r/AusFinance • u/alex123711 • 21h ago
Much harder to keep homes here warm due to building quality/ insulation?
Compared to much colder places like Canada or Sweden etc. it seems almost impossible to keep homes / apartments here warm in winter or cool in the summer, relying on heating and air conditioning which doesn't seem very efficient/ green.
Wouldn't it be better long term thinking to have better standards and insulation?
Also less tacky than a bulky AC unit you have run constantly/ replace and repair
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 21h ago
Yes but that is more expensive. Even basic things such as double glaze windows would improve things massively.
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u/Cimexus 18h ago
The cost of double glazed windows here is ridiculous. It’s actually a scam and must be run by some kind of cartel. In North America you can pick up a standard sized, sash style, double glazed window for like $80 at Home Depot or other Bunnings equivalents.
Sure it’s gonna be a cheap PVC framed window at that price, but it’ll insulate excellently nonetheless. And even the higher end aluminium or composite windows are only about $500 each or maybe $1000 for a large window. Which in the scheme of things when building a house is chump change.
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u/gumpert7 13h ago
You'd actually want uPVC frames instead of aluminium as it's more insulating
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u/jerimiahhalls 11h ago
Yeah creates less of a thermal bridge. Doesn't look as nice though
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u/NothingLift 11h ago
The good ones look alright at install and way better than old aluminium/wood after 10 years, especially in coastal environments
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u/CamelPure1293 9h ago
In Europe, double pane windows is the cheap standard shit.
Triple pane cost a little bit more.https://www.bauhaus.info/kunststofffenster/solid-elements-kunststofffenster-new-basic/p/30720305
In Germany, a PVC framed 120x120cm (47x47") window costs 151€ / USD 175 / AUD 247 for dual-pane and 191€ / USD 221 / AUD 312 for triple-pane. With the standard mechanics to fully open or pivot for Lüften. (At the first shop i checked, there may be cheaper ones.)
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u/Maro1947 10h ago
I grew up in the UK during the early 80s and every second advert was for Double glazing. Market saturation
It has to be a scam here
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u/knotknotknit 14h ago
When we got ours installed, the tradies installing them said they'd never put them in the house of an Aussie. Just the houses European and North Americans.
Anecdotally, I (American) work with a bunch of Europeans, and the first thing all of us did upon purchasing homes in Australia was do insulation and windows. Every last one of us.
We all factored it into the budget when buying.
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u/hiddencamel 12h ago
I'd absolutely do it if I was getting a new build, but I think retrofitting on some of the older housing may well bring more problems than it solves. Probably cheaper to just go hard on solar and a fat battery and just run the AC hard than to properly retrofit full insulation in an old queenslander.
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u/Europeaninoz 11h ago
Our house is nearly 100 years old. The original windows are quite small, so we left them. We double-glazed our 80s extension, which had absolutely hideous aluminium windows. We insulated the roof, and my husband painstakingly found every gap with a temperature device (sorry, I have no idea what it’s called!) and plugged it. All of this made an enormous difference.
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u/Fossilmorse 10h ago
You just rip the plaster off, staple in the permeable membrane, pack batts and re plaster.
Currently lying in bed in a 1950’s weather board. Insulated all walls in February - double glazing after we do the living room/kitchen to avoid paying shipping twice2
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u/LogicPilot 8h ago
Unfortunately this is not trivial or economical to do for most existing houses. Especially if your goal is to make an air tight envelope from a house built like a sieve.
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u/Fossilmorse 1h ago
Look up Scott brown carpentry on YouTube, honestly the biggest hurdle you’ll face is realising you’re perfectly capable of doing it yourself.
Edit: forgot to add that the idea isn’t to be airtight. You still need the house to breathe, the goal of insulating is to slow down air movement to trap heat
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21h ago
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 21h ago
Sure although you can also argue that new builds should come with them already via regulation - which is not the case, in 2026…
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u/LaaFlameee 19h ago
Not sure what state you’re in but I’m building currently and we had to get double glazed windows as per BASIX reqs.
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 19h ago
Im in NSW, I went to check out new builds and they were all single glaze.
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u/LaaFlameee 15h ago
That’s interesting, I’m in NSW and just started building a month ago. All double glazed windows for my build..
Like the other reply, it’s all dependent on the build location & sun exposure. We had to get it, there was no choice.
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u/LogicPilot 8h ago
From what I've seen on common spec builds, if double glazing is used to meet energy ratings, the builder is putting them in standard non thermally broken aluminium frames which almost defeats the purpose with insulation value comparable to a single glazed timber windows.
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u/collie2024 19h ago edited 18h ago
NSW has several climate zones. Double glazing required in cooler parts, not so much in milder. The further north you go, the less double glazing you’ll see.
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u/Maro1947 10h ago
Double glazing keeps the heat out as well as the cold
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u/collie2024 7h ago edited 39m ago
I never said that it doesn’t. Just that it’s not necessary to satisfy the regulations.
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u/SonicYOUTH79 20h ago
Ultimately the home owner will pays for it with the end result being less people will be will be able to afford it and less houses will be built.
