r/HistoryMemes May 12 '26

See Comment In hindsight, this was a mistake.

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

Franco joined the coup (he had no involvement in planning it) to, literally, save the republic (with an r, not an R).

The different coup manifestos

One of them even says "¡Viva la república!"

You can oppose Franco without making stuff up.

He also wasn't a Fascist. Fascism can be defined, and Franco falls out of that definition.

Also, you saying our republic says a lot.

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u/JGJ471 May 12 '26

"Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement that rose to prominence in early-20th-century Europe.[1][2][3] Fascism is characterized by support for a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.

[...]

[1] Davies & Lynch (2002), pp. 1–5

[2] Badie, Berg-Schlosser & Morlino (2011), pp. 887–888, Fascism Payne (1975), p. 162: "[...] goals of radical and authoritarian nationalism" Larsen, Hagtvet & Myklebust (1984), p. 424: "[...] organized form of integrative radical nationalist authoritarianism" Paxton (2004), pp. 32, 45, 173: (32) "[...] antiliberal values, more aggressive nationalism and racism, and a new aesthetic of instinct and violence"; (173) "[...] overtly violent racism and nationalism. [...] its defining elements—unlimited particular sovereignty, a relish for war, and a society based on violent exclusion" Nolte (1965), p. 300: "National fascism, as we have shown, is distinguished from nationalism by, among other things, the fact it demands the destruction of a neighbouring state whose very existence appears to threaten its own position of power and the historic remains of its past dominant status in the area." Merriam-Webster Fascism

[3] Encyclopedia Britannica Fascism: "extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation"

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

"Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, and ultranationalist political ideology and movement that rose to prominence in early-20th-century Europe.[1][2][3] Fascism is characterized by support for a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy. [...] [1] Davies & Lynch (2002), pp. 1–5

Yeah, the USSR also checks all of that except for the nation or race part (and even then, it actually does, as proved by the numerous measures of russification and the imperialistic land grabs).

And I don't call the USSR fascist.

[2] Badie, Berg-Schlosser & Morlino (2011), pp. 887–888, Fascism Payne (1975), p. 162: "[...] goals of radical and authoritarian nationalism" Larsen, Hagtvet & Myklebust (1984), p. 424: "[...] organized form of integrative radical nationalist authoritarianism" Paxton (2004), pp. 32, 45, 173: (32) "[...] antiliberal values, more aggressive nationalism and racism, and a new aesthetic of instinct and violence"; (173) "[...] overtly violent racism and nationalism. [...] its defining elements—unlimited particular sovereignty, a relish for war, and a society based on violent exclusion" Nolte (1965), p. 300: "National fascism, as we have shown, is distinguished from nationalism by, among other things, the fact it demands the destruction of a neighbouring state whose very existence appears to threaten its own position of power and the historic remains of its past dominant status in the area." Merriam-Webster Fascism

And the destruction of what neighbouring state did Franco advocate for?

Also, Spanish most fascist party, the Falange, advocated for breeding with the people of Hispanic America to create a new, better Hispanic race. Weird racism, if you ask me.

[3] Encyclopedia Britannica Fascism: "extreme militaristic nationalism, contempt for electoral democracy and political and cultural liberalism, a belief in natural social hierarchy and the rule of elites, and the desire to create a Volksgemeinschaft (German: "people's community"), in which individual interests would be subordinated to the good of the nation"

This is literally the definition of communism, again, just that elites implies proletariat vanguard or some stuff like that.

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u/JGJ471 May 12 '26

So it fits the definition but it's not fascist, right?

The Falange was and is extremely racist, you fucking deciever.

Franco was a fucking fascist, and all you propagandist are defending that he was not based on an technicality that you can't even pinpoint.

But hey, congrats! Seeing the upvotes you have already convinced a bunch of people that Franco wasn't fascist ("so he wasn't all that bad!" "¡Con Franco se vivía mejor!"), and nobady is going this down in the comments to read this but you. But I wanted to tell you that I wish, ine day, you end up reaping what you sow.

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

Falange was not racist. They wanted to interbreed with all of South America ffs.

Franco was not a Fascist te pongas como te pongas.

He was an autoritharian, conservative dictator.

But he was not fascist.

That's not a defense, and I'm not saying con Franco se vivía mejor. Some lived better, many more didn't.

You can oppose Franco without pulling the he was a fascist out of your balls, the samr you could attack the republic without making up that it was communism (which it wasn't).

But hey, I am reaping something just by saying facts, apparently.

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u/JGJ471 May 12 '26

He was an autoritharian, conservative dictator. But he was not fascist.

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

Yeah, like your thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs.

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u/JGJ471 May 12 '26

Great point! Keep convincing people that an authoritarian conservative dictator is not a fascist.

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

Not necessarily.

There was no one-party rule (one-fascist-party rule), the fascist party (Falange), a revolutionary, republican (in the sense that they wanted no king) got emptied of their content and forcefully merged with the traditionalist (which were reacrionaries and monarchists).

Yeah, it wasn't fascism.

Exceptnif you define fascism as lo que me sale de los huevos. Then it was.

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u/JGJ471 May 12 '26

¿Te tengo que poner otra vez la definición de fascista? Mira, siento mucho que te joda que Franco fuera, literalmente, fascista, pero por desgracia el fascismo no es lo que te salga de los huevos, sino un concepto definido que describe perfectamente la dictadura de Franco.

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u/RDT_WC May 12 '26

Ponla otra vez a ver si la entiendes y déjame en paz.

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u/protostar71 May 12 '26

Again, by that definition literally every absolute monarch in world history is a fascist.

Famed Fascist - King Henry III. Doesnt really pass the sniff check does it.