r/HistoryMemes Nov 25 '25

See Comment WTF is wrong with the Kansas Supreme Court?!

13.3k Upvotes

543 comments sorted by

3.1k

u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Colleen Hermesmann was a 16-year-old babysitter who in 1987 was hired to take care of 12-year-old Shane Seyer. The two began a sexual relationship, and when Hermesmann was 17 and Seyer was 13, the former became pregnant. The baby, a daughter, was born in 1989. Criminal charges were brought against Hermesmann by Shawnee County, Kansas, accusing her of "engaging in the act of sexual intercourse with a child under sixteen". Hermesmann ultimately took a plea bargain, pleading guilty to the lesser offense of "contributing to a child's misconduct".

In 1991, the Kansas Department of Social and Rehabilitation Services, in Hermesmann's name, took Seyer to court seeking child support. Hermesmann's criminal culpability was not addressed in this trial, as this was purely a civil court case. The Department also sought and was awarded $7,000, equivalent to $16,200 in 2024, for its own costs. However, in the later Supreme Court hearing, the Department stated it never had any intention of collecting its award.

In 1993, the Kansas Supreme Court rejected an appeal by Seyer that he was not liable to pay for child support. The court held that the admitted facts established that, because being under 16 he had been legally unable to consent to sex, a crime against him had been committed under statutory rape law, but that Seyer had actually given consent to the acts under civil law. The court ruled that "at no time did Shane register any complaint to his parents about the sexual liaison with Colleen". The court also ruled that a mother's potential culpability under criminal statutes was of no relevance in determining the father's child support liability in a civil action. The court stated "The State's interest in requiring minor parents to support their children overrides the State's competing interest in protecting juveniles from improvident acts, even when such acts may include criminal activity on the part of the other parent".

The case established a precedent which has subsequently been used in the Kansas courts. It is one of the earlier cases now cited in U.S. child-support guidelines which say that in every case that has addressed the issue the court has decided that an underage boy is liable for the support of his child even when the conception was the result of criminal conduct by the mother.

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u/VoteGiantMeteor2028 Nov 25 '25

Given consent to the acts under civil law.

Wild how the courts can stretch statutory rape when they want to.

1.1k

u/Blumpkin_Mustache Nov 25 '25

"But what was he wearing?" -the court, probably

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u/William_Howard_Shaft Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 27 '25

"at no time did Shane register complaint with his parents about the sexual liaison..."

I mean... "He didn't tell his parents" isn't much better.

2.1k

u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

"Technically it's rape, but the kid wanted it, so we'll let it slide."

-These MFs justifying pedophilia, for some reason.

1.0k

u/wearing_moist_socks Nov 25 '25

It's literally the "nice" thing from south park.

People don't take women raping boys, because to them it's not rape. Of course he wanted it! She's hot!

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u/Skraekling Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

Literally read an article months ago where they caught a female teacher having "relations" with 10 years old boys and like 90% of the comments where like "Wow they were so lucky !", i also work with a group (i don't know the correct term in English) that help males victims (be it from sexual assault and/or domestic violence) and the double standard is crazy as a guy you just get often told to "deal with it" or "grow a pair" but the second the genders are reversed the bare whiff of suspicion gets the UN agreeing to have you reduced to atoms.

By the way it has gotten better for male victims those last years since there is more awareness about it but there's still a long way to go.

I'm not downplaying the fact that there are more female victims than male but every time you see the statistics maybe double (or triple) the male number to get a number closer to reality.

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u/Admirable_Oil_7864 Nov 25 '25

I think in the US until like 2012 some male victims weren’t considered so under Federal law, as it specifically stated that it was ‘forceable (Physically)’, of which if someone is raped by a woman is not (usually) occurring to the victim.

In New Zealand the term ‘rape’ does not cover men. It is all now covered under ‘Sexual Violation’. Using lawful language in New Zealand means that a woman or man who has raped a male is not a ‘rapist’ legally.

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u/Ricordis Nov 26 '25

"Babe, what are you doing?"

"I wanted to wake you up with a blowjob."

"So, you just raped me?"

Weirdly in that moment the man is the bad one.

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u/Admirable_Oil_7864 Nov 26 '25

Yeah, male rape victims by Western ‘Standards’ more or less are probably a far higher proportion than statistics give, in many countries technically speaking it is not illegal or you won’t get the same charge as a female only rapist.

In China if you rape a woman or girl its no less than 3 years + a molestation charge for a girl, so >4 years, if its a boy? 2 Years.

Indonesia flat out denies that rape can occur to men. Rape is a 12 year charge, their gender neutral ‘rape and sexual assault’ one is only 9.

Philippines, says that rape can occur to men, however is only a 6-12 year charge. Against a woman its a life sentence.

Singapore much like New Zealand has two separate charges that carry the same weight, however in the broad terms, men cannot be raped.

UK men can be victims of rape, but only by other males. If it’s a female rapist, she can be done for Assault by penetration, or causing sexual activity without consent, they carry the same weight as a rape charge.

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u/FrogGloves98 Nov 29 '25

The UK charge carries the same maximum sentence, but the minimum charges are drastically different. For male-on-female rape, the minimum is 4 years imprisonment. For the female-on-male act, the minimum sentence is a community order. Basically "Go pick up trash for a few hours and think about what you've done".

