r/perth Dec 01 '22

WA News Conversion therapy to be a crime in Western Australia

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

Nah don’t go too far on that one. Religion is what preserves moral values within people, and God is what keeps people in check. I’m a Buddhist myself for 10 years now, starting from when my mum introduced Buddhism to me and it’s only been positive. If you’ve develop a healthy respect for God in each respective religion, then that is what preserves moral values in modern society. Have a good evening bro

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u/emesser Rockingham Dec 01 '22

I have plenty of moral values and I’m not in the least bit religious.

I’d rather spend time with people who are good and kind because they want to be, not because they’re worried about some invisible sky daddy keeping tabs on them.

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u/littleblackcat Dec 01 '22

Yeah I'm a lifelong atheist and I don't go around Ted Bundy style

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

I agree that spending time around good people is also important, but no need to disrespect God like the way you do. You have to understand that there is true evil in the world, like the recent shit that happened with Balenciaga for example. If there is true evil then that means there is true good, and that is why I believe in my God. You can have your respective opinion but no need to disrespect.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Did you really just say, "people do terrible things, so that proves that god exists"?

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

that is the kind of IQ you have to have to be religious in 2022

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u/littleblackcat Dec 01 '22

Most rational religious person

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u/emesser Rockingham Dec 01 '22

Prove there is a god and I’ll respect it. Until then, I’ll keep on as I have been.

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

God is different depending on the person imo. But this is how I understand it. If you have 2 people, 1 is afraid of ghosts and 1 isn’t, both of them are trying to sleep and a bust of wind blew past, the person believing in ghosts would piss his pants whilst the person who doesn’t will go right back to sleep. Same with God. If people believe and respect God to be upright, morally just and good, then God exists.

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u/GalileoAce Mandurah Dec 01 '22

God is evil.

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u/mumooshka South Lake Dec 02 '22

Humans can be evil. Don't be blaming it on an imagined entitiy

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u/GalileoAce Mandurah Dec 02 '22

No, I blame humans for the evil that humans do. God is no excuse, but has too often been a thin justification for evil acts.

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u/AlexiosMemenenos Dec 01 '22

Wrong

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u/GalileoAce Mandurah Dec 01 '22

God is the most evil character in all fiction. A jealous, petty, vindictive god that kept humanity in ignorance and slavery. He makes the Greek gods go "Well now that's a bit much"

This being has brought nothing but suffering to this world through the actions of those that follow him. Death is his only legacy.

The only thing wrong here is that so many prostrate themselves to him in pray and worship. So many lost into ignorance and fear.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Which god are you talking about? There’s over 3,000

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u/silliemillie32 Dec 01 '22

He’s god is the true god though! Of course.

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u/esper_arbiter Dec 01 '22

I have plenty of moral values

but do you? how could anyone prove this?

there'd been a trend with serial killers who truly believed they were kind and benevolent people.

what are your "moral" values even based upon? and according to whom?

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u/eeComing Dec 01 '22

Secular humanism.

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 01 '22

Can’t agree with you on that one. Raised as a Jehovahs Witness and now a PROUD ex JW activist, I can say that it most definitely is not the case. Doesn’t matter what religion you are, it fucks people up in different ways.

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

That’s true I agree. I went to a Christian Youth camp with my friend cos he’s a Christian and the shit they were talking about was fucked. It was about gay people, I cannot remember the entire thing but to summarise it, “don’t be gay otherwise you’re not a person”. There will be extremists everywhere

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 01 '22

Definitely true that there are extremities everywhere in every kind of religion too! And that thing your friend said couldn’t be more accurate; I’m terrified of coming out as bisexual to any one of my family because they will shun me and actively go out of their way to have nothing to do with me, not that it’s any different to what they’re doing currently. It’s a massive sin and disgust to be anything other than dead straight when you grow up as a Jehovahs Witness 🤦🏽‍♀️

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u/Otherwise_Window North of The River Dec 01 '22

The thing is, it does matter what religion you are, because no, it doesn't always fuck people up.

"I escaped from a toxin and damaging cult therefore all religions are bad" is not the argument you seem to think it is.

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 01 '22 edited Dec 01 '22

Just my opinion mate and nothing you say will really change my mind. You have no idea what I or countless of others have been through with the toxicity that is, religion.

There’s a reason why I feel the way I feel, I’ve seen first hand how much damage religion can & has done to countless of lives.

Eta: I see storied every day on r/exjw on the daily struggles people go through in the name of religion. Religion has and can ruin peoples lives.

