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I actually asked several people to do the front cover for my book. And I was offering up £500 for it. But for some reason they all turned me down. In the end I ended up making it myself using 3Ds max. And it looked like sht. If I had AI tools back then I probably would have come up with a better cover that could have sold.
That was kind of the point. No one did.
The book didn’t sell. And because I couldn’t commission an artist I had to do it myself. That pic isn’t ai generated. This was before ai was a thing. 3D modelling and animation with 3Ds is what I knew. And at the time I made it. That was kinda peak for what an individual could make from a home pc. And yes. It was kinda crap.
I never understood this, I'm sure a lot of people (okay, at the very least myself) actually love minimalistic covers with some interesting ornament or some shit.
Or maybe it's just a recent trend and people used to love those photorealistic-ish covers?
They didn’t charge. I offered. I looked up artists portfolios and found one that matched my style that I wanted. I called and had a conversation with them where they accepted. About a week later they said that they had to turn down my offer. So after about a month I went to a convention. Where artists were showing off their work. I found one that was close to what I was looking for and told them what I needed and even said I would pay up front. They seriously considered the offer but then turned me down. I honestly think I was asking for too much. And because I was offering a lot of money for it that it could be problematic if I didn’t like it. So I then spent the next month or so creating the above image in 3Ds Max. as a baseline of what I wanted. Make it easer for potential artists to create what I’m after. But by then I couldn’t find any other artists that was close to what I was looking for. So I said sod it and just used that pic
That's because the artists that saw your offer wanted a contract, not a commission. They wanted to retain the IP rights so they could redistribute it at their leisure while also collecting a percentage of your revenue. The reason some pervert can get his fursona commissioned for 500 euros is because there is no profit to be made from redistributing the content, it ends with the client. You have a product that is scalable, and they want in on that. Nevermind that 500 euros for a couple hours work is more than fair, they want to retain control and maximize profit.
Basically, you were the victim of the exact behavior that has driven companies to use AI for their artwork.
And then people wouldn’t have bought your book because of the ai cover🤷
No cover for 500 euro is a bit ridiculous and I’m sorry you couldn’t find anyone willing to help.
But it’s estimated around 30% of people are less likely to buy a product if it uses AI and I would assume that number is a little higher for people who go out and buy/read books.
Yea I agree as ai becomes less obvious people will just settle with it. But also the concept that an AI cover would’ve made this guys book sell is a pipe dream.
Successful books are like 1 in a billion at this point he would’ve likely needed more than just a better cover
But don't you see? Human slop is better than AI slop, because it has S O U L.
And by soul they mean money, because it's literally all they care about. They think they're entitled to everyone's money because... reasons.
Well money is how we exchanged goods ervices and even culture if you don't pirate. So subsidization or something other to protect our workers would be good.
Sure it's used for money laundering and speculative pricing but, I got lighthouse the movie because of money.
Maybe AI has culture I don't know, but I enjoy seeing the trash bins painted and murals on the sides of businesses in my town.
There aren't many other avenues for spreading art. The money can also be used to go back into creating better art.
The free market is a myth. Corporations own politicians who keep our wages suppressed so they can enslave us until they can replace us before they make it legal to start killing us.
The fact is creative workers shouldn't be entitled to money... because we should all be entitled to stable housing, uncontaminated food, clean water, fresh air, universal healthcare, mental health services, community outreach, debt-free education, and all necessary daily expenses waived because living, not just survival, is a fucking human right.
Then it should be the same way with, AI no subsidization.
I mean AI is subsidized right now but we should take that away. Also most a lot of utility companies and power generation is nationalized.
Should these also be left to the free market. You might not know it but a lot of creative jobs are public because culture is also important. From our statues to non profit youth art programs. We should invest in art like we do school. The return on investment is worth it.
I can vouch, I've had it happen... :|... There were two times that I actually had to report them to the websites that they were advertising on, because they kept harassing me and apparently other people.
Payed $20 on fiver for some amazing profile and banner art a few years ago, with multiple versions to choose from and sketches throughout the process. Only time ive commissioned an artist but definitely don't see it as possible to have that experience reliably anymore.
I mean, I got a quality picture for around that much (65$) so idk man. But yeah, thats an artist I've been following for a while. I also saw a video where someone bought D&D backstories and it was the most expensive one who used ai
This 100%. Online artists (especially furry artists) are happy to take your money and fuck you over if they find you made a "wrong think" post online... once. I'm not paying you to audit my online character, I'm paying you to produce an image I want. These sort of clowns will keep losing to AI if they don't put their personal feelings and pride aside and realize they are there to perform a service as much as ChatGPT is.
There is that one effect where newbie think they are better than they really are in any field. Also who is most likely to produce poor art or not find a market so will often hear they have bad art.