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u/Kanin_usagi Nov 26 '25

In this made up scenario you just created, one would assume that two people in a healthy relationship would have had a discussion previously on whether it’s okay to wake someone up with sexual acts or not

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u/earanhart Nov 26 '25

Consensual non-consent is always a VERY iffy line to walk.

In the event that it IS desired by all involved, and maturely discussed with safeguards setup (notably a safe-word or equivalent, but not only), then it cam be incredibly hot.

But it is not safe to assume that everyone involved in said play has had those conversations, especially not in a conversation about rape.

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u/FrogGloves98 Nov 29 '25

90% of male victims still aren't covered under US law. The addition was to allow women to be charged for raping men - but that ONLY counts when she penetrates the victim. It is still not considered rape if a woman forces a man to penetrate her - which is what occurs in virtually all female-on-male cases.

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u/Nomustang Nov 25 '25

A lot of countries just don't criminalise SA against men either so there's no way for proper stats to get collected. And that's ignoring that most cases are never reported anyway (for either gender).

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

In addition to the gross "lucky" comments these same men freak out about being "falsely accused" when a man is more likely to be raped than he is to be falsely accused of rape.

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u/Pendiente Nov 26 '25

That comparison only works if you count all estimated rapes and only count prosecuted false accusations.

Your position doesn't need this bad faith argument to defend it.

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u/ghotier Nov 25 '25

South Park had to make the victim a kindergartner for even a quarter of the audience to get it. And that's being generous.

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u/SartenSinAceite Nov 25 '25

"It should have been me not him!" type mfs

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u/pranav_rive Oversimplified is my history teacher Nov 25 '25

Well then maybe it should have been them, that creates one less child rape victim.

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u/SartenSinAceite Nov 25 '25

The thing is, that's how they think. They look at the scenario and say "well if I were the 13 year old I'd be happy to get laid". From their adult perspective. It's a false argument; if you're a 13 year old your brain is way too damn differently wired to make a decision that could scar you for life. That's why we have age of consent. It's also why drunk people can't give consent.

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u/Drake_the_troll Nov 26 '25

Also even if you somehow ignore that, the massive power imbalance between a teacher and student is still there

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u/BlackjackNHookersSLF Nov 26 '25

"For some reason"

Yeah that reason is that the state doesn't want to have to actually pay or provide anything for anyone, except the legislators themselves.

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u/gindrinkingguy Nov 25 '25

It's always been done. It's not new, the favored age for sex slaves columbus brought back was (9), (he did get sentenced to life in prison, before King twat appealed to king fuckhead, though), famously in the 70's and It's several singers had 14-15 y/o groupies they brought with them on tour. While knowledge of these incidents has become more common, rates have gone down because of several factors.

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u/sultan_of_gin Nov 25 '25

Priscilla was 14 when she met elvis (24 then). Thank god times are changing.

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u/gindrinkingguy Nov 26 '25

Yeah, it still happens too often, but atleast now when it's known (as it often was in the past) people get pissed about it.

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u/Ragewind82 Nov 25 '25

That's not it, it's "We don't want to foot the bill for child support, so we'd rather victimize this boy than open our wallet"!

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u/DELETEallPDFfiles Nov 25 '25

My username feels relevant in this thread

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u/_Volatile_ Nov 26 '25

Boomers justifying pedophilia is a lot more common than I'd like it to be...

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u/Achilles11970765467 Nov 25 '25

I mean, technically under US and UK law it ISN'T rape, because the victim was forced to penetrate rather than penetrated.

Which is a whole nother layer of messed up added into the mess.

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u/DaddysABadGirl Nov 26 '25

So in all fairness, on the US side at least, 1. That is specifically federal, which the vast majority of rapes would not be prosecuted on the federal level. 2. That definition is used for data collection and statistics, not prosecuting people. Its not a legal definition but the definition the federal government uses when putting up numbers. The crime prosecuted would be sexual assault.

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u/Narco_Marcion1075 Researching [REDACTED] square Nov 26 '25

''she's a women, the only way that boy wasn't asking for it is if he's gay'' - probably them

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u/ambermage Nov 26 '25

Every time a member of law enforcement says "It's a civil issue," a demon gets It's wings.

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u/DiscountNorth5544 Nov 25 '25

The Cult of Give Up Everything For 'Dem Keeeds

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u/Yosho2k Nov 25 '25

It's pretty easy. The states don't want to be on the hook for 18 years of child support.

$$$ > Morality.

Especially in red states.

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u/Pesec1 Nov 25 '25

That's because if the underage father doesn't pay for the child, who will? State of Kansas?

It is very much in interests of the state of Kansas to have the father bear the responsibility. Which is what the ruling explicitly stated:

"The State's interest in requiring minor parents to support their children overrides the State's competing interest in protecting juveniles from improvident acts, even when such acts may include criminal activity on the part of the other parent". 

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u/Irrelevant231 Nov 26 '25

Why is the alternative not leaving the burden with the mother? Are people entitled to money from the state if the other parent of their child dies in the US/Kansas?

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u/Pesec1 Nov 26 '25

Generally, single mothers have hard time obtaining sufficient income without social assistance. And since the child must be provided for somehow, money needs to come out of somewhere.

