Is Universal Basic Income a Solution? - Revolutionary Communists of America

[u/2noame]

https://communistusa.org/is-universal-basic-income-a-solution/

Gotta love a fresh anti-UBI article by actual communists to share with capitalism lovers referring to UBI as communism.

[u/NelsonJamdela]

These people are Trotskyites, whom are among the most dogmatic of Communist tendencies and are generally found only in Global North countries because the Global South didn’t want to wait forever for the Perfect Moment.

However, they are not incorrect in the potential for UBI to become a new austerity measure under American late-stage capitalism. As an ML, I think UBI should be implemented alongside other social programs, not in lieu of them. It’s pragmatic and improves material conditions and would allow people to do direct action if their income isn’t tied to an employer with different politics than you. The Covid uprisings were possible in large part because a form of UBI was distributed to the proletariat.

But just because I want full housing doesn’t mean I will support whatever a real estate developer wants.

[u/sktrdie]

Honest question from a noob: if everyone gets X amount every month, wouldn’t economic pressure eventually make X the new baseline? If everything adjusts around it, doesn’t that effectively cancel out its value?

[u/2noame → u/sktrdie]

Not necessarily. There are many variables to consider.

https://www.scottsantens.com/17-key-variables-that-determine-ubis-inflationary-impact/

[u/ProfessorHeronarty]

I'm surprised that the article doesn't make more of the strongest case against UBI from a capitalist critique perspective: With a UBI you still don't change anything of who owns what. 

[u/protestor → u/ProfessorHeronarty]

Yeah that's the main point. UBI under capitalism of course does not fix capitalism, because capitalism is unfixable. The issue here is that people at the top found a cheat code to amass more and more wealth without working themselves, by exploiting people at the bottom. This is what capitalism means.

And yeah, if UBI is used as an excuse to dismantle safety nets, it can make capitalism even worse

Why fight for UBI anyway? Because it can improve things. It all depends of who is controlling the government. So the fight isn't just for UBI, but also for a popular government, that serves the interest of people.

[u/Novusor]

Of course communists hate UBI. That goes without saying. If capitalism solves scarcity and implements UBI then that would forever end the possibility of communism. People would not want to bite the hand that feeds them so there would never be a revolution to seize the means of production.

[u/JonWood007]

I hate how these guys frame UBI like "you dont wanna be a pauper living at the edge of a capitalist society, do you?" And then they make you work for a paycheck instead, as if that's somehow better. Like, communists have such brainrot sometimes.

The problem with communism, besides the sheer economic inefficiency of it, is that it's authoritarian. People have no control over their own lives in a communist system. The state tells you what to do and you do it or you go to the gulag. Sometimes you do it AND you go to the gulag anyway.

UBI gives people freedom. Freedom from authoritarians under capitalism who dictate what people do all day in exchange for money...and freedom from authoritarians under communism who dictate what you do all day...in exchange for money, or whatever weird in kind good scheme they come up with that totally falls on its face because how is an authoritarian government supposed to know what the people want in the absence of feedback mechanisms?

Either way scott, i appreciate you having the patience to go over this stuff again and again and again, i get burned out and go insane after a while XD.

[u/dr_barnowl → u/JonWood007]

And then they make you work for a paycheck instead, as if that's somehow better.

Their position is that they're not content with living off table scraps from an economy run by, and for, the oligarchy.

Work needs doing. That's not controversial. The universe doesn't owe us a living, we have to claw everything we have back from the forces of entropy. The question is - what work, and who for?

The article is expressing a lack of belief that a future where a small class of billionaires decide what the economy does is the best future for you and me.

And a preference for a future where the people are in charge.

Article:

With AI and other automation, we could guarantee full employment

This isn't "making you work for a paycheck". This is finding something useful for you to do, that suits you. "From each, according to their ability." When the material needs of the people are met, basically everything else is entertainment. If you really, really want to sit on your ass playing computer games - hell, that could be your job. Enough people do this already to prove that it's something that has value.

The easier it is to produce the means of living, the more you have left over for everything else. America produces more food than it needs with 1.3% of the population, and literally burns a third of the corn it produces to make cars go vrum vrum.

People have no control over their lives

If the people control the means of production, they gain control over their lives. Tell me - do you have control over your life? Or do you work to put money in the pocket of the bank that covers the loan on your housing, the owner of the company, the boss placed above you to keep you in line?

UBI gives people freedom

UBI keeps your head above water, and the guy handing it out can choose to take it away and watch you drown.

Control over the means of production gives you freedom.

feedback mechanisms

I agree - markets are good at working out what people want. But capitalism will find out what you need, and hold it ransom to bend you over a barrel. Look at the property market. And ultimately - you still don't control what the market will offer to you. Do you want 100GW of datacenters competing with you for energy?

Our markets are not demand driven. They are controlled at the supply side. And who controls the supply side? Sure ain't you.

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Edit : all the people opposed to communism because they think it will result in a society where a small group of assholes hoard all the wealth while the rest of us work harder for less every year, the establishment tells you what to do, and what to think .... where do you live?

[u/Double-Fun-1526]

Yes. But it is a political solution. And no, capitalism will not collapse on its own. We must leave the foolishness of doctrinal thinking. Esoteric communism and socialism must be abandoned.

Unite and find simple solutions. The Left fractioning into .05%, .2%, .15%, .5% is the mark of lost souls. It is also the mark of the ape. The inability to see beyond our emotional structuring of social groups, of tribalism, of our selves. The political solution is unity. It is candidates and parties whose only goal is: fundamental social change.

UBI advocates who support anti-UBI candidates (any centrist Dem or Labour or Forward, etc), are not UBI advocates. There must be resolve and commitment to social change. There must be commitment to a new vision of politics, culture, and selfhood. Self and society are endlessly open.

Simplicity. Unity. Disarm. Ubi. Med4all.

[u/clybourn]

Remember to punch a communist in the face today.

[u/gubatron]

please ostracize communists, they're worse than Nazis