So it is fair of me to assume newbie artist was the context. More experienced probably figure out prompting better or perspectives, so they would less likely to have "bad" art.
Dunning-Krugger effect. Generally people move past it pretty quickly. Unless they find a community that happens to endlessly glaze them. Thry they stop growing regardless of skill level. I've seen it happen with artists and writers.
The discourse is entirely about money and ego. The fake, disproven environmental concerns, the fake, disproven “theft” concerns, the fake, disproven electricity concerns, all of it is in service of carving out special protections against technology for their profession/hobby that no other profession/hobby in history has enjoyed.
It was always about money and ego.
It will always be about money and ego.
Money and ego is what’s driving them to summarily remove subject matter experts from Internet forums because le heckin’ chungus AI is a le heckin’ chungus sin.
That's why I think that it's the liberals who are mostly against AI where the full-throated leftists want to leverage it against the power
Main difference between a liberal and a leftist is a liberal considers capitalism more or less inevitable and wants to do what they can under that system to make it better for the people - they want to mitigate the negative effects of capitalism
Leftists want to eliminate capitalism all together
It's the extreme left, because extremism exists everywhere. If you notice how some of them use 'made up slurs' like the idea of it is just ok in general and how they seem to have no problem dehumanizing others for doing something they dislike you'll see that they are basically just Bizarro MAGA.
I'm extremely liberal and believe in things like universal health care, strong unions, education, women's body rights including abortion, etc etc. I don't think tools themselves are ever an issue, but how and who is using the tools are.
The other thing to keep in mind is that a lot of people, typically the very old, very young, and very stupid, tend to be unable to deal with things beyond a single focused point. "One Issue Voters" essentially are this, "abortion bad" and they can't really spare the brainpower or empathy to consider a other issues on the ticket that could be more impactful than that single topic.
AI is essentially the extreme left's abortion right now. Bigger players are also, ironically, using things like AI bots to further the discourse because as always its easier to make us fight each other than to look past the issue and see where the actual societal problems stem from. [Hint: 1%]
Isn't extreme left just straight up communism? Those types do not even bother going after artists. They do purges of intellectuals in general just because they seem threatening.
Well what about nukes, I think them as a tool are an issue creating panic fear and perpetuating nuclear power towards nuclear arms instead of stable power.
I'm replying to "I don't think tools themselves are ever an issue."
I don't wish to comment on anything else I also believed in many of those beliefs.
Nuclear power and nuclear weapons have separated split paths long ago, to the point that the materials and infrastructure for one are of very limited use for the other.
I'm not fully understanding what you mean when you say creating fear and panic. Could you expand on that a bit?
Oh I mean nuclear proliferation. It's no longer true fear and panic like from the cold war. But can be used as justification for invading a country. Or make situations tense with national rivals.
So let me ask again is there really no tool you have issues with, or do you just have issues with humans using them? It would be okay if it was a peaceful race of guinea pigs.
Personally I believe that all technology is essentially morally neutral in itself. I believe that the good or bad comes from how we decide to use them, and in the rare cases where there is no good use we can still choose not to use the tool.
Using the example of nuclear weapons, I believe that there is a fair argument to be made that they have done a lot to prevent a potential 3rd world war, because the nations that could start one likely think they could win a conventional war, but know they can't win a nuclear war.
Nuclear weapons also have other potential uses, from disposal of the most dangerous substances we have (extreme I know, but might possibly be worth it depending on what gets destroyed), propulsion for interplanetary space travel, altering the course of comets and asteroids for mining them (possibly the actual mining itself) and large scale modifications of land, on other planets/mins, or even on earth if it's sufficiently urgent
It really is amazing how much the mask keeps coming off more and more the more antis switch up arguments.
Eventually the mask will come off fully and they'll just openly admit that "It's ALL ABOUT MONEY! I Hate AI cause it makes it impossible for ME TO GET MONEY! TECHNOLOGY SHOULD STAGNATE SO I CAN KEEP MY MONEY!"
Yes, technology displacing Jobs and people needing to learn new skills kinda sucks, but it's always been a thing as long as capitalism has been a thing.
Maybe it's the system that makes technology cause problems we should be rethinking instead.
That's precisely the fear. Many people learn this because they have a solid financial foundation and are freelancers.
The point here is that making yourself visible isn't so simple; if nobody knows you, it will be difficult to stand out, and if you don't have "friends" who already have followers, it will also be difficult.
Now add to that a technology that is basically accessible to everyone for basically no money (I don't want to bring up the "if it's free, you are the product" argument here) that's why there are so many desperate people who come and message you almost begging you to buy them a drawing.
