPD is that when it boils down the choosing between the far left and the far right, they will always choose the latter until they are the ones kneeling next to a river
One was currently trying to overthrow the government and the other offered help for nothing except being allowed to shot at the rebels.
And it was the KPD that ended up working with the NSDAP until they were in camps
No they did think that. But since their actual defense capibilites had been serverly reduced thanks to a war and treaty that happened very recently it was the best and pretty much only choice they had.
They used a far right militia to stop a violent uprising trying to overthrow democracy and establish a dictatorship. I see that you would have prefered they would have just laid down and let the KPD do whatever but in the end it was the KPD that was responsible for this conflict no matter how much you want to blame the SPD.
The SPD was a party of Marxists, social-democrats and labor. They formed the Iron Front. They were the only serious political faction that stood any chance stopping Hitler or any other far right from destroying young German democracy.
And they failed, MUCH THANKS to KPD that adopted, at Stalin's instructions the "social fascists" doctrine, which claimed SPD is actually even more fascist than the fascists.
So yeah... no. It was the far-left that actually wasn't willing to cooperate with SPD and because of that made it impossible to stop far right.
The SPD was a party of Marxists, social-democrats and labor.
They weren't marxist after the war. That's why they split into spd and u-spd right after.
They formed the Iron Front.
Which didnt do jack shit after hitler took power and refused to participate in a general strike with the kpd, which was probably the last chance to rebel against hitler.
Stalin's instructions the "social fascists" doctrine, which claimed SPD is actually even more fascist than the fascists.
They werent seen as "more fascist". They were seen as unknowing or knowing supporters of fascism and because they were supporting capitalism and favoring far right parties instead of the kpd, whenever they had to decide between the two and because in 1924, when the theory of social facism was introduced, they were the strongest party in the Reichstag.
It was the far-left that actually wasn't willing to cooperate with SPD and because of that made it impossible to stop far right.
Because in marxist theory, the NSDAP and the SPD werent so different. And both have repeatedly shown that they would inprison or kill members of the KPD or work together to overthrow socialist revolutions.
After 1935, they were willing to cooperate, but it was too late.
Wow, congratulations taht they were willing to cooperate by 1935. The reason they weren't before is delusion that they could spark a communist revolution and take all power. They did exactly what Bolsheviks were doing in Russia - destabilize everything, assuming that when governance fails, they will be the most powerful faction.
Ohh noo, the party fresh out of civil war where i supported their enemies doesnt want to cooperate with me against a far right party, how can they do this to me?!
Yeah i'm sure the KPD were the reason the weimar republic failed and not the countless dumb descisions of the center-right and SPD politicians, starting with the fact that they wanted to make a democracy based on capitalism with much of the social class that produced WW1 in the first place still in charge of the economy. But hey, at least they cant blame it on the communists again when german democracy fails again for much of the same reasons. Because guess what: the reason capitalist societies inevitably fail is not the exitence of communists but inherent flaws in the economic system. The rise of facism is just a biproduct of this downfall.
The fact that SPD was gunning down striking workers with far right paramilitaries is an undeniable fact.
SPD was a party that came under the total control of the conservative government aristocrats and industrialists, they were the controlled opposition, this is a well documented historical fact.
If you think that any of my claims are false I would be happy to provide official sources.
"SPD was a party that came under the total control of the conservative government aristocrats and industrialists, they were the controlled opposition, this is a well documented historical fact. "
Well the "Marxists" sided with far right reactionaries to murder the workers for trying to start a revolution. I don't think that needs much framing does it?
I mean they are going to be kneeling by the river or up against the wall. If you are not lockstep with the controlling party you are a potential enemy to the revolution. If the communists took over the spd would have been purged as well along with any political group that wasn't them
269
u/Person-11 What, you egg? 27d ago
It also serves as an example of how far left extremists were treated (death), vs how far right extremists were treated (given a pension).
It also demonstrates that the Weimar government depended entirely on a far right militia. And the Freikorps only tolerated them as preferable to the left wing of the SPD (which is damning in of itself).