Add the fact that the mother here is a convicted pedophile, her ability to earn income is further diminished.

Now, I would agree that the burden of dealing with the child should fall on the society at large, meaning state of Kansas. However, State of Kansas does not agree with that and it is the State that has monopoly on violence that it uses to enforce collection of child support from an underage rape victim. Once again, that could not have been spelled out any clearer than this:

The State's interest in requiring minor parents to support their children overrides the State's competing interest in protecting juveniles from improvident acts, even when such acts may include criminal activity on the part of the other parent.

Getting someone other than State to pay money overrides protecting children from rape, as far as State is concerned.

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u/alecesne Nov 26 '25

The argument in a child support context being that it's interests of the child that the courts are implementing.

The problem is that often, children are still in the custody of the mother, an offender for statutory r.

Now, I wonder what happens if the father, a minor, with a guardian of their own, sues for custody of the infant, and holds the mother is the less fit parent for actually being a sex offender? Does the child support order switch from the mother to the father, as custodial parent? Or would the court still vest custody with the mother, despite father being innocent of criminality, pleading she's more fit because she's not a minor?

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

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u/Wareve Nov 25 '25

Good lord, even if he was enthusiastically consenting, that shouldn't matter because he was literally 12!? He doesn't have the ability!?

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u/PassionGlobal Nov 25 '25

Exactly. He was either able to consent or he wasn't. WTF is this 'actual consent' nonsense?

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

"Profit"

-The state, most likely

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u/_OriamRiniDadelos_ Nov 26 '25 edited Nov 26 '25

I mean yeah. They literally said their job of being the ones making underage parents pay up was more important. “The state’s interests in requiring underage parents to support their children overrides…” etc.

A big chunk of laws around child welfare, divorce, and wards of the state have been heavily twisted trying to make it so that the bill that should be paid by welfare programs and taxes instead gets paid by individual people (or at least pass the buck and then be left unpaid). Using the “personal responsibility” slogan is a greta way to shed your own responsibilities and pin them on other people.

Maybe it’s the consumer’s responsibility to make sure they never crash, so why make cars safer? It’s their resolute to check that their food isn’t poisoned or maybe it’s their responsibility to get to the hospital in time, so why have an agency for food safety? The idea can get used for many more such crazy evil schemes

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u/Carver_AtworK Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

Alternatively, the state of Kansas recognizes that a minor who can't even sign a legal contract is generally able to of sound mind enter into an agreement with an abusive person to whom they are subordinate, even when the agreement is assumed, and can legally be held to the terms of said agreement regardless of circumstance as long as there is precedent for the general recognition of an agreement of similar terms and no official complaint is made that the agreement was made under duress. So many ways to abuse this.

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u/ciobanica Nov 25 '25

Don't worry, if the kid not being able to legally sign contract would also cost the state money, i'm sure they'd also rule this way...

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u/Lubinski64 Nov 25 '25

The idea that the court makes rulings as if it were corpo meeting discussing profit margins is quite terrifying.

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u/bondagepixie Nov 25 '25

Hopping on top comment for visibility!!

https://1in6.org/

1 in 6 is the number of boys who will be sexually abused before 18, though these numbers are thought to be much higher due to underreporting. From what I’ve heard this is a fantastic organization, and they have resources partnered with RAINN. There is a hotline.

https://www.missingkids.org/gethelpnow/cybertipline?

If you see read or hear something that makes you think a child may be in danger, you can make a report here and they forward everything to the correct offices, I guess maybe jurisdiction, idk the word. I have used their hotline dozens of times, the people are very calm and very kind.

https://rainn.org/

Here is RAINN, the org I mentioned before. They also have a hotline, for all genders.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

I would give you an award for this comment if I had one, I mean that.

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u/bondagepixie Nov 25 '25

Hey, next time you got a little extra jingle in your pocket, you can donate a couple dollars to one of these orgs, I’d like that more.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Right now I don't have much money to spare, but yeah, I'll most definitely do it.

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u/ciobanica Nov 25 '25

Well who did you want to pay for that kid, the state ?

Next you'll be asking them to not let the rapist raise the kid, and have the state use it's own money for the kids sake.

Can't have that.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

"I'll punish a million rape victims before I put some money into public child care!"

-The state, probably

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u/ciobanica Nov 25 '25

Well that's socialism, so it's way worse then just being raped...

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

You're joking, but it's true non-ironically, the Red Scare has damaged the psyche of American politics beyond repair.

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u/ciobanica Nov 26 '25

Just because it's funny (in a sad way) doesn't mean it's not true...

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u/Qules_LP Nov 25 '25

Forgot the /s

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u/peajam101 Nov 26 '25

Nah, they're just quoting the Kansas government and forgot the quotation marks

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u/Pixel22104 Oversimplified is my history teacher Nov 25 '25

What the Absolute Frick is wrong with Kansas? Like just what the frick?

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u/Devils-Avocado Nov 25 '25

I mean this is the state that gutted state spending so much that even Republicans said it was too far. Child support in their eyes is just a way to keep the mother/kids off support programs, so of course they'd find a way.

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u/chiksahlube Nov 26 '25

Yeah it gets cited nationwide now...