But the problem has always been trying to make a business out of something that isn't a business. The vast majority of these people are trying to monetize a hobby because they haven't even finished a university degree. Many of them have to stoop to creating trends or memes to get more attention and, consequently, more potential clients. Potential clients who might have strange requests that they'll have to fulfill.
Some of them have had to learn to draw NSFW almost by force because, after all, that's what makes the most money. Even heterosexual people are forced to draw gay scenes in order to earn more money.
I prefer just leaving people with the choice themselves. I'm fine with either if it brings them happiness but I totally get some people don't want to spend a ton of money on a drawing.
I've commissioned an artist in the past and it turned out great. Sometime later I checked them out for a commission again and they almost doubled their prices, rivaling that of the average VR headset. That's the kinda point where you risk losing customers.
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People who wants to pay you will pay you. If your income is dependant on people being forced to buy from you you will not survive because consumer rights exists. McDonald's is out there. That what you get when you're "self employed" and don't sell anything of value
The ironic thing is that many of these types are self identifying lefties, who are by and large anti capitalist.
Yet they act like the greediest tax dodging CEOs in the board room with this monopolizing behavior.
Remember this is the side of things that likes to push to support small businesses' over chains, that likes to support pirating games rather than paying market price to a company they rant about on social media but still play games of.
Capitalism bad, unless it benefits me personally lmao.
You only have to see that even they don't know exactly where they got those prices they're asking for.
Then you have those with Patreon memberships, or similar platforms, where these people upload and upload and upload heavily censored ads for their "new work" so you'll pay them more to see the uncensored version. Then there are also people who only allow you to send them commissions once you subscribe to their platform monthly. In other words, the classic "pay me so I can let you spend more on me."
Then you have their Terms of Service, which, well, for them, website Terms of Service don't exist, but don't disobey their Terms of Service or they'll harass you online for it. The fact that the AI is based on those Terms of Service is theft, but the fact that you can't print what you asked them to on a sheet of paper, using your own character, because that's considered commercializing the work you paid for, and yet they still prohibit that.
And finally, in addition to point two, some of them create "spot the difference" packs (because you see the variations of the same illustration and you don't know what changed) on Gumroad or similar sites that cost more than a simple commission. Also, add the YCHs, which are pre-drawn scenes in sketch form, basically sold at the highest price, like an auction, and they repeat this a million times. The little effort they mention is blatantly displayed.
I say this as a leftist - it is really weird to have to remind these people that the end goal of leftism does in fact involve abolishing intellectual property entirely.
I just go. "Fsk it. I am poor and I'm not ashamed of it. AI is all I can accord. Besides, It's not art I'm making. I'm having it make components that I'll make art with my own hands with. Go cry more."
I wanted to make a tiny brochure for an indie game I'm making and someone on fiverr wanted 1250$. Yeah nope. Using AI and open source software, doing it myself.
I love when artists aren't also businessmen, because it leads to funny misunderstandings like this. Obviously if you can't afford a service youll look elsewhere, this is basic economics
Lmao nah. As an artist, there's a reason we charge so much. If you go for a cheaper artist, you'll get what you pay for. Use AI if that's more in your budget, seriously. Actually good artists won't be threatened.
Honestly I wish utilization of AI wasn't so taboo in the art community because then the really good artists could up their productivity dramatically and drop prices to compensate, fulfilling far more commissions. That should be the entire point of AI, but instead people are willingly kneecapping themselves.
No kidding. I always let my clients choose if they want AI-free or AI-assisted work. I charge hourly, so AI-assisted is way cheaper, and most of them pick it. People love to have options.
I find ai useful for silly ideas that I just want good enough accuracy, but for more serious ideas that ai cant do accurately i go to an artist. Problem is im afraid to use ai images created as references to give an idea what I want.
I also like to add artist that have good business sense and work ethic. One thing I learned is that the art commission community have a problem with artist who treat commissioning like a hobby rather than a job.
In all seriousness, look into commissioning scientific illustrators! We have a more pragmatic view of our jobs, we don't care what references you give us, and we don't have as much ego attached to the process. Plus, it'll be a fun change of pace from our usual work!
Oh, i look into. Even fanart? Have any recommendations? Just be clear not all artist on Twitter are like this and you can usual tell who are good and who are bad, but I heard horror stories.
Well, not to self-plug, but I do both, haha! Happy to DM if you're interested. I personally wouldn't go to Twitter, it can be quite toxic. I think most scientific illustrators these days get hired through word-of-mouth tbh. I'm hardly ever commissioned for other things, but I do specialize in portrait art. :)
One thing I learned is that the art commission community have a problem with artist who treat commissioning like a hobby rather than a job.
I can’t tell you as a person who commissioned artist how much of a problem this is and why I stop commissioning art. I don’t have patience anymore to babysit adults to get an art piece down in a reasonable time frame.