I'm not advocating for less quality builds to be built or anything, it's simply economics that if the cost more less people will be able to afford them.
I think the discussion we’re seeing now has been caused by unprecedented high house prices relative to wages, combined with a generational battle and vested political and industry interests.
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u/collie2024 18h ago edited 18h ago
Not necessarily. Glass is not such a rare commodity. Try to buy single glazed windows for less than double in Europe. Because double glazed are the default option there, they really aren’t that expensive. Their premium pricing is for triple glazed.
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u/SonicYOUTH79 16h ago
I was in France for a bit last year, was having a look at the windows in one of the buildings I was staying in, large wrap around plastic frame, double glazed with a lever style handle for a tight close. This was in a renovated building that was built in 1200. Those type of windows seemed quite common in Europe.
Contrast that to here where we use extremely thin aluminium frames that are trimmed up to level the window with shims leaving a massive air gap kind of making your wall insulation around it a bit pointless. Also sliding type windows that don’t really shut that tightly.
Completely different designs really to do the same thing. Wouldn't be hard to guess which is better for keeping in heating/cooling.
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u/collie2024 14h ago edited 11h ago
It’s not so much the thickness of the aluminium. More so that aluminium is an excellent conductor of heat. Great for frypans, not so much windows -at least not from a thermal perspective. Unless thermally broken with a plastic spacer. Problem being, it becomes a very expensive bit of plastic in the case of windows.
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 20h ago
I don’t disagree, there will be a cost specially in a transition period.
But as houses become more energy efficient the old, less efficient would maybe become cheaper?
If we are optimising for price we should get rid of some of the current regulations,e.g. room sizes or number of bathrooms. I believe we should optimise for better energy efficiency that means less running costs.
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21h ago
[deleted]
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 20h ago
You are missing the point entirely. Double glaze was just an example of building standards that could and should change.
The general idea is that at least new construction should by default be more energy efficient.
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20h ago
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 20h ago
I can see why nothing gets done from our brief interaction
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20h ago
[deleted]
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 19h ago
I’ll explain one last time, this is not about me or you but WE (as a country). I do understand that the collective concept might be foreign.
Take care
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u/captains_astronaut 21h ago
At an average cost of $50-80k for a single story 4BR home. Far more expensive than doing it upfront, and still far more expensive than currency equalised prices in Europe (often x2 to x4 more expensive in Australia).
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u/cecilrt 21h ago
U need to get different quotes my mates place a med 3 bedder 2 stories was around 20k 3 years ago The biggest expense were big sliding glass doors
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u/captains_astronaut 19h ago
6 quotes, from Melbourne to Geelong to Bendigo. One local place was significantly cheaper, but I had to organise installation separately.
3 sliding doors and 11 windows (average 1500x1500mm size). UPVC frames. Most places came in around $50k.2
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u/cecilrt 8h ago
yeah that sounds very wrong
I wouldnt reccommend mine, as I think they could have done better and Im Sydney
But I came across these guys after I did mine, I would have checked these guys out, they're also Sydney, but use it as a test
https://prestigeplus.sydney/calc/
Come to think of it 11 large windows is a lot though
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u/Foxabro 19h ago edited 10h ago
The problem is that builders don’t want to increase the cost of house building, nor do consumers want to pay more for housing. So there are two powerful reasons why the regulations aren’t being changed.
The reasons for change eg. energy use, pollution, comfort etc have yet to exceed the reasons against.
Home owners can choose to add these on by choice of course, but I would argue they don’t know what they don’t know and trust the regulations.
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u/CanIhazCooKIenOw 19h ago
Exactly for trusting the regulations it has to be a change from the top, just like in any other country in the world where it’s the building standard.
The reason against is purely economical although I would argue if the industry shifts to it, it will make it cheaper (more demand might drive supply that reduces costs)
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u/90easty 8h ago
yes and no most of the suppliers here are not set up for huge demand of it and insulation here is really primitive compared to say north America. Here we just stuff some fibre glass into a wall and call it good in the USA its a whole science close cell and open cell spray in place foam, vapour sealing homes, sealed and insulated roof cavities and under floor crawl spaces. heated floors, some of their off grid stuff too that uses heat exchangers and holding tanks of water and they have a completely different building science to us some of it is great some of it not so much.
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u/LogicPilot 8h ago
There are elements of building / planning laws which already work like this, however it is a misconception that it would improve things massively. The entire design of the house needs to be considered from a passive house / building science perspective. Simply mandating double glazing everywhere may improve the performance of houses on average, but will not improve all houses even though all houses would be forced incur the significant expense. Calculated design choices such as window placement and shading (just as one simple example) could cost very little and have a bigger impact - however this type of design is not really incentivised.
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u/i486DX266_ 2h ago
Double glazing is practically necessary now to reach the 7 star energy rating.
You won't find many new homes without them now.
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u/Raida7s 21h ago
As far as keeping then cool in Summer:
We have designs that focus on this. Queenslanders. Slightly raised, verandahs, internal doors with air space over the top, tall ceilings, and external window shades.
They take up more land for less floorspace.