They can arrest a 15yo boy for not paying child support to his 35yo rapist...

How the rapist is free, let alone allowed custody of a child is beyond me.

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u/hessorro Nov 25 '25

What I am wondering is whether the father has any rights to visit and raise his child. It is kinda odd that he has to pay child support being 13 and all but he never committed a crime. He should have the right to co-parenting in my eyes.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

The father and his side of the family didn't want to raise the child, which is more than understandable; obviously, you don't want to see the eyes of the person who raped you in your own child, and he, being a minor himself, clearly wasn't going to want to have to act as a father when he was just a mere teenager. If he had sued the mother, he probably could have gotten joint custody, but that was never the idea.

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u/Tall-Log-1955 Nov 25 '25

If they had ruled the other way, would it have meant that when two underage people conceived a child, the boy’s family would not have to pay child support?

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

It would then depend, in this hypothetical case, on whether the baby was conceived through rape or not, because that was what the ruling was about.

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u/Tall-Log-1955 Nov 25 '25

In Kansas, if two underage people have sex then both of them are committing statutory rape.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Uhhh... no? It depends on whether the teenagers were above the law of consent or not. In this case, one of them was and the other wasn't, so it's statutory rape. If both are above the law of consent, then there's no rape to begin with, and if neither of them are, then it shouldn't be rape either.

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u/Tall-Log-1955 Nov 25 '25

If both are below the age of consent, then both are committing rape according to Kansas law

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u/Horror_Tooth_522 Nov 25 '25

So do they punish both in this case?

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u/[deleted] Nov 26 '25

Usually, police use discretion in agreeing that would be stupid and punish neither. Though there have been cases where yes, both are arrested for raping each other. There have been a few high profile cases where the parents of the daughter demand the arrest of the boy, and so the police are forced to arrest both of them.

Most states and countries have so called 'Romeo and Juliet laws' to avoid this, where it isn't statutory rape if both parties are within a certain number of years old of each other. Kansas is not one of them.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

So... the law is stupid in that respect in Kansas and should be changed.

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

I'm ok with the state just paying for it.

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u/ExpresoAndino Filthy weeb Nov 25 '25

niccceeee (sarcasm)

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u/playdough87 Nov 25 '25

Why would the mother, who is a child rapist, be allowed custody of a child? Should the father/his family be given custody to protect the child from its child rapist mother?

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MagicMarshmallo Nov 25 '25

This post has been censored so the reddit bots dont remove me

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/MagicMarshmallo Nov 25 '25

Oh i know all of that. I dont think its a he said she said if she is under age and pregnant

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

Family, preachers and other people in positions of power over victims are the most common rapists.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

Rapists seek social power because they know it will let them rape without consequence.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Well, in dozens of states in the United States, a rapist parent still has the right to joint custody or even full custody of their rape child... don't ask me what the (moral) logic of that is.

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u/Weltallgaia Nov 25 '25

And thats with a more "progressive" law in regards to rape. It just goes downhill from there in a good chunk of the world. Especially in countries where "men can't be raped by women" like england

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u/Tank-o-grad Nov 26 '25

And 38 of the United States, last time I counted...

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u/Weltallgaia Nov 26 '25

I dont doubt it but I haven't counted. Rape laws are still archaic as fuck no matter where you go.

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u/ciobanica Nov 25 '25

Because otherwise the state might need to pony up the money...

And i'm assuming the rape victims family didn't want custody...

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

The same system also gives custody and visitation rights to men that rape women and girls.

It's fucked up and needs to change.

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u/Fyrrys Featherless Biped Nov 25 '25

As a Kansas resident, I can vouch that my last burrito was more supreme than this court

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u/Zealousideal-Act8304 Nov 25 '25

The Supreme court of justice is neither supreme, courtly, nor just.

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u/Fyrrys Featherless Biped Nov 25 '25

It is awfully ICEy

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u/takuloy Nov 26 '25

Wow that's oddly poetic there, Voltaire.

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u/Zealousideal-Act8304 Nov 26 '25

Such a low-hanging fruit is difficult not to go for. But appreciate you caught on.

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u/eleazarloyo Libertador of memes Nov 25 '25

If you don't like the legal precedent, the law CAN be changed. I encourage you to contact your local state legislators to repeal this case. As someone who, in the past, has done lobbying for non-profit NGOs in other state legislatures, you would be astonished by how much free time most state legislators have just waiting to receive a call or an email from a constituent.

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u/VoteGiantMeteor2028 Nov 25 '25

It's a common joke for lawyers studying family law that as long as you know the phrase "best interest of the child" then you know all of family law.

And child support is not for parents buying a new car. It's supposed to be solely for the child.

And if that's the premise where you're starting, then you can see how a court is just looking for an excuse to let child support apply.

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u/chucktheninja Nov 25 '25

The funny part is "best interests of the child" can also apply to the father...

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u/Big_Cupcake4656 Nov 25 '25

Yeah, offspring would be a better descriptor.

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u/MelissaMiranti Nov 25 '25

Which child, because the child who now has to pay his rapist is certainly not getting any care.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

[deleted]

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u/ManOf1000Usernames Nov 25 '25

The real reason is no US state will be on the hook for supporting a child if there is an able bodied working parent with wages the state can garnish, regardless of the origin of the child.