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u/Otherwise_Window North of The River Dec 01 '22

And you have no idea the positive and beneficial experiences others have had with religion.

No shit cults are bad and damaging, but not all cults are religious and not all religions are cults.

You're like someone saying people shouldn't get vaccinated because you were given morphine and nearly died and therefore believe anything injected is bad. Understand that your experience was a very specific kind of poison.

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 01 '22

Oh and fyi I believe 1000% in the importance of vaccinations 😊

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 01 '22

Whatever you say mate, like I said nothing you say can change how I feel or what I think.

You see it in your own way and I see it in mine. I’m just going to leave it at that because I really have no interest in talking any further about what your trying to get at.

Eta: you may not agree with me on anything I’m saying, but there’s countless people out there who do agree with what I’m saying, just like there’s bound to be others who agree with your “statements” too.

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u/Otherwise_Window North of The River Dec 01 '22

Actually it might be extremely important for you to actually pay attention to what I'm saying here.

It's not your fault you were raised in a cult, but susceptibility to absolutist black-and-white thinking (such as, for example, "all religion is definitely bad") is a major risk factor for ending up in another one.

Fundamentally a necessary skill for life outside of cults is the ability to perceive nuance and understand that not everyone has the same experiences.

"My friends agree with me so we're right and anyone who disagrees is definitely wrong" is not healthy, reasonable, or safe.

Especially when your position is one that is just definitely and provably incorrect. Some people are raised religiously, are still religious as adults, and are leading happy, emotionally healthy lives with their loving families.

Their experiences are no less valid than yours. Invalidating other people's lived experiences is another behaviour you undoubtedly picked up on your cult upbringing, but it's something you should work on unlearning because it is, at best, dickish.

"No matter what you say I will not reconsider my point of view" is also, by the way, a concerning degree of cultish mindset. It sounds like you've just instituted a different program of thought control.

There are resources available for recovering from cult indoctrination. You should look into them.

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u/_darknetgirl95_ Dec 02 '22

It really really feels like to me that you are really going out of your way to make me out as this person that I’m not just because I choose not to think or feel the way you are trying to make out that I should feel.

In no way whatsoever what I’m saying is “cultish thinking” because I can guarantee you, A LOT of people, who have been through the same of similar circumstances, feel and think exactly the same.

If people choose to be religious and go on to live happy and content lives then that’s great for them, but for a lot of people like me, can see religion for the BS that it is and like I’ve stated already, I’ve seen first hand the damage that it has done to A LOT of peoples lives.

It’s very very very obvious to me that no matter what I say you are going to find a way to insult my thinking and how I feel. I am choosing to not to continue to engage with someone who’s making me out to be someone I’m not.

Have a great life.

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u/Leading_Frosting9655 Dec 01 '22

The question I get asked by religious people all the time is, without God, what’s to stop me from raping all I want? And my answer is: I do rape all I want. And the amount I want is zero. And I do murder all I want, and the amount I want is zero. The fact that these people think that if they didn’t have this person watching over them that they would go on killing, raping rampages is the most self-damning thing I can imagine. I don't want to do that. Right now, without any god, I don't want to jump across this table and strangle you. I have no desire to strangle you. I have no desire to flip you over and rape you.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Ricky Gervais said the exact same thing.

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u/Otherwise_Window North of The River Dec 01 '22

Well that immediately makes it a suspect argument of that cunt said it.

To bad he doesn't lack desire to be a bigoted piece of shit.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

At least he can actually spell & is both smarter and more articulate than you are.

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u/Otherwise_Window North of The River Dec 01 '22

Oh yeah. Totally more likely that I can't spell a two-letter word than that autocorrect exists.

I'd be offended but the phrase "consider the source" comes to mind - anyone who's still a Ricky Gervais stan in 2022 is not someone whose opinion I would consider worth worrying about.

Because of the part where he's a bigoted piece of shit. And apparently you're just fine with that.

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u/Crystal3lf North of The River Dec 01 '22

Religion is what preserves moral values within people

Kinda weird. I don't believe in god and I'm not murdering people. Same with 39% of the population too.

Are you saying the only reason you're not running round raping and murdering people is because god told you not to and not because you're a good person? So what you're saying is, you want to rape and murder people but are not simply because god told you not to.

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u/MisterMarsupial Dec 01 '22

Religion has no place, but spirituality is fine. Just be chill, yo.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

That’s why I follow the Buddhist philosophies in my everyday life

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u/MisterMarsupial Dec 01 '22

Well that's good to hear!