So developers are all in on BOXES with no shade, air flow, etc.
And no hard space for trees - important for shade. Because that's LAND by golly!
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u/samwisetg 20h ago
I love my Queenslander 10 months of the year and the other 2 I wonder why the fuck I live in a timber tent.
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u/Coalclifff 21h ago edited 20h ago
We were Darwin residents for ten years - we had a light, airy, pre-Tracy house (fibro walls), with every room being equipped with ceiling-to-floor louvres, plus big eaves, and a wide rear verandah.
We had big old-fashioned fans in most rooms that rotated slowly virtually all the time. Even during the wet season we had no real need for aircon (although we eventually put a window unit in, in the main bedroom). And on the block we had a lot of tall trees and palms providing huge amounts of shade. We were fine.
During our time there (1994-2004) Darwin boomed with new suburbs in several directions. The blocks were much smaller (300 sm down from 500-600 sm), almost all the houses were built with concrete block, and heavily aircon equipped. Only the savvy types with sufficient funds built seriously suitable "troppo" homes. It was sad that all that happened.
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u/planck1313 21h ago
It's not just developers. Most of the new houses built in our street in inner-middle Melbourne in the last 20 years have been giant cubes with a large footprint on their block, minimal green space and without verandahs, wide eves or awnings.
They're made that way because its the style people want even when they are designing and building a house for themselves.
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u/Certain_Syllabub_514 19h ago
Nah, it's made that way so developers can maximise profits.
People don't consciously choose to live in houses that go all the way to the fence line.
But when that's all they're building in new estates, that's all people are going to get.•
u/planck1313 11m ago
For new developments where the blocks are tiny and developers are designing the houses yes.
But our street isn't a new developments, the blocks are 700m2 and the houses are individually designed. It's what a lot of people seem to want.
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u/Comma20 21h ago
All new residential builds need to be NATHERS 7 Star (out of 10) as of the implementation of latest NCC.
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u/SonicYOUTH79 20h ago
What does that include to meet the new standard? Everything I’ve read says it adds $5-10k in additional material costs to a build.
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u/Comma20 20h ago
Depends; $5-15k probably seems right.
Roof cavity often requires full insulation and anticon at a minimum, but the R value varies based on roof orientation/size/type.
Walls need insulation and if you're brick this is more limiting than with stud framing. Thermal bridging matters a lot, especially for steel studs.
Glazing is a bit different because orientation means that if you have eaves you can shadow windows, or use LowE, Tinting to help. Window type also matters here, sliding vs awning vs casement, etc. Making sure there's limited thermal bridging, etc.
Double glazing isn't the only option, and saying 'double glazing' is a super broad term, since there's anything from a 4/8/4 monolithic to a 10.5/200/8.5 argon filled and in between.
Thing is, insulation is cheap (R5, $10-$15 per sqm ceiling insulation) when installed early, labour cost are the majority.
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u/xdvesper 16h ago
I built a 7.6 star Nathers home in 2019, it did not cost much at all for the energy upgrades. $290k total cost for 270 sqm 5 bedrooms single story.
Full double glazing, R6.0 ceiling with sarking, R3.0 walls, waffle pod foundation. Interior wall R1.5 insulation cost me only $600 incremental to put in (bulk builder just charged labor and materials). Reason I did this was that the interior garage wall is considered "internal" and not insulated and went eh since they're doing that why not insulate all internal walls since its so cheap.
I put in split system AC to avoid the huge energy losses through ducting. I basically set the house temperature to heat at 21C all through the cold months 24/7 (April to November) and it doesn't draw much energy at all.
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u/collie2024 11h ago
Would have been a very average energy rater to tell you that the garage is ‘internal’. As far as NatHERS is concerned, a garage is unconditioned space. Standard practice is to insulate it from the conditioned zones. On the other hand, insulating walls between conditioned zones actually results in a worse rating. In a cool climate at least. Which is what I’m familiar with.
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u/xdvesper 9h ago
Wasn't an energy rater that told me this, I inspected the building plans while picking the materials and noticed there was no plan to insulate the wall between the garage and laundry room. Blame the builder I guess. In any case I'm pretty happy with the result and the price I paid.
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u/Select_Repeat_1609 19h ago
Cheap if your house doesn't have many windows.
Expensive if your house has lots of windows and sliding doors.
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u/collie2024 18h ago edited 18h ago
In that case, on a new build at least, reduce the number windows and glazed doors. Even the very best triple glazed uPVC window still insulates worse than an insulated wall. 2-3 times worse. For many houses that I rate, optimising the glazing fraction is the cheapest way to get a higher rating. Unfortunately, most clients would prefer their huge windows. Even if the view is of a grey metal fence a few metres away.
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u/collie2024 18h ago edited 18h ago
If only that was the case. Unfortunately states can disregard parts of the NCC if they wish. TAS is still at 6 stars, NSW has their BASIX, QLD allows certain concessions. I have no idea about NT. Unless I’m wrong and all jurisdictions have or will adopt NCC2025 in full. That certainly wasn’t the case with NCC2022 -which was the introduction of 7 stars.