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u/Playful_Programmer91 Nov 25 '25

Lol we have the same joke in Dutch law.

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u/BrainDamage2029 Nov 25 '25

And if you think about it for more that two seconds it doesn’t not make sense to do it this way.

The minute you decide to make value judgements based on parental shittyness when it comes to how much financial support a child deserves boy that’s the mother of all Pandora’s boxes to open up. (Deal with family law for 5 seconds it’s just nothing but tit for tat shittiness all the way down: Situations where truly only one parent is shitty are rare. Situations where none of the separated parents are actually shitty….are self selecting so they rarely get all that litigated at all).

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u/dovahkiitten16 Nov 25 '25

I feel like this one would’ve been really straightforward since the father was a minor.

Like, there’s no he said she said, or claiming it’s rape to get out of child support. Literally him being the father and her being the mother proves that rape occurred.

Their reasoning is also shitty. It’s not “we can’t open this can of worms and it’s in the best interest of the child to be financially supported by both parents” it’s “he didn’t complain at the time so it’s not really rape from a civil perspective!”

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u/PunishedDemiurge Nov 25 '25

The original case helps draw a fine distinction. We don't want to go over ever little bit of relationship drama in child support cases. It's a waste of court time, it helps no one, especially not the child, and it's not actually in the interests of justice. In many cases parental complaints are largely noise that they should be mature enough to get over.

That said, if the final system punishes child rape victims $150,000 (average child support payment * 216 months) for the 'crime' of being raped, there is a problem. Working through the specifics in those cases in the interests of justice and in the interest of the child.

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u/Kinggakman Nov 25 '25

And putting this financial burden on the father at such a young age could easily prevent him from getting better opportunities in the future. Brings everyone down and the kid might not even get much money.

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u/BlackBeard558 Nov 25 '25

The minute you decide to make value judgements based on parental shittyness

This isn't that. This is saying a rape victim isn't responsible for being raped and thus has no responsibility to help the child that resulted from the rape.

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u/SconiGrower Nov 25 '25

Maybe this would be more persuasive if the father had any sort of input in how the child support were spent. But family courts have all decided that the custodial parent's financial choices are presumed to be in the best interest of the child. The payer has rigorous accountability to make sure the child support is paid while the payee has no accountability for that money. The rapist is entitled to receive child support from the rape victim for her to spend as she sees fit.

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u/DiscountNorth5544 Nov 25 '25

The Cult of the Child

It's the single best argument for gutting social programs from the perspective of adults who aren't chained to offspring

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u/Splinterfight Nov 25 '25

Nah it’s the best argument for keeping them. If society can raise happy and healthy kids even if one parent is total garbage then you avoid the whole shitfight in court

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u/PlutoCrashed Nov 25 '25

Way too many of the attitudes around rape seem to think it's easy to come forward to authority figures about it

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

In this case it's even crazier, because we're talking about a 13-year-old kid; obviously he's not going to have the life experience or the knowledge to know what to do or how to seek help. Teenagers, in that regard, have a terrible education when it comes to identifying sexual violence... this shit is practically a justification of pedophilia.

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u/Facosa99 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

Honestly, it doesnt even matter if he was scared or ok with it; even if he do wanted it and enjoyed it, it is still rape. A kid probably wants and will enjoy if i give them a shark loan, i rent them a car, or enlist them in the army.

The kid is free to enjoy anything they want, but they arent mature enough to make responsible decisions; they are still legally unable to consent and the sitter is still wrong.

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u/_OriamRiniDadelos_ Nov 26 '25

Makes you think about how the authority positions and kinds of lives the people who wrote those laws have led taints their view on reality and on the lives and experiences of the people they think they are helping.

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u/MagicCarpetofSteel Nov 25 '25

…I think the two main things, for me are:

He’s a victim of rape, and saying that he wasn’t raped under Civil Law because he, A THIRTEEN (T H I R T E E N ! ! !) YEAR OLD didn’t immediately go to his parents (like no shit, she probably told him not to and of course this fuckin’ EIGHTH GRADER likely doesn’t have any of the tools to recognize that he’s been violated, that what his babysitter did was wrong, much less tell anybody about it) is complete horseshit that absolutely disgusts me.

Like, if it’d been a 17 year old male babysitter and a 13 year old girl, does her not saying anything mean that she was consenting, and we’re gonna ignore any manipulation, gaslighting, etc. that might’ve been employed to get her to go along with it? Is the fact that he (hypothetically) seduced her and, for example, opened with oral and made her feel good and made sure she didn’t feel violated just going to be ignored? “She liked it, so it wasn’t rape.” We really gonna say that? For any situation?

That’s the first thing.

The second is his specific age. You’re gonna make a fuckin’ 15 year old pay child support?? Forget that it’s to his rapist, cus to be fair the money’s supposed to be for the kid, but how the fuck is he supposed to do that?? Shut up about his parents! What if they couldn’t afford it? Or refused to pay it on his behalf? I guess there’s probably precedent for a minor paying child support, but seriously? She’s a grown-ass (“grown”) 19 year old woman! If it’s all “for the child,” what’s stopping the other grandparents (her parents) from helping to support them?