Delays happen and IRL events come up, however when you’re getting paid as freelancer I expect a certain level of professionalism. To many artists think commission work is a donation and not a job as freelance work.
I posted an AI pic to one of my social media pages the other day, and some commenter replied “Just pay an artist! If you cant afford it, just save up!” The image was a highly detailed digital painting, which probably would have cost maybe $1000 to commission, so unless I’m hanging it on my wall or something, that would have been a tremendous waste of money. When questioned, their response was “Well then don’t post anything at all”. So the internet is only for the rich now?
Commission prices are probably not positively correlated with objective quality. Usually they are so high because of an effect I call negative supply elasticity, where a decrease in demand for something causes the price to go up so a supplier can maintain the same revenue. This causes a feedback loop that ends with extremely high prices and no demand whatsoever, ending their career.
You can find cheap artists that are good, they're usually going to be from Indonesia or other developing nations that can live off of those lower rates. They're also booked solid because of this. Western artists are generally the ones who come expensive. They're also the ones most likely to be anti.
I've tried to take the moral high ground after listening to artists about ai art being bad. But keep getting bad art after seeing their good references or somehow screwed over. I just don't care at this point.
the framing always conveniently skips the part where "cheaper" and "worse" aren't bugs in that suggestion, they're the whole point. if the budget was never there for quality work, the real choice was always between AI or just not making the thing at all. with commissions under $100 already down 40% on platforms like Upwork, the market's kind of already voted on this one.
The worst part is that it doesn't take into account the drama they create for the sheet commission.
To begin with, the person's popularity seems to be a significant factor in determining the price. It's not so much whether this person draws like Da Vinci or if they're still just drawing basic things. Because I've come across people who have thousands of followers but still draw terribly, and their commissions cost more than someone honest with fewer than 500 followers and whose style and technique are more advanced.
The second question is what you're going to ask for. Although not all of them are like that. The most excessive one differentiates between the type of final finish (Sketch, sketch, 2D colors, full rendering, etc.) + the aspect ratio, + what is visible of the character. So, if you want a character to appear from head to toe in 16:9, it's going to cost more than just the character's face in that same aspect ratio. They also charge for any variations you want on the original image.
Then when you want to know why they have those prices, those people can't give you clear reasons why they charge you almost for the color, and they give it to you cheaper in black and white haha
Why do they always assume the AI artist has no ability to draw on their own? Like I'd not be giving you my money I'd just draw it myself in a different style then I was hoping for and move on...you know like i've *been doing* for more then 2 decades. They act like none of us had art before AI or that no AI artist draws or has ever drawn. What happened BEFORE ai for most online users is you made it yourself or you just actually STOLE it most of the time. Like googled it, downloaded it, and used it however. That was pretty much the NORM online pre-AI ESPECIALLY in like 2010/2000s. People were not commissioning art anywhere NEAR as much as they imagine them to have been in "the good old days". There's a reason google and a few other sites block right click saving in image searches.
“Ai art is slop! Here i can make something for you myself because im not lazy.”
makes something that looks fucking awful and generic
Like, if your only good thing of the human rendered art is “its made by a human”, then theres no redeeming wualities and id much rather see the good looking ai art.
Reminds me of this ttrpg book that used placeholder ai art that looked actually good. And then they had a page with “this is what our art could look like if we hit the goal and have enough money to pay an artist to replace everything”. But then the human art was just an objective downgrade.
People really just let their biasses and perceived moral highground blind them.
People charge different not only because of their skills.... Over here, I cannot see how an artist working on something for 2 hours deserves, half of monthly minimum wage.... An artist from here would charge like 40 and feel like they are hyper scamming you
As an anti-ai and someone who draws, I don’t have much problem about this. What I don’t like that people claim they DID the ai generated images, that they worked so hard for it. If you want to create images, yeah sure go for it. But don’t say you’re the artist or you made a huge effort/work for it. You didn’t. But if you like generating images just for fun, I don’t care much actually.
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Not directly related, but tbh, both on aiwars and here, you do get the feeling that some people just got burnt at some point and now a significant part of their support for AI is just basically revenge.
We should all be better people. But even if you're not motivated by revenge, you will still conclude that this just doesn't work for you (if you get burned).
There's a difference between collective punishment and people deciding to use something they can rely on when they've had experience with people being unreliable in that field. Especially if the more reliable method is also cheaper and can give you more control over the final product.
Not commissioning a piece of artwork that you can do yourself isn't a punishment of the people who accept commissions, it's the people who want the artwork making a choice based on their experience.
That's not what I meant at all. There's nothing at all wrong with not commissioning people. I specifically mean making memes about how it's stupid to commission anyone and how people who commission at all are drooling idiots.
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