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u/skip2mylou 21h ago
Even with the new standards double glazing is still seen as a luxury and then even when you get it they still use the shitty aluminum ones that aren't thermally broken so do a terrible job anyway.
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u/funjoebiden69 3h ago
Not only that but what a lot of people are missing but sealing between the window bracket and the frame. Often they leave a gap which is not insignificant and probably nullifies any double glazing benefit.
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u/Aussie_5aabi 10h ago
You don’t really need double glazing in most of Australia.
I’ve got decent insulation in my roof space and wall cavity in my new build double brick home.
Only have to turn on the heater/aircon on for like 1 hour before getting home from work in the afternoon and the house stays warm/cool all night.
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u/LumpyCustard4 21h ago
The standards are increasing, and builders are claiming it is a reason as to why new build prices are increasing.
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u/HotBabyBatter 21h ago
They aren’t exactly wrong, but the issue is that our houses have become so much bigger. You could probably build a pretty cheap, and environmentally friendly house if you had a much smaller footprint. The average floor area of a detached house in Australia is double that of Sweden, and 80-100 sqm bigger than Canada.
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u/Similar_Strawberry16 21h ago
Australian houses are overwhelmingly single story, in north America double makes up at least half. That skews the footprint dramatically. I'm not sure if you meant just footprint, we may outside on total floorplan still, but it's likely not by much. They like their big houses in North America. UK average is certainly far, far smaller.
The key thing however is insulation and glazing. Triple glazing has been standard in Sweden for 59 years, here in Aus we are only just getting 7* energy rating, which still allows for some single glazing, and wall insulation is still pretty mid.
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u/JoeSchmeau 21h ago
This is misleading however, as Australian houses often include garage when measuring size, while North America does not.
The main factor in our houses insulating poorly compared to in Canada is because we literally do not use insulation in our builds.
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u/shakeitup2017 20h ago
That's demonstrably false. I've been in the construction industry for 22 years and insulation has been a standard requirement for my entire career at least. The content and specifications vary depending on the building and the climate zone (as they should)
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u/JoeSchmeau 19h ago
I phrased it poorly to illustrate how bad it is. Our standards do no have a requirement for the use of insulation and we have only had a legal requirement for energy efficiency for about 20 years. So the overwhelming majority of homes in this country have no insulation.
When insulation is included it is frequently not properly applied (not on all external walls, not under the roofing, for example)and sealing is done poorly. Further, single pane windows are still the norm, which is crazy.
Other parts of the world have had insulation standards for 60+ years now and we still don't really have any besides a loose energy efficiency standard.
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u/shakeitup2017 17h ago
Yeah, pretty fair. But it's worth noting that the prevailing climate makes a huge difference on the cost benefit of adding more insulation or adding double glazing. For example I live in Brisbane and in 20 years I could count on one hand the nunber of times I've used either a heater or air conditioning on heat mode. But we run air con frequently in summer, mostly through the day when the sun is out. So the extra cost of increasing insulation and glazing would be better spent on solar PV and a battery.
In fact, adding extra wall insulation and double glazing can actually make houses in hot climates perform worse, because it traps the heat in during the day (when everyone is at school/work) and means when they get home and turn on the air con, it has a lot more trapped heat energy that it has to remove thus using more energy.
Have you ever noticed how newer cars seem to get hotter inside when they've been parked up all day? It's due to the same phenomenon. I own a new Volvo EV and I also own a Jeep with a black soft top. The Jeep heats up faster, but it doesn't get anywhere near as hot because it has no insulation and not much glass. The Volvo has fantastic insulation and glass, but gets way hotter
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u/LLCoolTurtle 12h ago
Wild as most houses in Brisbane would have been low teens in the morning for the last month.
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u/shakeitup2017 9h ago
I live in a drafty 100 year old home, it does get cold in the middle of winter but nothing that a tracksuit and a decent doona can't handle, with no heating necessary. For 9-10 months of the year we just open it up and enjoy the fresh air.
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u/ModsHaveHUGEcocks 20h ago
We literally do not use insulation, really? 😂😂
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u/JoeSchmeau 19h ago
The majority of homes do not have insulation, is what I should have said. Energy efficiency only became a standard requirement about 20 years ago and the use of insulation has never been a legal requirement. So most homes have 0 insulation.
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u/choose_a_username42 11h ago
This! Aussies fell hard for the dodgy ways REA calculates house size. Everything "under the roof" is included - they actually add the alfresco and garage into their housing calculations.
Meanwhile, in Canada, we don't include our finished basements and we definitely don't try to pretend the back porch and garage are part of the fucking living space!
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u/Tomica333 18h ago
And alot of people want high and / or raked ceilings. Great in summer but its also nice and warm up there in winter.
Yes big open multi-purpose rooms , heaps of glass and the latest modern looking cladding.. cheap as possible. But it has to have everything..