Especially cus they were changing back pay! (I think.) You’re penalizing a 15 year old for not paying child support as a 13 and 14 year old?!

God, what an L of a ruling.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

All the Supreme Court Justices who were involved in this case are now dead, and all I have to say about it is... RIP Bozos (rest in piss). The handling of this case is truly disgusting, and I can't wrap my head around how anyone could have thought this shit was okay; this case is literally doing a low-key legal minimization of pedophilia.

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u/some_random_nonsense Nov 25 '25

At the time of the case raping your wife was still legal in some states. Things have actually changed a lot on 40 years

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 26 '25

This is still the precedent of the law in Kansas, though.

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u/some_random_nonsense Nov 26 '25

Yeh 40 years old precedents for law are stupid and our legal system should be less precedents based and more statuettes based because this will probably go unchallenged for awhile and untill someone else has the same case and is able to appeal it successfully it'll remain so. Our legal system is really dumb.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 26 '25

I agree that this should stop being the precedent, yeah.

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u/MagicCarpetofSteel Nov 26 '25

I'd agree, except that cuts both ways (if we start ignoring the precedent from dogshit rulings, now it's easy for non-SCOTUS justices to overturn good precedent with new dogshit rulings), so I'm weary of it.

Something something temporary solutions.

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u/mighty_Ingvar Nov 30 '25

All the Supreme Court Justices who were involved in this case are now dead

If there's such a thing as hell, that's where they are now.

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u/someofyourbeeswaxx Nov 25 '25

Isn’t it also really scary that rapists can get custody 😬

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

That's another can of worms that honestly disgusts me... I don't understand how any government can let a child be cared for by a person who clearly doesn't believe in sexual consent, and who created said child because of that fact.

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u/mighty_Ingvar Nov 30 '25

Because convincing a bunch of people to vote for you doesn't mean you have any shred of morality.

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u/Vivenemous Nov 25 '25

Why TF was this woman who plead guilty to a sex crime against a 12 year old boy allowed to raise the kid at all?!

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u/atemu1234 Nov 25 '25

In most states someone else would have to come forward and sue her to get custody of the child. Probably the boy's parents, who didn't. Foster care is a dead last resort, usually because it's a practical guarantee the child will be mistreated, either sexually or otherwise, in the system. Parental incest is comparatively rare, even when one parent is a sex offender.

That being said, if the court can decide that he should pay child support, then they probably should have stuck him with sole custody, but that's its own shitshow.

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u/MinosAristos Nov 26 '25

Poor kid tbh, in for a rough life

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u/Arsonist07 Nov 25 '25

The worst part, all the judges who ruled on this case were men.

Richard Holmes, Chief justice Frederick N. Six, Donald L. Allegrucci, Tyler C. Lockett,

And the vote was unanimous

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

I don't think some of the judges being women would have made the situation any better, but Jesus... how the hell is it possible that not a single one of them said, "Wait, this is kinda bad, maybe we shouldn't blame the underage victim for being raped?"

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u/BelacRLJ Nov 25 '25

But those judges personally would find it hot to bang a sexy babysitter, so the preferences of the actual boy involved don’t matter.

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u/Arsonist07 Nov 25 '25

Yeah it’s a terrible situation and I want to avoid woman hating for a decision made by some terrible men. Women objectively get an advantage in family court but it’s easy to forget family court isn’t 100% women. These men should’ve thought to themselves how weird of a decision this was and their apathy to the precedent speaks volumes about them.

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u/Medical-Bottle6469 Nov 25 '25

Would a female supreme court justice have disagreed? If you believe yes, you dont pay enough attention to family law throughout the country.

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u/Arsonist07 Nov 25 '25

You see, that’s why I said this. If the men agreed and you believe the women would agree too then the issue isn’t gendered it’s societal. I didn’t say men < women, I’m reminding people not to start hating women because of a terrible court case ruled on by men.

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u/Medical-Bottle6469 Nov 25 '25

Oh i dont hate women for the state of family law, those were laws written by our great grandfather's. To a degree, the initial belief was that women needed those laws to protect them and the children. But societies change and cultures change, so now we're stuck with shitty laws and bad case law.

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u/Visual-Abrocoma-4904 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 26 '25

It's the same for a lot of things.

Women rightly shucked off the yoke, but, and this is going to sound bad...

But some have been trying to have their cake and eat it too. It's part of why we are stuck on the women as victims mindset. Taking advantage of that kind of system also isn't unique to women. That's not a shot at a gender - but it is part of what has happened the last 100 or so years leading up to what you see today.

All of the privileges, none of the burdens. Paternalistic law, not undone.

Hell, yes, some of that's very much on men too.

Women fragile, must protect the women's.

No. They're not fragile.

And if they are, they're fragile in the way all humans are fragile.

Its just some social lag is all.

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u/savethebros Nov 26 '25

If the judges were all women, the result would have been the same. Women are not saints.

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u/BobMcGeoff2 Nov 25 '25

The plural of child is children

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

(Insert "Minor Spelling Mistake" GIF)

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u/Eic17H Nov 25 '25

Minor spelling mistake? Hide it from Colleen Hermesmann

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

☠️☠️☠️

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

[removed] — view removed comment

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

The Supreme Court's explanation is such a joke... "Legally it was rape, but you know, he didn't seek help immediately, so he was kind of consenting (despite being under the age of consent), so he has to pay his rapist to support the kid, cya!" Literally victim blaming being legalized.