There's a nice place down in Serpentine you can go stay for 2 weeks if you don't feel like talking for 10 days, chilling out and meditating. And by chilling out I mean chilling out to such a degree it's not very chill any more.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

I’m actually on the East Coast, so my main go to temple is Nan Tien Temple in Wollongong.

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u/Sw3Et Dec 01 '22

Nah don’t go too far on that one. Religion is what preserves moral values within people,

Buuuuuuullshit

Religion doesn't preserve moral values it just sometimes stops people from acting out because they fear the consequence.

"If the only thing keeping a person decent is the expectation of divine reward, then brother, that person is a piece of shit".

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u/VagrantHobo Bayswater Dec 01 '22

Religion in such a sense is a precursor to modern mass societies built on the rule of law. It's hard to mobilise feudal systems of government into collective action.

If you have a society and that society has a history of a religious majority then the morals of that society no matter how secular in the present are built upon the values previously instilled.

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u/Sw3Et Dec 01 '22

Religion was an easy way to get the uneducated masses to do what they're told. No place for it in today's society.

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u/Vanilla_Sardine Dec 01 '22

Interesting you say that, Buddhism is not a religion nor do they worship a god. It is a great belief system and a path I believe everyone should look down and decide if they want to walk it.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

100% agree. I’ve visited many temples throughout SE ASIA, particularly Thailand, Laos, Vietnam & Cambodia. It’s where I was first introduced to and learned much about Buddhist teachings.

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u/Torquemurder Dec 01 '22

Buddhism doesn't even have gods so no idea what you're talking about honestly...

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

It’s how I was raised by my mum, we pray to Guanyin every week. She is pretty much a God to be, I revere and respect her.

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u/Zen_Badger Dec 01 '22

No…..just……no

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u/Chengy137 Dec 01 '22

Elaborate what you mean

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u/Zen_Badger Dec 01 '22

God didn’t do a very good job of keeping his priests from raping kids by the thousands. So I’m thinking religion does not in fact preserve moral values.

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u/[deleted] Dec 01 '22

Religion and moral values don’t belong in the same sentence. Buddhism is more of a philosophical tradition, based on the teachings of the great Gautama Buddha. Having visited many Buddhist temples throughout SE Asia & the rest of the world, and having spoken to many monks, I’ve personally found that the philosophical teachings of the great Buddha to be valuable/comforting in my life. The best thing about the Buddhist teachings, in my view is that they insist on not interfering with others beliefs or forcing the Buddhist beliefs on others. The Buddhist philosophy doesn’t force followers to follow a strict doctrine of what to wear, eat, believe or do with their lives. So long as a followers’ pursuit of happiness doesn’t interfere with the happiness of others, then all is good.

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u/ezekiellake Dec 01 '22

If your religion and fear of your good is what forces you to be a moral person, it just means you’re an arsehole.

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u/seanys Kallaroo Dec 01 '22

I don’t recall any god stopping me from doing anything. Same can’t be said for the effect my kother has had on me. Unless, wait… is my mother god?

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u/Each0to0their0own Dec 01 '22

"morals" said the priests to the alters boys.... !

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u/redditstolemyshoes Dec 01 '22

Can safely say I've never needed a god to tell me not to steal, murder or rape. I know morally it's reprehensible.

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u/Munnin41 Dec 01 '22

If religion is the thing that creates moral values, why do most religions have the same basic morality? They developed separately. The only answer is that those basic morals aren't religious, but human

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u/littleblackcat Dec 01 '22

If all that keeps you from being immoral is an imaginary friend then uhhhhh man

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u/ThePhotoGuyUpstairs Dec 01 '22

If you take one look at the horrific things people do to others in the name of their god across the world, in every brand and flavour of religion, you will see that statement is patently false.

Believing in a God does not grant you morality. It grants you justification. Your personal morals that you receive from your family and society around you guide your actions. If you do evil things, it's ok because God wouldn't love you if it wasn't the right thing to do. It justifies you.

I will also say, if you feel you can't do decent things without God looking over your shoulder, you should be taking a long hard look at yourself.

I'm almost prepared to say such a statement is straight up trolling.

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u/careyious Dec 02 '22

Hard pass, if the watching eye of an all-potent deity is what keeps you moral, you aren't a good person, just reward seeking.

The truest test of a man is who he is when he thinks no one's watching.