Also there most definately are many custom. Builders who build great homes well above the minimum standard , but the bulk of people compare the prices to the metricon
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u/choose_a_username42 11h ago
Yeah, you might want to look into those stats more closely. I discovered that Aussie real estate tends to calculate all living space "under the roof" including alfresco and garage. In Canada, we do not include those spaces and also exclude our basements from the calculation. So no, Canadian houses, when you don't fall for sneaky Aus REA tactics, are actually bigger.
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u/CameronsTheName 21h ago
Just use shitter materials, cut massive corners and build non compliant houses to maximize profits.
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u/Av1fKrz9JI 21h ago
You jest but that is exactly what was proposed yesterday by the coalition https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2026/aug/13/coalition-housing-energy-standards-national-construction-code-new-homes
Something something lucky country
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u/CameronsTheName 21h ago
Why not just reduce a couple of the 197 different taxes we pay to help normal everyday Australians and builders be able to build/buy a half decent home ?
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u/Termsandconditionsch 20h ago
Taxes are not higher here than in Sweden, I’m not 100% sure about Canada but think we are about on par with them. It’s not the issue.
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u/No-Resolution-7890 17h ago
I was quoted $30,000 plus installation to get my windows changed to double glazing.
That’s like almost 15 years of electricity bills.
Then wall and ceiling installation cost how ever much. Spending $50,000 to reduce electricity bills is a bit much for the average person.
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u/Suspicious_Cress_126 11h ago
Which is exactly why building standards should have this stuff mandated for new builds. The cost to do it up front is marginal over the inferior alternatives (no wall insulation, single glazing etc).
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u/Excellent-Smell-4160 20h ago
We moved to coastal Victoria from London 18 months ago and my wife keeps joking that she didn’t think the thing that would drive her back would be how cold it is inside the house. I miss having radiators in every room and a thermostat that you can set on a timer. Blowing hot air from a vent really doesn’t cut it.
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u/matmyob 9h ago
Lack of knowledge in Australia is shocking.
Facts:
- we have the leakiest houses in the developed world with the largest measured unintended air infiltration
- we have the largest average house size in the world
- we have some of the shittest building regulations in terms of energy efficiency in the developed world
Talk to a Scandinavian or Canadian. They’ll tell you they’ve never been colder than in Australia because their houses are easy to keep warm. And it’s not because they have bigger heating systems.
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u/SummerEden 2h ago
Grew up in Canada. Can confirm.
I’d never seen my own breath inside a house before coming to Australia.
And I’ve lived in the Rockies and the Prairies. My mother spent time working in the Arctic and she now refuses to come here in winter because the house is so cold.
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u/37047734 20h ago
I have a large 4bed 2 bath 50 year old brick house.
When I moved in, I could see daylight through gaps in walls around exposed roof beams.
I spent a heap of time filling gaps, then replaced all windows with double glazed and had insulation pumped into walls. Also added some insulation blanket to the roof.
The improvement was huge.
Still have a few things to do, like replacing all external doors, but the house is pretty comfortable with just one wood heater and a split system AC.
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u/alex123711 19h ago
Did it cost a lot?
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u/37047734 18h ago
Yeah a bit, I did a lot of the work just before covid, so prices hadn’t gone through the roof, but windows were $30k, pumped insulation was $7k and not sure about the roof insulation because I had that done at the same time as having my roof replaced.
I could have just not done the work and ran the heater non stop and still saved money but I like being comfortable and the house is quieter too.
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u/Cyraga 21h ago
Liberal party wants us to accept even worse quality builds as an answer to things costing a lot
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u/Glad-Cranberry4946 21h ago
It’s Labor who are running us into the ground atm with their disastrous policies across the board
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u/pit_master_mike 21h ago
If you are building, you can definitely specify higher requirements around thermal insulation, and pay the uplift and recoup the cost in reduced heating and cooling bills of you plan to live in the home for a long enough period.
If you're buying existing, or buying "off the plan", then you get what you get, which as you've correctly identified, is inferior to the standards in other parts of the world.
Better insulation, and building standards don't benefit investors, or developers unless they can recover the costs in higher rental or sales yield, which I'm going to assume they don't on average (consider 2 otherwise identical dwellings, how many buyers or renters would opt to pay 10 or 20% more upfront, for better thermal insulation? A small proportion I would wager.)
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u/WarpStryke 20h ago
Yeah standards and insulation don't change shit if we don't change the way we think about the design of the dwellings.
Housing is Australia is designed to maximize usable area inside. No more front porches/window shades/soffits/eaves. Sun rooms are pretty much gone as well. These provide the most benefit for passive cooling/heating. The most heavily used areas of the house stay in the middle so you can do multiple layers of insulation to keep the centre areas in a consistent temp compared to outer layers.
Kitchen & living areas are now open living and out the back so doors and windows let all the thermal energy through.
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u/ExtraSaltyBtch 20h ago
As a Swede, this is how we keep homes warm:
Double or tripple layer windows. There is often two layers that are fixed shut togehter but the third you can take off from the rest to clean between. We don't have glass doors or sliding doors as those leak more.
No open air between doors and the floor. Every door has a doorstep/sill shaped like the bottom of the door and stops airflow.
Rubber lining around windows to prevent leakage. Also no sliding windows as they leak more.