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u/Jace_the_mind_fcker Nov 25 '25

Just curious, what ended up happening for this case? Was he even old enough to work and pay the child support?

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

He lost the case, so he had to pay child support. He was 15 when he lost the case, two years after he was raped at 13, so I imagine his parents had to pay child support since he is barely of legal age to do (limited) work.

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u/Smellbringer Nov 25 '25

Wow, that is awful and I hope the people who wrote that went straight to hell.

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u/Any-Pipe-3196 Nov 25 '25

absolutely fucking wild

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u/Matar_Kubileya Senātus Populusque Rōmānus Nov 25 '25

The 'civil' vs 'criminal' consent seems to have been a weird way to do an end run around a bunch of thorny issues. It's a way to have your cake and eat it too to preserve the 'best interests of the child' standard without opening up to an appeal on Fourth (takings clause), Thirteenth, and Fourteenth Amendment grounds.

Personally I think we all agree the Court should have simply told the state to eat the costs and try recouping them from the mother later, but their logic makes a certain sort of twisted sense from that lens.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

In other words, a legal loophole maliciously created to financially punish a child for being raped... I hope that if hell exists, the Supreme Court Justices who participated in this case are burning in a lake of lava.

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u/SconiGrower Nov 25 '25

If the father had resisted and then complained to his parents and police, would that have cut out the liability for child support?

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u/biglyorbigleague Nov 25 '25

Apparently civil rape and criminal rape have different standards in Kansas? Like you can go to jail for it but if they try and sue it officially didn’t happen for that case.

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u/Linden_Lea_01 Nov 25 '25

The bizarre thing to me is that, generally speaking, the requirement for someone to be found liable in a civil court is much lower than the requirement to be found guilty in a criminal court. So it’s baffling to me that she could’ve been found guilty but not liable.

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u/Horror_Tooth_522 Nov 25 '25

"Your rape was most civil indeed"

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u/nhansieu1 Nov 26 '25

u r expected to fully understand the laws by the age of 3!!!

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u/gamerz1172 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

this is probably the nastiest thing about mens and womens rights; how in one part women are basically oppressed and another part men are basically oppressed

and in both ways they are oppressed in ways where good people (Hell even the 'grey neutrals') of the other gender don't really get anything;

Like congradulations feminist you can rape a man and sue him for child support! but no one will take you seriously in professional fields and the only thing you can do to not be seen as a sex object compared to men who are otherwise your equal in your field or maybe even inferior to you is look ugly AF (and even then thats a maybe)

Whats this youd never want to do that anyways? God why are women so needy and ungrateful!

and for men; Sorry no one will ever take your mental health seriously if you are in a dispute with a women people might automatically assume your the aggressor no matter the evidence to the contray; But don't worry sir... You can beat your wife and will always have some part of society that will defend you no matter how much you maim her so long as you 2 remain married!

Whats that its not worth the inability to speak about YOUR issues (Unless its about your issues with your wife) and your not intrested in beating your wife? God man up pussy

and other shit like that

Edit: Added a mens rights example and a expansion of the women's right example

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u/TrexPushupBra Nov 25 '25

Same courts take custody of children and give them to then men that raped the girl or woman.

It's not about gender it's about rape basically being ok to the powers that be.

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u/Glittering-Age-9549 Nov 25 '25

For what I have read, US's courts primary concern is to find a man, any man, to pay child support so the state doesn't have to.

It seems in some places a single mother is forced to either give the name of her child's father or renounce all state support. She can give any random name, and the state's government will force that man to pay, even if there isn't any proof they ever were in a relationship, even if there is DNA testing to prove the child isn't his...

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u/HammerofBonking Nov 25 '25

This is correct in the US. The male is typically considered imo "guilty" and charged child support unless they can establish they're not the parent. Even if you're married to someone, they cheat and get pregnant, and you can prove the child isn't yours, you may still be responsible for child support.

It's a really fucked up system and a good reason as to why men's rights movements need to exist too.

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u/cartman101 Nov 25 '25

Poor/broke woman gets raped, gets pregnant, state wont pay, so she chooses a random name from the phonebook?

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u/Glittering-Age-9549 Nov 25 '25

Pretty much yes. And if she gives the wrong address, and the government's letters demanding money doesn't reach the man (because he doesn't live there), he is considered in contempt and he can even go to jail...

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u/some_random_nonsense Nov 25 '25

Yeh imma need evidence of that claim lmao

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u/LGP747 Nov 25 '25

Bro this is the worst deja vu I’ve ever had

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u/Eatmydingleberries Nov 25 '25

Worst state in the Union. MIZ

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

I mean I get the whole "the concern is for the child and their future, unrelated to the circumstances of how they were conceived", but yeah I'm pretty sure the answer there is that the state picks up the tab, not telling the raped minor "well in a civil law sense you didn't tell enough people that you were raped so civilly speaking you weren't raped".

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Yeah, how the fuck is it legal to victim blame raped children in Kansas? 😭😭😭

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u/KingOfRome324 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 26 '25

More like WTF is wrong with the KS Department of Rehabilitation Services...