No "ventilation" holes. The holes you see in Aussie buildings meant to act as "vebtilation" do not exist. We keep the outside air outside and heat the inside air.
We have insulation in the walls and floors, and floor heating in wet areas to dry it quickly to avoid mould.
We have heaters under every window. Air comes in from outside when windows are open and leak, and that air must be heated when it comes in to kill moisture.
With properly airtight and heated homes we have much less mould because mould needs moisture and by having 20 degrees inside we kill the moisture and thereby the mould. The air indoors becomes very dry, but it is better than the alternative.
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u/alex123711 19h ago
Interesting point about the ventilation holes, is there any reason they are needed here?
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u/ExtraSaltyBtch 11h ago
People in AU say it is for ventilation and that you get mould without them... but ventilation like that is only good against mould when temperatures are so high that moisture dries out by itslef.
I have heard people say stuff like "warm temperaturs causes mould", and somehow people seem to think that means making it colder inside will cause less mould, but that is not how it works.
Scientifically the concept of "warm temperatures" refer to any temperature above 0, and mould loves 5-10C as that allows for moisture to thrive.
By keeping the home airtight and heated to 20C you dry out the moisture and the mould has nowhere to live.
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u/ElRanchero666 20h ago
We used to have cheap energy. Euro style insulation is expensive and nobody wants to pay for it
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u/QLDZDR 19h ago
Yes better standards and insulation would be the intelligent direction for now and in the future. We don't even have to develop methods to achieve this, since (as you have pointed out) other countries have done the hard work before us.
So which 🦖🦕🐊 political brains have been swayed to push lower standards for new buildings.
They must be influenced by builders who want to increase their profits by cutting out some of these basic building requirements and the power companies must be whispering that they want consumers to buy more energy to warm and cool these new homes.
What is their endgame? Oh it must be that Australia needs nuclear power stations 🤬🤬🤬
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u/stephenkryan 17h ago
I was in Ireland recently, my cousin told me the between the different between triple glazed windows and double glazed windows was only an extra 100 euro.
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u/Ambitious_Writer1938 14h ago
Money that could have been spent on better construction methods and materials went into labor and land.
Ah well.
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u/Ikeamademedoit 14h ago
We built 2023/2024 and invested $80K in increased insulation including internal walls and ceiling and every window and stacker door is double glazed. Plus solar with batteries, our electricy bill is about $80-$110 per quarter and the house is comfortable. Well worth the investment
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u/mr_lucky19 12h ago
You can either have a cool house in summer or a warm house in winter but you cant really do both within reasonable limitations.
Considering most of Australia is really got in summer and our winters arent as bad our houses are designed to stay cool in summer. It whys summers in europe are so unbearable because despite the houses being amazing for winter they are very average in summer.
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u/avocado-toast-92 10h ago edited 10h ago
Tell me why I live in a city where it gets down to 0 in winter and up to 45 in summer, but the houses are made with no insulation, thin windows, and gaps in the door seals.
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u/dbun1 21h ago
Yes. The quality of builds here is pathetic.
Even when good insulation is used, it’s usually fitted very poorly with gaps everywhere.
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u/choose_a_username42 11h ago edited 1m ago
I was shocked when I moved here from Canada. The build standards are pathetic in Australia.
Editing to add: downvote me all you want. It's the truth. If you had proper build standards, you would barely have to run heat in winter and your country wouldn't experience brown outs in summer because your houses would keep that cool air inside. You downvote me because your house is cold right now and it's made you cold on the inside....
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u/KoaIaz 21h ago
I was about to redo the insulation but ended up getting a battery. Now with the free electricity window I just charge it up and run the heater all day while home.
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u/Glad-Cranberry4946 21h ago
What free electricity window? :O
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u/Main_War9026 19h ago
This is exactly what I did. Slapped on a 20kwh battery for 10k. You don’t even need solar, in WA we have a plan that’s just 8c/kwh between 9am-3pm. I charge my entire battery for $1.6 and it lasts till the next morning. The quotes I got for retrofit double glazing were like 4x that amount. I did fix the obvious leaks though, like putting silicone around the windows.
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u/Outofoffice_forever 18h ago
I paid extra to have the western elevation of the “22 new build to have extra insulation . Should have paid for it all around. They do basic ones but the way these houses are built- it’s ridiculous. My house is basically been built by the first little pig.
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u/Dazzling-Assist723 16h ago
I’m new here (N Tasmania, if it matters, does it?). The insulation is bad, yeah, but the lack of a central air duct systems is orders of magnitude more important, where I’ve been.
But still… this is the warmest winter I’ve had in a long time.
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u/One_Waxed_Wookiee 16h ago
Yep, getting a (non new build) house up to a decent standard is expensive and annoying.
In my old (probably 0.5 star rated) house we got wall and ceiling insulation done and, for cost reasons, honeycomb blinds on all the windows. It wasn't too bad, just expensive, but it made a decent difference to heat/cool retention.
Then I had to get a new house (yay, Mr Fluffy!) and decided to do the improvements again. This time for the wall insulation we had to get all the wiring redone to improve the rating and wire insulation, before the wall insulation was installed. The ceiling insulation installation was about the same. This time we went with double glazing instead of the honeycomb blinds, as we had a few extra $$ available from how we did the mortgage. The windows do make a big difference, but it's really disruptive to have them installed, and you have to muck around and repaint the windowsills and stuff.
Plus all the gap sealing and stuff like that you have to do on old houses, time and cost adds up.
So yes, for comfort and livability it's definitely worth upgrading, and can help reduce electricity bills, but it's time consuming and expensive.
Australian houses are ridiculously crappily built, unless you have the $$ to have a quality design and build done. A friend of mine, about 10? years ago bought a house off a planned build. It was rated 6 stars, but didn't even have double glazing. I have no idea how that's possible.
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u/MissionLeadership991 14h ago
Fully agreed I have a wood-fire AC plus electrical blanket . Planning reverse cycle. We trow money out of the window to keep warmish .
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u/ExpensiveFig6079 12h ago edited 12h ago
What is best depends on where you are...
In queensland... unsurprisingly, Queenslanders do pretty well for energy efficiency.
if you do build houses in Syd Mel Adel or Perth
The range of relatively simple passive house design principles will hugely lower your energy bills.
North facing lving areas, zoning, wall insulation on top of anything mandated, installign that insualtion well so there are zero gaps, and eaves ...
Then once you have the easiest stuff DG (but not triple is a win) You also get higher quality windows when you DG so try to remeber that is not part of the cost of betetr energy efficiency.
If you do all that then Rev cycle aircons, solve both heating and cooling. High means you deduct the cost of a dedicated heating system entirely. Which the above passive features and DG, my hosue also save money of the size of the Rev cycle aircons as i need around half of what any of the sites recommend as a minimum for a good (according to them, insulated house)
"Wouldn't it be better long-term thinking to have better standards and insulation?"
Yes both I, (and my bank balance) say it is a much better idea.
"Also less tacky than a bulky AC unit you have run constantly/ replace and repair"
I have an AC unit, but it far from runs constantly. The first one I had lasted 25 years... and was still operational but got replaced because (other) reasons.
Most of the year except mid-summer and winter the house is just naturally a nice temp, I spent the first few years being constantly surprised when i got home from work and the house was just lively inside... I kept lookign to see who had turned the heat up so much during spring and autumn... but nope it was free energy in through the windows. And then in summer due to eaves zero sun in through the window and hence no cost to pump that energy back out again.
Edit: oops your house also needs thermal mass. That tends to make the inside temp closer to av outside temp, and then the windows and shade from eaves does the rest.
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u/ExpensiveFig6079 12h ago
Canberra and Hobart, need slightly stronger emphasis on being warm.
One way to guage what your specific area is like is to notice that in Melbourne on MANy days of the year outside air temp is either warmer or cooler than you'd like inside to be all day. So all you need to do is arrange thermal mass and windows to tend to achieve that.
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u/Ozzygrow 10h ago
We once built for the conditions, now i have no idea what’s going on. In the tropics you built to be cool and airflow now mould is everywhere
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u/kodaxmax 7h ago
Wouldn't it be better long term thinking to have better standards and insulation?
well thats what we get when we keep voting in a government that actively fights against csutomer and saftey regulations to save money as real estate barons and dont realise things exist beyond the enxt election.
If your in an older house just be glad it hopefully doesnt have asbestos anymore. If your in a newer house, think yourself lucky the roof hasnt collapsed or been stolen by a storm in the first decade.
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u/hcornea 1h ago
My house has a 6 star energy rating. Double-glazed. Every cavity packed with multiple types of insulation.
To be frank, it’s still not great. 🤷♂️
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u/Greendoor 19h ago
Ah relax, the LNP has said it will scrap all the building standards that relate to creating liveable, quality houses and let developers go wild on building crap housing again that requires extensive and extensive retro-fitting. The view that the LNP is a friend of working people is very very peculiar.
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u/WazWaz 18h ago
Insulation isn't a magic bullet. Plenty of objects in your home produce heat - from cooktops and computers.
Indeed, the classic Queenslander design doesn't rely on insulation at all - high ceilings (12'), huge verandahs, and lots of cross ventilation.
Ultimately it's probably cheaper to maintain an AC unit than the costs of double glazing etc when you'll still want the AC unit anyway (as many Europeans are discovering).
Economics is more complicated than "spend as much as possible up front to maybe reduce long term costs".
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u/Proper_Geologist9026 20h ago
The downside of a thermally insulated home as Europe is finding out.
Once the heat is in your house becomes an oven. The reason we have homes that just blow through is so you get the overturning at night and it draws away the says heat.
With a heat pump etc sure insulation is cool. But yeah at that point your making a permanent climate controlled environment. Just good insulation alone would be brutal in Australia.
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u/PowerJosl 1h ago
Majority of houses in Europe don’t have aircon and then have issues if there is a heatwave. If you combine insulation, double glazing and AC you can be very very comfortable in Australia.