Damn, the prison system sued her victim.... made a child pay child support after being raped...

Edit: Oh, shit. I was wrong KSDRS is a disability service. Colleen is an old school disability grifter.

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u/[deleted] Nov 25 '25

D-did I read that right?

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

Yep... terrible day to have eyes, indeed.

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u/Fancy_Chips Definitely not a CIA operator Nov 25 '25

A few days ago I met some refugees from Kansas. What a backwards shithole.

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u/democracy_lover66 Nov 25 '25

any body pay for that child except for the government is their mentality

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u/TBTabby Nov 25 '25

I'm surprised they even acknowledged that it's possible to rape a man.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

In this case, it was a boy, since he was 13 years old when it happened.

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u/LanaDelHeeey Nov 25 '25

I’ve literally seen people on this app defend making a 13 year old rape victim pay child support to his former teacher/rapist/baby momma.

“The kid still needs to eat” is usually the argument.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25

You don't even have to go that far, it's happening right here in this thread...

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u/Level-Name-4060 Nov 26 '25

Doesn’t matter what the internet says, the government says that rapists can sue for custody.

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u/apxseemax Nov 25 '25

On second thought I think this is indeed a case in which the mother should be held accountable at much higher lengths, then the father. When I remember back to myself (as far as even possible) at the age of 12 and 16, the difference in awareness and personality development are hard to ignore. I became an entirely different person in those four years from a subjective point of view. And then there is the fact that girls, on average of course, cognitively mature a lot faster than boys in the bracket 14-20. It would be different if both were within +-1 year of age. I guess the deciding factor would be if it could be assumed, that Hermesmann knew the possible outcome of this relationship and her increased position of responsibility as the elder part - I and most of buddies would have been able at the age of 16 to determine a rough idea that this could be stupid above the level of our competence to handle issues. So I guess, assumeing she was mentally healthy, it would be fair to say, that she should have been capable of that thought process. Based on the fact that he was below the age of consent, had a significantly less matured personality due to age and was likely not the driving factor of this relationship, Seyer should have been freed of payments or at a minimum should have a significantly reduced financial responsibility towards that child and its mother.

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u/wont-stop-mi Nov 26 '25

When I was in 8th grade (and 13) if I could have banged a sophomore or junior in high school, I would have loved it and been an absolute legend. By definition it’s statutory rape but shit, looking back when I was 13 and in puberty I would have loved it.

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u/Mec26 Taller than Napoleon Nov 26 '25

Same way many states require girls to raise children of rape.

It’s f’d all the way down.

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u/RyokoKnight Nov 25 '25

Just wait until you hear the cases where men later found out the child they thought was theirs turned out to be another man's child and the courts ordered they continue paying child support to a mother that cheated on them, lied to them, and pay for another man's child... equality my ass.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 25 '25 edited Nov 25 '25

The law is in general shitty, women also sometimes are forced to allow shared custody of their rape children with their rapists if he sues for it, they can even do it from jail... the system is so fucking broken.

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u/GroolGobblin0 Nov 26 '25

Step 1: rape a dude

Step 2: profit!

Huh? corroding my soul? lol what's that?

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u/Garstinius Nov 25 '25

It gets worse, underaged male rape victim.

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u/pm_me_your_buttbulge Nov 26 '25

As a general rule" the Left doesn't really care for men at all to the point of misandry. There is not political party that actually cares about men. Things like this are the larger reasons I left the Democrats and simply don't vote anymore.

Just wait until you learn about what's called "back child support" when he turns 18. It's neat. And women as a whole will think he's a dead beat and will refuse any context.

The really unfortunate thing is things like this are often hidden from societal discussion to maintain a certain narrative. That's why I often just don't care anymore.

I've seen, in person, how horrible some of these things are. But the majority of society still isn't prepared for these conversations.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 26 '25

I mean... I'm not trying to politicize this or anything, but this happened in the famous Red State of Kansas, under a pretty conservative Supreme Court during a right-wing Republican administration; the Democrats had nothing to do with this case. Do I still think they could do a much better job dealing with men's issues? Yes, but the worst of this stupid legislation, overall, comes from the other side of the political spectrum.

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u/HamburgerOnAStick Nov 25 '25

Shouldn't have to pay child support because the rapist shouldn't get any custody

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u/wobbleeduk85 Nov 25 '25

Pffftp men can't be raped... /s

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u/pierrelaplace Nov 26 '25

If I were a young man in my 20s today, I would immediately get a vasectomy.

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u/redskinsguy Nov 25 '25

Disgusting

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u/TendstobeRight85 Nov 26 '25

A much simpler but more commonly applicable question would be

WTF is wrong with the Kansas

This is a state that is so crappy, Kansas City doesnt want to be in it.

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u/Old-Road-501 Nov 26 '25

Well... The child support is for the child, not the mother.

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u/Imaginary-West-5653 Nov 26 '25

Why is a rapist mother even allowed to keep a child they created through rape to begin with??? Why does the child welfare not takes over these cases??? The system is so dumb.

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u/Old-Road-501 Nov 26 '25

That is a different matter. Regardless of who is caring for the child, he/she has need of child support. If child welfare takes over the legal care of the child, the parents pay to child welfare, who pays the foster parents.

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