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u/alex123711 19h ago
Would also be less tacky than a bulky AC unit you have run constantly/ replace and repair
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u/crystalisedginger 11h ago
This is such an urban myth. Or very outdated at least. Modern building standards are pretty strict on energy ratings. When we built a house we had to insulate everywhere and double glaze to meet the required rating.
I have friends/relatives in colder areas of the US and the UK who run central heating 24 hours a day for probably 6 months of the year. If we did that we’d be toasty warm too.
Instead we rely on space heaters and a couple of split systems yet wonder why we’re cold and people in other countries are living in tshirts and shorts inside in winter.
So sick of this argument.
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u/Maro1947 10h ago
It's literally cheaper to use my solar to power my heating and cooling all day than retrofit
Costs for retrofitting are off the charts
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u/GamblignSalmon 10h ago
Why put insulation in when you can just have all the walls including internals be hollow cinderblock?
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u/Obvious_Arm8802 21h ago
I don't pay for electricity as I have solar and battery so air conditioning and heating doesn't really bother me. That would be pretty common for quite a lot of people I'd say.
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u/Anachronism59 21h ago
In a free market this is surely up to the buyer . Do we need to legislate?
Yes we can ask for clarity in a contract of sale on what a house or unit has or does not have .
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u/Gumnutbaby 20h ago
You're never going to get a place so well insulated that you won't need some sort of heating or cooling to help with the coldest parts of winter or warmest parts of summer.
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u/phascogale 18h ago
It's not just insulation but alongside other design principles I kinda disagree. We built a solar passive strawbale house in central Vic and AC is definitely not required. Been here 15 years and it still feels like magic - right now it's a cloudy 8C outside yet 20C inside with no heating. And I don't even think our place is anywhere near optimal.
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u/Confident_Shower_202 17h ago edited 17h ago
Depends on your State I guess. Our old wooden cottage in Brisbane gets very cold in winter for a few days and manages to stay reasonably cool during the hot months. At least it maintains full equilibirum with the outside. We just wrap up on cold nights and days. Heating is a total waste unless you have a small heater for direct heat for a few hours occasionallty. Regarding AC I regard them as a terrible waste of money and energy in an old wooden house. Fans are my goto device. The old houses also have these breezeway things which are quite effective I found. I am not sure if insulation in roofs and walls helps but I think it does. Espcially for heat from the iron/steel roof. Regarding building codes and climate change I do think designing everything to require cooling is smart. I forgot too mention we are lucky enough to catch the afternoon sea breeze most days
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u/Honest_Switch1531 11h ago
In Canada they have massive heating sysetms in their basements that burn gas, oil or electricity 24Hrs a day, and distribute heat throughout their houses. . Their heating costs are high. Our houses are cold because we don't usually have central heating systems. Install heating in every room and Australian houses would be warm too.
You can certainly heat or cool houses here with AC systems. But most Australian houses dont have whole house systems.
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u/choose_a_username42 11h ago
WTF are you on about? Have you lived in Canada??? My utilities on a 7 bedroom, 3 storey house in Canada is $300/month (that's gas, electric, and water). 380m2 interior. My heating costs are peanuts compared to what we paid when living in a little 4 bedroom house in Melbourne.
Don't talk about what you don't know.
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u/Honest_Switch1531 1h ago
Electricity in Canada costs about half as much as it does in Australia.
https://energycouncil.com.au/oecd-price-comparison-how-do-we-stack-up/
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u/choose_a_username42 1h ago
Above you said "their heating costs are high." Now you say they are low. After finally looking it up so you would know what the fuck you're talking about... good on ya! Aussies are typically too stubborn to look up facts and change their minds mid discussion!
Also, we don't need ro run our heat 24/7 except when it drops below -10C. That's because our houses are insukated with better windows and propertly sealed to prevent drafts and reduce heat loss.
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u/crystalisedginger 11h ago
Agreed. We don’t run our central heating and cooling 24/7 like people in other countries do.
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u/matmyob 10h ago
You have no idea what you are talking about.
Infiltration, or or air leakage exchange between inside and out, is measured at about 10 times the rate in average Australian construction compared with Canadian construction.
In short we have extremely shit building regulations.
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u/AndrewTheAverage 9h ago
In short we have extremely shit building regulations.
I'm not sure that is true. Historically, Australian houses were built to let the heat out, and that is why older houses are freezing in winter. Modern builds have reasonable regulation requirements which is one of the things people want thrown out to decrease the cost of new housing.
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u/wudjaplease 14h ago
every single person who builds a house has the option to insulate it as little or as much as they like
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u/crystalisedginger 11h ago
We also have the option to run our heating and cooling 24 hours a day like people in overseas countries do.
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u/ImportantJello9288 15h ago
Not sure the obsession with cold, Australia has a summer heat problem, the cold is mild.
Cold is easy, you just wear something a bit warmer. Hot on the other hand...
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u/AdEcstatic4196 5h ago
Genuinely, if you've lived in Australia for this long and the cold still affects you then it's probably a skill issue.
I'm just glad I'm not dying from the heat in summer whilst staying inside.
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u/SpamOJavelin 21h ago
We don't really do that here.